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Pilot jailed (alcoholism & pilots)

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Pilot jailed (alcoholism & pilots)

Old 9th Dec 2006, 20:10
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimS
Chuck - my absolute respect and good wishes for a long and happy retirement.


God forbid if he had got as far as the flightdeck and airborne and the worst happened. 250+ people would not be having a long and happy retirement thats for sure!
Not to mention the hundreds of families that would have been destroyed as a result.
I do not know the guy in question and do not argue he may be a lovely chap, but there is a huge responsibility with other peoples lives in question here. He could have called in sick and not turned up for his duty.
All you have to do is think if it was your Son, Daughter, Wife, Husband, Dad, Mother, Brother, Sister or Friend on board a flight that ended in tragedy due to a Pilot being intoxicated.
I expect now he is sober and the reality hits home, he would probably agree.
Very sad.
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 20:28
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Dan,

I am confused ! Is the 'he' you are referring to the unknown but reported 'JD' at Emirates or Chuck (who it is quite possible has never flown 'under the influence' but was man enough to not only recognise his problem, get treatment and be cured, but then share his experience with us) who you 'quote' from my message of genuine congratulations ?
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 20:31
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what happened was most out of character
Not intending to delay the hanging.... of course.... but one feels compelled to point out that people who normally do not drink much, if at all, are often the ones most likely to be caught in a situation of inappropriate public intoxication.

Serious drinkers, who imbibe regularly for taste or nourishment, accumulate enzymes and other metabolic adaptations in their bodies which allow them to more quickly process and discharge alcohol. They also 'learn the ropes' of managing and avoiding intoxication by balancing food and drink, consuming vitamins, drinking water, etc.

By contrast, your maiden aunt Minnie, slim as a rail and dry as a wadi, will tend to very quickly go out of control. She well may turn into a naive but willing sponge if someone triggers the process by pouring the first few Harvey Wallbangers in her cup instead of tea. Add an innocuous antihistamine or two, and she will be even more susceptible.

So..... circumstances alter cases. Surely the pilot involved should be given some benefit of doubt until full facts are known.
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 20:36
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TimS,
The unknown but reported 'JD' at Emirates, was who I was referring to.
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 20:50
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Mouth opening...

I'm not a pilot - as my handle suggests - but I do have a lot of aviation related responsibilities and I think that you guys supporting this 'errant' pilot is really Laudable - But...

This is just the latest of a continuing series of "misdemeanors" that are given a high profile, but not a high enough profile.

I believe the lack of response, to this news breaking, displays some level of acceptance of this type of incident by users of this site, as "just another one".

I believe one of your alcoholic associates is going to cause a Smoking Hole at some time, and the post-mortem evidence will be too disparate to examine for the true cause, if it hasn't already happened.

I believe that this case could be given a profile high enough to display to all pilots the effects of not conducting proper personal controls at all times, as befits personel given such huge responsibilities.

From what I read - I believe he, and his family, have lost quite a lot already, Job, Home in Dubai, etc. Making him serve all his small sentence won't hurt him much more. But, it will make a large impact on the pilot community if all drunk pilots are seen to be punished as befits the offence.

Mouth closed, Eyes (and ears) opening.....
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 21:01
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Rigga, I think that you and a couple of other posters are misinterpreting the postings of the majority.....

No-one on here (with the possible of exception of the one poster who knows him personally) is supporting JD, certainly including myself.
He made a huge error of judgement, he probably has a problem, he is to be punished (jail etc) and will presumably lose his job etc - fine, I have absolutely no problem with that.

All that I, and a number of other contributors if I may presume to speak on their behalf, argue is that the original statement "and never, ever flys [sic]again" is not reasonable - alcoholism is a disease and can be cured (not always by any means, as I well know), and if it is cured then an additional punishment of a life ban is neither fair nor sensible.

This is my last post on the subject, as I am becoming both repetitive and slightly wound up on the subject!
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 21:11
  #27 (permalink)  
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From what I read - I believe he, and his family, have lost quite a lot already, Job, Home in Dubai, etc. Making him serve all his small sentence won't hurt him much more. But, it will make a large impact on the pilot community if all drunk pilots are seen to be punished as befits the offence.
His sentence is quite severe- far more severe than many perpetrators of violent crime. He has presumably been punished 'as befits the offence'. The problem here is people wishing on him punishment beyond his imprisonment, and for the rest of his life! If violent criminals and murderers come out of prison 'having served their time and discharged their debt to society' (sometimes after extremely short sentences even for murder), one wonders how fair it is that it is wished upon this person punishment for life for a crime where there are no wounded victims and nobody has been hurt or disadvantaged. It was an attempted crime as I am quite sure the other pilot would not have allowed proceedings to continue.

Don't some of you have the righteousness of God all of a sudden!
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 21:11
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I really really hope, that one day, one or two of these so called 'perfect' gents gets a lesson of there own.

It is all to easy, to sit back, and say ' well I hope he stays in prison for a long time cause he/she is such a bad guy/girl cause he/she has made a mistake'

So far in my career, I have met pretty much all types of pilot, from Airline drivers, figher pilots to gliding intructors/Bush Pilots, and in every field in one way or another, that are enought different individuals to see what actually goes on in the real world.

Niknak etc, I hope I never ever have to meet you or have to deal with you, and some of you really sound like the Devil Incarnate.

There are a small number of gents/ladies on this site that seem to love to watch others in the same profession having a pretty rough time.

By the way, Niknak, by the looks of it you are in Air Traffic!!.......... is there nothing that you have better to do in your spare time then slating pilots over the internet as a hobby, try 'chess, knitting, cooking, bird watching etc' but please just dont grace us with your high and mighty comments.

Yours with the best regards

JL
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 21:13
  #29 (permalink)  
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nik nak and sask

Congratulations. Your posts fit in well with the pomposity of this site and many who frequent it.
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 21:21
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Well, there are merits to both sides of this argument, but I still wish this JD all the best for his recovery and return to flying. We can all make mistakes, some with more serious consequences than others, but even if this particular individual hadnt been identified as under the influence at that time, it is highly unlikely to have resulted in any accident or incident. This secenario has played out thousands of times in aviation (and elsewhere) without serious consequence. I am not condoning it, just higlighting the fact that ONE 'drunk' pilot wont kill anyone.

What will kill lots of people soon, is fatigue. Because it cant be tested, or detetced, and two fatigued pilots will fly together, without each realising the other's similar state. Who would hazard a guess at how many instances occur daily, of an aircraft flying with both pilots dozing off simultaneously?

Its imminent.
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 22:20
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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On the a related thread, any news of the ez scarebus female capt from some time ago? Can't seem to find news anywhere.
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Old 9th Dec 2006, 23:53
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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privilege

Originally Posted by TimS
I have read all of both (perhaps you missed one?) of SAS's posts - indeed now for a second time at your behest SLF.
I understand (and have personal reason to do so) his anger and the harm that was done to himself/family/friends by a drunk driver.
I will still not support the premise that the individual concerned should "never, ever flys [sic] again".
If under reasonable professional measurement he is treated and cured (and one contributor who, apparently knows the individual concerned, suggests it was a 'one off aberration' along the lines of SAS's self admitted "reporting whilst not feeling 100%" rather than a deeply infiltrated problem) for a medically recognised condition it is my opinion that he should then -and only then - be able to continue to enjoy the priviliges of his licence in the same way that Chuck, a couple of colleagues who I have known and a larger number of their fellow professionals have done.
Just a question here and I might add that I am not a pilot but have a licence as well - isn't it exactly this "pivilege" of the licence that should not be taken for granted but requires the proper proffessional behavior and attitude to deserve it?
I have seen enough vicitms of drunken drivers (including children) that I can absolutely understand calls to remove those who inflicted this from their responsibility simply as they did not hold up to it (including revoking a license etc.). Please note - I am talking in general and are not making any judgment on the person in question.
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Old 10th Dec 2006, 00:09
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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And exactly why have we resorted to comparing drunken drivers with pilots who have been over the limits on a breath test???

How many people have been killed by drunken drivers?

And how many by pilots who had one too many the night before?

Come on you statisticians......?
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Old 10th Dec 2006, 00:43
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To all you defenders of the involved Capt: It shows you have a social attitude and show you hope to be treated as social once you get caught in a situation like this. Life doesn't work this way. The guy f*cked up, okay? Sad for him but thats life. You know the rules of the game and should play by them. If you your wife walks in on you cheating, do you expect a second chance? Why does everyone always need a second chance. If you activate your brain, you might be able to picture the dire consequences of your own stupidities. Most pilots are not mentally challenged so they certainly should be able to do this. If you still manage to get caught, then it means you are really, really stupid. If you were already able to cross the line knowing what the results might be, what guarantees does society have you won't do it again? I feel for the guy, but he really should have called in sick.

Originally Posted by TimS
- alcoholism is a desease
Tell that the people with cancer who always did everything they could to live a healthy life and still get sick and die. These people might claim the guy could have avoided his own disease by not lifting the glass to his mouth.
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Old 10th Dec 2006, 01:04
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RayCosmic - aviation aside, your statement regarding cancer sufferers etc etc shows your total lack of understanding of the mechanics of any form of addiction
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Old 10th Dec 2006, 01:20
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Is this the puritanical thread ? Wasn’t sure due to the number of sanctimonious posts. As for the American contingent – jeeeze. You guys have the strangest drinking habits of all…
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Old 10th Dec 2006, 04:54
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Question

What would have happened in Singapore?

How about a situation where the pilot had used some sort of mouthwash?
My general impressions of there that it is operated by a harsh, steel-fisted dictatorship where no rules are broken, due to very stern penalties for everything.

And in the other lands of the Middle East?
Would the prison sentence be longer in a country where alcohol is officially forbidden, but privately tolerated?
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Old 10th Dec 2006, 07:19
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Originally Posted by SASKATOON9999
Ive been drunk down route...Ive reported whilst not feeling 100%,

BUT - Anybody who has had to suffer the consequences of a drunk driver, as I have, will know exactly where I’m coming from.
Hypocrite??

I'm not judging JD but since you've had no qualms about doing so, yourself: It sounds like you're no better than he or the drunken driver you also refer to.

Please name the airline you currently work for so the masses can avoid placing their precious lives in your neglectful hands.
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Old 10th Dec 2006, 08:08
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Maybe "alcoholics" cannot be reformed.

Who'd want them in really important roles.

You'd never give the keys to the Oval Office to a "reformed drunk", now would you!

That would be ridiculous, putting a "reformed drunk" in charge of the goddam planet!



BTW: This talk of so & so times the legal limit ... was this from a reporter? What's the legal limit in the country in question!?
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Old 10th Dec 2006, 08:24
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This chap doesn't fit the alcoholic profile for mine. I reckon he's made a bad error of judgment for whatever reason and it has cost him his job. arcniz is spot on with his assessment of the situation. He should have the opportunity to work in the industry again and I'll bet he will learn from this regrettable experience. I just hope he hasn't access to a computer and is reading all this vitriol from his prison cell.

For goodness sake, leave the poor guy alone !
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