Ryanair/Channel 4 dispatches Programme
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I am bemused as to why it was a "complete waste of time".
I would also echo Wedge's comments. Obviously, the vast majority (for arguments sake) of the people on here are more clever than the general public and hence will be able to see, if one lets oneself, beyond the negative spin of the program. However, If you leave behind animosity towards Channel 4 and all that goes with it, there were undoubtedly serious points (though some of these may not have been as fundamental to safety as the program's aura may exude).
1) The sick on the floor. Yes, the plane wouldn't have crashed but even so, from a health perspective it was quite disgusting albeit amusing
. Ryanair had not record of sick on the floor? Interesting official response.
2) The emergency exit not appearing to be in proper working order. This would on the face of it appear to be a serious blunder. One could conclude from that part of the programme that time constraints were put way before a potential catastrophic safety flaw.
3) The sleeping crew. Not impressive to say the least. It doesn't take too much intelligence to know that cabin crew in a high-pressured situation combined with fatigue is not an optimal situation.
4) The training. The training company was just downright silly.
My conclusion of the outcome would be this: while Ryanair's reputation will probably sink further than the new-depths that it continually tests, in the end, price will win out. Ryanair will hardly be affected.
I would also echo Wedge's comments. Obviously, the vast majority (for arguments sake) of the people on here are more clever than the general public and hence will be able to see, if one lets oneself, beyond the negative spin of the program. However, If you leave behind animosity towards Channel 4 and all that goes with it, there were undoubtedly serious points (though some of these may not have been as fundamental to safety as the program's aura may exude).
1) The sick on the floor. Yes, the plane wouldn't have crashed but even so, from a health perspective it was quite disgusting albeit amusing
. Ryanair had not record of sick on the floor? Interesting official response.2) The emergency exit not appearing to be in proper working order. This would on the face of it appear to be a serious blunder. One could conclude from that part of the programme that time constraints were put way before a potential catastrophic safety flaw.
3) The sleeping crew. Not impressive to say the least. It doesn't take too much intelligence to know that cabin crew in a high-pressured situation combined with fatigue is not an optimal situation.
4) The training. The training company was just downright silly.
My conclusion of the outcome would be this: while Ryanair's reputation will probably sink further than the new-depths that it continually tests, in the end, price will win out. Ryanair will hardly be affected.
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Oh give us a break. Who cares about C4 or their reputation. We just witnessed the classic Ryanair tactic of screwing their passengers AND their staff. Any breaches we saw were due to bullying management and it was all verified by the pilots who admitted they'd fly fatigued rather than refuse to do a sector or refuse discretion.
Ryanair management will have their witch hunt against anyone they think they can get at as it trikes fear into the rest of their miserable employees. They will continue to make a profit for now because there are always more muppets that are willing to put up with sh!te as long as they can fly for little more than the cost of a local taxi ride and there are always more cannon fodder for their staff recruitment programmes whether cabin crew who are willing to pay 1,400 quid for a course and then pay for their uniforms too. Same goes for the pilots who pay to have their CV's looked at and then pay for their type ratings and are prepared to work to the legal maximum and would seriously consider flying while fatigued rather than refuse to operate for fear of being sacked.
They all deserve each other. Sad pax sitting in sick, overworked cabin crew who are stupid enough to pay for their training and uniforms to work for such a sh!te management and the pilots who we all know are regularly shafted. Who cares about C4. They have revealed in words and pictures what most of us already knew was true.
Ryanair management will have their witch hunt against anyone they think they can get at as it trikes fear into the rest of their miserable employees. They will continue to make a profit for now because there are always more muppets that are willing to put up with sh!te as long as they can fly for little more than the cost of a local taxi ride and there are always more cannon fodder for their staff recruitment programmes whether cabin crew who are willing to pay 1,400 quid for a course and then pay for their uniforms too. Same goes for the pilots who pay to have their CV's looked at and then pay for their type ratings and are prepared to work to the legal maximum and would seriously consider flying while fatigued rather than refuse to operate for fear of being sacked.
They all deserve each other. Sad pax sitting in sick, overworked cabin crew who are stupid enough to pay for their training and uniforms to work for such a sh!te management and the pilots who we all know are regularly shafted. Who cares about C4. They have revealed in words and pictures what most of us already knew was true.
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Found this on the Ryaair web site
http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news....=gen-en-130206
http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news....=gen-en-130206
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I'm gobsmacked by the "popular reaction" here, which seems to say:
"This is all very normal. Nothing to see here".
Is it? Is it really?
Halfway through the programme my own chuffing AME had something to say. Maybe he's one of those conspiracy media wasters aswell?
It's not exactly disaster territory, but the "oh no, no... very normal... fine" ****e gets my goat a bit.
"This is all very normal. Nothing to see here".
Is it? Is it really?
Halfway through the programme my own chuffing AME had something to say. Maybe he's one of those conspiracy media wasters aswell?
It's not exactly disaster territory, but the "oh no, no... very normal... fine" ****e gets my goat a bit.
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Originally Posted by paulo
I'm gobsmacked by the "popular reaction" here, which seems to say:
"This is all very normal. Nothing to see here".
Is it? Is it really?
Halfway through the programme my own chuffing AME had something to say. Maybe he's one of those conspiracy media wasters aswell?
It's not exactly disaster territory, but the "oh no, no... very normal... fine" ****e gets my goat a bit.
"This is all very normal. Nothing to see here".
Is it? Is it really?
Halfway through the programme my own chuffing AME had something to say. Maybe he's one of those conspiracy media wasters aswell?
It's not exactly disaster territory, but the "oh no, no... very normal... fine" ****e gets my goat a bit.
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Rats can't vomit?
Thought it was really a very poor soap. The dispatches web site even has an online poll. It can only be a viewer IQ test. Really some people are thick. And others are too thick to realize how thick they are.
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I'm definitely not a fan of Ryanair, and certainly not of MOL. Whilst I am a supporter of the "low cost model" I believe MOL takes it too far and cuts it too close to the bone.
However, this programme was absolute rubbish. Yes, it showed 'sloppy' behaviour and a few areas of concern, but hardly earth-shattering news. A waste of prime-time TV, and I'm sure they could have unearthed much more.
Waste of time!
However, this programme was absolute rubbish. Yes, it showed 'sloppy' behaviour and a few areas of concern, but hardly earth-shattering news. A waste of prime-time TV, and I'm sure they could have unearthed much more.
Waste of time!
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I haven't seen the program but honestly from the reports here, how many airlines could face the same investigation without similar findings. Perfection on every flight is hard to achieve. Maybe the tired cabin crew is from the management demands, then again maybe it was just that flight. If you want to find something, you can find something regardless of the company in question is what I think.
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Hmmm, it was interesting ............ the message is:
You get what you pay for.
If you pay next to nothing, then you should expect next to nothing and that is probably fair enough but some of the passengers on these flights have paid top-whack fares because they have booked at the last minute or because all the cheap seats were already sold when they booked. People automatically think that because it is Ryanair then the fares will all be cheap ..........this is so not true.
And another thing, surely the CC don't just earn that sector pay that was mentioned. The narrator said that they only earn money when they are in the air - does that mean they don't have a basic salary at all??
You get what you pay for.
If you pay next to nothing, then you should expect next to nothing and that is probably fair enough but some of the passengers on these flights have paid top-whack fares because they have booked at the last minute or because all the cheap seats were already sold when they booked. People automatically think that because it is Ryanair then the fares will all be cheap ..........this is so not true.
And another thing, surely the CC don't just earn that sector pay that was mentioned. The narrator said that they only earn money when they are in the air - does that mean they don't have a basic salary at all??
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In an attempt to try and keep this thread related to issues that affect airline pilots, I have decided that from now on, anyone who wants to become a TV critic goes and finds the appropriate website to do so. The cabin crew can debate the issues of paying for their training and the suspected quality of that training plus the security issues that are affected by what was exposed on the programme.
The flight crew can debate the points raised by the programme with the comments filmed by the pilots on those Ryanair flights.
As for anyone else who, just because they were a passenger on Ryanair once, please find your appropriate forum to air your views. In this case, the Pax & SLF forum.
Anyone else bothering to tell us how C4 and the investigative reporters should or shouldn't do their jobs as well as the hoards of apparent amateur layers telling us who should or shouldn't sue someone else because of some perceived breach of some obscure regulation or whatever, please go to Jet Blast. This forum is for "issues that affect our jobs and lives as airline pilots".
Thank you. Now carry on.
The flight crew can debate the points raised by the programme with the comments filmed by the pilots on those Ryanair flights.
As for anyone else who, just because they were a passenger on Ryanair once, please find your appropriate forum to air your views. In this case, the Pax & SLF forum.
Anyone else bothering to tell us how C4 and the investigative reporters should or shouldn't do their jobs as well as the hoards of apparent amateur layers telling us who should or shouldn't sue someone else because of some perceived breach of some obscure regulation or whatever, please go to Jet Blast. This forum is for "issues that affect our jobs and lives as airline pilots".
Thank you. Now carry on.
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Sticking my head above the parapet briefly, as a former broadcaster and news analyst, if that was sound journalism -- or indeed Journalism at all, as I understand it -- I am a pobble.
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Well if the chat on the flight deck reminded me of anything it is ....."never talk to strangers about your Mother or father in law ..... your manager/Boss .... your staff ..... your job or anything else for that matter"
If it's any consolation I rem often flying up front on Big Airways and always enjoying a glass of Champs b/4 takeoff .... on long hauls and as a Pas I hasten to add
.... on a particular flight to Miami I rem a senior Hostie insisting that no way was the bar going to be opened untill after takeoff (for Customs reasons) ..... but the doors are closed I said? .... 'no way hose' was the reply 
......
oh well, the ticket only cost me a couple of grand or so ....
On another occasion I rem sitting down to dinner in one of the lands finest eateries ..... clearly there had been an earlier accident and although cleaned up we could certainly smell a whiff (no after shave available I suppose) ..... anyway, we asked to be moved ..... totally booked out we were told
.... so what do you do? it happens in the best places ....... (although we did 'walk the walk' to another restaurant)
If it's any consolation I rem often flying up front on Big Airways and always enjoying a glass of Champs b/4 takeoff .... on long hauls and as a Pas I hasten to add
.... on a particular flight to Miami I rem a senior Hostie insisting that no way was the bar going to be opened untill after takeoff (for Customs reasons) ..... but the doors are closed I said? .... 'no way hose' was the reply ...... oh well, the ticket only cost me a couple of grand or so ....
On another occasion I rem sitting down to dinner in one of the lands finest eateries ..... clearly there had been an earlier accident and although cleaned up we could certainly smell a whiff (no after shave available I suppose) ..... anyway, we asked to be moved ..... totally booked out we were told
.... so what do you do? it happens in the best places ....... (although we did 'walk the walk' to another restaurant)
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5 weeks
How come the CC training lasts so long when they only have one type to be trained on?
When I did my Monarch CC training (many moons ago) on 3 types it lasted 6 weeks - why on earth is the FR training so long in comparison?
cheers
FF
When I did my Monarch CC training (many moons ago) on 3 types it lasted 6 weeks - why on earth is the FR training so long in comparison?
cheers
FF
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.... A big well done to C4 for showing the public what Ryanair are like. If some people still had doubts about Ryanair's pirate culture and f... you attitude, they definitely got an answer now!
To confirm what has been shown in the programme:
- RYANAIR DO NOT ASK YOU TO SHOW YOUR PASSPORT WHEN ABOUT TO BOARD, this was not false.....experience as a passenger.
- A First Officer doing the visual inspection of the aircraft and phoning at the same time....... Was he more focused on the inspection or his phone conversation? Witnessed from another aircraft.
- On board a RYR aircraft, just about to close the doors, announcement was made: passenger X, if you are on board, this is not the plane to Pescara, this is the plane to X..... SHOCKING! How can they even have a doubt about who is in the plane 2 minutes before closing the doors????!!!! Witnessed as a passenger.
- Bought a bit to eat and drink, cost 1.55 or something, the cabin crew member goes:"Sorry, I have no change, I get back to you later....." 2 minutes later, after selling a few things, she had the change. If not reminded twice at the end of the flight, she will have kept the change. 45p is not much, but it is the principle! Is it a Ryanair policy????
45p per sector, at the end of one working day for thw whole company, how much would it be, even if they try to coin one passenger per sector???? Maybe I see too much in that, but you never know, above all with people like MOL.
FNav
To confirm what has been shown in the programme:
- RYANAIR DO NOT ASK YOU TO SHOW YOUR PASSPORT WHEN ABOUT TO BOARD, this was not false.....experience as a passenger.
- A First Officer doing the visual inspection of the aircraft and phoning at the same time....... Was he more focused on the inspection or his phone conversation? Witnessed from another aircraft.
- On board a RYR aircraft, just about to close the doors, announcement was made: passenger X, if you are on board, this is not the plane to Pescara, this is the plane to X..... SHOCKING! How can they even have a doubt about who is in the plane 2 minutes before closing the doors????!!!! Witnessed as a passenger.
- Bought a bit to eat and drink, cost 1.55 or something, the cabin crew member goes:"Sorry, I have no change, I get back to you later....." 2 minutes later, after selling a few things, she had the change. If not reminded twice at the end of the flight, she will have kept the change. 45p is not much, but it is the principle! Is it a Ryanair policy????
45p per sector, at the end of one working day for thw whole company, how much would it be, even if they try to coin one passenger per sector???? Maybe I see too much in that, but you never know, above all with people like MOL.
FNav
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And how many of those types of passengers which Ryanair attract would be watching Dispatches instead of Eastenders or Corry???? I would be highly surprised if anything happens out of this. Only when a highly publicised crash with fatalities occur do I feel anything will change in Whineair!
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As for anyone else who, just because they were a passenger on Ryanair once, please find your appropriate forum to air your views.
That's right Danny - who cares what 40 million people think- eh! Sh!t-stirrers!
The passengers may be revolting but heh - shut the door, let them die of thirst, take them to Luton (it's not the end of the world, but you can see it from there!) or have them sitting in stinking vomit - who gives a sh!t.
Only a professional pilot with his head up his ar5e would think that tonight's programme doesn't affect his job or life as a professional pilot. Do none of you guys get it? The fact that it is Ryanair, BA, BMI, Flybe is irrelevant. Channel 4, The Times, News of the World or the Beano, it matters not.
Safety records are not the same as safety culture. One day somebody will be too tired and too sh!t scared of demotion to £70k per annum to do the safe thing. One day somebody will be sleeping when the cabin fills with smoke or fails to pressurise. One day somebody will be on-board who shouldn't be. One day the slide won't inflate when it is needed.
One day I'll be waving my wife and 2 young children off from the gate (damn! - not more of those passenger thingies. They delay the turnaround don't you know?).
Just so long as the pilot isn't too tired to fly (or suffered a recent bereavement), the cabin crew aren't settling down for a nap, the cabin crew aren't terrorists, mentally ill or criminals with disqualifying convictions and at least some of the safety equipment (which MOL hasn't been able to persuade Boeing/IAA not to fit - it'll happen!) is working, everything will be fine. So long as the pilot keeps the bar intact and isn't being pestered by 'the great unwashed', I'll go home safe in the knowledge that everything is OK because MOL says so.
There are two basic laws of the universe that have yet to be defied;
1. You cannot compromise on safety - your customers will not forgive you.
2. You cannot treat your customers like sh!t - your customers will not forgive you.
That's right Danny - who cares what 40 million people think- eh! Sh!t-stirrers!
The passengers may be revolting but heh - shut the door, let them die of thirst, take them to Luton (it's not the end of the world, but you can see it from there!) or have them sitting in stinking vomit - who gives a sh!t.
Only a professional pilot with his head up his ar5e would think that tonight's programme doesn't affect his job or life as a professional pilot. Do none of you guys get it? The fact that it is Ryanair, BA, BMI, Flybe is irrelevant. Channel 4, The Times, News of the World or the Beano, it matters not.
Safety records are not the same as safety culture. One day somebody will be too tired and too sh!t scared of demotion to £70k per annum to do the safe thing. One day somebody will be sleeping when the cabin fills with smoke or fails to pressurise. One day somebody will be on-board who shouldn't be. One day the slide won't inflate when it is needed.
One day I'll be waving my wife and 2 young children off from the gate (damn! - not more of those passenger thingies. They delay the turnaround don't you know?).
Just so long as the pilot isn't too tired to fly (or suffered a recent bereavement), the cabin crew aren't settling down for a nap, the cabin crew aren't terrorists, mentally ill or criminals with disqualifying convictions and at least some of the safety equipment (which MOL hasn't been able to persuade Boeing/IAA not to fit - it'll happen!) is working, everything will be fine. So long as the pilot keeps the bar intact and isn't being pestered by 'the great unwashed', I'll go home safe in the knowledge that everything is OK because MOL says so.
There are two basic laws of the universe that have yet to be defied;
1. You cannot compromise on safety - your customers will not forgive you.
2. You cannot treat your customers like sh!t - your customers will not forgive you.
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I feel sorry for the boys up front on that tape. They were chatting the way any crew chats about day to day issues with the job, but certain elements in FR will be slavering for an opportunity to hang them now. I wouldn't like C4 to come into my cockpit to hear some opinions I may have expressed down the years. Poor b'stards. Good luck guys.
What annoyed me was the way C4 let that comment about flight hours in the FR letter they read out go unchallenged. Once again the public has been served up with the lie that FR crews actually work an 18 hour week! That single point shows that C4 couldn't really be arsed about the truth - when sensationalism sells better.
What annoyed me was the way C4 let that comment about flight hours in the FR letter they read out go unchallenged. Once again the public has been served up with the lie that FR crews actually work an 18 hour week! That single point shows that C4 couldn't really be arsed about the truth - when sensationalism sells better.