The Demise of the Professional Pilot
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The Demise of the Professional Pilot
The Demise of the Professional Pilot
It is very sad to see, and must be very concerning for those pilots with years to go before retirement, or those considering a career as a professional pilot.
In the past the Airline Captain was a rewarding and satisfying career. The pay was commiserate with the expense and work required to obtain the qualifications, and study/work to maintain your qualifications (e.g.: recurrent Sims, CRM, DG’s courses, Tech Knowledge etc) and the experience that had to be gained over many years before you could Captain a Jet Airliner. The conditions (i.e. days off, duty hour restrictions, company restrictions, annual leave, benefits etc) compensated for the many duties flying throughout the night, through different time zones, with half your year spent in a hotel room far from your home and family. Compared to other professions like doctors, lawyers, accountants who also may have worked long hours, but could go home to the family each night.
Look at how things have changed in recent years. Selfish, Greedy Airline Owners, CEO’s and Managers have turned this profession into a sad and sorry state. Professional decision making has been taken away from the Captain, and given to the Managers, Rostering and Commercial Departments. Yes on paper you are still the one to make the final decision, but look deeper, even on this forum, and you will see if you try to exercise your responsibilities you will be deemed to be a trouble maker, or acting against the company’s best interests and be held back, intimidated, sacked or forced to leave.
With the introduction of low cost carriers, who basically keep their fares low by paying all pilots, flight attendants, engineers, check in staff and loaders minimum pay, are rostered long hours and with negligible benefits, all airlines are cutting their pay and conditions to compete. Yet even these low cost companies are continually reducing their staffs pay and conditions. Just look on this forum at airlines such as Ryan Air, whose pilots apparently have to pay for their own recurrent training with the airline. (See www.ryan-be-fair.org). The only salaries increasing in this industry are the CEO’s, BOD’s and Managers , who continually vote themselves pay rises and bonuses while all other staff are faced with pay cuts due reasons such as rising fuel prices, SARs, competition etc. With China’s and India’s economies strengthening, and therefore their requirement for fossil fuels increasing you have to expect even more drastic pay cuts to compensate, as all the other fixed costs such as aircraft and equipment will not decrease, therefore the only option left is to cut staffs pay and conditions, and to operate with less staff who work longer hours, for less money.
I believe these Airline Owners, CEO’s and Managers should be despised and held in contempt for their greedy and intimidating management.
Of course you will always get low experience pilots taking positions with them to gain experience, but where do you plan to go once you’ve gained the experience. Most major National Carriers and other supposedly non low cost carriers are drastically reducing their pay and conditions to compete, rather than all airlines raising their fares.
The pay for many airlines is lower, or soon will be, than for bus drivers, train drivers, heavy machinery operators with limited financial outlay, exam qualifications, or recurrent training. I’m sure they could have been pilots if they wanted to spend the money, and years of study required. If fact their duty time limitations are getting more restrictive than pilots.
Then you have the relevant CAA’s, FAA’s who seem way out of touch with the hours required by today’s airline pilots. Since the duty times were introduced years ago, every time a new longer range aircraft is introduced airlines ask for longer duty hours to fly them, and the CAA’s always say yes. Nowadays we can work a 12, 14, 16, 18 hour plus, duty, throughout the night, on many consecutive nights, and in many cases, as with our airline, they don’t even require a bed to sleep, just an upright seat, with all the lights on, noisy passengers, flight attendant services etc.
While we have slip patterns that take us on all night flights from the UK to Aus & NZ (13 hour time zone changes) within a few days, minimum rest then back again, with one maybe two days at home base before were off again. Have they heard of Jet Lag, you cannot always sleep when you have too because your body clock wont let you. I think for them Jet Lag is something they get when they go on a long flight on holiday, and then they sit on a beach for 10 days before flying home. The most taxing operation they have to do if figure out how that flexi straw in their pinacolada works. Try operating a Jet in fowl weather after flying several long flights on consecutive nights, for several months on end.
Yet ironically these twits making and extending these duty time limits sit in a quiet office from 9am to 5pm from Monday to Friday.
The flight and duty times has just been extended. Also as these new ultra long range aircraft are emerging the CAA’s and DCA’s of the world have allowed only the time in the front seat to be counted as duty time, therefore a 16 hour flight, with 18 hours of duty time could be counted as only 9 hours for example, therefore you can expect to do an extra trip or two a month. You can have it.
You’ll have to have a strong marriage to cope with that. If it doesn’t you’ll have to plan on working until your 65 to crawl back financially to where you were before the divorce took half of everything you had. Of course I’ve seen this already with long haul pilots.
Then in their wisdom they write a CAP371 best practices recommendations which are not mandatory, knowing only a handful of airlines will actually implement them. So the majority of airlines work their crew’s right up to the max hours ignoring these recommendations. They should be mandatory, otherwise don’t bother issuing them.
The hours worked, with multi sector short haul, or consecutive long haul, with fatigue due to jetlag etc, are unsustainable for a 40 year career. Some may feel they can work these hours just to gain enough experience to move to a respectable airline, yet the respectable airlines are very few now, and the working hours of these airlines are constantly been extended, and pay been reduced. A few pilots in the airline I’m with have retired early as they could not cope, or did not wish to try and cope with the hours been rostered, since our roster patterns were changed 3 years ago. One lost his medical. Yet it’s a lot of money and work to outlay to obtain the qualifications to only plan to do it for 15 to 20 years until you’ve burnt out, then move on to do something else. Can you imagine a doctor or lawyer plan on only working for 15-20 years before retiring and looking for a change of jobs? Then with the pay been constantly reduced it’s unrealistic to think you’ll have any where enough money to retire from flying and start a new line of work.
Can you count on working these hours for 40 years and keeping your medical? Certainly it won’t be long before the retirement age is 65 for pilots, assuming you maintain you’re medical until then. Yet this may be required to put aside sufficient money to retire comfortably.
Many pilots in the company I’m with are angry and are looking to leave, yet they can’t find a better job to go to at the moment. Others are saying they hope to get out of the industry in 3 to 5 years. If there is a pilot shortage in the future, then just expect to have to work longer hours to crew the schedule (this has happened in the airline I’m working with).
It’s time Airline Owners, Airline Management and the Governing CAA’s, FAA’s and DCA’s of the world were held responsible. As has been documented, Airliner incidents and accidents are normally a series of factors, with documented proof fatigue and commercial pressure is one of the major contributors, therefore the next time an accident is blamed on pilot error, check if fatigue or commercial pressure was a factor, and pass the blame directly on the above. It’s easy to say the Captain has the final responsibility, but as with the airline I am with, if I was to refuse to do the flight, or stand down due to myself or my crew been fatigued, my contract would be terminated immediately with no reason given.
Am I been dramatic? Yes
Am I been pessimistic? Yes
Am I angry? Yes
Am I been realistic? Yes
Good luck and good health, you’ll need it.
It is very sad to see, and must be very concerning for those pilots with years to go before retirement, or those considering a career as a professional pilot.
In the past the Airline Captain was a rewarding and satisfying career. The pay was commiserate with the expense and work required to obtain the qualifications, and study/work to maintain your qualifications (e.g.: recurrent Sims, CRM, DG’s courses, Tech Knowledge etc) and the experience that had to be gained over many years before you could Captain a Jet Airliner. The conditions (i.e. days off, duty hour restrictions, company restrictions, annual leave, benefits etc) compensated for the many duties flying throughout the night, through different time zones, with half your year spent in a hotel room far from your home and family. Compared to other professions like doctors, lawyers, accountants who also may have worked long hours, but could go home to the family each night.
Look at how things have changed in recent years. Selfish, Greedy Airline Owners, CEO’s and Managers have turned this profession into a sad and sorry state. Professional decision making has been taken away from the Captain, and given to the Managers, Rostering and Commercial Departments. Yes on paper you are still the one to make the final decision, but look deeper, even on this forum, and you will see if you try to exercise your responsibilities you will be deemed to be a trouble maker, or acting against the company’s best interests and be held back, intimidated, sacked or forced to leave.
With the introduction of low cost carriers, who basically keep their fares low by paying all pilots, flight attendants, engineers, check in staff and loaders minimum pay, are rostered long hours and with negligible benefits, all airlines are cutting their pay and conditions to compete. Yet even these low cost companies are continually reducing their staffs pay and conditions. Just look on this forum at airlines such as Ryan Air, whose pilots apparently have to pay for their own recurrent training with the airline. (See www.ryan-be-fair.org). The only salaries increasing in this industry are the CEO’s, BOD’s and Managers , who continually vote themselves pay rises and bonuses while all other staff are faced with pay cuts due reasons such as rising fuel prices, SARs, competition etc. With China’s and India’s economies strengthening, and therefore their requirement for fossil fuels increasing you have to expect even more drastic pay cuts to compensate, as all the other fixed costs such as aircraft and equipment will not decrease, therefore the only option left is to cut staffs pay and conditions, and to operate with less staff who work longer hours, for less money.
I believe these Airline Owners, CEO’s and Managers should be despised and held in contempt for their greedy and intimidating management.
Of course you will always get low experience pilots taking positions with them to gain experience, but where do you plan to go once you’ve gained the experience. Most major National Carriers and other supposedly non low cost carriers are drastically reducing their pay and conditions to compete, rather than all airlines raising their fares.
The pay for many airlines is lower, or soon will be, than for bus drivers, train drivers, heavy machinery operators with limited financial outlay, exam qualifications, or recurrent training. I’m sure they could have been pilots if they wanted to spend the money, and years of study required. If fact their duty time limitations are getting more restrictive than pilots.
Then you have the relevant CAA’s, FAA’s who seem way out of touch with the hours required by today’s airline pilots. Since the duty times were introduced years ago, every time a new longer range aircraft is introduced airlines ask for longer duty hours to fly them, and the CAA’s always say yes. Nowadays we can work a 12, 14, 16, 18 hour plus, duty, throughout the night, on many consecutive nights, and in many cases, as with our airline, they don’t even require a bed to sleep, just an upright seat, with all the lights on, noisy passengers, flight attendant services etc.
While we have slip patterns that take us on all night flights from the UK to Aus & NZ (13 hour time zone changes) within a few days, minimum rest then back again, with one maybe two days at home base before were off again. Have they heard of Jet Lag, you cannot always sleep when you have too because your body clock wont let you. I think for them Jet Lag is something they get when they go on a long flight on holiday, and then they sit on a beach for 10 days before flying home. The most taxing operation they have to do if figure out how that flexi straw in their pinacolada works. Try operating a Jet in fowl weather after flying several long flights on consecutive nights, for several months on end.
Yet ironically these twits making and extending these duty time limits sit in a quiet office from 9am to 5pm from Monday to Friday.
The flight and duty times has just been extended. Also as these new ultra long range aircraft are emerging the CAA’s and DCA’s of the world have allowed only the time in the front seat to be counted as duty time, therefore a 16 hour flight, with 18 hours of duty time could be counted as only 9 hours for example, therefore you can expect to do an extra trip or two a month. You can have it.
You’ll have to have a strong marriage to cope with that. If it doesn’t you’ll have to plan on working until your 65 to crawl back financially to where you were before the divorce took half of everything you had. Of course I’ve seen this already with long haul pilots.
Then in their wisdom they write a CAP371 best practices recommendations which are not mandatory, knowing only a handful of airlines will actually implement them. So the majority of airlines work their crew’s right up to the max hours ignoring these recommendations. They should be mandatory, otherwise don’t bother issuing them.
The hours worked, with multi sector short haul, or consecutive long haul, with fatigue due to jetlag etc, are unsustainable for a 40 year career. Some may feel they can work these hours just to gain enough experience to move to a respectable airline, yet the respectable airlines are very few now, and the working hours of these airlines are constantly been extended, and pay been reduced. A few pilots in the airline I’m with have retired early as they could not cope, or did not wish to try and cope with the hours been rostered, since our roster patterns were changed 3 years ago. One lost his medical. Yet it’s a lot of money and work to outlay to obtain the qualifications to only plan to do it for 15 to 20 years until you’ve burnt out, then move on to do something else. Can you imagine a doctor or lawyer plan on only working for 15-20 years before retiring and looking for a change of jobs? Then with the pay been constantly reduced it’s unrealistic to think you’ll have any where enough money to retire from flying and start a new line of work.
Can you count on working these hours for 40 years and keeping your medical? Certainly it won’t be long before the retirement age is 65 for pilots, assuming you maintain you’re medical until then. Yet this may be required to put aside sufficient money to retire comfortably.
Many pilots in the company I’m with are angry and are looking to leave, yet they can’t find a better job to go to at the moment. Others are saying they hope to get out of the industry in 3 to 5 years. If there is a pilot shortage in the future, then just expect to have to work longer hours to crew the schedule (this has happened in the airline I’m working with).
It’s time Airline Owners, Airline Management and the Governing CAA’s, FAA’s and DCA’s of the world were held responsible. As has been documented, Airliner incidents and accidents are normally a series of factors, with documented proof fatigue and commercial pressure is one of the major contributors, therefore the next time an accident is blamed on pilot error, check if fatigue or commercial pressure was a factor, and pass the blame directly on the above. It’s easy to say the Captain has the final responsibility, but as with the airline I am with, if I was to refuse to do the flight, or stand down due to myself or my crew been fatigued, my contract would be terminated immediately with no reason given.
Am I been dramatic? Yes
Am I been pessimistic? Yes
Am I angry? Yes
Am I been realistic? Yes
Good luck and good health, you’ll need it.
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Well said. Unfortunately you are correct.
The only people who can stop the rot are pilots and we have pretty well demonstrated ourselves to incapable or uninterested in doing so. Just look, for one example, at the thread on the breathalysed pilot for a good example of (a) something that would never have been contemplated in the past, and (b) for the range of pilot opinion on a matter where there should be a consensus. How many young pilots today would have refused?
Ours is a job in which our professional autonomy has been taken from us because we did not protect it. Nothing is likely to change, except for the worse. What Ryanair started by demanding payment for type ratings, etc. is gradually moving to other airlines ... and so on and so forth.
Those in established carriers think they are above and remote from these influences... but they are WRONG. They will be attacked, successfully, from below.
Depressing, but true.
The only people who can stop the rot are pilots and we have pretty well demonstrated ourselves to incapable or uninterested in doing so. Just look, for one example, at the thread on the breathalysed pilot for a good example of (a) something that would never have been contemplated in the past, and (b) for the range of pilot opinion on a matter where there should be a consensus. How many young pilots today would have refused?
Ours is a job in which our professional autonomy has been taken from us because we did not protect it. Nothing is likely to change, except for the worse. What Ryanair started by demanding payment for type ratings, etc. is gradually moving to other airlines ... and so on and so forth.
Those in established carriers think they are above and remote from these influences... but they are WRONG. They will be attacked, successfully, from below.
Depressing, but true.
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TDF380:
While I can't share your pessimism, I do share your concern regarding the cumulative effect of fatigue on long haul pilots as the range of aircraft increases. But, like anything else that concerns us these days when it comes to safety, it's a tough uphill battle to convince the rule makers that the risk will eventually come back to bite the industry very hard. Still, it's a battle worth fighting, and there's plenty of evidence to support the fight. Pilot unions and associations should be leading the charge on our behalf.
You make one statement which concerns me greatly, and I do hope you carefully consider the ramifications of it. You said, "if I was to refuse to do the flight, or stand down due to myself or my crew being fatigued, my contract would be terminated immediately with no reason given." First, is that really the safety culture within your company? If it is, you and your colleagues are in serious trouble, IMHO. At the very least, the safety manager(s) in your company should support a crew member's right to remove themselves from duty when fatigued, and they should make it known to management that dismissal for doing so is simply not on. Second, and more important, have you considered the potential ramifications to you (and/or those you love) should you have an accident during which it is proved that you were knowingly fatigued? No pay cheque or retirement plan is worth that, IMHO.
While I can't share your pessimism, I do share your concern regarding the cumulative effect of fatigue on long haul pilots as the range of aircraft increases. But, like anything else that concerns us these days when it comes to safety, it's a tough uphill battle to convince the rule makers that the risk will eventually come back to bite the industry very hard. Still, it's a battle worth fighting, and there's plenty of evidence to support the fight. Pilot unions and associations should be leading the charge on our behalf.
You make one statement which concerns me greatly, and I do hope you carefully consider the ramifications of it. You said, "if I was to refuse to do the flight, or stand down due to myself or my crew being fatigued, my contract would be terminated immediately with no reason given." First, is that really the safety culture within your company? If it is, you and your colleagues are in serious trouble, IMHO. At the very least, the safety manager(s) in your company should support a crew member's right to remove themselves from duty when fatigued, and they should make it known to management that dismissal for doing so is simply not on. Second, and more important, have you considered the potential ramifications to you (and/or those you love) should you have an accident during which it is proved that you were knowingly fatigued? No pay cheque or retirement plan is worth that, IMHO.
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Safety Guy
You may not have been in the trenches in the last few years, but things have definitely changed for the worse.
It is now common for those who stand up for what is right to be labelled as troublemakers, and even their fellow pilots accuse them of being anti-company if they do not bend over backwards and keep the operation going, even if it means bending the rules.
When their jobs are threatened, some pilots seem to lose their integrity quicker than than anything else.
Let us hope that the darkest hour is passed, and things will improve from now on, because it has been ugly.
You may not have been in the trenches in the last few years, but things have definitely changed for the worse.
It is now common for those who stand up for what is right to be labelled as troublemakers, and even their fellow pilots accuse them of being anti-company if they do not bend over backwards and keep the operation going, even if it means bending the rules.
When their jobs are threatened, some pilots seem to lose their integrity quicker than than anything else.
Let us hope that the darkest hour is passed, and things will improve from now on, because it has been ugly.
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Well said TDF 380,
I totally agree with your concern for the demise of the industry. I think a more positive stance from flight crew would have stopped this a long time ago, however, there are to many pilots willing to self type rate. Judging by ryanair it doesnt stop at self type ratings.
I have sadly seen for myself, friends operating in the air taxi work, being undermined by pilots working for free, yes FREE. Unable to negotiate pay rises or medical expenses. They like flying air taxi but after becoming depressed and being cornered into accepting pay cuts, working longer hours , they have packed up and left the industry.
So these pilots working for free, There excuse? I need the multi time. But what happens when they leave after gaining these multi engine hours? working for another employer for low pay and long hours.
So what employer would'nt recruit somone willing to work Long hours and accept irregular working patterns and for FREE ?Would this happen in the legal, dentist, accountancy fields ? Like
it would .
So as TDF 380 witnesses colleagues retiring early after a 15 - 20 year period, How lucky are they , I have friends throwing the towel in much sooner without ever flying a commercial or corporate Jet and looking at going bankrupt. So where and how does this stop?
I think it is time for all pilots to be more proactive in there stance against such working practises. Balpa and other organistaions seem to have lost there fighting spirit.
I totally agree with your concern for the demise of the industry. I think a more positive stance from flight crew would have stopped this a long time ago, however, there are to many pilots willing to self type rate. Judging by ryanair it doesnt stop at self type ratings.
I have sadly seen for myself, friends operating in the air taxi work, being undermined by pilots working for free, yes FREE. Unable to negotiate pay rises or medical expenses. They like flying air taxi but after becoming depressed and being cornered into accepting pay cuts, working longer hours , they have packed up and left the industry.
So these pilots working for free, There excuse? I need the multi time. But what happens when they leave after gaining these multi engine hours? working for another employer for low pay and long hours.
So what employer would'nt recruit somone willing to work Long hours and accept irregular working patterns and for FREE ?Would this happen in the legal, dentist, accountancy fields ? Like
it would . So as TDF 380 witnesses colleagues retiring early after a 15 - 20 year period, How lucky are they , I have friends throwing the towel in much sooner without ever flying a commercial or corporate Jet and looking at going bankrupt. So where and how does this stop?
I think it is time for all pilots to be more proactive in there stance against such working practises. Balpa and other organistaions seem to have lost there fighting spirit.
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TDF 380,
To right, those of us in well run, great companies are facing the drip drip of cost cutting and corner cutting. Mostly as a result of pilots in LoCos companies accepting second best and getting shafted daily. The sad thing is they know nothing better.
Joyce Tick: Fatigue and low moral affect a pilots professional attitude.
Pilots are too self deprecating- You would never hear a GP saying that they are just panadol prescribers!
To right, those of us in well run, great companies are facing the drip drip of cost cutting and corner cutting. Mostly as a result of pilots in LoCos companies accepting second best and getting shafted daily. The sad thing is they know nothing better.
Joyce Tick: Fatigue and low moral affect a pilots professional attitude.
Pilots are too self deprecating- You would never hear a GP saying that they are just panadol prescribers!
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Well said. We'll see more of these posts from time to time, I expect.
I'm very glad to have got out of the airlines, into a wonderful job with great people, which uses my skills and adds to them, whilst having none of the down-sides of the airline routine.
My friends tell me that since my job change, I've become a different person, much more the way I was years ago before I got into public transport flying. I feel much, much, happier, younger, more healthy, and more positive.
The most important thing I have realised, is how little I was aware of the effect that an airline job was having. Only when a good friend and colleague of mine had a near-breakdown did I start to realise the damage being done.
I'm very glad to have got out of the airlines, into a wonderful job with great people, which uses my skills and adds to them, whilst having none of the down-sides of the airline routine.
My friends tell me that since my job change, I've become a different person, much more the way I was years ago before I got into public transport flying. I feel much, much, happier, younger, more healthy, and more positive.
The most important thing I have realised, is how little I was aware of the effect that an airline job was having. Only when a good friend and colleague of mine had a near-breakdown did I start to realise the damage being done.
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Whilst I dont fly for a carrier, I understand , I think, the gist of this. For those who aspire to be captain with any major carrier would any of you care to tell us what your annual gross pay is? I stress gross and not net pay, including all taxable and non taxable allowances. Perhaps some budding captains may think twice. Before anyone shouts, yes I know money is not everything but it does assuage some of the feelings.
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Hi Ms T Ozi,
Thank you... You are the kind of twit of whom I refer! You would not know a good job if it bit you on the nose. Ryan air!! This is a wind up.
Down with the non-commercial pilot!
Thank you... You are the kind of twit of whom I refer! You would not know a good job if it bit you on the nose. Ryan air!! This is a wind up.
Down with the non-commercial pilot!
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Good old Moritz... oops, I meant Ms Turret. This is all part of the process of aviation going the way of the merchant shipping industry- flag of convenience hulls, with crews drawn from wherever in the world they are cheapest. It is interesting that there is a quite close correlation between the safer airlines, and the salaries they pay...
Good luck at contract renewal time, there WILL be someone cheaper available, ready and willing to take your job. Or next time the company introduces a new type: accept the new Ts&Cs, or don't get transferred onto it.
Troll.
Good luck at contract renewal time, there WILL be someone cheaper available, ready and willing to take your job. Or next time the company introduces a new type: accept the new Ts&Cs, or don't get transferred onto it.
Troll.
Paxing All Over The World
I believe these Airline Owners, CEO’s and Managers should be despised and held in contempt for their greedy and intimidating management.
Yes, it is grim that the folks up the front are having a bad time and grim that the saftey margins are bing whittled down - but they are being changed in every walk of life. To give but one example, goverments used to plan far ahead, consult and move forward with care. Anyone want to say that they still do that? In the same way that govts are hurting more people and wasting as much money as they save, so are airlines/banks/supermarkets. The British govt connived at the death of many in Iraq and will connive at deaths in the airline world. That is what mankind does, so I join the pessimisim.
BUT remember that the folks becoming pilots now will not have known the previous way of doing things and so will not think things so extreme. In the same way that the young people entering my main field (telecommunications) do not think the demands made of them to be unusual. Relativity? That'll be the one!
We can only watch out for ourselves and those near to us.
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Even more frightening. . . by far!
Yes the position of Captain has been watered down, dumbed down, almost disolved or so my old man tells me and he should know he was one of the youngest Lancaster bomber captains during the early days of the second world war. He then went on to fly Comets, 707 and 747 aircraft retiring from BA just before the Captain became "just one of the crew". . .
But what I find more frightening is this. . why would a young man bother to work his bxxxxx off at school then universtity then flight school and obtain the ATPL(Frozen) to take a job for the "peanuts" a new F/O is offered and the absurdly poor working conditions? All he has to do is father 4 or 5 children (that bit is quite fun) hold out his hand and at only 20 years of age be handed, yes handed, Welfare of more than £1000 a month totally tax free, be given a "free" council house and all the contents therein and when challenged as to why an able bodied young man is not working his retort is "I am too busy looking after my young children to work" . . . .enuff said!!!
The Welfare State was the socialists answer to a problem but has now become the PROBLEM !!
But what I find more frightening is this. . why would a young man bother to work his bxxxxx off at school then universtity then flight school and obtain the ATPL(Frozen) to take a job for the "peanuts" a new F/O is offered and the absurdly poor working conditions? All he has to do is father 4 or 5 children (that bit is quite fun) hold out his hand and at only 20 years of age be handed, yes handed, Welfare of more than £1000 a month totally tax free, be given a "free" council house and all the contents therein and when challenged as to why an able bodied young man is not working his retort is "I am too busy looking after my young children to work" . . . .enuff said!!!
The Welfare State was the socialists answer to a problem but has now become the PROBLEM !!
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Ali, well said.
If I only knew then what I know now I would have stayed in my previous career.
I earn the same as a Headmaster of a Secondary School as a Captain of a large modern jet, but have a damn sight more peoples lives at my fingertips, resting on split second descision making.
The whole situation is disgusting.
380, you deserve a medal for your post.
If I only knew then what I know now I would have stayed in my previous career.
I earn the same as a Headmaster of a Secondary School as a Captain of a large modern jet, but have a damn sight more peoples lives at my fingertips, resting on split second descision making.
The whole situation is disgusting.
380, you deserve a medal for your post.
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If Safety Guy cares to read the latest comments about Royal Brunei in the Far East Forum he will discover the airline that encapsulates all his concerns in his 2nd paragraph. One of the worst examples anyone could find.
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This is why I'm leaving my company. Gonno fly bis jets whenever required, no major time zone changes, minimum hours. Do something else in my spare time, be with my family more and enjoy my life. I remember when I first started in the business it was seen to be quite glamorous, not any more. We are under rated and undermined. When I first had children I would have pushed them into the aviation business, not any more. There are far more professions now that are held in higher esteem, and command higher salaries.
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Look at how things have changed in recent years. Selfish, Greedy Airline Owners, CEO’s and Managers have turned this profession into a sad and sorry state.
That statement very nicely sums up the attittude of a lot of so called "professional" pilots out there. Some of whom are now CEO's or airline senior managers !!
What goes around comes around........we only have ourselves to blame
Off for a Chinese now.........
DP
Last edited by Duck Peeking; 31st Jan 2005 at 01:15.
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So what do you want the managers to do in the current climate? Do you really think that cutting top managements’ pay is going to be enough to cover the salaries of all the pilots? Of course not!
There are so many other factors to think of and if any union thinks of revolting, things sadly will become worse in the industry.
I am a pilot wannabe myself, but I know that a strike at the moment will have undesirable consequences. Furthermore, what guarantees that lower salaries are not going to spread to other industries?
I hear that a starting F/O in UK will make around 35, 000 Pounds pre-tax. According to my knowledge that is still a good salary, but not perfect. Could any Brits elaborate more on how good such a salary is? I'm still new to the UK and am not acquainted with its salaries.
Of course I would love to have a higher salary as a pilot. If I go into another job with better salary/conditions I will miss on all the fun of hoping around all the time. I have been living in many different places all my life and can't imagine settling down in one place now. I still want to be on the move, that's one of the main reasons why I want to work as a pilot. And yes, I know it will no turn out as glamorous and beautiful as I think, but, hey, I like it!
And the idea of a person travelling all the time still seams glamorous to many people (especially if they hate 9-5 jobs like me).
cheers
guybrush
There are so many other factors to think of and if any union thinks of revolting, things sadly will become worse in the industry.
I am a pilot wannabe myself, but I know that a strike at the moment will have undesirable consequences. Furthermore, what guarantees that lower salaries are not going to spread to other industries?
I hear that a starting F/O in UK will make around 35, 000 Pounds pre-tax. According to my knowledge that is still a good salary, but not perfect. Could any Brits elaborate more on how good such a salary is? I'm still new to the UK and am not acquainted with its salaries.
Of course I would love to have a higher salary as a pilot. If I go into another job with better salary/conditions I will miss on all the fun of hoping around all the time. I have been living in many different places all my life and can't imagine settling down in one place now. I still want to be on the move, that's one of the main reasons why I want to work as a pilot. And yes, I know it will no turn out as glamorous and beautiful as I think, but, hey, I like it!
And the idea of a person travelling all the time still seams glamorous to many people (especially if they hate 9-5 jobs like me).cheers
guybrush
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Guybrush Hmmm Not many people start on 35,000 UK pounds a yr. Not much either when you try and buy a house in the UK. I guess you could buy a pyramid for 35 grand. Not in the UK, I'm afraid....