Air Atlanta Cargo incident Sharjah 07/11/04
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Alex - apologies, i wrote that before seeing your second post. After seeing what has been written on this thread - and in combination with the MK thread etc etc etc, just got a little frustrated with the crap that is being thrown back and forth..
Sorry if offence was caused....
Sorry if offence was caused....
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Paladini
My apologies. I was not pointing the finger at AAI's pay in particular. Of course pay is not everything. It is how the company or it's "agent" treats it's employees. For example, are they continuely lied too or misled, given no information, that results in rumours etc. How many different "deals" being banded about by JOS, with policy made up on the "hoof" and the spur of the moment? How many different pay scales are there for people doing the same job at AAI??
I'm sure you would admit, that after a decent day's work, there should be a decent days pay, which equates to a happier crew environment. Therefore the crews would spend a little extra time thinking about the job rather than whinging about Ts and Cs.
A happy crewmember is a safe crewmember. There appears to me there is a great deal of unhappiness amongst the crews at AAI. Just read the threads with the topics concerning AAI. Do you read into a thread, about BA, for example, of such unhappiness? In view of recent events, maybe the results of AAI's policy is coming home to roost.
Did I ever want to join CX? No, I did not. As for Hong Kong the term F.I.L.T.H. comes to mind. Let me elaborate. "Failed in London, try Hongkong."
My apologies. I was not pointing the finger at AAI's pay in particular. Of course pay is not everything. It is how the company or it's "agent" treats it's employees. For example, are they continuely lied too or misled, given no information, that results in rumours etc. How many different "deals" being banded about by JOS, with policy made up on the "hoof" and the spur of the moment? How many different pay scales are there for people doing the same job at AAI??
I'm sure you would admit, that after a decent day's work, there should be a decent days pay, which equates to a happier crew environment. Therefore the crews would spend a little extra time thinking about the job rather than whinging about Ts and Cs.
A happy crewmember is a safe crewmember. There appears to me there is a great deal of unhappiness amongst the crews at AAI. Just read the threads with the topics concerning AAI. Do you read into a thread, about BA, for example, of such unhappiness? In view of recent events, maybe the results of AAI's policy is coming home to roost.
Did I ever want to join CX? No, I did not. As for Hong Kong the term F.I.L.T.H. comes to mind. Let me elaborate. "Failed in London, try Hongkong."
Last edited by doubleu-anker; 14th Nov 2004 at 21:29.
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Mutt said: "Did Boeing test the aircraft with new brakes and tires?".
My understanding is that, for certification, the RTO test has to be completed at MTOW with worn brakes and tyres - at least these days. Maybe when the Classic was certificated that wasn't the case? As one of the great uninformed it seems to me that certification requirements should include an additional "real world" second or two for the crew to recognise what's happening before deciding to abort.
My understanding is that, for certification, the RTO test has to be completed at MTOW with worn brakes and tyres - at least these days. Maybe when the Classic was certificated that wasn't the case? As one of the great uninformed it seems to me that certification requirements should include an additional "real world" second or two for the crew to recognise what's happening before deciding to abort.
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Back in the good old days of BOAC the rejected take-off was certified and checked under the criteria that one allowed the pilot one second to recognise the situation and make his decision and a further one second for each manipulation required.
Assuming therefore a failure exactly at V1 on an older type of 747, the aircraft would travel a considerable distance before effectively decelerating, during which the pilot would have recognised/decided to abandon take-off, closed the throttles, applied full brakes, deployed the speedbrakes and selected full reverse - a total of 5 seconds.
Are modern aircraft so certified?
Assuming therefore a failure exactly at V1 on an older type of 747, the aircraft would travel a considerable distance before effectively decelerating, during which the pilot would have recognised/decided to abandon take-off, closed the throttles, applied full brakes, deployed the speedbrakes and selected full reverse - a total of 5 seconds.
Are modern aircraft so certified?
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411A
Thanks for the update on AAI and its employees. Goes nicely with the precis on the standard of Britannia pilots in the wake of the Girona accident.
Could you post a picture of yourself so we can all see the exacting standard we should all aspire to as pilots because clearly we are all lacking in many areas.
Oh, and could you autograph it as well, for my 6 year old daughter of course.
Thanks for the update on AAI and its employees. Goes nicely with the precis on the standard of Britannia pilots in the wake of the Girona accident.
Could you post a picture of yourself so we can all see the exacting standard we should all aspire to as pilots because clearly we are all lacking in many areas.
Oh, and could you autograph it as well, for my 6 year old daughter of course.
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Brake wear.
Initially the RTO did not take into consideration multiple worn brakes.
Especially a situation where legally you can go with every brake worn to just above it limits.
There is brake wear limit indicated by an indicator on each brake.
The situation was highlighted by a DC10 that over ran on an RTO when it should have been able to stop.
( I am sure someone will fill in the details of the particular incident !
)
The problem was multiple brakes were worn but still in MM limits.
ADs ( 92-10-03, 97,02-04, etc) were issued that basically reduced the amount of wear that could be accepted and also consideration is given to uneven brake wear.
Initially the RTO did not take into consideration multiple worn brakes.
Especially a situation where legally you can go with every brake worn to just above it limits.
There is brake wear limit indicated by an indicator on each brake.
The situation was highlighted by a DC10 that over ran on an RTO when it should have been able to stop.
( I am sure someone will fill in the details of the particular incident !
)The problem was multiple brakes were worn but still in MM limits.
ADs ( 92-10-03, 97,02-04, etc) were issued that basically reduced the amount of wear that could be accepted and also consideration is given to uneven brake wear.
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None of this surprises me as AAI seem to have the rejects of the aviation world filling their seats!
If I were an employer and saw AAI as a previous airline, I would most certainly reject the individuals application.
I'm surprised there haven't been more incidents or accidents.
Blame whoever, but my bet is on the crew's actions, or should I say lack of actions!
If I were an employer and saw AAI as a previous airline, I would most certainly reject the individuals application.
I'm surprised there haven't been more incidents or accidents.
Blame whoever, but my bet is on the crew's actions, or should I say lack of actions!
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asianaav8r
Could we have your picture too?
Stop me if I'm wrong here, but a pattern is emerging. Both "veteran" pilots who've been round the block/world a few times. Both have no doubt lots to offer in experience.
Both from America.
Is it really neccessary to be so unpleasant and to tar everyone in a particular outfit with the same brush?
Could we have your picture too?
Stop me if I'm wrong here, but a pattern is emerging. Both "veteran" pilots who've been round the block/world a few times. Both have no doubt lots to offer in experience.
Both from America.
Is it really neccessary to be so unpleasant and to tar everyone in a particular outfit with the same brush?
ex-Tanker
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I don´t know too many employees at AAI but the ones I do know are certainly not the rejects of the aviation world. They are well respected captains from a couple of well respected airlines, who are wanting to carry on flying after their career contract finished.
If I were the boss of AAI, that is exactly the sort of pilot I would employ too, given the operational environment and the dependence placed on the flight crews by the company.
If I were the boss of AAI, that is exactly the sort of pilot I would employ too, given the operational environment and the dependence placed on the flight crews by the company.
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
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asianaav8r has just proved the old adage that it is better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt:
Just goes to show why someone like him isn't and no doubt ever will be an "employer" with that kind of discriminating perception. 
Using conclusions like those mentioned above I assume we can draw inference from the post about the Asiana B747 and the Southwest B737 mentioned in another thread on here that an "employer" using the same logic should never employ someone like asianaav8r because he is most likely to try and land his a/c on another one waiting at the threshold. It's coments by fekwits like asianaav8r that only serve to highlight that some (alleged) pilots have the intelligence of a housebrick when it comes to jumping to conclusions based on rumours that appear on here from time to time.
If I were an employer and saw AAI as a previous airline, I would most certainly reject the individuals application.
Using conclusions like those mentioned above I assume we can draw inference from the post about the Asiana B747 and the Southwest B737 mentioned in another thread on here that an "employer" using the same logic should never employ someone like asianaav8r because he is most likely to try and land his a/c on another one waiting at the threshold. It's coments by fekwits like asianaav8r that only serve to highlight that some (alleged) pilots have the intelligence of a housebrick when it comes to jumping to conclusions based on rumours that appear on here from time to time.
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asianaav8r
Your comments leave me with mouth open... Asiana you seem to work for seems to be your measure of standards. Or perhaps you shoudl use KAL as the measure.
I would guess that the 1993, B737 accident was an by no mean the fault of a superb crew who after the third approach attempt flew the aircraft into a 1000ft high ridge?
How about that B744 that performed Czardas (Hungarian folk dance) in PANC some years back with a Russian IL62 throwing containers around and braking terminal windows!
Link to pictures and full text
http://www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/..._anchorage.htm
For a 38 year veteran of aviation biz, your comments are suprisingly naive and as a matter of fact, quite insulting to the many fine people that work with AAI.
AD
I would guess that the 1993, B737 accident was an by no mean the fault of a superb crew who after the third approach attempt flew the aircraft into a 1000ft high ridge?
How about that B744 that performed Czardas (Hungarian folk dance) in PANC some years back with a Russian IL62 throwing containers around and braking terminal windows!
Link to pictures and full text
http://www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/..._anchorage.htm
For a 38 year veteran of aviation biz, your comments are suprisingly naive and as a matter of fact, quite insulting to the many fine people that work with AAI.
AD
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Aye Aye, Atlanta Driver,
Met a couple of Atlanta boys in K.L and none were whinging about the company. Infact their exact words were "AAI might not be the best paying company but certainly is'nt the worst, but the conditions and people make up for any deficiencies"
Seems like a lot of wanabe accident investigators here.
Facts Facts thats all that count.
P.S Can I have some pictures and autographs too.................
Wooblah.
Met a couple of Atlanta boys in K.L and none were whinging about the company. Infact their exact words were "AAI might not be the best paying company but certainly is'nt the worst, but the conditions and people make up for any deficiencies"
Seems like a lot of wanabe accident investigators here.
Facts Facts thats all that count.
P.S Can I have some pictures and autographs too.................
Wooblah.
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Air Atlanta
Guys
I am due to fly on Air Atlanta (EUK is Air Atlanta isnt it??) to Sharm El Sheikh (SSH), Egypt from LGW in a couple of weeks, and to be honest I am rather worried! I think it is a 747-200 we are flying on - should I have cause for concern and should I try to book another airline?? All I hear about is delays due to technical problems...and 'incidents' like on this forum
Cheers
I am due to fly on Air Atlanta (EUK is Air Atlanta isnt it??) to Sharm El Sheikh (SSH), Egypt from LGW in a couple of weeks, and to be honest I am rather worried! I think it is a 747-200 we are flying on - should I have cause for concern and should I try to book another airline?? All I hear about is delays due to technical problems...and 'incidents' like on this forum
Cheers
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Similar request to above - does anyone have any info on the ex SQ 747-400s they're operating for Iberia? Can't seem to find any info on the seat configuration from the Atlanta website - presumably they've done away with the individual TVs?
I am due to fly on Air Atlanta (EUK is Air Atlanta isnt it??) to Sharm El Sheikh (SSH), Egypt from LGW in a couple of weeks, and to be honest I am rather worried! I think it is a 747-200 we are flying on - should I have cause for concern and should I try to book another airline?? All I hear about is delays due to technical problems...and 'incidents' like on this forum
Why don't you take the trip and report back to us