Helicopter Accident Isle of Wight

[Ovc000]

Originally Posted by Gordy

I suspect that is a down side of the flight school.... We do training every year for stuck left, stuck right, loss of thrust etc, none of which require autorotation.

As most know, (I have written an account on Pprune somewhere), I had stuck left pedal in an Astar with 6 passengers many years ago---landed it safely, no damage.

Would be interesting if you can still control the R44 when it chopped of the TR gearbox and horizontal stabilizer....
I assume the change of CofG will be massive

[Radgirl]

Originally Posted by DogTailRed2

There have been several catastrophic failures recently leading to loss of life. Have ballistic chutes ever been looked at as a last ditch survival mechanism for helos?
It has also been reported that families of those lost are crowd funding to pay for their repatriation. Would a helicopter flight be considered high risk? Would standard holiday insurance not pay out?

Most travel insurance excludes training or self fly. Some policies allow commercial flights in small aircraft. Insurance is always based on where you LIVE and covers repatriation to that country not any third country.

[DuncanDoenitz]

Originally Posted by DogTailRed2

There have been several catastrophic failures recently leading to loss of life. Have ballistic chutes ever been looked at as a last ditch survival mechanism for helos?

I think the issue here is how, and where, it would be mounted.

Above the rotor disc there is only the rotor head. Size and weight may be problematic.

Below the rotor disc; it needs to deploy through the disc. Unless you're going to somehow jettison the blades, you're looking at scenarios where premature operation of the ballistic system will result in mutual destruction of both the rotor and ballistic systems.

[Gordy]

Originally Posted by Ovc000

Would be interesting if you can still control the R44 when it chopped of the TR gearbox and horizontal stabilizer....
I assume the change of CofG will be massive

I would probably say not---this would be a catastrophic event.

[MightyGem]

Originally Posted by DogTailRed2

It has also been reported that families of those lost are crowd funding to pay for their repatriation. Would a helicopter flight be considered high risk? Would standard holiday insurance not pay out?

When you live in the UK and holiday in the UK, you don't generally take out holiday insurance. I never have.

[sycamore]

Here`s one I `prepared 60 yrs ago;one t/r blade `let go`,followed a millisecond later by the rest and t/r g/box;about 50 lbs x30 ft moved the Cof G to somewhere in the nose,needing cyclic on the back stop...almost..shut it down,pointing at a hilltop-hole in the jungle ,landed near top but on a 30* upslope,burst a mainwheel tyre,which stopped it rolling back!

[PAXboy]

Amateur observation: Could the tail rotor have been lost at impact? It is suggested in this thread:

... but massive vertical crushing.

Could the 'bounce' as it hit the deck have caused a whiplash of the tail boom, so that the weight of the rotor and gearbox caused it to fracture?

[SASless]

Now who is the lucky Boy....Sycamore!

Well Done!

Did you have trouble lighting up a cigarette afterwards?

[mickjoebill]

Before the forced mandate for improved fuel cells in the r44 an impact such as this without an ensuing fire was rare. Survivors of such impacts rarer still.
In this case there are three fatalities and one survivor and we can reflect on continuing to improve the odds of occupant survivability in light aircraft, as best we can.
Absence of fire and a sole survivor does help a coroner determine the precise cause of death so over time I wonder if there is any more we can learn.

Having studied over 100 helicopter accidents I am aware that a spin from low altitude and impact without a subsequent fire, is often fatal even in an aircraft with a more elaborate impact absorbing seats such as an EC 130.
The investigation of the EC 130 accident in Rotterdam June 2010 is authoritative; from a 220ft hover the vertical impact speed was 31kph based on video of the accident.
There was one survivor.
I wonder if semi disposable flight helmets of a kind worn by skateboarders can play a role in walk up joy rides in GA?

I note middle airbags are now in use in between front seats of cars, presumably their introduction is based on data that head impacts made between passengers can and should be mitigated.

Maybe a cheap helmet can perform a similar role in GA?

[Agile]

Originally Posted by mickjoebill

I note middle airbags are now in use in between front seats of cars, presumably their introduction is based on data that head impacts made between passengers can and should be mitigated.
Maybe a cheap helmet can perform a similar role in GA?

Sure helmets are good especially for pilots, it makes sure you do not incapacitate yourself by banging your head.
Reading a few extract of similar accident reports, the massive vertical energy of the crash results principally in broken back injuries and nervous system damage as a consequence.
As a passenger, I would take an energy absorbing seat and a 4 point harness with the center buckle set tight just below the chest, rather than a helmet.

I often wondered how to improve ones chance of survival, in preparation for such event, my conclusion was set your back as firmly as possible against the back of the seat, Vertebral compression is a better outcome.

[Cornish Jack]

Sycamore - re. #66 ... gulp . Not something that the Chetwynd sessions would have prepared you for !

[LOZZ]

I live on the IoW and used to fly the exact same type and even colour. I'm struggling to imagine what might have occurred in straight and level flight to have caused this. Clipper II doesn't have carb heat. Experienced and presumably competent pilot. I cycled through Sandown airfield on 27th July and noticed what I believe to be that aircraft operating what appeared to be pleasure flights. Some ground crew with tabards and a small shelter for pax to check in by. I recall thinking I wouldn't want to be doing pleasure flights with an R44. The outfit I trained with, and did some ground crew work with for pleasure & VVIP flights at events, used jet/long box presumably because had more power available for when you don't know what pax weight you'll be loading up with next. But presumably this is a red herring as in this case the aircraft took off OK and was in the straight and level for a while. As for it being a flying lesson as reported by some of the media, is that credible or some kind of marketing gimmick? Only once I was some way into my PPL(H) training did I have someone in the back, which was normally a fellow student.

All very sad, RIP to the three that perished and I wish a speedy and full recovery to the fourth.

[212man]

that aircraft operating what appeared to be pleasure flights. Some ground crew with tabards and a small shelter for pax to check in by

​​​​​​​As for it being a flying lesson as reported by some of the media, is that credible or some kind of marketing gimmick?

I think this is the elephant in the room - abuse of a loophole given a blind eye by the regulator (multiple operators doing the same thing).

[Uplinker]

Just for info, and not wishing to be insensitive; could a helicopter pilot explain how a main rotor blade in flight could pitch low enough or deflect low enough to chop the tail boom. Are there not physical stops to prevent it ?

And secondly, what does the helicopter pilot have to do, and what options are there to control the 'craft after loss of a tail rotor or tail rotor thrust ?

This is not intended to criticise anybody at all; it's merely for my technical understanding, (for this fixed wing pilot).

[Jetstream67]

Very little of an unintended but abrupt cyclic control movement can cause bigger problems in small helicopters like the Robinsons. This is however not news to pilots or instructors

[Luther Sebastian]

Rumour network, so my theory - inadvertent float deployment at cruise (above placarded limit), resulting drag causes nose-over, chopped tail with this result.

[PPRuNeUser469990]

I think carrying passengers in the back of a trial lesson (or any lesson) has been a bit of a grey area of contention for a while now. Some say it's ok if the passengers are "interested" in their PPL, or they are swapping round and all having a go up front on the controls.

Some operators use this grey area to do what is effectively "pleasure flying", but under the guise of flight instruction.

If rear seat passengers were sold a "sightseeing" style flight, then an it should be an AOC flight

Would inadvertent float deployment cause such an accident? I am not sure. It would certainly be a suprise and could result in an abrupt cyclic input, and hence tail chop.

for ref:

Passenger in training flight

Conducting a trial lesson with passengers in the back?

Passengers while instructing

[EbonyGrove]

Originally Posted by 212man

I think this is the elephant in the room - abuse of a loophole given a blind eye by the regulator (multiple operators doing the same thing).

Absolutely. Sandown is an unlicenced aerodrome and according to the UK CAA:It is a requirement for an aerodrome to be licensed if it is used for:

• commercial air transport of passengers
• public transport of passengers
• flying training in aircraft above a specified weight

[212man]

Originally Posted by Luther Sebastian

Rumour network, so my theory - inadvertent float deployment at cruise (above placarded limit), resulting drag causes nose-over, chopped tail with this result.

Looking at the speeds recorded in FR24 it seems unlikely, compared to the POH limits:





Interesting to see this Note in the POH:


It begs the question - what are they for, if not ditching????

[PPRuNeUser469990]

• Flying Training:
  Aerodromes that facilitate flying training for pilot qualifications in aircraft exceeding a specific weight (e.g., 2,730kg for aeroplanes) are also required to be licensed.

R44 MTOW is 2400 lbs (ie 1088 kg)