Conducting a trial lesson with passengers in the back?

[tegwin]

My understanding of the rules are that you can only have passengers in the back of any PPL type lessons if the passengers are also learning to fly and are therefore learning/observing to further their knowledge....General passengers in the back are not allowed.


So how can companies offer trial flights where the person recieving the lesson can bring along two friends to backseat.....Surley thats technically illegal?


Can anyone correct me?

[SkyCamMK]

Yes it is technically illegal since it makes it a pulic transport flight but not for training which is a special case. Shame but true!

[preduk]

They are trial lessons not flights, therefore the schools can say that every person is learning to fly apart from the instructor. Most schools usually have one day membership forms.

[the dean]

in JAAland..not allowed unless it is simply a scenic flight, but if it is a trial 'lesson' where the ' potential student ' is being demonstrated and taking the controls or even in advanced lesson... 'passangers' cannot be carried...unless they are 'flight crew members' necessary for the operation of the aircraft.
another 'student' is not a necessary flight crew member at any time and cannot be carried AT ALL when flight instruction is being given.

dean.

[SkyCamMK]

Hi PredUK Are you sure that one day memberships are not to enable non-members to fly as guest of PPL holders on private flights. A student's parents for example are quite obviously not students and therefore it is not a trial lessson for them it is a jolly and a public transport flight. You would need an AOC A to A to be able to do what you describe. It would probably invalidate any insurance too.

PS The Dean what is a scenic flight and how is it different?

[poss]

[insert flyingclub name here] also do this as part of their trial lesson package. There must be some way around it, perhaps claiming the other people are there providing an extra lookout?

[coodem]

I don't think it's a good idea to name schools, as it could get them into trouble. I think back seating is great for training, and don't really want it to be stopped

In life there are a lot of rules, some silly, people usually find ways round them and the autorities turn a blind eye to it. But once it gets too openly discussed, they arn't left with much option but to start enforcing it.

[poss]

I've edited it but if they didn't want people to find out it wouldn't be broadcast all over their website.

[the dean]

skycam..sorry ..by scenic i meant..some kind of sightseeing flight. used to find a lot of these..but then we had an AOC.

dean

[TheOddOne]

No, it's perfectly legal and not a problem.

This has been done to death on pprune many times in the past. Look at this lot...

http://www.pprune.org/forums/search....archid=2940557

TheOddOne

[coodem]

poss, I was not having a go at you. I guess if they are advertising it, they must have done a bit of research into the regs before they did.

All these rules and regs have been worded so badly, its real hard to decipher what can and can't be done. Every person you ask will interpret their reading differently.

[SkyCamMK]

Thanks OddOne yes it has always been difficult because the cost of a lesson may not necessarily be increased if a 4 seater is used and others are carried. It will always be discussed though until a case is decided somewhere that has sufficient authority to get the situation crystal clear. I have argued this elsewhere and would love the CPL to be a licence that could be used properly commercially. We live in hope and cary on regardless!

[poss]

Don't worry about it codeem, I knew you werent... my apologies if it sounded like I was on the defensive. Sometimes the internet can misportray the meaning of our words and the context they were meant in.