Helicopter crash New York City

[John Eacott]

Originally Posted by helispotter

At first, I could see why dragon6172 felt the earlier photo posted here was deceptive and that the mast may not be bent (the remaining pitch control link seen in that photo has that effect). But looking at screen shots from the recovery footage, it sure looks like the mast is bent as The Sultan said. The bending seems to be mainly around and below the height of the swashplate. I am including a few of those shots, marking the direction to front of the fuselage for the portion ripped out of the cabin:

I disagree: hold a straight edge against the image, and the mast above the swashplate is parallel to below the swashplate on both sides, in all photos shown here.

[Dave 92 LSC]

So did the Rotor and trans separate from the frame or with part of the frame it was attached to?

[bryancobb]

Three of the four nodal beams are the newer type with a + shaped cross-section. The last one (aft) is the original type that has a rounded-corner square cross-section and is painted gray. Are they allowed to be mixed on the same aircraft?

[Chock Puller]

What does the condition of the push pull tubes tell us?

One appears to be bent and the other is not but neither are twisted around the mast. What does that show us about the swashplate function?

Does that tell us the swash plate was working as advertised and the mast was turning the same rpm as the head and that at least part of the transmission was turning?


What say you Wrench,

[Babayka]

Interesting to see the tips on one of the blades damaged. There was a bird strike incident in Australia with a similar outcome ( single main rotor blade contact, tail boom severed and full main rotor/transmission separation). Will be curious to see when they find the the tail boom to identify any witness marks.

[wrench1]

Originally Posted by helispotter

One of many questions now is whether both blades were already so fractured / delaminated in the air (and held 'straight' due to centripetal forces from the spinning rotor) or whether that fracturing was caused when they hit the water or during recovery?

I believe the blades broke on water impact or once underwater. They would have not been straight in the videos if broken. Plus have seen OEM blades break from water action once an aircraft rolled over after a successful auto into the water.

Originally Posted by bryancobb

Three of the four nodal beams are the newer type with a + shaped cross-section. The last one (aft) is the original type that has a rounded-corner square cross-section and is painted gray. Are they allowed to be mixed on the same aircraft?

Don't quite follow what you're stating. From the pictures dont see much wrong with the nodal system except for one of arms appears distorted and a flexure appears to be broken which would be understandable in this sequence.

Originally Posted by Chock Puller

Does that tell us the swash plate was working as advertised and the mast was turning the same rpm as the head and that at least part of the transmission was turning?

Nothing stands out. The missing main rotor pitch control link to the head is plausible. The swashplate drive link is intact, and all the big pieces are there. But since the servo web and servos remained with the fuselage I would have expected more damage to the bellcranks mounted on the front of the transmission. The yellow structure under the trans/nodal is the roof beam I mentioned earlier. Not seeing any smoking gun in those pics. To me, if it was a transmission seizure I would have expected to see the housing failed around the internal gear lines or at least the sw/plate drivelink sheared, but nothing. Regardless, still believe the loss of the MR drive/deck is a secondary result to some sort of failure with the tailboom group.

[Sam W]

The four nodal beam focal links attach to the transmission via studs on the top case. A line between the center of these studs defines a plane normally perpendicular to the mast. In the pictures above where you can see these studs a line between them is not perpendicular to the mast.

[MechEngr]

NEW YORK — Federal aviation regulators issued an emergency order Monday grounding the helicopter tour company involved in a deadly New York crash after learning it had fired its operations director minutes after he had agreed to suspend flights during the investigation.

The Federal Aviation Administration said it suspected the firing was retaliation for a safety decision.

“The FAA is taking this action in part because after the company’s director of operations voluntarily shut down flights, he was fired,” acting Administrator Chris Rocheleau said on X.

New York Helicopter Tours' sightseeing helicopter broke apart in midair and plunged into the Hudson River Thursday, killing five tourists from Spain and the pilot.

Rocheleau said the agency also began a comprehensive review of the company’s operations. The review is designed to determine whether an operator complies with regulations and effectively manages safety, and identifies hazards and risks.

The victims included passengers Agustin Escobar, 49, his wife, Mercè Camprubí Montal, 39, and their three children, Victor, 4, Mercedes, 8, and Agustin, 10. The pilot was Seankese Johnson, 36, a U.S. Navy veteran who received his commercial pilot’s license in 2023.

The company's director of operations, Jason Costello, agreed on Sunday to voluntarily halt flights while the crash was being investigated. But 16 minutes after Costello sent an email to the FAA, the company's chief executive officer sent a separate email to the agency saying he did not authorize the halt. The CEO, Michael Roth, also said Costello was no longer an employee, according to the FAA order.

“The immediate firing of the Director of Operations raises serious safety concerns because it appears Mr. Roth retaliated against Mr. Costello for making the safety decision to cease operations during the investigation,” read the document.

Author: Associated Press

[helispotter]

Originally Posted by John Eacott

I disagree: hold a straight edge against the image, and the mast above the swashplate is parallel to below the swashplate on both sides, in all photos shown here.

John: I may be wrong, but compare the orientation of the gearbox down low with the orientation of the mast up high. They seem completely different. It isn't as if there is a bevel gear between those parts. I have added some approximate straight lines through both to try to illustrate:





I can certainly see how different people view this differently since I first thought bent, then straight, but now see it as bent again.

I don't think a bent mast necessarily gives any clues about the cause. Presumably massive loads on the system when it was pulled off the fuselage (for what ever reason), but as with what wrench1 says about the blades, any bent mast could have happened on striking the water (which isn't as 'soft' as we sometimes view it to be).

A few other observations:

(1) Does anyone see a pair of pitch links on the recovered rotor? I only see one.
(2) If a single pitch link failed and was ejected, how would the helicopter respond? Presumably quite unpredictably? (see this AH-1W case: https://nypost.com/2012/05/18/bird-s...investigators/ )
(3) Would a pitch link being ejected have been visible in any of the footage of the break-up sequence? John Kasuku (post #197) spotted two small items potentially parting early in the event, but realised they could simply be video artefacts.
(4) bryancobb at #225 thought he could see a different grey nodal beam. I suspect what he may be seeing is the same 'yellow' components as the others but blurred by the chain wire fence that the ABC News footage appears to have been taken through?
(5) Can anything be gleaned from the trajectory of the helicopter as seen in the footage of it passing behind the skyscraper? To me, it seemed to already be 'projectile motion' from early in the break-up sequence. At a stretch, that might mean collective had been lowered at around that point. I realise the video is through a 'fish eye' lens that would distort (curve) what may otherwise have been a straight and level flight path (at least initially).

[Heligorilla]

Originally Posted by Bell_ringer

That has been stated previously in this topic.
What is impossible to tell from the few pixels contained in these videos and related images, are what caused the extreme yaw.
Was it something in the tail rotor drive system that went, or, was it something in the main gearbox, transmission or mountings that let go first.
That is nothing the currently available videos can answer, beyond confirming a sequence of visible events.

If the heli has boosted pedals which it may have, you better not take your feet off them. The 206A had boosted pedals and was notorious for going full pedal if you took your feet off.

[[email protected]]

So in light of these latest photos, is it feasible that persistent vertical bounce (from the VH blades potentially) over time could weaken the whole roof structure enough for it to start to separate, causing the tail boom collapse and finally completely ripping the whole transmission and decking from the rest of the fuselage?

We know vibration causes cracks - anyone who has seen a station 290 crack on a Sea King will verify that - have they just been putting up with the vibrations not realising the potential for damage?

[Dick Smith]

It's positive news that they have been able to recover so much of the aircraft

I don't think it will be too long before the authorities will be able to give further information on the likely cause of such a major destruction of such a well proven aircraft

[JerryG]

Don't shoot me for mentioning fuel again, because I agree that this was much more violent than any sort of delayed auto or mistaken pedal input. Nevertheless, needing fuel was the last thing the pilot mentioned. So this is just to tidy up a loose end which nobody has mentioned...

If an electric fuel pump fails on a Jetranger then the effect is almost zero. If it fails on a Longranger then a flame-out will result at relatively low fuel states, but long before you would normally expect that to happen. The fuel guage will show you've got plenty (I think around 250lbs but I'm scratching old brain cells here) but it's actually unusable because it's lying in the mid tanks beneath the rear pax and it can no longer be transfered to the main tank and onward to the engine if there has been a fuel pump failure.

[Hot 'n' High]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

...... We know vibration causes cracks - anyone who has seen a station 290 crack on a Sea King will verify that - have they just been putting up with the vibrations not realising the potential for damage?

Thankfully, with the 290, it often told you it was cracked. A crew signed in with a "it flies much more smoothly now after the track and balance!" throw-away which I picked up on. Erm, wot track and balance.......

"Chief, just nip out and look at the 290 quickly will you?".

Upon his return ...... " OK, so that'll be U/S ufn for a frame repair then!".

But here, with this tragic accident, I think there are just so many variables right now. Made me think as I've been on one of those flights way back. It makes me shiver just thinking about what those poor people went through........

[[email protected]]

Upon his return ...... " OK, so that'll be U/S ufn for a frame repair then!".

We had one at Chivenor that had a confirmed crack which you could see clearly - but when the crane lifted the aircraft up by the rotor head to place it on the low loader, the crack opened up enough to fit your hand in!

[John Eacott]

helispotter yes, I see your point. I was looking at the mast above the MGB: nonetheless it is remarkable that the mast has remained not just in one piece but as relatively undamaged from the images that we have.

[Hot 'n' High]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

We had one at Chivenor that had a confirmed crack which you could see clearly - but when the crane lifted the aircraft up by the rotor head to place it on the low loader, the crack opened up enough to fit your hand in!

............. Must admit I didn't bother checking this (yet another) 290 victim after it's crane-off!



Anyway, enough "Frame 290" Thread Drift..........................

[ericferret]

https://assets.publishing.service.go...pdf_500156.pdf

This accident report is for interest as there are some similarities.
Sadly there was nothing conclusive.
I had worked with the flight observer, nice guy.

[hanche]

I see on the NTSB web site that they have recovered the tail rotor system as well. No photos for us to spin new theories from, unless media got some. Recovery operations are finished. I expect we may not hear anything more from them until the preliminary report is out.

[helispotter]

While one of the pitch links is clearly visible (1), I previously thought the other was missing, but I think part of it is visible hanging from its connection point on the swashplate (2). Is that what others also interpret that as? The scissor link from swashplate to mast (3) still seems intact:



I couldn't find a good photo showing typical arrangement of intact pitch links on a Long Ranger, but as a comparison, the following photo shows them on a 206B which is probably similar. Scissor link happens to be facing forward on this photo but of course it rotates with the mast: