Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

Old 11th Dec 2014, 23:32
  #1321 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
Posts: 1,212
Originally Posted by Bluenose 50 View Post
... Although this has long been rumoured, still a sad day. ...
It certainly is.


Originally Posted by Bluenose 50 View Post
... A steep learning curve for the Coastguard
Best climbed with the ears and mind open. Ho hum ...
jimf671 is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2014, 23:03
  #1322 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Age: 71
Posts: 4,118
Further to Bluenose's comment:

Anger at Kinloss rescue-helicopter control centre move to south coast

The coalition Government has announced that the air rescue control centre will be moved from Moray in Scotland to Fareham in Hampshire and combined with the National Maritime Operations Centre.

The Aeronautical Rescue and Co-ordination Centre at Kinloss is responsible for mobilising the RAF, Royal Navy and Coastguard helicopters that are used in mountain rescues throughout Britain.

The move comes as the date for the privatisation of the UK’s search and rescue helicopter service approaches. The ageing Sea Kings used by the RAF and Royal Navy will be replaced by new aircraft under a contract with US company Bristow and will carry the livery of the Coastguard.

The first new helicopters are due to enter service next year.

The Westminster Government said: “The relocation of the ARCC to the National Maritime Operations Centre at Fareham will combine the aeronautical and maritime rescue co-ordination functions, resulting in a better service for those in distress.

“The new UK search and rescue service will use brand-new faster helicopters to cut average response times and providing a more reliable overall service.”

But the Scottish National Party condemned the move, calling it devastating for the staff involved.

Westminster SNP leader and defence spokesman Angus Robertson MP, whose Moray constituency is home to Kinloss Barracks and the rescue centre, said: “This is devastating news for the personnel at Kinloss, for Moray and for Scotland more generally.

“It is the latest in a series of disproportionate MoD cuts to defence bases, capabilities and personnel.

“Two out three Scottish airbases have been cut, the entire maritime patrol fleet has been scrapped and we have the lowest military personnel numbers in Scotland in living memory.

“That the closure announcement is happening in the middle of a life-threatening storm and comes only weeks after the independence referendum tells you much about the cynical approach of the MoD and the UK government.”

The ARCC scrambles the military Sea King helicopters and communicates with the voluntary mountain rescue teams and other civilian search and rescue teams who can request assistance from the aircraft.
John Eacott is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2014, 10:07
  #1323 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 7,486
Let's hope they have a better computer system than NATS at Swanwick
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2014, 11:54
  #1324 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 442
That the closure announcement is happening in the middle of a life-threatening storm and comes only weeks after the independence referendum tells you much about the cynical approach of the MoD and the UK government.
Life threatening storm - it's cold and snowing in Scotland in December, big news.

He doesn't mention how the SNP would have paid for its own SAR service with oil at $60/barrel compared to their calculations of $110. The lovely Miss Sturgeon is also very quiet about this. The ARCC was always going to move.

I hope the HMCG can use the expertise available from Kinloss as they have a lot to live up to.
cyclic is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2014, 13:11
  #1325 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 195
I hope the HMCG can use the expertise available from Kinloss as they have a lot to live up to.
Highly unlikely. To expect personnel to transfer to HMCG and relocate from Moray to the (vastly more expensive) south coast for the salaries that are on offer means this is not a realistic scenario. They'll be on their own post-transition, fingers crossed they'll recruit some high calibre people from the local catchment area.
llamaman is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2014, 14:05
  #1326 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: EGPB/EGPD
Posts: 133
Highly unlikely. To expect personnel to transfer to HMCG and relocate from Moray to the (vastly more expensive) south coast for the salaries that are on offer means this is not a realistic scenario. They'll be on their own post-transition, fingers crossed they'll recruit some high calibre people from the local catchment area.
I beg to disagree. I've heard that there is a handful of staff willing to relocate and continue with civvy ARCC. At least that's what the story was yesterday when I was on the phone to the ARCC.

The ARCC was always going to move.
Exactly, this has come as no surprise to those in the industry. It has been talked about for the past 2 years if not more. Suitable transition plans and staff transitions have been in discussion for at least the last 6 months.

Typical politics and press trying to cast their own views on things and stir everything.
shetlander is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2014, 18:01
  #1327 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: the northern riviera
Age: 52
Posts: 75
Considering the MCA are making a complete "Horlicks" of their own "Future Coastguard" re-organisation (don't expect them to publicly confirm this!) , I worry about the new setup for the ARCC. Especially if the MCA cannot get over their "if it doesn't happen on the South coast it's irrelevant" bias.
edwardspannerhands is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2014, 19:59
  #1328 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
Posts: 1,212
Originally Posted by edwardspannerhands View Post
Considering the MCA are making a complete "Horlicks" of their own "Future Coastguard" re-organisation (don't expect them to publicly confirm this!) , I worry about the new setup for the ARCC. Especially if the MCA cannot get over their "if it doesn't happen on the South coast it's irrelevant" bias.
The Weakest Link.
jimf671 is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2014, 20:20
  #1329 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 442
Time will tell how well they know the Scottish hills. Combined with new crews at Inverness it could make for interesting times for the MRTs.
cyclic is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2014, 20:32
  #1330 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: EGPB/EGPD
Posts: 133
Considering the MCA are making a complete "Horlicks" of their own "Future Coastguard" re-organisation (don't expect them to publicly confirm this!) , I worry about the new setup for the ARCC. Especially if the MCA cannot get over their "if it doesn't happen on the South coast it's irrelevant" bias.
Proof will be in the pudding. However the RAF isn't perfect and the ARCC have made some massive cock ups in their time, not to mention the daily cock ups of forgetting to organise a HLS or call the ambulance to meet the helo.

Not everyone/everything is perfect. That's life.
shetlander is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2014, 21:44
  #1331 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wales
Posts: 456
Not everyone/everything is perfect. That's life.


That'll be ok then - carry on!
Al-bert is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2014, 22:56
  #1332 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: EGPB/EGPD
Posts: 133
That'll be ok then - carry on!
Well carrying on is what we have to do everyday just now.

All this chat about privatisation and ARCC being handed over to civvies, the fact of the matter is there are daily failings with RAF ARCC so handing it over to civvies to make daily failings isn't much of a change.
shetlander is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2014, 23:15
  #1333 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wales
Posts: 456
handing it over to civvies to make daily failings
In spite of or maybe because of my thirty RAF years, 21 in SAR, I have no objection to 'handing over to civvies'. In fact I'm surprised that it didn't happen over twenty years earlier. What would concern me if I were still involved in aviating as opposed to yachting would be handing it over to a Coast Guard who recruit ops staff straight 'off the street' without any aviation (or maritime) background.
Al-bert is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2014, 23:25
  #1334 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
Posts: 1,212
Originally Posted by cyclic View Post
Time will tell how well they know the Scottish hills. Combined with new crews at Inverness it could make for interesting times for the MRTs.
A good portion of the Transition Team are expected to start the contract off at each base as the Managed Transition guys leave the service the day before and start their training. At Inverness, the expected eventual outcome is that we will often be met at the door by the same old faces.

(By 'old' I mean experienced of course!)
jimf671 is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2014, 23:27
  #1335 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
Posts: 1,212
Originally Posted by Al-bert View Post
... What would concern me if I were still involved in aviating as opposed to yachting would be handing it over to a Coast Guard who recruit ops staff straight 'off the street' without any aviation (or maritime) background.

I share your concerns Albert.
jimf671 is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2014, 00:33
  #1336 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: EGPB/EGPD
Posts: 133
Second Bristow UK SAR AW139 arrives in the UK

shetlander is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2014, 06:12
  #1337 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Monde
Posts: 368
A few pages back it was discovered that even a large bodied S92 SAR variant could only seat 9 persons in the cabin. How this is the case is anybody's guess and unlikely to be revealed by the very reticent civsar fraternity. From that though and from other PPRuNe discussions that have been had, we can deduce that to put it mildly, meeting the contract specifications AND carrying all the necessary role and medical equipment for the UK SAR environment is going to be a bit of a squeeze for the AW189.

Therefore it is a racing certainty that the AW139 is not going to be able to meet that minimum cabin carrying capacity requirement. So my question for those that know about these things - who pays the penalty? Bristow every time they put an aircraft on the flight line that is below the minimum capacity specified or Agusta Westland for not producing the 189 on time? How hefty are the penalties likely to be? We may be talking about more than just a few months here.
Vie sans frontieres is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2014, 07:37
  #1338 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Inverness-shire, Ross-shire
Posts: 1,212
Originally Posted by Vie sans frontieres View Post
... ... How hefty are the penalties likely to be? We may be talking about more than just a few months here.

In the contract as published, there are definitions of availability and other contract measurements including aircraft availability at 8.2 but all the interesting numbers and definitions are redacted.

I know there are ppruners who know this stuff in detail but I am not expecting them to blow their cover.


Originally Posted by shetlander View Post
Second Bristow UK SAR AW139 arrives in the UK
Two now, two later.
jimf671 is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2014, 10:06
  #1339 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: France
Age: 74
Posts: 119
As a matter of interest, where would the interested parties here go instead of the AW189, if they had a free hand? The un-writern part in the request for tender was two different types, one to be built in UK and of course the size. It doesn't give much room for manuever.
Sevarg is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2014, 10:33
  #1340 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 7,486
No, but I have heard a rumour that the 189's performance, especially with the higher AUM brought about by the added fuel tank, might not be what people were expecting - could make it interesting in the mountains in Summer

As for the ARCCK, they might not be perfect but for the most part they do a very good job - will we be saying the same thing about the MCA centre if and when it is up and running? Part of the ARCCK's problems have been getting SAR experienced controllers, especially those with helicopter experience - where are the MCA going to get any aviation SAR experience from?
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.