Millionaire helicopter pilots to ferry emergency services...
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
More is More, methinks...........................for superman.
My next door neighbour (about 1/2 mile from me) owns 1000 acres of prime agricultural land and lives in a Grade I stately home which has been in his family for 400 years. He drives around in a Peugeout 306 ('52 model). He is on every conceivable charity and conservation programme and he keeps a very low profile indeed.
A colleague of mine owns a polo school in Surrey. He owns an AS355, A109S and an S76. He is an aristocrat with family ties to royalty. He is an exceptionally pleasant guy who keeps himself to himself and gets on with his patronages.
Yet, for some reason we have a guy here who is crying out for attention. He has devoted an entire web site to himself and what he gets up to for atleast the last 12 years+
Narcissism in motion.
Interestingly on the intro page he declares his love for the environment, yet flies everywhere in his kerosene burner, skies behind his petrol burner and builds concrete houses in prime english countryside?
He also states he is a commercial pilot......eerm, has he got a CPL?
[He missed off the bit where he is also a jedi KNIGHT].
My next door neighbour (about 1/2 mile from me) owns 1000 acres of prime agricultural land and lives in a Grade I stately home which has been in his family for 400 years. He drives around in a Peugeout 306 ('52 model). He is on every conceivable charity and conservation programme and he keeps a very low profile indeed.
A colleague of mine owns a polo school in Surrey. He owns an AS355, A109S and an S76. He is an aristocrat with family ties to royalty. He is an exceptionally pleasant guy who keeps himself to himself and gets on with his patronages.
Yet, for some reason we have a guy here who is crying out for attention. He has devoted an entire web site to himself and what he gets up to for atleast the last 12 years+
Narcissism in motion.
Interestingly on the intro page he declares his love for the environment, yet flies everywhere in his kerosene burner, skies behind his petrol burner and builds concrete houses in prime english countryside?
He also states he is a commercial pilot......eerm, has he got a CPL?
[He missed off the bit where he is also a jedi KNIGHT].
May be silly question - has there been any examination of whether there actually exists a NEED for a RW asset in this context (fire/rescue)? He states in his interview that his proposal will save lives - are there lives currently being lost for lack of a helicopter? When? Where? how often? Would they have died anyway? Or is he talking out his @rse? ....and can therefore be dismissed as a well meaning amateur - one of the deadliest elements in aviation.
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AF,
Not sure there is a direct/complete answer to your question. In the UK there have been one or two trials: one in London and one for Somerset/Avon that I am aware of.
Following the trial, LFB did not pursue any helicopter support. Not quite sure about Somerset/Avon: their trial was recently completed. I heard a rumour that this might be followed by a further 12 month trial.
There is some use of heles in UK forest fires, but much less than other parts of the world. I think they are mainly contracted by the forest owners (e.g. the Forestry Commission)
From time to time a Fire Service makes use of police heles: usually (in my experience) limited to things like FLIR downlink which can be fascinating (although I don't know how valuable).
Is there a track record in other parts?
Not sure there is a direct/complete answer to your question. In the UK there have been one or two trials: one in London and one for Somerset/Avon that I am aware of.
Following the trial, LFB did not pursue any helicopter support. Not quite sure about Somerset/Avon: their trial was recently completed. I heard a rumour that this might be followed by a further 12 month trial.
There is some use of heles in UK forest fires, but much less than other parts of the world. I think they are mainly contracted by the forest owners (e.g. the Forestry Commission)
From time to time a Fire Service makes use of police heles: usually (in my experience) limited to things like FLIR downlink which can be fascinating (although I don't know how valuable).
Is there a track record in other parts?
If this attitude was in place for the last 500 years we would all be in rowing boats.
Did Percy Pilcher and the Wright Brothers know about the Boeing 747 when they pushed off into the ether supported by stick and string? Of course not. It was real wing and a prayer with no real end target other than striving to achieve. And, heaven forbid, they self promoted and so we know about them.
This whole project may fall flat on its face but its private money and he is willing to give it a spin. OK so he maybe self promoting, he may be delusional [but I doubt it] but at least he is doing what he apparently believes in for the public good. The USA airborne emergency services is riddled with such people and in many States the locals only get their police and fire air support from such 'gifts' of time and effort - perhaps he thinks he is a Yank?
There are fire helicopters across the world and they all do different jobs, some do it better than others and perhaps a 500 is way down the food chain but some are in use and there are no signs that they are withdrawing them because some Ppruners think they are rubbish......
The wider industry has seen fit to pump lots of money into the concept of a UK fire helicopter over 20 years so they think there is a prize out there waiting to be plucked some day. The main problems have been a lack of visionary senior fire officers, spare cash and, mainly the pressure of the fire unions to say no to each and every project so far.
There are plenty of instances in police aviation where delusional, self promoting, people led to the creation of less than viable air units that grew into something worthwhile and elsewhere on Pprune there is a big argument about how NPAS is wrecking that very model.
So what wrong has this man actually done?
Did Percy Pilcher and the Wright Brothers know about the Boeing 747 when they pushed off into the ether supported by stick and string? Of course not. It was real wing and a prayer with no real end target other than striving to achieve. And, heaven forbid, they self promoted and so we know about them.
This whole project may fall flat on its face but its private money and he is willing to give it a spin. OK so he maybe self promoting, he may be delusional [but I doubt it] but at least he is doing what he apparently believes in for the public good. The USA airborne emergency services is riddled with such people and in many States the locals only get their police and fire air support from such 'gifts' of time and effort - perhaps he thinks he is a Yank?
There are fire helicopters across the world and they all do different jobs, some do it better than others and perhaps a 500 is way down the food chain but some are in use and there are no signs that they are withdrawing them because some Ppruners think they are rubbish......
The wider industry has seen fit to pump lots of money into the concept of a UK fire helicopter over 20 years so they think there is a prize out there waiting to be plucked some day. The main problems have been a lack of visionary senior fire officers, spare cash and, mainly the pressure of the fire unions to say no to each and every project so far.
There are plenty of instances in police aviation where delusional, self promoting, people led to the creation of less than viable air units that grew into something worthwhile and elsewhere on Pprune there is a big argument about how NPAS is wrecking that very model.
So what wrong has this man actually done?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Did Percy Pilcher and the Wright Brothers know about the Boeing 747 when they pushed off into the ether supported by stick and string? Of course not. It was real wing and a prayer with no real end target other than striving to achieve. And, heaven forbid, they self promoted and so we know about them.
The Wright Brothers learnt from the gliding experiences and designs of Otto Lilienthal who died in a glider crash, and don't forget that the first person to die in a powered airplane crash was a passenger of a plane piloted by Orville, Lt. Thomas Selfridge.
I don't think this thread is having a go at anyones self promotion, it's highlighting that issues will present themselves along the way, where lives may be put at risk. In JP's video, he says that if he saves one life it will all be worth it, I'm thinking that if this trial doesn't go ahead, potentially there's that life saved.
PANews
Please take a few minutes to read the earlier pages of this thread. You are at danger of repetition
This chap is going to push the safety envelope and will not be able to respond reliably. The concept of helicopters in the fire role in the UK has been discussed. They have no benefit and may well cause harm by diverting emergency service resources.
Please do not give him encouragement.
Please take a few minutes to read the earlier pages of this thread. You are at danger of repetition
This chap is going to push the safety envelope and will not be able to respond reliably. The concept of helicopters in the fire role in the UK has been discussed. They have no benefit and may well cause harm by diverting emergency service resources.
Please do not give him encouragement.
Well said PA News....the world is full of arm chair critics and at least Paxton is trying to do something positive.
I have no doubt the powers will rein him in if he takes undue risk and we need volunteers as auxiliaries to our hard pressed public sevices .Are some of the critics also those who wont sweep the pavement free of snow or clear drains of flood water for 'elf and safety reasons too??
I have no doubt the powers will rein him in if he takes undue risk and we need volunteers as auxiliaries to our hard pressed public sevices .Are some of the critics also those who wont sweep the pavement free of snow or clear drains of flood water for 'elf and safety reasons too??
Walts, wannabe's and feckin eejits
Without a doubt.
But you flying gentlemen got your mounts thanks to those very idiots. Their names are pretty well known.... Harry Hawker, Juan de Cierva .... As Heli 1 suggests, if its too dangerous the CAA will do something about it.
I recall the screaming from industry across the water when the DoD dumped 3,000 old Vietnam era IH-1, OH-58 and OH-6 on the US market ten years ago about how much damage it would do to jobs of aviators, manufacturers and probably global warming........ They were wrong and most of the 3,000 were rubbish anyway, those that worked gave professional pilots jobs and the industry work in doing up the old and replacing them with new machines when they proved their worth.
Its a good job they did not just scrap them..... a few of the OH-58s are being rebuilt for Afghanistan...
If it is too expensive to do properly maybe this volunteer trial will prove a need that will get jobs for professional pilots. If it doesn't all well and good.
Without a doubt.
But you flying gentlemen got your mounts thanks to those very idiots. Their names are pretty well known.... Harry Hawker, Juan de Cierva .... As Heli 1 suggests, if its too dangerous the CAA will do something about it.
I recall the screaming from industry across the water when the DoD dumped 3,000 old Vietnam era IH-1, OH-58 and OH-6 on the US market ten years ago about how much damage it would do to jobs of aviators, manufacturers and probably global warming........ They were wrong and most of the 3,000 were rubbish anyway, those that worked gave professional pilots jobs and the industry work in doing up the old and replacing them with new machines when they proved their worth.
Its a good job they did not just scrap them..... a few of the OH-58s are being rebuilt for Afghanistan...
If it is too expensive to do properly maybe this volunteer trial will prove a need that will get jobs for professional pilots. If it doesn't all well and good.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
You just don't get it do you PA!
Quote as many names from the past as you like. You may note that your 2 latest names - Harry Hawker & Juan de Cierva - both died in aircraft crashes.
I will expand on my last post;
"What you fail to realise is that this thread is trying to prevent JP ending up the same way of Percy", Harry and Juan.
Quote as many names from the past as you like. You may note that your 2 latest names - Harry Hawker & Juan de Cierva - both died in aircraft crashes.
I will expand on my last post;
"What you fail to realise is that this thread is trying to prevent JP ending up the same way of Percy", Harry and Juan.
I'm struck by the number of current and ex helicopter pilots/crew who have in many cases years of experience in SAR, police, military fields who think this is a BAD idea (and unworkable) compared with the amateur pilots and non aircrew who see it as a good and workable idea. Strange that isn't it? 
Last edited by Al-bert; 13th Jan 2013 at 20:23.
I'm struck by the number of current and ex helicopter pilots/crew who have in many cases years of experience in SAR, police, military fields who think this is a BAD idea (and unworkable) compared with the amateur pilots and non aircrew who see it as a good and workable idea. Strange that isn't it?
Where JP's has the skills or not, whether his ideas are workable or not, whether there is a need or not, I still admire his `have-a-go` aspirations, even if they are the product of his ego. It may well be that they will be crushed by legislation, common sense, or some other reason, but I don't understand the rationale behind attacking him.
Last edited by toptobottom; 13th Jan 2013 at 20:56. Reason: teepos
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I'm still wondering who will insure the operation.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
It may well be that they will be crushed by legislation, common sense, or some other reason, but I don't understand the rationale behind attacking him.
Death 
Where does that bit come in? Wouldn't he be bound to comply with legislation just like anyone else doing a similar role and so face the same risks as anyone else? Why should his aspirations be crushed by death?!
Where does that bit come in? Wouldn't he be bound to comply with legislation just like anyone else doing a similar role and so face the same risks as anyone else? Why should his aspirations be crushed by death?!