Millionaire helicopter pilots to ferry emergency services...
but I don't understand the rationale behind attacking him
Furthermore, I can spot a Walt with a penchant for 'Rescue Badges' from miles away. I have met rather a lot of them in my 22 years flying SAR helos in cooperation with police, fire, ambulance, coastguard and mountain rescue. A one man Hughes 500 operation? Perhaps he should offer his services to the SAS too, for when the fire and rescue work is a bit slack?
Al
You are very patient
There are some of us who know what pressures are put on the rescue services to get a job done and how a lot of the pressure is generated by us the people who do the job. We pressure ourselves because we have been trained to "save" peoples lives and are generally called as a last resort when other "cheaper" methods have either been tried or are deemed not to be viable from the start.
The big difference between us and Walt's is that we have been trained to resit these pressures and brought up in an environment where our experience allows us to make safe and rational decisions under the extreme pressure of there being someone's life in danger.
I can understand someone wanting to offer their services for the good of the community but when they start inventing and wearing badges on flying suits one begins to worry that they may not understand the pressures that rescue crews work under and go one step too far with tragic consequences
HF
You are very patient
There are some of us who know what pressures are put on the rescue services to get a job done and how a lot of the pressure is generated by us the people who do the job. We pressure ourselves because we have been trained to "save" peoples lives and are generally called as a last resort when other "cheaper" methods have either been tried or are deemed not to be viable from the start.The big difference between us and Walt's is that we have been trained to resit these pressures and brought up in an environment where our experience allows us to make safe and rational decisions under the extreme pressure of there being someone's life in danger.
I can understand someone wanting to offer their services for the good of the community but when they start inventing and wearing badges on flying suits one begins to worry that they may not understand the pressures that rescue crews work under and go one step too far with tragic consequences
HF
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
ttb
He can fit through all the hoops and most certainly will, but as this thread (and many others) has highlighted, put a succesful businessman in a scenario where his reputation is on the line and he is likely to do anything to make sure that the venture succeeds rather than 'lose face'.
ttb, some of us don't want to revisit this thread in the future, after reading a report, and think 'that lot rings a bell or two'!
Death 
Where does that bit come in? Wouldn't he be bound to comply with legislation just like anyone else doing a similar role and so face the same risks as anyone else? Why should his aspirations be crushed by death?!
Where does that bit come in? Wouldn't he be bound to comply with legislation just like anyone else doing a similar role and so face the same risks as anyone else? Why should his aspirations be crushed by death?!
ttb, some of us don't want to revisit this thread in the future, after reading a report, and think 'that lot rings a bell or two'!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
As far as the insurance question goes;
Thunderbirds are go
3 days a week for a year; 3x52= 156
How's that going to work?
Thunderbirds are go
...will be “on-call” three days a week initially for Wiltshire Fire Service during a one-year trial...
He has taken out insurance cover to handle up to 40 callouts a year.
He has taken out insurance cover to handle up to 40 callouts a year.
How's that going to work?
Patient? Moi?
Silsoe: 
Methinks Egotists want the glory but not the pain.
Business meetings
Dinner dances
Skiing
Cocktail parties
Bank manager
Maintenance
Holidays
Bad weather
Fuel shortages
Over the limit
Flying overalls not ironed
Sunday mornings
Golf
Only a few reasons why he is unavailable to help the fire department out
Methinks Egotists want the glory but not the pain.
Business meetings
Dinner dances
Skiing
Cocktail parties
Bank manager
Maintenance
Holidays
Bad weather
Fuel shortages
Over the limit
Flying overalls not ironed
Sunday mornings
Golf
Only a few reasons why he is unavailable to help the fire department out
Oh dear, Al-bert - another anorak feeling now's the time to boast about his badge collection and a expose the chip on his shoulder with 'successful businessmen'.
HF - I accept your point, but don't you think St. John Ambulance workers face pressure when 'saving a life'. Don't you think Paxton will have had more than his fair share of pressure building his empire? Do you know Paxton doesn't work for St. John Ambulance already?
SS
I'm not sure that's true (or even why you too have such a jaundiced view of 'successful businessmen', but even if it was, isn't that a reason to believe he would ensure it was more likely to be of some benefit?
TC - what on earth are you talking about now? Or is this your "chippy, short-arse" paranoia manifesting itself again? Success (or wealth as you see it) doesn't necessarily mean egotist. Do you really resent wealth that much?
I'm not suggesting that Paxton's idea is good or bad, but it seems you guys are intent on mocking the concept simply on the basis that he's a `successful businessman', neither knowing him and his qualifications, nor the steps he and his advisors have taken to convert the concept into reality.
Do you think Community Support Officers are of no value? Are St. John Ambulance workers a liability? Have you all written to the editor of The Sun to complain about Richard Branson's space rocket?!
HF - I accept your point, but don't you think St. John Ambulance workers face pressure when 'saving a life'. Don't you think Paxton will have had more than his fair share of pressure building his empire? Do you know Paxton doesn't work for St. John Ambulance already?
SS
put a succesful businessman in a scenario where his reputation is on the line and he is likely to do anything to make sure that the venture succeeds rather than 'lose face'
TC - what on earth are you talking about now? Or is this your "chippy, short-arse" paranoia manifesting itself again? Success (or wealth as you see it) doesn't necessarily mean egotist. Do you really resent wealth that much?
I'm not suggesting that Paxton's idea is good or bad, but it seems you guys are intent on mocking the concept simply on the basis that he's a `successful businessman', neither knowing him and his qualifications, nor the steps he and his advisors have taken to convert the concept into reality.
Do you think Community Support Officers are of no value? Are St. John Ambulance workers a liability? Have you all written to the editor of The Sun to complain about Richard Branson's space rocket?!
Anorak, suits me sir?
I get it topbottom, your a successful businessman right? I've nothing against successful businessmen btw, just people who haven't a clue what they're talking about. I should have said 'a toy helicopter flown by a very keen and well intentioned part time amateur pilot who is only available when it suits him and when it doesn't conflict with more pressing business or social engagements'.
Perhaps you should change your name to frontbottom, seems more appropriate for you?
Perhaps you should change your name to frontbottom, seems more appropriate for you?
Last edited by Al-bert; 13th Jan 2013 at 23:47.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Please correct me if I'm wrong ttb, but I didn't think that Richard Branson was piloting any space rockets, I was under the impression that as management, he gave that job to a couple of ex RAF & USAF Test Pilots.
Besides;
Overview – Safety | Virgin Galactic
Besides;
Overview – Safety | Virgin Galactic
Our excitement in 2002 on discovering Burt Rutan's plans for SpaceShipOne focused on a number of design features which we believed in their own right could make the vehicles many thousands of times safer than any manned space craft of the past. Overlay that with Virgin's experience in transportation operations and there potentially existed a unique opportunity to transform levels of safety from day one; a pre-requisite for any responsible operator and in particular for Virgin Galactic.
Al-Bert
Question for you, your daughter is in an RTA, The Brigade has no cutting tools the only way is getting them is Mr Paxton's helicopter so presumably you would say NO
At the same time presumably you would get rid of virtually all Mountain Rescue Teams, St John's ambulance services, RNLI and loads of other volunteering services as they are not staffed by full time professionals
Paxton is no fool in either aviation or business. Yes there are pressures to do jobs but if he stays within the normal aiviation rules ( 1500m viz etc etc) what is the problem where there is the possibility of saving life.
I presume you would be on the Health and Safety side of life where like the 2 officers who wouldnt go into the water to save some drowning people last year as they werent trained in water rescue. I ersonally saved someone from drowning 150m off a beach, was I trained in surf rescue - no, was I trained in 1st aid yes but I wasnt prepared to watch someone drown without at least trying. That person I saved happened to be a surgeon so who knows how many lives he has since saved.
I know all you highly experienced professional pilots think the idea is crap, do you lot have any better ideas or put your money where your mouth is ? Do you even know what the limitations of the service is ? Do you know the guy ? Do you know is piloting ability ? Any of you contacted him to give him your advice ( gave TC his e mail address in a PM ages ago) ? If the answer to any of the above is yes then my apologies
Yes I have reservations about what he is offering but given some clear SOP's I dont see why it should not go ahead on a trial basis.
Back to my trench now
Question for you, your daughter is in an RTA, The Brigade has no cutting tools the only way is getting them is Mr Paxton's helicopter so presumably you would say NO
At the same time presumably you would get rid of virtually all Mountain Rescue Teams, St John's ambulance services, RNLI and loads of other volunteering services as they are not staffed by full time professionals
Paxton is no fool in either aviation or business. Yes there are pressures to do jobs but if he stays within the normal aiviation rules ( 1500m viz etc etc) what is the problem where there is the possibility of saving life.
I presume you would be on the Health and Safety side of life where like the 2 officers who wouldnt go into the water to save some drowning people last year as they werent trained in water rescue. I ersonally saved someone from drowning 150m off a beach, was I trained in surf rescue - no, was I trained in 1st aid yes but I wasnt prepared to watch someone drown without at least trying. That person I saved happened to be a surgeon so who knows how many lives he has since saved.
I know all you highly experienced professional pilots think the idea is crap, do you lot have any better ideas or put your money where your mouth is ? Do you even know what the limitations of the service is ? Do you know the guy ? Do you know is piloting ability ? Any of you contacted him to give him your advice ( gave TC his e mail address in a PM ages ago) ? If the answer to any of the above is yes then my apologies
Yes I have reservations about what he is offering but given some clear SOP's I dont see why it should not go ahead on a trial basis.
Back to my trench now
Hughes - your argument is flawed because the difference between Paxton and the Mountain Rescue Teams, St John's ambulance services, RNLI etc is training, training and more training.
None of those organisations would dream of just giving their volunteers a pretty badge to wear and letting them loose.
None of those organisations would dream of just giving their volunteers a pretty badge to wear and letting them loose.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
H500,
With respect, IMHO there is a vast difference between;
Mountain Rescue Teams -
Mountain Rescue England and Wales | History
RNLI -
History
St John's ambulance services -
What we do - St John Ambulance
...and a millionaire that is using his helicopter as an emergency service with no experience whatsoever in emergency service operations or any of the tasks about to be trialled.
I don't think this thread has anything to do with that train of thought. To put it simply, he has already proved himself to be a liability when the weather is dodgy and I think most of us 'professionals' for some strange reason, can foresee the hazards (cheese slices) that the 'non professionals' appear not to be able to.
(I don't like using the terms professional and non-proffesional, but it seems that others do)
All that aside, please explain why he has only sought insurance for 40 callouts.
With respect, IMHO there is a vast difference between;
Mountain Rescue Teams -
1903 The 'Scafell Disaster' (1903)was a pivotal moment in mountain rescue history as a shocked climbing fraternity began to consider the increasing incidence of mountain accidents and the lack of rescue resources available. Within a year, rudimentary first aid and mountain rescue equipment began to appear in key areas. But it was an accident in 1928, in the Peak District, and the extreme difficulties encountered by rescuers, which sparked the eventual formation of the Mountain Rescue Committee.
RNLI -
Saving lives at sea since 1824
The RNLI has saved more than 139,000 lives since its foundation in 1824 as the National Institution for the Preservation of Life from Shipwreck. The name was changed to the Royal National Lifeboat Institution in 1854, and cork lifejackets were first issued to crew members in the same year.
The 20th century saw the RNLI continue to save lives at sea through two world wars. Lifeboats moved from sail and oar power to petrol and diesel, and the first women joined their crews.
The RNLI has saved more than 139,000 lives since its foundation in 1824 as the National Institution for the Preservation of Life from Shipwreck. The name was changed to the Royal National Lifeboat Institution in 1854, and cork lifejackets were first issued to crew members in the same year.
The 20th century saw the RNLI continue to save lives at sea through two world wars. Lifeboats moved from sail and oar power to petrol and diesel, and the first women joined their crews.
St John's ambulance services -
St John Ambulance teaches people first aid – about 800,000 last year alone – so that they can be the difference between a life lost and a life saved.
Thousands of the people we trained went on to offer their skills and time to be the difference right in the heart of their community, as St John Ambulance volunteers – to provide first aid at public events, to be Community First Responders who attend emergency calls and provide care until the ambulance arrives, to provide patient transport, or as back up to local ambulance services during local major emergencies.
Thousands of the people we trained went on to offer their skills and time to be the difference right in the heart of their community, as St John Ambulance volunteers – to provide first aid at public events, to be Community First Responders who attend emergency calls and provide care until the ambulance arrives, to provide patient transport, or as back up to local ambulance services during local major emergencies.
...and a millionaire that is using his helicopter as an emergency service with no experience whatsoever in emergency service operations or any of the tasks about to be trialled.
I know all you highly experienced professional pilots think the idea is crap,
(I don't like using the terms professional and non-proffesional, but it seems that others do)
All that aside, please explain why he has only sought insurance for 40 callouts.
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Silsoe's thunderbird link dated nov 12 states that the trial is already underway. H500 can you confirm that this is the case and if so perhaps report back on how many missions he has been called for, how many he has responded to & what the outcomes have been. That way we might start getting some facts to support one or other side of the argument rather than simple name calling, rumour and speculation....
Anybody would think this is a rumour site.....
SW
Anybody would think this is a rumour site.....
SW
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
H500;
What a ridiculous statement, and a subject that has already been covered here. To remind you, JP and his cutting equipment pod will in fact take longer to get to an incident than a ground vehicle.
Standard Fire Engine
Question for you, your daughter is in an RTA, The Brigade has no cutting tools the only way is getting them is Mr Paxton's helicopter so presumably you would say NO
Wiltshire Fire & Rescue Service use this as their standard front line fire engine, therefore it is normally the first appliance to arrive at an incident. Due to this fact it was designed to deliver the maximum number of firefighters to an incident in the shortest time, with the versatility to be able to cope with the variety of incidents that make up modern day firefighting. With this in mind, it is not surprising to find that the Dennis Sabre is the fastest appliance in the FRS's fleet, able to reach any urban area within 10 minutes and any rural area within 20 minutes.
.
EQUIPMENT ON APPLIANCE
.
.
.
• Hydraulic rescue equipment for use at Road Traffic Accidents (this would include spreaders/cutters etc).
.
EQUIPMENT ON APPLIANCE
.
.
.
• Hydraulic rescue equipment for use at Road Traffic Accidents (this would include spreaders/cutters etc).
toptobottom
I can't tell from your profile if you are a pilot but I suspect you may not be as the quoted statement is not a true comparison of pressure that can kill you
A pressurized pilot can kill himself and his crew quite easily by making the wrong decision - usually related to weather and press-on-itis.
I have yet to hear of a businessman accidentally killing himself and his secretary due to the pressure he is under in his business.
HF
HF - I accept your point, but don't you think St. John Ambulance workers face pressure when 'saving a life'. Don't you think Paxton will have had more than his fair share of pressure building his empire? Do you know Paxton doesn't work for St. John Ambulance already?
A pressurized pilot can kill himself and his crew quite easily by making the wrong decision - usually related to weather and press-on-itis.
I have yet to hear of a businessman accidentally killing himself and his secretary due to the pressure he is under in his business.
HF
Sorry Hughes500 you clearly do not have the slightest idea what rescue work involves in aviation terms. As Crab points out, training, training and more training is what distinguishes all the volunteer rescue organisations with whom I have worked - and have been on occasions a part of. That is why I entered MY chosen career before I retired to become a 'business man'. SAR helo flying is not a hobby and a final point - 1500m viz? It's only going to be good weather too?
I have yet to hear of a businessman accidentally killing himself and his secretary due to the pressure he is under in his business
it's usually deliberate from what I have read, and confined to self and family.
TTB: [Albert's alter ego (frontbottom) is much more fitting - don't you think? Certainly suits you: Everytime I picture you now, I see a frontbottom on your shoulders 
].
You've certainly declared your colours haven't you? What automatically makes you think I have it in for 'rich people' (What is the definition of rich anyway, because if it is someone with 7 digits (and I don't mean fingers, before you 'chip' in) in their personal inventory, I declare myself well and truly rich
).
Again - for the hard of reading, I will declare my position:
For me, TTB, it's all about SOME people's attitude (see my other thread "more is....more"). It's about the fact that SOME people don't consider normality/rules/regs to apply to them. They see the world through their bespectacled perspectives. It appears there is a propensity for RICH to ingratiate themselves this way. Now did you read that correctly or do you want me to wait here while I wait for you to read it again?
Perhaps the word that could be used is - arrogant, or narcissistic. You choose.
Paxman (love it) isn't so much a "cock" (as Capt Slow from Top Gear would say) because he's rich. He's a "cock" because he genuinely believes, as someone who is technically an amateur with a PPL, with absolutely NO training whatsoever, he can contribute to a professional life saving organisation on his (40 day) terms This is what makes him stand out. Now a NON rich person wouldn't be in a position to put such ideas forward because he wouldn't have the wherewithall to do it - hence ATTITUDE, ttb, OK? Get it?
Hughes500: You scare me. You really scare me - Here's me thinking you are a switched on helo instructor and then you come up with the most ridiculous scenario possible (Almost child like response). Firstly it's an RTC (RTA's went out 12 years ago). Do you think (a) firecrew would turn up to an RTC without fire cutting equipment? and (b) even if they did forget???????? Paxman would then be called up at the rush and asked to pop down to the nearest fire depot and pick up the cutting kit? Perleeeeeeeeze. Your last post was pathetic in the extreme - you must surely have been drinking when you wrote that. Or your mum wrote it!
[And do you think I am going to cold e-mail Jerrry paxman (love it) and tell him he's a "cock" and Hughes'y told me to call him
]
For everyone reading this thread - this is not about MONEY'd people. It is about certain individuals attitudes to life. And how they go about getting things done. Like I said in the other thread - because they are successful in one walk of life, they automatically think the same formula works elsewhere.
]. You've certainly declared your colours haven't you? What automatically makes you think I have it in for 'rich people' (What is the definition of rich anyway, because if it is someone with 7 digits (and I don't mean fingers, before you 'chip' in) in their personal inventory, I declare myself well and truly rich
). Again - for the hard of reading, I will declare my position:
For me, TTB, it's all about SOME people's attitude (see my other thread "more is....more"). It's about the fact that SOME people don't consider normality/rules/regs to apply to them. They see the world through their bespectacled perspectives. It appears there is a propensity for RICH to ingratiate themselves this way. Now did you read that correctly or do you want me to wait here while I wait for you to read it again?
Perhaps the word that could be used is - arrogant, or narcissistic. You choose.
Paxman (love it) isn't so much a "cock" (as Capt Slow from Top Gear would say) because he's rich. He's a "cock" because he genuinely believes, as someone who is technically an amateur with a PPL, with absolutely NO training whatsoever, he can contribute to a professional life saving organisation on his (40 day) terms
This is what makes him stand out. Now a NON rich person wouldn't be in a position to put such ideas forward because he wouldn't have the wherewithall to do it - hence ATTITUDE, ttb, OK? Get it?Hughes500: You scare me. You really scare me - Here's me thinking you are a switched on helo instructor and then you come up with the most ridiculous scenario possible (Almost child like response). Firstly it's an RTC (RTA's went out 12 years ago). Do you think (a) firecrew would turn up to an RTC without fire cutting equipment? and (b) even if they did forget???????? Paxman would then be called up at the rush and asked to pop down to the nearest fire depot and pick up the cutting kit? Perleeeeeeeeze. Your last post was pathetic in the extreme - you must surely have been drinking when you wrote that. Or your mum wrote it!
[And do you think I am going to cold e-mail Jerrry paxman (love it) and tell him he's a "cock" and Hughes'y told me to call him
]For everyone reading this thread - this is not about MONEY'd people. It is about certain individuals attitudes to life. And how they go about getting things done. Like I said in the other thread - because they are successful in one walk of life, they automatically think the same formula works elsewhere.
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Tail rotor shaft joint
"It is about certain individuals attitudes to life. And how they go about getting things done. Like I said in the other thread - because they are successful in one walk of life, they automatically think the same formula works elsewhere".
How very true !!!!!!! Half of them on here can,t /won,t see that.
"It is about certain individuals attitudes to life. And how they go about getting things done. Like I said in the other thread - because they are successful in one walk of life, they automatically think the same formula works elsewhere".
How very true !!!!!!!
Half of them on here can,t /won,t see that.
The arrogance in this thread is incredible.
Personally couldn't care less if this guy or the next guy wants to prance around in a flight suit, get his name in the newspaper whatever, dine out on his self promotion.
In the end if he operates his machine inline with everyone else doing the same whats the issue?
Who the **** are people here to claim he does or does not have the skills to fly? I think some people need to have a word with themselves, its flying a helicopter not finding a cure for cancer. Whilst not taking aviation lightly I think you might find that more than one or two have managed to fly these things without piling in.
Oddly these naysayers don't seem quiet so confident or vocal in their criticism with some accidents that have actually happened....
Personally couldn't care less if this guy or the next guy wants to prance around in a flight suit, get his name in the newspaper whatever, dine out on his self promotion.
In the end if he operates his machine inline with everyone else doing the same whats the issue?
Who the **** are people here to claim he does or does not have the skills to fly? I think some people need to have a word with themselves, its flying a helicopter not finding a cure for cancer. Whilst not taking aviation lightly I think you might find that more than one or two have managed to fly these things without piling in.
Oddly these naysayers don't seem quiet so confident or vocal in their criticism with some accidents that have actually happened....