Millionaire helicopter pilots to ferry emergency services...
Pitts;
post 290
Quote:
Personally I'd say this mil pilot was the biggest ego I've ever read about.
post 297
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I have no idea the history of this pilot
Please explain your first comment ref Capt.Fornassi who, may I remind you, was an instructor and probably not as you put just 'having a go and seeing how it works out'!
post 290
Quote:
Personally I'd say this mil pilot was the biggest ego I've ever read about.
post 297
Quote:
I have no idea the history of this pilot
Please explain your first comment ref Capt.Fornassi who, may I remind you, was an instructor and probably not as you put just 'having a go and seeing how it works out'!
My comment is in relation to the recent threads where we talk about pilots like the one in this thread and the two fatal accidents in Gazelles.
So now you ask if this NH90 pilot has a history of poor airmanship and I don't know. However this display pilot has given himself - as is clearly seen from the footage on YouTube - no margin. Which, in my opinion is an ego thing. Why else do you not give yourself another 200m of height, whatever?? There is just no excuse for it. Its an airshow, for fun with people who are going to be impressed regardless of the -200/300m.
Quite aside from the regard for others on board the helicopter and the display area over people in small watercraft. Planning seems to be lacking, especially when you look at the whole of the display which is actually has very few elements on the vertical line.
As I said the accident report would be an interesting read if anyone has it.
Pittsextra: try hard to keep it together bud. Stick with the subject matter and stop wandering off somewhere bizarre which has absolutely no bearing on this thread.....you can do it...
Reminder: Look into my eyes....look into my eyes........................ you are in a thread discussing untrained, under qualified, wealthy business man trying to fly as a fully paid up emergency services pilot.
You are not in a thread dealing with judgement during an air display???
Stay focussed....look into my eyes.
Reminder: Look into my eyes....look into my eyes........................ you are in a thread discussing untrained, under qualified, wealthy business man trying to fly as a fully paid up emergency services pilot.
You are not in a thread dealing with judgement during an air display???
Stay focussed....look into my eyes.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
...and with that large post of yours in mind, take a look at Dennis Kenyons crash and are you telling him the same things?
Display flying?
Pittsextra - if it's display flying you want to discuss I'm happy to discuss it, perhaps in a seperate thread? I was a helicopter display pilot for a good number of years on both Wessex and Sea King - (oh heck, TTB will be along any minute to call me an anorak!). As TC pointed out lets avoid thread creep.
ps I had the misfortune to sit, rotors turning awaiting departure following my display, on a refuelling spot at RAF Bentwaters while the Frecce Tricolari beat sh1t out of the field in August '88 - unsurprisingly to me they crashed in spectacular fashion the following week at Ramstein. So no, I am under no illusions regarding mil ego's or competance.
ps I had the misfortune to sit, rotors turning awaiting departure following my display, on a refuelling spot at RAF Bentwaters while the Frecce Tricolari beat sh1t out of the field in August '88 - unsurprisingly to me they crashed in spectacular fashion the following week at Ramstein. So no, I am under no illusions regarding mil ego's or competance.
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Has JP been sponsoring Police Aviation News?!...
http://www.policeaviationnews.com/Ac...2012PANews.pdf
EDITORIAL
Regularly within these pages are stories that illustrate some of the yawning differences that can be seen in the industry—of differing values and cultures.
In the UK one man stepped forwards to volunteer his time and resources to help out one local fire department with a helicopter he owns. He is a man with the financial resources to comfortable undertake the limited degree of aid he was offering and on the face of it he was able to display the ability and significant flight hours as well. On a well known professional pilots Internet forum he was vilified for making the offer and many of them, mainly those who did not know him, made negative assumptions about his capabilities as a pilot. Similar negative attitudes can be seen in relation to many modern offers to volunteer in the Kingdom and that includes the fliers of Sky Watch CAP – it is perhaps fortunate that the lifeboats service [RNLI] was set up in more understanding Victorian times or perhaps half the nation would have drowned in the meantime.
Contrast that with the page 18 story from the USA where such public service is common and volunteering for the public good is accepted as the only possible option for many hard pressed local US communities.
Strangely the story from Montana was quoted in the thread that so vilified one Englishman’s offer to provide public service without cost – but to no avail his offer continued to be viewed with suspicion and denigrated just as that of most volunteers.
I do not know which community of fliers has right on its side but I do know which I respect most!
A Happy and prosperous New Year to you all!
Bryn Elliott
Sorry, Bryn but I must respectfully disagree. Speculation as to the chap's motivation aside, we're missing two crucial elements here: selection and training. Having so many 'holes in the cheese' lined up before a rotor blade even turns is worrying and must surely ring some alarm bells.
Cheers,
135
http://www.policeaviationnews.com/Ac...2012PANews.pdf
EDITORIAL
Regularly within these pages are stories that illustrate some of the yawning differences that can be seen in the industry—of differing values and cultures.
In the UK one man stepped forwards to volunteer his time and resources to help out one local fire department with a helicopter he owns. He is a man with the financial resources to comfortable undertake the limited degree of aid he was offering and on the face of it he was able to display the ability and significant flight hours as well. On a well known professional pilots Internet forum he was vilified for making the offer and many of them, mainly those who did not know him, made negative assumptions about his capabilities as a pilot. Similar negative attitudes can be seen in relation to many modern offers to volunteer in the Kingdom and that includes the fliers of Sky Watch CAP – it is perhaps fortunate that the lifeboats service [RNLI] was set up in more understanding Victorian times or perhaps half the nation would have drowned in the meantime.
Contrast that with the page 18 story from the USA where such public service is common and volunteering for the public good is accepted as the only possible option for many hard pressed local US communities.
Strangely the story from Montana was quoted in the thread that so vilified one Englishman’s offer to provide public service without cost – but to no avail his offer continued to be viewed with suspicion and denigrated just as that of most volunteers.
I do not know which community of fliers has right on its side but I do know which I respect most!
A Happy and prosperous New Year to you all!
Bryn Elliott
Sorry, Bryn but I must respectfully disagree. Speculation as to the chap's motivation aside, we're missing two crucial elements here: selection and training. Having so many 'holes in the cheese' lined up before a rotor blade even turns is worrying and must surely ring some alarm bells.
Cheers,
135
Last edited by One35; 15th Jan 2013 at 08:38. Reason: Typo
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I notice that the same edition of PAN has a tribute to the original Thunderbirds creator, Gerry Anderson.
For the record Bryn, noone here is questioning JP's flying skills or capabilities as a pilot, just the whole mindset of the project.
How ironic that one of the incidents reported in that edition involved CFIT after encountering bad weather, killing the pilot and two nurses on board. Possibly a case of pressonitis, something that JP has demonstrated that he is susceptible to. I understand your sentiment in the editorial and how bad we are to critisise a volunteer, but I cannot help thinking about the two innocent firefighters that would also be on board.
For the record Bryn, noone here is questioning JP's flying skills or capabilities as a pilot, just the whole mindset of the project.
How ironic that one of the incidents reported in that edition involved CFIT after encountering bad weather, killing the pilot and two nurses on board. Possibly a case of pressonitis, something that JP has demonstrated that he is susceptible to. I understand your sentiment in the editorial and how bad we are to critisise a volunteer, but I cannot help thinking about the two innocent firefighters that would also be on board.
TC
Sorry I dont know the answer to some of your questions. Yes in principle the idea of having private pilots doing a para military job is not great but given a controlled set of circumstances and i mean controlled set I dont see the problem.
The main reason I have played Devils advocate is the so called professional people getting off their high horse, I am afraid you in particular, as you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about wealthy people. On the other hand SS I respect highly as he can keep it under control. Have passed on at SS's request / advice to JP
Sorry I dont know the answer to some of your questions. Yes in principle the idea of having private pilots doing a para military job is not great but given a controlled set of circumstances and i mean controlled set I dont see the problem.
The main reason I have played Devils advocate is the so called professional people getting off their high horse, I am afraid you in particular, as you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about wealthy people. On the other hand SS I respect highly as he can keep it under control. Have passed on at SS's request / advice to JP
Hughes'y 500: obviously not listening to a word I have said. I'm saying this one last time and that's it for me with this loser's thread, especially now Bryn Elliot's involved.
IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY, NEVER HAS BEEN. IT'S ABOUT HIS ATTITUDE. Please please get this into your thick head.
Homonculus: very well said - perfect post describing the set up here.
SS:: Good luck.
IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY, NEVER HAS BEEN. IT'S ABOUT HIS ATTITUDE. Please please get this into your thick head.
Homonculus: very well said - perfect post describing the set up here.
SS:: Good luck.
Last edited by Thomas coupling; 15th Jan 2013 at 08:05.
Ouch TC!
I do not think I can add to this, my opinion is now posted [and rejected] so that is fine but I, like most of you, have not really changed my opinion greatly - we may have to agree to disagree and after all mine is an opinion of a non-pilot so worth less perhaps in this forum.
Thanks for the 'outing' ......
and the PR.
I do not think I can add to this, my opinion is now posted [and rejected] so that is fine but I, like most of you, have not really changed my opinion greatly - we may have to agree to disagree and after all mine is an opinion of a non-pilot so worth less perhaps in this forum.
Thanks for the 'outing' ......
and the PR.
Hughes 500
Just how do you come to the 'controlled set of circumstances' conclusion?
I wont repeat my last posting, but this is an ad hoc emergency call out which has not been even tried before in the UK.
I am not calling the gentelman's flying capabilities into question as I have never seen them. I am questioning whether any person can do this totally uncontrolled response safely. When I read report after report from FW pilots about being given a hard time by airport security and how this upsets them to the extent they cant safely fly a multi pilot A to B commercial flight, I flag up how this gentleman's mind set can be compatible with flying a 500
Just how do you come to the 'controlled set of circumstances' conclusion?
I wont repeat my last posting, but this is an ad hoc emergency call out which has not been even tried before in the UK.
I am not calling the gentelman's flying capabilities into question as I have never seen them. I am questioning whether any person can do this totally uncontrolled response safely. When I read report after report from FW pilots about being given a hard time by airport security and how this upsets them to the extent they cant safely fly a multi pilot A to B commercial flight, I flag up how this gentleman's mind set can be compatible with flying a 500
The One Your Mother Warned You About
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As someone with the odd few hours flying SAR and HEMS with Sir Niall Dementia of this thread, and the one who signs the cheques to the CAA for the operation I currently work on I have formally requested the CAA to launch an investigation into Mr P's operation. This thread is one thing, CPL holder or not, rich or not Mr P is untrained in what he wants to do and if it goes wrong not only will lives be at risk, but I have no doubt we will be on the receiving end of yet another knee jerk reaction from the authorities and yet more restrictions will be applied to the regulated and highly professional operations which work so well in this country.
As someone said earlier the boss of Wiltshire fire service needs to be shown this thread and told to grow up and get some proper guidance, or is this, to him at least an exercise in penis waving in front of all the other local fire service chiefs?
As someone said earlier the boss of Wiltshire fire service needs to be shown this thread and told to grow up and get some proper guidance, or is this, to him at least an exercise in penis waving in front of all the other local fire service chiefs?
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Al-bert
I guess some air ambulance outfits are not useful then.
And do the police helicopters really take off and operate in all wx?
To be useful, I say again USEFUL, to an emergency service you need to be available at all times, day and night, in all weathers
And do the police helicopters really take off and operate in all wx?
Chopjock - they are always available during the hours they are allowed to operate and if called will respond - BUT, if the weather is outside limits it is outside limits and they won't go (unlike, it would appear, some US HEMS operators).
Being useful to the emergency services doesn't mean launching in all weathers - even on SAR we have have the option to say no if the weather is too bad to achieve the aim. We might try a bit harder to get to the scene but it is because we have a fully IFR capable aircraft and a 4 man crew (with 2 pilots) to spread workload between - AA and police are single pilot.
I don't know how many times you have to hear from people who do this stuff professionally that Mr Paxman's idea is fraught with danger but he really doesn't have a clue about what he is trying to do.
As TC points out, JP has a big wallet and a bigger ego and should keep well away from playing at emergency services. If he really wants to do it then he should get an ATPLH and some twin time and apply for a HEMS or police job.
I am very disappointed by the editorial - is the editorial team really so unaware of the potential issues with JP's plan?
Being useful to the emergency services doesn't mean launching in all weathers - even on SAR we have have the option to say no if the weather is too bad to achieve the aim. We might try a bit harder to get to the scene but it is because we have a fully IFR capable aircraft and a 4 man crew (with 2 pilots) to spread workload between - AA and police are single pilot.
I don't know how many times you have to hear from people who do this stuff professionally that Mr Paxman's idea is fraught with danger but he really doesn't have a clue about what he is trying to do.
As TC points out, JP has a big wallet and a bigger ego and should keep well away from playing at emergency services. If he really wants to do it then he should get an ATPLH and some twin time and apply for a HEMS or police job.
I am very disappointed by the editorial - is the editorial team really so unaware of the potential issues with JP's plan?
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they are always available during the hours they are allowed to operate and if called will respond - BUT, if the weather is outside limits it is outside limits and they won't go
A lot of you on here are saying, well what if it's dark? well what if the wx is bad? what if it's too complicated?
Well I might say, what if it's not dark? what if it's acceptable wx? what if it's a do able mission?
Hell he might save a life, he might not. He will not have to respond if it's too dangerous.
Chopjock
or as most of the experienced rescue service pilots on here are thinking
"hell he might kill himself and pax or he might not"
If you want sound medical advice you would go to a doctor not someone who has done a work first aid course - why is it so difficult for some people to realise that the advice the experts are giving to this person is don't do it - you don't have the experience!!
HF
Hell he might save a life, he might not.
"hell he might kill himself and pax or he might not"
If you want sound medical advice you would go to a doctor not someone who has done a work first aid course - why is it so difficult for some people to realise that the advice the experts are giving to this person is don't do it - you don't have the experience!!
HF
HF,
relax, we've done our best, put the kettle on, maybe pour ourselves a malt. Let's just sit back now and let the Walts, Wannabees, Huge500 willy wavers and eejits get on with it eh? They'll have a great time impressing their mates (they can afford to buy lots of them too) with tales of derring do.
Now, micro lights and hang gliders. Surely if they were allowed to be armed they could make a significant contribution to UK air defence? Point defence of course, for strategic locations. The Lufwaffe trained on gliders in the thirties I recall and..........
relax, we've done our best, put the kettle on, maybe pour ourselves a malt. Let's just sit back now and let the Walts, Wannabees, Huge500 willy wavers and eejits get on with it eh? They'll have a great time impressing their mates (they can afford to buy lots of them too) with tales of derring do.
Now, micro lights and hang gliders. Surely if they were allowed to be armed they could make a significant contribution to UK air defence? Point defence of course, for strategic locations. The Lufwaffe trained on gliders in the thirties I recall and..........
Last edited by Al-bert; 15th Jan 2013 at 16:11.
Avoid imitations
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I sat in a newly opened restaurant at lunchtime thinking about this situation.
The restaurant was struggling badly, with insufficient staff to cope, to the extent that two couples on adjacent tables to us got up and walked out, muttering, without even getting to order, not even a drink.
I began to think why the service was so slow. I initially thought that I could have done a better job of running the place myself, or at least as good as this lot.
Then I thought - so why don't I open a little restaurant myself? I could do it, I'm sure. I can cook, people always like the meals I make. I can manage people, I have a modicum of business sense. So, let's go for it!!
Then, reality kicked in. I'm not a trained or experienced chef. I'd be fine doing a simple meal, but when the chips were down (sorry about that pun) and the pressure (cooker) was on, I'd foul up in short order (sorry, they just keep on coming), simply because I don't have any specialist professional knowledge to fall back on.
I'd be fine flipping burgers but NOT trying to attempt the fancy, high pressure stuff. At least, not unless I got some proper training and experience working alongside true professional chefs, in a proper restaurant.
Until then, I'll stick to flying rotary for a living, as I have been doing for over three decades. And flipping burgers at home.
I think there is a certain parallel here.
The restaurant was struggling badly, with insufficient staff to cope, to the extent that two couples on adjacent tables to us got up and walked out, muttering, without even getting to order, not even a drink.
I began to think why the service was so slow. I initially thought that I could have done a better job of running the place myself, or at least as good as this lot.
Then I thought - so why don't I open a little restaurant myself? I could do it, I'm sure. I can cook, people always like the meals I make. I can manage people, I have a modicum of business sense. So, let's go for it!!
Then, reality kicked in. I'm not a trained or experienced chef. I'd be fine doing a simple meal, but when the chips were down (sorry about that pun) and the pressure (cooker) was on, I'd foul up in short order (sorry, they just keep on coming), simply because I don't have any specialist professional knowledge to fall back on.
I'd be fine flipping burgers but NOT trying to attempt the fancy, high pressure stuff. At least, not unless I got some proper training and experience working alongside true professional chefs, in a proper restaurant.
Until then, I'll stick to flying rotary for a living, as I have been doing for over three decades. And flipping burgers at home.
I think there is a certain parallel here.
It would be a recipe for disaster
He should flan it at the earliest opportunity rather than making a big mis-steak and currying on!
He would be in the crepe with the CAA if he mixed it with the big boys and got a trifle confused - he might end up with egg on his face......
Enough already.........Ed!
He should flan it at the earliest opportunity rather than making a big mis-steak and currying on!
He would be in the crepe with the CAA if he mixed it with the big boys and got a trifle confused - he might end up with egg on his face......
Enough already.........Ed!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
On the way to work this evening, after dropping Sid Jnr off at hockey training, I realised that the members of our hockey club are probably more aware of the dangers for example, of landing a helicopter on a perfect LS such as a clear well lit large astro turf pitch than Bryn, Pitts, chop and all the others in JP's support group.