UK Police helicopter budget cuts
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I hear on the grape vine, the up the road option for Snuffolk is an expensive option, issues with a new build and communication and a lack of interest from management." Amazing what info you get over a pint"!!
As for ECPM, they could quite happily stay where they are, I don't think the landlord would mind? Just for a change, why mess with something that works very well?
Oh, I was forgetting, that is the the very issue! Shake it up let people and bits drop off and appear to save money! Silly me.
As for ECPM, they could quite happily stay where they are, I don't think the landlord would mind? Just for a change, why mess with something that works very well?
Oh, I was forgetting, that is the the very issue! Shake it up let people and bits drop off and appear to save money! Silly me.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Perhaps the solution is in something PA said earlier;
It seems that as NPAS has the power to creatre new bases at other RAF Stations such as RAF Colerne and RAF Honington, not to mention the authority to move units to the civ sites at Dunsfold, Southend, Bournemouth and Wolverhampton, the simple solution would be to inform RAF Northolt that the Met ASU, NPAS/BTP control centre and NPAS maintainence facility will be set up there.
Everything at one secure base, locals at Lippitts are happy, NPAS plan on track; Bobs your Uncle and Fannys your Aunt....sorted
The SS plan that envisages expansion at Lippitts would come a cropper with the neighbours..... they definitely do not like operations there. They got rid of the dogs [they barked], the guns [they went pop] and that interference saw most of the place shut down except the helicopters. As you may know the ASU thought of retreating to Northolt but that did not work out.
Everything at one secure base, locals at Lippitts are happy, NPAS plan on track; Bobs your Uncle and Fannys your Aunt....sorted
Ha Ha ha!
I wonder whether that presumptive list the NPAS team published was based on anything at all?
We know that certain parts of the plan were never researched [Colerne + fog] or discussed with partners [air ambulances and some if not all police air units] so it may be the case that the presumptive behavior in 'deciding' that various locations will be the future bases may already have put some noses out of joint. I am certain that the majority of the recent moves to the security of RAF bases [by Chiltern and Surrey for instance] will have required some pre-negotiation before any move took place. It is just good manners after all!
As there is a history of police [in general] speaking of their plans before negotiating the detail with the partners there may be a danger that the prospective landlord will be in the position to simply name the price or place particulaly onerous restrictions [on the NPAS budget].
What are Dyfed going to do with their new base until 2020 when the lease runs out? As the base is on a peppercorn rent for use as a helicopter base [only?] who can say what the rent will be for another purpose or even empty? Who is going to compensate the local authority - NPAS out of their money saving plans? Fixed wing seemingly will not work at Pembrey so enter stage left with Haverfordwest....... where?
I wonder whether that presumptive list the NPAS team published was based on anything at all?
We know that certain parts of the plan were never researched [Colerne + fog] or discussed with partners [air ambulances and some if not all police air units] so it may be the case that the presumptive behavior in 'deciding' that various locations will be the future bases may already have put some noses out of joint. I am certain that the majority of the recent moves to the security of RAF bases [by Chiltern and Surrey for instance] will have required some pre-negotiation before any move took place. It is just good manners after all!
As there is a history of police [in general] speaking of their plans before negotiating the detail with the partners there may be a danger that the prospective landlord will be in the position to simply name the price or place particulaly onerous restrictions [on the NPAS budget].
What are Dyfed going to do with their new base until 2020 when the lease runs out? As the base is on a peppercorn rent for use as a helicopter base [only?] who can say what the rent will be for another purpose or even empty? Who is going to compensate the local authority - NPAS out of their money saving plans? Fixed wing seemingly will not work at Pembrey so enter stage left with Haverfordwest....... where?
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Stav tea room
Was in Stav the other day having a brew and heard that PAS are more interested in engineering contracts in the sand pit region rather than police pilotage here in the UK. Was told it was all part of Joops master plan for his aviation wing in the sand pit where the money is.
Looking at Wright's post on PAS's Dec 2010 companies house report, and the LATEST directors listing link makes interesting reading.
The man on the inside also tells me that they are also looking at rented hangars in the midlands with the hope of getting a central NPAS engineering base contract.
Its amazing what news you hear over a cup of tea and sarnie.
Looking at Wright's post on PAS's Dec 2010 companies house report, and the LATEST directors listing link makes interesting reading.
The man on the inside also tells me that they are also looking at rented hangars in the midlands with the hope of getting a central NPAS engineering base contract.
Its amazing what news you hear over a cup of tea and sarnie.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
There's more to come? 
I thought NPIA/NPAS had done their bit;
Come up with a plan, throw it on the table and tell people to get on with it, and then reduce the group by 25% (the most knowledgeable member!)
Version 1.01 should be interesting, any release date?
We have 'Windows x', 'Snow Leopard'/'Lion', shall this be called 'White Elephant'?
I thought NPIA/NPAS had done their bit;
Come up with a plan, throw it on the table and tell people to get on with it, and then reduce the group by 25% (the most knowledgeable member!)
Version 1.01 should be interesting, any release date?
We have 'Windows x', 'Snow Leopard'/'Lion', shall this be called 'White Elephant'?
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Did the 25% jump or was he pushed because he was too aware of Air Support and how it works?
I can see a conspiracy starting.
Sorry I woke up in a silly mood! I'll get me coat!!
I can see a conspiracy starting.
Sorry I woke up in a silly mood! I'll get me coat!!
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The last 135 of the bunch
According to the Durham Tees Valley Airport "movement website"
Cleveland Police have taken delivery of the last of the new bulk purchase 135's from eurocopter.
I believe the figure was close to £6 million role equipped, and the Police Authority councillor in charge (Dave McLuckie) is now doubting its future in a recent Evening Gazette article, as he says he didnt like working with the neighbouring forces from past experience.
I think there may be financial implications for Cleveland Police as they have been told that their budget will lose 17 million over the next few years.
North Yorkshire Police will be happy to be given free use of the same 135 next year, but I'm not so sure what the Cleveland tax payers might think of paying for it all though?
Cleveland Police have taken delivery of the last of the new bulk purchase 135's from eurocopter.
I believe the figure was close to £6 million role equipped, and the Police Authority councillor in charge (Dave McLuckie) is now doubting its future in a recent Evening Gazette article, as he says he didnt like working with the neighbouring forces from past experience.
I think there may be financial implications for Cleveland Police as they have been told that their budget will lose 17 million over the next few years.
North Yorkshire Police will be happy to be given free use of the same 135 next year, but I'm not so sure what the Cleveland tax payers might think of paying for it all though?
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135: going cheap
assuming the cleveland 135 began production a good 2 years ago, that will make it three years old when NPAS take over. It will therefore have depreciated by 33% by NPAS criteria. So Cleveland Police will be offered about 3 million for it..!
kerching
kerching
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135 going cheap
Which is exactly why McLuckie demanded the old 135 T1 from the consortium when the other force chiefs said there was only ever a need for one a/c in the area.
McDuckie opted to go it alone as he wants to make a few bob from what Northumbria and Durham initially paid for.
Word in the councillors camp is that there is a plan to sell the new 135 and put the money into the new force HQ which he wants to start building asap.
He's already put the word out in the press that he's not happy about working with other forces, and sharing a/c under NPAS....(Evening Gazette).
Will G-CPAS see a years service under its Cleveland reg, or will he blame NPAS for its demise 9 months early.
No doubt the Cleveland authority members will still claim the £200k in expenses like last year, before McDuckie tries to become the new Cleveland police commisionaire.
McDuckie opted to go it alone as he wants to make a few bob from what Northumbria and Durham initially paid for.
Word in the councillors camp is that there is a plan to sell the new 135 and put the money into the new force HQ which he wants to start building asap.
He's already put the word out in the press that he's not happy about working with other forces, and sharing a/c under NPAS....(Evening Gazette).
Will G-CPAS see a years service under its Cleveland reg, or will he blame NPAS for its demise 9 months early.
No doubt the Cleveland authority members will still claim the £200k in expenses like last year, before McDuckie tries to become the new Cleveland police commisionaire.
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Just a few facts and figures.
Tigerfish, if you lived in the north east you would know that McDuckie has always had his own agenda which is all paid for out of public taxes, while he claimed a figure close to £100k from all his Redcar council and Police Authority coffee morninings last year.
From experience the shiney new 135P2 would be better served further south in an area which is actually busy like Liverpool. Most jobs in Cleveland are fly the flag missions from experience. Why do you think they never put a mission website online like other forces Helicopter Watch sites.
The old Neasu 3 force consortium "best value team" started looking at the lack of use of the Teesside a/c back in 2004.
By 2007 the main partner Northumbria had decided that the Cleveland a/c just wasnt needed, and one a/c could easily cover the area.
In 2005 they actually proved the fact when the NEASU consortium placed a single a/c at durham HQ to cover the whole area for a few months due to lack of pilots etc. It easily covered the whole area.
McDuckie then demanded the old T1 for his own force free of charge.
He did get a shock from the various pricey maintenance contracts later that year in authority meetings, when he was told that he then had to set aside an extra £500,000 pa, as the airframe and PBH engines were now seperate contracts.
It was now becoming very expensive for such a small force like Cleveland to run the 135, and McDuckie wanted to build the new police HQ.
What's the betting that McDuckie doesnt share the money with the Northumbria and Durham forces who purchased the T1 when the new 135P2 is sold off?
Cleveland only ever put 25% into the large neasu budget before going it alone. It started at less than £400k with the old Islander, but now they are on their own its close to £2million pa.
Its only a matter of time before G-CPAS become's a spare NPAS a/c.
Tigerfish, you should order a daily hard copy of the Evening Gazette, as it's McDuckie's platform for speeches on what HE intends to do with the publics money. Just a few facts and figures.
From experience the shiney new 135P2 would be better served further south in an area which is actually busy like Liverpool. Most jobs in Cleveland are fly the flag missions from experience. Why do you think they never put a mission website online like other forces Helicopter Watch sites.
The old Neasu 3 force consortium "best value team" started looking at the lack of use of the Teesside a/c back in 2004.
By 2007 the main partner Northumbria had decided that the Cleveland a/c just wasnt needed, and one a/c could easily cover the area.
In 2005 they actually proved the fact when the NEASU consortium placed a single a/c at durham HQ to cover the whole area for a few months due to lack of pilots etc. It easily covered the whole area.
McDuckie then demanded the old T1 for his own force free of charge.
He did get a shock from the various pricey maintenance contracts later that year in authority meetings, when he was told that he then had to set aside an extra £500,000 pa, as the airframe and PBH engines were now seperate contracts.
It was now becoming very expensive for such a small force like Cleveland to run the 135, and McDuckie wanted to build the new police HQ.
What's the betting that McDuckie doesnt share the money with the Northumbria and Durham forces who purchased the T1 when the new 135P2 is sold off?
Cleveland only ever put 25% into the large neasu budget before going it alone. It started at less than £400k with the old Islander, but now they are on their own its close to £2million pa.
Its only a matter of time before G-CPAS become's a spare NPAS a/c.
Tigerfish, you should order a daily hard copy of the Evening Gazette, as it's McDuckie's platform for speeches on what HE intends to do with the publics money. Just a few facts and figures.
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reduce the group by 25% (the most knowledgeable member!)
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As intimated in an earlier post, this would appear to be turning into the cluster-***k envisaged. It won't surprise many, but this "new" organisation has shed 25% of its staff and probably more than 80% of its aviation expertise, with no obvious plan of where it's going to get this advice/knowledge from in the future. If it relys upon "contracts managers" & "procurement experts", or even piecemeal advice from current busy practitioners (who will not have the time/pay-scale to devote quality time to the process) the vision will rapidly blur - not taking good advice from an exceptionally knowledgeable 25% will soon prove to be mightily short sighted IMHO.
If this new organisation does not consider a senior/experienced aviator in the top echelons, Top Gun will have shown the way "Crash & Burn, Mav!"
Interestingly, there's precious little information on the POLKA site - no-one with any real aviation credibility appearing to wish to contribute anything meaningful so far!
If this new organisation does not consider a senior/experienced aviator in the top echelons, Top Gun will have shown the way "Crash & Burn, Mav!"
Interestingly, there's precious little information on the POLKA site - no-one with any real aviation credibility appearing to wish to contribute anything meaningful so far!
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Have you tried asking a question on POLKA?
Interestingly, there's precious little information on the POLKA site - no-one with any real aviation credibility appearing to wish to contribute anything meaningful so far!
No, then like voting you have no grounds to complain IMHO.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Have you given POLKA the benefit of your real aviation experience? Have you asked an aviation question on POLKA?
No, then like voting you have no grounds to complain IMHO.
No, then like voting you have no grounds to complain IMHO.
Like having a vote, but not being allowed into the polling station!
uk_voters_turned_away_from_polls
Not everyone can dance.
Certainly not the POLKA.
Which is a bit endemic in this sector. Look at PACE and other 'groups' all closed shop stuff, no outside influences allowed in and yet it is those outside influences that often have the knowledge... hands up anyone in this [albeit restricted] audience who is developing airframes or equipment for police aviation.... landowners on airfields where they may wish to operate.... police authority members with an opinion about where local authority buck may be spent ... Members of Parliament.... even nosy journalists etc etc
I expect that was a no.... [hopefully anyway!] and yet people in that range of opinion holders are inevitably excluded from the deliberations on a whole range of police information forum's... and then when 'The Plan' [whatever it is] is published a whole tranche new views are presented that turn the whole thing on its head.
Why wasn't the Supt. Jonathon R Roy penned Hogan-Howe NPAS report given a wider circulation to sort out the bits that people missed first time about?
No-one knows everything and its clear the POLKA isn't working either. I would like to say this from experience but I have never seen it and do not know anyone who has a copy to even say whether it took 10 pages or 100 to get it 'not right'..... I had the temerity to ask ACPO for a copy now its a year old and the answer was a predictable 'No' .....
Yes OK .... I know why should I?
No doubt the slightly reconstituted 'Dream Team' are at a loss to answer why their word is not being taken as gospel.
This is is not National Defence, this is police work so why secrets?
Certainly not the POLKA.
Which is a bit endemic in this sector. Look at PACE and other 'groups' all closed shop stuff, no outside influences allowed in and yet it is those outside influences that often have the knowledge... hands up anyone in this [albeit restricted] audience who is developing airframes or equipment for police aviation.... landowners on airfields where they may wish to operate.... police authority members with an opinion about where local authority buck may be spent ... Members of Parliament.... even nosy journalists etc etc
I expect that was a no.... [hopefully anyway!] and yet people in that range of opinion holders are inevitably excluded from the deliberations on a whole range of police information forum's... and then when 'The Plan' [whatever it is] is published a whole tranche new views are presented that turn the whole thing on its head.
Why wasn't the Supt. Jonathon R Roy penned Hogan-Howe NPAS report given a wider circulation to sort out the bits that people missed first time about?
No-one knows everything and its clear the POLKA isn't working either. I would like to say this from experience but I have never seen it and do not know anyone who has a copy to even say whether it took 10 pages or 100 to get it 'not right'..... I had the temerity to ask ACPO for a copy now its a year old and the answer was a predictable 'No' .....
Yes OK .... I know why should I?
No doubt the slightly reconstituted 'Dream Team' are at a loss to answer why their word is not being taken as gospel.
This is is not National Defence, this is police work so why secrets?