Another Attack On A Police Helicopter
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before you continue to have a pop at our northern cousins. You should first find out if there was any police presence there at the reported time. I would suggest that there wasn't. (outside of their shift time).If you put the aircraft away after each flight, for safety, it follows you have to shut the hangar doors else what's the point. If you then have to open the doors wheel out your aircraft and then start it you will take longer than if you just walked out to it. It has to surely 
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
In addition to the earlier answers Sulley, if you think about it;
Instead of walking to the aircraft doing nothing but walking to the aircraft, if you were to move with the aircraft to the LP and allow the aircraft to go through its test sequence and then you do the pre start checks, as soon as you arrive at the LP you can start the engines.
Instead of walking to the ac at the LP, then waiting for the self test procedure, then FADEC test, then pre starts, then you can eventually start up, surely you can see that is both quicker and more secure.
Instead of walking to the aircraft doing nothing but walking to the aircraft, if you were to move with the aircraft to the LP and allow the aircraft to go through its test sequence and then you do the pre start checks, as soon as you arrive at the LP you can start the engines.
Instead of walking to the ac at the LP, then waiting for the self test procedure, then FADEC test, then pre starts, then you can eventually start up, surely you can see that is both quicker and more secure.
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surely you can see that is both quicker and more secure
Just a real time observation.
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Silsoe,
You really are very pedantic. I had a nightmare last night that I was back a Navy boarding school and Crab was the headmaster and you were the English teacher.
Anyway, Only Airpolice's first point in post #220 'Someone climbed the fence and jettisoned the door of the 135'. Was factual.
Yes the base is manned 24/7
Yes the aircraft goes in the hangar at night
Yes Police on duty at the time of the incident.
Also got to agree with Nodrama we could not possible get airborne quicker from the hangar. But I suppose it depends how far you have to tow your aircraft. If its parking spot is outside the hangar which seems sensible and what most people do, then unless you are doing you checks differently from everyone else, I agree from getting in to ready to take off 2mins easy.
Finally you could come up here, there are plenty of English people here, they run all the teashops in tourist locations
You really are very pedantic. I had a nightmare last night that I was back a Navy boarding school and Crab was the headmaster and you were the English teacher.
Anyway, Only Airpolice's first point in post #220 'Someone climbed the fence and jettisoned the door of the 135'. Was factual.
Yes the base is manned 24/7
Yes the aircraft goes in the hangar at night
Yes Police on duty at the time of the incident.
Also got to agree with Nodrama we could not possible get airborne quicker from the hangar. But I suppose it depends how far you have to tow your aircraft. If its parking spot is outside the hangar which seems sensible and what most people do, then unless you are doing you checks differently from everyone else, I agree from getting in to ready to take off 2mins easy.
Finally you could come up here, there are plenty of English people here, they run all the teashops in tourist locations
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 30th Mar 2010 at 10:15. Reason: Pedantically, it's a Hangar, not hanger!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Silsoe,
You really are very pedantic.
You really are very pedantic.
I could be a bit more pedantic, it wouldn't be pretty though, bearing in mind earlier where you said here; http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/376...ml#post5603103
"Must be a different self test system to the one I have seen."
and
"Any 135 drivers care to comment?"
and
"Any 135 drivers care to comment?"
As I said before, people in glass houses should wear dressing gowns.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
ND;
Pinch of salt taken!
My 135 just went out on a job....filthy weather outside, not the sort of thing you want to be moving the aircraft in and out of the hangar in.
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Silsoe -nah not having that 
I have to walk the same distance from ops to the aircraft as i do to the hangar. Add the fact that the hangar doors have to be opened it just ain't possible to get airbourne quicker from the hangar.
I have to walk the same distance from ops to the aircraft as i do to the hangar. Add the fact that the hangar doors have to be opened it just ain't possible to get airbourne quicker from the hangar.
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silsoe
After reading majority of this thread i can only conclude that you:
Will go to any length to prove your misguided judgment to be correct.
Are Probably a retired Mil QHI.
Run a papershop on coronation street.
Or is it the case that you are a police heli pilot, who tells the on duty pc's that you have to sit in the ac as they pull it out, so you can complete checks, to enable you to be airborne quicker.
SH!T£!!!!!!!
The ac will never be quicker into the air if its position at start is in the hangar.
After reading majority of this thread i can only conclude that you:
Will go to any length to prove your misguided judgment to be correct.
Are Probably a retired Mil QHI.
Run a papershop on coronation street.
Or is it the case that you are a police heli pilot, who tells the on duty pc's that you have to sit in the ac as they pull it out, so you can complete checks, to enable you to be airborne quicker.
SH!T£!!!!!!!
The ac will never be quicker into the air if its position at start is in the hangar.
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The ac will never be quicker into the air if its position at start is in the hangar.
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its a pain in the a**e.
If its lashing down with rain you enter the cockpit with soaked clothes
has lost us a couple of pursuits.
it's all but done by the time your helmet is plugged in and the harness has been secured.
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Silsoe
Who is Reilly? and your link doesn't go to anything I said.
Weight of opinion seems to be mounting against your thought of how quick it is to start of in the hangar
Oh reilly !
I could be a bit more pedantic, it wouldn't be pretty though, bearing in mind earlier where you said here; Another Attack On A Police Helicopter
I could be a bit more pedantic, it wouldn't be pretty though, bearing in mind earlier where you said here; Another Attack On A Police Helicopter
Weight of opinion seems to be mounting against your thought of how quick it is to start of in the hangar
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I'm sort of with Sid on this one in principle. No, it is slightly slower out and away, however the advantages outweigh this disadvantages. You may lose a small percentage of jobs, but you don't lose the aircraft. There is no chance of more money for point guards in the current financial climate, so its a no-brainer...... Put it away between jobs or accept it may get torched
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You lot aint givin the tax payer much in the way of confidence with such an expensive asset.
I'm sorry but if it's too bad to get it out the hangar WHY are you 
And its a pain in the arse to keep bringing it in.....ooh you need a street reality check mate....been a while since you have been to a violent domestic on your own miles from back up have we.. and your complaining about protecting millions of quids worth of helicopter.
All pretty bad really and for the northern lot to have such a bad attitude because its a leased aircraft well. If you can't stop a pi$$ed up lad getting into the air ambo's chopper before yours, you got no chance against a proper bunch of crims...unless every one up there is always pi$$ed
My 135 just went out on a job....filthy weather outside, not the sort of thing you want to be moving the aircraft in and out of the hangar in.
And its a pain in the arse to keep bringing it in.....ooh you need a street reality check mate....been a while since you have been to a violent domestic on your own miles from back up have we.. and your complaining about protecting millions of quids worth of helicopter.
All pretty bad really and for the northern lot to have such a bad attitude because its a leased aircraft well. If you can't stop a pi$$ed up lad getting into the air ambo's chopper before yours, you got no chance against a proper bunch of crims...unless every one up there is always pi$$ed
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And its a pain in the arse to keep bringing it in.....ooh you need a street reality check mate
Compared to the days when our aircraft stayed out at all hours of the day or night it is a pain in the rear. I'm frustrated by the fact that a few scroats have had a major impact on the way we operate, and are preventing us from providing you (if you are who you claim to be!) with the service we would like to give. I've never been to a violent domestic because I'm a pilot (civvy driver) not a police officer. And another thing, I'm not complaining about protecting millions of pounds worth of constabulary property. In fact the reverse is true, we don't have access to an unlimited supply of 135's and need to look after the one we have as we don't know when a replacement will arrive.
Last edited by Retro Coupe; 30th Mar 2010 at 20:04.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Who is Reilly? and your link doesn't go to anything I said.
That link is a 'permalink' direct to one of your posts.
Nice to see that RC is finally keeping up and changed the part in the post that previously said "In fact the reverse is true, unlike Sydney Sid we don't have access to an unlimited supply of 135's and need to look after the one we have as we don't know when a replacement will arrive."
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
OK test results time (the wx is not too good!).
Scenario 1
Ac in hangar. Helilift in situ, with clamps open.
Ac Heli-lifted to LP near to hangar door, as a lot of units have.
Scenario 2
Ac outside on LP near to hangar door, as a lot of units have.
Constants
Ac - 135 T1
Crew start from Ops room.
Walkround carried out.
Full normal pre-start procedure carried out.
Time stopped when ready to start engines.
Result/Times
min:sec:dec
(I promise that the stopwatch was running 'blind')
Scenario 1 - 1:18.9
Scenario 2 - 1:19.4
Now, I understand that there will be a point where the distance from the hangar will start to have an influence on these timings. Assuming that you walk to the LP faster than the Helilift gets the ac there, then you win.
But in this test carried out half an hour ago, the hangared ac was quicker to the eng start phase and was, prior to the movement in a more secure position.
No doubt someone will mention the quickstart procedure, (recommended only if special circumstances require) when yes the ac left outside will be faster, however with the FLMs for the TI, T2 and P2+ in front of me, I notice that the P2+ says,
I'm not sure what the T2+ FLM says, but if its the same as the P2+, points 1&2 would prevent a quickstart.
Scenario 1
Ac in hangar. Helilift in situ, with clamps open.
Ac Heli-lifted to LP near to hangar door, as a lot of units have.
Scenario 2
Ac outside on LP near to hangar door, as a lot of units have.
Constants
Ac - 135 T1
Crew start from Ops room.
Walkround carried out.
Full normal pre-start procedure carried out.
Time stopped when ready to start engines.
Result/Times
min:sec:dec
(I promise that the stopwatch was running 'blind')
Scenario 1 - 1:18.9
Scenario 2 - 1:19.4
Now, I understand that there will be a point where the distance from the hangar will start to have an influence on these timings. Assuming that you walk to the LP faster than the Helilift gets the ac there, then you win.
But in this test carried out half an hour ago, the hangared ac was quicker to the eng start phase and was, prior to the movement in a more secure position.
No doubt someone will mention the quickstart procedure, (recommended only if special circumstances require) when yes the ac left outside will be faster, however with the FLMs for the TI, T2 and P2+ in front of me, I notice that the P2+ says,
CAUTION
(In capitals)
Do not use the quickstart procedure if, after completion of the standard and additional pre-flight checks, any of the following applies:
- The Helicopter was left unattended
- The Helicopters settings or configuration were changed or interfered with
- Since completion of the standard and additional pre-flight checks, more than 12 hours has elapsed
(In capitals)
Do not use the quickstart procedure if, after completion of the standard and additional pre-flight checks, any of the following applies:
- The Helicopter was left unattended
- The Helicopters settings or configuration were changed or interfered with
- Since completion of the standard and additional pre-flight checks, more than 12 hours has elapsed
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Yonez;
Possibly, but I will not lie.
No.
Only if I can get Gail to work there
I have been to 2 units that suggested that, as so the theory goes, when the ac was out of the hangar it was then occupied (and therefore safe!!) However I rarely do it by my own initiation.
Having said that, with the aircraft in the hangar and it being cold and wet outside, in the words of Mr T,
I pity the fool!
Possibly, but I will not lie.
No.
Only if I can get Gail to work there
Or is it the case that you are a police heli pilot, who tells the on duty pc's that you have to sit in the ac as they pull it out, so you can complete checks, to enable you to be airborne quicker.
SH!T£!!!!!!!
SH!T£!!!!!!!
Having said that, with the aircraft in the hangar and it being cold and wet outside, in the words of Mr T,
I pity the fool!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Was the hangar door locked? Yes
Is the Pilot inside the aircraft while it is being towed? In this case, Yes
Do you lock up before lift off, in case anyone gets into the hangar while you are away? Yes
Is the Pilot inside the aircraft while it is being towed? In this case, Yes
Do you lock up before lift off, in case anyone gets into the hangar while you are away? Yes
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I remember a private B206 taking an airgun pellet through the front screen in Cheshire 2004, shot by a scrote! Very expensive repair!
The aircraft could have been in the hangar within 1 minute but was left outside with the obvious thinking, "why would anyone do such a thing?".
Why are we leaving these VERY expensive police machines outside at all??
If the weather is absolute pants then they don,t fly so don,t try give me about it might be your wife or daughter involved in an incident and every second counts because we always launch!!.
Just because its snowing, raining or blowing a gale should have no effect if you put it in the hangar or not. Just because its not a nice thing for the ground staff to do.
So, we lose a couple of car chases? Yeah yeah yeah, here comes the argument that the perp might go on to kill an innocent civilian.
Happens every day regardless, its life (or death?)
To me its such a ** off. Security jobs in this country pay peanuts. I am 100% sure that you could pay for a team of security men to watch over these machines for far less money a year than the repairs cost.
Get your arses into gear and start protecting these valuable machines.
It will not be long with the way some are going with their security before its NOT damage but sabatage that will be involved.
God help many more of us if that happens. Pitch links loose?
Get off the high horses and start doing something positive here. A drunk gets in an air ambulance and then a police machine.
Please don,t take the belief that I am offering the scrotes a way of doing more damage here. They are quite aware of the ways to bring down a helicopter. The only way to stop them is a bigger fence, bigger security ba$tards or a faster tug-a-lug with a big umbrella for the sensitive ground handlers.
Heaven help us!
The aircraft could have been in the hangar within 1 minute but was left outside with the obvious thinking, "why would anyone do such a thing?".
Why are we leaving these VERY expensive police machines outside at all??
If the weather is absolute pants then they don,t fly so don,t try give me about it might be your wife or daughter involved in an incident and every second counts because we always launch!!.
Just because its snowing, raining or blowing a gale should have no effect if you put it in the hangar or not. Just because its not a nice thing for the ground staff to do.
So, we lose a couple of car chases? Yeah yeah yeah, here comes the argument that the perp might go on to kill an innocent civilian.
Happens every day regardless, its life (or death?)
To me its such a ** off. Security jobs in this country pay peanuts. I am 100% sure that you could pay for a team of security men to watch over these machines for far less money a year than the repairs cost.
Get your arses into gear and start protecting these valuable machines.
It will not be long with the way some are going with their security before its NOT damage but sabatage that will be involved.
God help many more of us if that happens. Pitch links loose?
Get off the high horses and start doing something positive here. A drunk gets in an air ambulance and then a police machine.
Please don,t take the belief that I am offering the scrotes a way of doing more damage here. They are quite aware of the ways to bring down a helicopter. The only way to stop them is a bigger fence, bigger security ba$tards or a faster tug-a-lug with a big umbrella for the sensitive ground handlers.
Heaven help us!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
The show stopper in the timings argument here is the type of departure being used.
Some here are arguing over the difference of a few seconds, when their location dictates that they perform a helipad departure. If the quick reaction time is essential, surely a move to a location that allows a clear area departure would make sense?
Please tell me that no job is more important than a safe departure profile!
Some here are arguing over the difference of a few seconds, when their location dictates that they perform a helipad departure. If the quick reaction time is essential, surely a move to a location that allows a clear area departure would make sense?
Please tell me that no job is more important than a safe departure profile!