Another Attack On A Police Helicopter

[Clydeport]

Fortyodd2, SilsoeSid,

Neither of you seem to understand the leasing idea.

Strathclyde Police are leasing the capability not the airframe.

Therefore if the airframe is not available due to routine maintenance, unscheduled maintenance or damage, either criminal or otherwise then another fully specced EC135T2+ airframe is provided.

Clever eh. The taxpayer is paying for the lease and always has a police helicopter on line. I'm happy with that as a tax payer.

Also I would contend that any ASU that is keeping its helicopter in a hangar between jobs is not providing the service I as a tax payer expect

[jayteeto]

Clydeport, as an ex-pilot from one of the attacked units, I feel that I m qualified to comment. What others mean, is that if an aircraft was lost, next years costs would go up, so you WOULD end up paying the price. The next question of aircraft in or out? Of course we ALL want the aircraft out, but at what price? The leasing company would not provide a security team standing 24/7 next to the helicopter and that is the only option other than hangaring the asset. Unless of course, your constabulary would be prepared to provide a point guard. THAT, of course costs cold hard cash. It is not feasible for the crew to be next to it all day.

[Pan Euro]

"Also I would contend that any ASU that is keeping its helicopter in a hangar between jobs is not providing the service I as a tax payer expect"


Clydeport, Is there not a difference between putting an aircraft away at night when you all go home and putting it away between sorties? At least those that do put them away look after them!

[B.U.D.G.I.E]

Also I would contend that any ASU that is keeping its helicopter in a hangar between jobs is not providing the service I as a tax payer expect

Where did you think that load of cr*p from then

[500e]

I do not know about liability regarding helicopter lease but if hired\leased equipment IS insured, the cost is high, on small plant a lot of hirers don't, and try and recover from hirer.
We hire a large amount electronic equipment, there is a clause in our hire agreement that "The hirer is responsible for loss or damage other than through normal use" This is allways pointed out at time of hire, & on delivery\ collection.
So either the cost is built in as self insurance or via an insurance Co.(Very Costly) or the hirer bears the cost, it has to be one or the other ??.

[Sulley]

putting the aircraft away after each flight will obviously mean that your response time is greater. so I guess from the above comments john q taxpayer wants his air support instantly if not sooner ! Can't respond if its damaged ,can but slower if not, take your pick.Only other consideration is how likely is it to be attacked.If you want the response time AND safety its going to cost john q taxpayer more for the added security at which point he'd probably accept the slower response time.

[SilsoeSid]

Clyde,

I am quite happy with the leasing principle thanks, the clue being that I made no reference to it in my post.

Also I would contend that any ASU that is keeping its helicopter in a hangar between jobs is not providing the service I as a tax payer expect

Absolute ignorance Clyde.
1. One units reaction time is in fact quicker now that the ac is in the hangar.
2. Certainly all of the most recent 'larger attacks' happened when the aircraft were outside a manned location, (I think that is the case for all)

I suspect that there may be some insurance claim 'issues' that the tax payer may have to pick up regardless of 'ownership' should reasonable steps not be taken.
Much like a frosty mornings car theft insurance claim! (I refer to '2' above!)


Strathclyde Police*-*Air Support Unit

The Air Support Unit is based at the City Heliport, next to the Scottish Exhibition and Conference Centre (SECC) in Glasgow. This location is ideal for providing the best air support coverage for the Strathclyde Police area, some 5,348 square miles, with more coastlines than France.,

Looking at google maps, people in glass houses, should wear dressing gowns!....

[SilsoeSid]

I guess Clyde is used to picking figures, juggling words etc that suit.

The Air Support Unit is based at the City Heliport, next to the Scottish Exhibition and Conference Centre (SECC) in Glasgow. This location is ideal for providing the best air support coverage for the Strathclyde Police area, some 5,348 square miles, with more coastlines than France

Strathclyde Police is responsible for policing 1,760 miles of coastline and 5,500 square miles of coastal waters in the Force area.

Strathclyde Police*-*Air Support Unit
Strathclyde Police*-*Marine Policing

France
total: 4,668 km metropolitan France: 3,427 km
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...elds/2060.html

Considering 'Met France' as only 2 coastlines
'Met' the whole of Scootland only has one!

[Clydeport]

Silsoe,

Well done on your research, but not my quote you quoted

Interested to find out how you react quicker from the hangar than walking to the aircraft and starting it up. Some kind of thunderbirds system?

You are obviously not happy with the leasing principal if you think you

'suspect that there may be some insurance claim 'issues' that the tax payer may have to pick up regardless of 'ownership' should reasonable steps not be taken.

- Not so, don't know how many times I have to say it. In this case the tax payer is not involved this would be a Bond problem.

BUDGIE

Got that cr*p from the fact that if its in the hangar response will be slower than if it on the pan. Not talking about night time or after the hours of darkness. I'm talking about daylight hours.

Some confusion with people here also I think. This incident did not happen at night

jayteeto

No increased cost the next year if you are on a 7 year contract. Again the liability would be Bonds, but you should know that now

[B.U.D.G.I.E]

so if i'm wrong and the thunderbird system is broke. Then does a T2 or P2 take a little longer to complete its self test when the master is put on...

So if the pilot gets in while its in the hangar then surely by the time its on the pad it just needs the go button to be pressed. Or you all run out to it together and then sit there like lemons waiting for the self test....mmm same time.

so may be sid is right. response times are getting quicker.....obviously based on how far you need to push the beast to get it on a pad

[Clydeport]

Must be a different self test system to the one I have seen.

Utter nonsense to suggest that the time from switching on the Bat Master until you can start the first engine is longer than the time it takes to get the aircraft out the hangar

and you suggested I was the person talking cr+p

Any 135 drivers care to comment?

[Islandcrazy]

Hey Chief...dont worry its covered!

Hey ClydeP,

Are you seriously suggesting that someone isn't going to get their ar@# kicked for letting a member of the public get inside your nice helo? Do you think that your senior officers and members of the public will draw conclusions on the units professionalism if the unit think its "okay" to get their helo attacked and that it's okay if one of the unit's members (if you are) is saying "its fine". Believe me...they do not think its okay and doesnt matter 'cause we'll just get another.

I suspect that your unit UEO will be eating the Chief's carpet sometime soon. Sure he wont be saying its okay. and if he/she reads your comments you may be too.

[nodrama]

In this case, I think that both customer and owner play a part in protecting this a/c.

The police look pretty stupid if they can't protect one of their 'assets' from criminals and, besides the fact that they are the police, they have a responsibility to look after something that they have leased. Bond will want to protect their £ 3m+ property. Also, don't forget (or in case you didn't know) that the pilot is a Bond employee and the crew are policemen.

I would imagine that they are working together to find a solution.....

[TeeS]

I can't help but think that in the same way that Terrorism has won by forcing us to strip off belts, shoes etc. at airport security; the villains will be dead chuffed to see police helicopters grouped together in hangars miles from where they are needed.

That is not to say that the helicopters shouldn't be protected, by lethal force if required , but don't let the criminals set the game plan.

Cheers

TeeS

[SilsoeSid]

Interested to find out how you react quicker from the hangar than walking to the aircraft and starting it up. Some kind of thunderbirds system?

1. Because before, it was a fair walk to the ac.
2. The self tests and pre start checks can be done while ac is being pushed out that shorter distance.

Not so, don't know how many times I have to say it. In this case the tax payer is not involved this would be a Bond problem.

Wow! A total hand washing exercise.
A Bond leased aircraft, at a Bond heliport on loan to the Police, who leave the aircraft unlocked, unattended with no security system that provides a reactive force, (hence suspect found by oncoming crew) and absolutely no sense of responsibility for the aircraft.

If I was Mr Bond, I would be a lot more careful of who I lend my multi million bits of kit to!

[SilsoeSid]

Looking at the google maps walk around feature Clyde, I suggest that fence gets sorted before the smoke in the background gets a little closer!

NO secrets just google;

[Clydeport]

Oh dear I only came on here to set the record straight and point out the none of what Airpolice had said was accurate. And I notice he is still talking out his ar*se when he says the UEO has nothing to do with the aircraft when its not flying.

Yet here is Silsoe still using some of those quotes. The person was not detained by the oncoming crew but by the crew on base who reacted to the intrusion. But never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

Also Silsoe your picture is out of date. The electric fence has been replaced by folding down palm trees that allow the helicopter to take off after the swimming pool in the roof of the hangar has moved out the way. But thanks for the picture anyway.

Anyway got to go now cause the UEO is after me.........or am I the UEO? Maybe I have to get ready to eat the Chiefs carpet........or am I the Chief and am I looking for Silsoe and to come up and take over the unit and sort everything out.

[SilsoeSid]

Clyde

This is a rumour network. However, apart from his first sentence every single thing Airpolice said was factually incorrect.

Clyde

Oh dear I only came on here to set the record straight and point out the none of what Airpolice had said was accurate.

So which one is it?

Yet here is Silsoe still using some of those quotes.

So you can confirm then that the base is manned 24/7?

How did the intruder get past your high security, unnoticed until after the minor, that could easily have been major, damage was done?

I think I answered your Thunderbird point and dispelled your belief that having the ac hangared, now lessens the reaction time, but if you think palm trees are a good enough defence, remember,



If you are the UEO Clyde and can't see what is being said
If you are the Chief, I suggest you get the UEO in for a chat about threat indicators and the ignoring thereof
If you think SilsoeSid would emigrate, how would he then be able to complain about the number of Scotchish in England

[Retro Coupe]

From a reliable source:

"About 0700 hrs on Sunday 21 March 2010 a 17 year male scaled the perimeter fence which surrounds the heliport and entered the air ambulance, no damage or property stolen from air ambulance, he then made his way across the pad and entered the police helicopter. While inside the aircraft he jettisoned both the front doors which fell to the ground causing minor damage to both doors.

Sadly the Pilot had left his life jacket within the aircraft which the male removed and made off with, the jacket contained a STASS bottle, personal locator beacon and day/night signal distress flare.

Having initially made off from the base he activated the flare and was attempting to activate the PLB without success. The Police crew of the aircraft then discovered the damage to the aircraft at which point they observed the male climbing back into the base!

The male was under the influence of drink and drugs. All stolen property was recovered albeit in a state and requiring replaced.

He was duly apprehended and kept in custody, he appeared at Glasgow Sheriff Court on Monday 22 March, pled guilty to vandalism and not guilty to the theft of the life jacket. This was accepted by the court."

[SilsoeSid]

Come on RC, I know it's early, but do really expect us to rise to that one?