Another Attack On A Police Helicopter
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Reading through this thread all that comes to mind is the classic "Plod" tactic of refusing to accept any responsibility for the incident.
If the freaking helicopter had been locked away, the little scrotes would have been unable to get at it.
Far too easy to sit 150m away drinking coffee and reading "NutS" mag than to actually guard the helicopter.
The facts look pretty obvious to me:
Plod drinking coffee/watching vids while scrote cuts through fence, sets fire to helicopter and makes good his escape!!!!
I would want that kept quite too!!!
If the freaking helicopter had been locked away, the little scrotes would have been unable to get at it.
Far too easy to sit 150m away drinking coffee and reading "NutS" mag than to actually guard the helicopter.
The facts look pretty obvious to me:
Plod drinking coffee/watching vids while scrote cuts through fence, sets fire to helicopter and makes good his escape!!!!
I would want that kept quite too!!!
If the "Freaking" helicopter had been locked away - there was nowhere to lock it away, there is no hangar.
If the "Freaking" helicopter had been locked away it would not be in a position to respond quickly enough when called upon.
As for your "facts", FYI, the crew had landed less than 10 minutes prior to the attack and were completing their tech/task logs. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story though.
If the "Freaking" helicopter had been locked away it would not be in a position to respond quickly enough when called upon.
As for your "facts", FYI, the crew had landed less than 10 minutes prior to the attack and were completing their tech/task logs. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story though.
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Expecting a police helicopter to be put in a hangar after every job is not a viable proposition and shows a complete lack of understanding. 
500e,
Sentry. Nice idea, it didn't stop the latest Surrey attack just meant the bobbies could chase them off and limit the damage. It would have been different if they had brought petrol bombs instead of axes.
This topic is about risk management and at the end of the day in the real world of public spending accountability MONEY.
Yes all ASUs could be protected but at what cost? From WMP and Surrey's accountants point of view the aircraft was insured (something that is legally required so can't be avoided) so why spend money un-neccessarily on guards and fences. They don't care about the loss or the inconvenience or even the loss of public confidence. It's all about making the incoming match the outgoing.
Some people need to wake up to the real world we live in.
Their loved ones could be killed in a car crash due to faulty manufacture that could have been prevented but the assessed risk of lawsuits against product recall out weighed the cost. They don't care about your loss.
Sadly this is the world we live in. Best get used to it because you aren't going to change it.
FNW
Sentry. Nice idea, it didn't stop the latest Surrey attack just meant the bobbies could chase them off and limit the damage. It would have been different if they had brought petrol bombs instead of axes.
This topic is about risk management and at the end of the day in the real world of public spending accountability MONEY.
Yes all ASUs could be protected but at what cost? From WMP and Surrey's accountants point of view the aircraft was insured (something that is legally required so can't be avoided) so why spend money un-neccessarily on guards and fences. They don't care about the loss or the inconvenience or even the loss of public confidence. It's all about making the incoming match the outgoing.
Some people need to wake up to the real world we live in.
Their loved ones could be killed in a car crash due to faulty manufacture that could have been prevented but the assessed risk of lawsuits against product recall out weighed the cost. They don't care about your loss.
Sadly this is the world we live in. Best get used to it because you aren't going to change it.
FNW
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Double Snot - I don't want to be rude, but you'd be dangerous if you actually had a clue. FNW, ST & 4*2 at least know how these things work practically.
As has been said it's about risk management and a balance of reasonable security (which they justly believed they had) and getting aircorne to meet the task as fast as possible. Even if they had access to a hangar, (which you seem to have ignored) it adds about 2 mins to getting airborne - unless you have some fancy "Thunderbirds" type trolley to wheel you out as you start up - at what expense?
It's the taxpayer who pays in the end and no-one I know in this industry would want to be drinking coffee in preference to catching a pair of little snots who wished to trash their machine - the only sad thing is that, if they had caught them, they wouldn't have been allowed to do to them what they wanted - but it's likely to have involved a duplicated part of the male anatomy and some blunt instuments!
Thanks for the appropriate handle - it made writing this more fun!
As has been said it's about risk management and a balance of reasonable security (which they justly believed they had) and getting aircorne to meet the task as fast as possible. Even if they had access to a hangar, (which you seem to have ignored) it adds about 2 mins to getting airborne - unless you have some fancy "Thunderbirds" type trolley to wheel you out as you start up - at what expense?
It's the taxpayer who pays in the end and no-one I know in this industry would want to be drinking coffee in preference to catching a pair of little snots who wished to trash their machine - the only sad thing is that, if they had caught them, they wouldn't have been allowed to do to them what they wanted - but it's likely to have involved a duplicated part of the male anatomy and some blunt instuments!
Thanks for the appropriate handle - it made writing this more fun!
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Defending DOUBLE BOGEY
Reading through his previous posts, it's apparent that he used to be a Police Pilot (as355 if I recall correctly). So, presumably, he does have a clue. I must admit that I assumed that the attack had occured during a period when the helicopter had been unattended for a while.
Can the police give themselves a crime reference number to use in the insurance claim?
'cos that's sure as hell all they'd do if it happened to Joe Public.
Can the police give themselves a crime reference number to use in the insurance claim?
'cos that's sure as hell all they'd do if it happened to Joe Public.
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Sasless or maybe senseless oh and bad bogie, you guys do not bring anything constructive to the table, you seem to revel in being critical with hindsight, the world is full of yesterdays news experts with little to offer new...I think that the swines that did the attack have, as its been pointed out cost the possiblility of lost lives... but of course Sasy and bogie arnt really bothered about that when good old bobby bashing is so much fun....
FNW Let me see if I have this correct,
1/ it is cheaper to loose X mill£ helicopter than secure it.
2/ The cost of the Sentry or some other device is more expensive than the insurance excess.
The excess will be paid by taxpayer & or every private helio owner in increased premiums, + the insurers must be getting wary of insuring these machines as this is not the first that has been attacked.
3/ There is an added cost in public safety, not to mention hire charges if one is available? or time to incident if you use cover from another force, + the loss of use to neighbouring force.
4/ So there is no manpower to respond to an emergency call on a large commercial airfield.
The call from the Devices we used was over our closed radio system, It could have been over Police Tetra, airfield security, or straight to dispatcher, or to all if the unit was a bespoke one.
5/ The helio appears to be written off or close to how many mill £?how long for replacement?.
6/ Thunderbird trolley is in use with some forces I believe.
7/How long before the next attack ? now it appears so easy?.
1/ it is cheaper to loose X mill£ helicopter than secure it.
2/ The cost of the Sentry or some other device is more expensive than the insurance excess.
The excess will be paid by taxpayer & or every private helio owner in increased premiums, + the insurers must be getting wary of insuring these machines as this is not the first that has been attacked.
3/ There is an added cost in public safety, not to mention hire charges if one is available? or time to incident if you use cover from another force, + the loss of use to neighbouring force.
4/ So there is no manpower to respond to an emergency call on a large commercial airfield.
The call from the Devices we used was over our closed radio system, It could have been over Police Tetra, airfield security, or straight to dispatcher, or to all if the unit was a bespoke one.
5/ The helio appears to be written off or close to how many mill £?how long for replacement?.
6/ Thunderbird trolley is in use with some forces I believe.
7/How long before the next attack ? now it appears so easy?.
Last edited by 500e; 11th Jun 2009 at 14:35.
Volrider,
Sorry to hurt your feelings but in another life I have been both a local police officer and a federal special agent and thus have a bit of background in law enforcement particularly investigations. Add in my experience guarding nuclear weapons as a helicopter pilot and that adds to my basis to make the comments I do.
The fact you do not agree with them bears on you.....not me.
Sorry to hurt your feelings but in another life I have been both a local police officer and a federal special agent and thus have a bit of background in law enforcement particularly investigations. Add in my experience guarding nuclear weapons as a helicopter pilot and that adds to my basis to make the comments I do.
The fact you do not agree with them bears on you.....not me.
1/ it is cheaper to loose X mill£ helicopter than secure it. That's not what I said. I said you can protect it but at what cost. In WMPs case they were on an International airport meeting Internationally accepted security standards. If you want to put them in the middle of nowhere with the same protection as the nuclear weapons we used to protect in Germany then yes you can guarantee its security but the cost would have you and everyone else complaining
2/ The cost of the Sentry or some other device is more expensive than the insurance excess. Again didn't say that. Surrey had the system (or similar) and got attacked. These systems are good but if they keep going off then they soon get ignored. And they only tell you there is an intruder, or rabbit, and you then have to do something about it. Note: Not the case at Surrey
The excess will be paid by taxpayer & or every private helio owner in increased premiums, + the insurers must be getting wary of insuring these machines as this is not the first that has been attacked. Is there an excess? None on our 4 helicopters. If no Police helicopter was attacked then the premium will say the same. At the time it was unthinkable that an aircraft be attacked (no power of hindsight). What would be the premium increase be if attacked (unthinkable at the time) against cost of protecting? It's all about RISK. Are you worried about other peoples excess if you lose something or crash your car and it's your fault? If it is your fault do you accept the loss and don't claim? Again modern society doesn't give a damn about anyone else.
3/ There is an added cost in public safety, not to mention hire charges if one is available? or time to incident if you use cover from another force, + the loss of use to neighbouring force. Risk v Cost again. There is alot more mutual support going on than you know. There is also a review of ASUs going on in ACPO at the moment and they are using a geographical plot and not force area for the distribution of Air Support. WMP could be covered by Central Counties, East Midlands and North Midlands, not my idea!!. I used to fly across WMP to get to Staffordshire jobs with Central Countries. Not my idea to scrap units, I know that each Force needs its helicopter for many reasons but it's all about MONEY and the accountants can save money with fewer more widely spread aircraft. I hope not but they may not replace WMP for this very reason
4/ So there is no manpower to respond to an emergency call on a large commercial airfield.
The call from the Devices we used was over our closed radio system, It could have been over Police Tetra, airfield security, or straight to dispatcher, or to all if the unit was a bespoke one. You ring 999 and scream that you are being shot at, see how long it takes to get a unit on scene. How long does it take to run 50m and throw a fire bomb? These systems are good but an alarm is just noise it doesn't do anything and it won't deter or scare a criminal intent on knocking out a threat to his way of life.
5/ The helio appears to be written off or close to how many mill £?Insured they don't care!!how long for replacement?Months if not years to spec and build a new machine. Good excuse not to replace it. Not me in charge..
6/ Thunderbird trolley is in use with some forces I believe. WMP don't have a hangar to put it in so a trolley no good. How long is the average vehicle pursuit? And you want to drag the aircraft out first? Back to ringing 999 "Thank you for your call. We will be with you once the ARVs are taken out of the garage. There will be a delay as we have to shut the doors again otherwise people will criticise us on the internet for not protecting our valueable equipment.
7/How long before the next attack ? now it appears so easy?Hopefully not soon if the lessons are learnt from this. Life is an evolution, we find something hurts so we don't do it again. Man has been doing that for millions of years. .
I hope this answers your questions? If you read my original post I explained it's now things are. Hopefully all the critics will be volunteering to be Special Constables, RNLI or Coast Guard volunteers etc. to help improve society? Thought not.
By the way, how much are you selling the Sentry unit for?
2/ The cost of the Sentry or some other device is more expensive than the insurance excess. Again didn't say that. Surrey had the system (or similar) and got attacked. These systems are good but if they keep going off then they soon get ignored. And they only tell you there is an intruder, or rabbit, and you then have to do something about it. Note: Not the case at Surrey
The excess will be paid by taxpayer & or every private helio owner in increased premiums, + the insurers must be getting wary of insuring these machines as this is not the first that has been attacked. Is there an excess? None on our 4 helicopters. If no Police helicopter was attacked then the premium will say the same. At the time it was unthinkable that an aircraft be attacked (no power of hindsight). What would be the premium increase be if attacked (unthinkable at the time) against cost of protecting? It's all about RISK. Are you worried about other peoples excess if you lose something or crash your car and it's your fault? If it is your fault do you accept the loss and don't claim? Again modern society doesn't give a damn about anyone else.
3/ There is an added cost in public safety, not to mention hire charges if one is available? or time to incident if you use cover from another force, + the loss of use to neighbouring force. Risk v Cost again. There is alot more mutual support going on than you know. There is also a review of ASUs going on in ACPO at the moment and they are using a geographical plot and not force area for the distribution of Air Support. WMP could be covered by Central Counties, East Midlands and North Midlands, not my idea!!. I used to fly across WMP to get to Staffordshire jobs with Central Countries. Not my idea to scrap units, I know that each Force needs its helicopter for many reasons but it's all about MONEY and the accountants can save money with fewer more widely spread aircraft. I hope not but they may not replace WMP for this very reason
4/ So there is no manpower to respond to an emergency call on a large commercial airfield.
The call from the Devices we used was over our closed radio system, It could have been over Police Tetra, airfield security, or straight to dispatcher, or to all if the unit was a bespoke one. You ring 999 and scream that you are being shot at, see how long it takes to get a unit on scene. How long does it take to run 50m and throw a fire bomb? These systems are good but an alarm is just noise it doesn't do anything and it won't deter or scare a criminal intent on knocking out a threat to his way of life.
5/ The helio appears to be written off or close to how many mill £?Insured they don't care!!how long for replacement?Months if not years to spec and build a new machine. Good excuse not to replace it. Not me in charge..
6/ Thunderbird trolley is in use with some forces I believe. WMP don't have a hangar to put it in so a trolley no good. How long is the average vehicle pursuit? And you want to drag the aircraft out first? Back to ringing 999 "Thank you for your call. We will be with you once the ARVs are taken out of the garage. There will be a delay as we have to shut the doors again otherwise people will criticise us on the internet for not protecting our valueable equipment.
7/How long before the next attack ? now it appears so easy?Hopefully not soon if the lessons are learnt from this. Life is an evolution, we find something hurts so we don't do it again. Man has been doing that for millions of years. .
I hope this answers your questions? If you read my original post I explained it's now things are. Hopefully all the critics will be volunteering to be Special Constables, RNLI or Coast Guard volunteers etc. to help improve society? Thought not.
By the way, how much are you selling the Sentry unit for?
Cost is always a consideration....no matter where you are in the world.
Ask yourself this question....if the aircraft is replaced....what changes will be made in the security setup that exists now?
What changes will other Police Units do as well?
They will not get rid of the aircraft as they play a valuable role but they will improve the security at some cost. Otherwise the next time a successful attack takes place the management will be looking like monkeys for sure.
What costs resulted from the attack in question? Add in the loss of capability that will exist until the replacement aircraft is obtained....put a Pound Sterling cost to that!
Add in the embarrassment factor....both for the Police and the Airport.
Now add in the costs that are bound to occur when other airports begin to reassess their own security arrangements.
This has been an "expensive" event beyond the non-budget expenditures that were caused to the Police Air Unit.
No matter how one winds up with a foot in a pile of dung....you have to accept the fact you put it there.
Ask yourself this question....if the aircraft is replaced....what changes will be made in the security setup that exists now?
What changes will other Police Units do as well?
They will not get rid of the aircraft as they play a valuable role but they will improve the security at some cost. Otherwise the next time a successful attack takes place the management will be looking like monkeys for sure.
What costs resulted from the attack in question? Add in the loss of capability that will exist until the replacement aircraft is obtained....put a Pound Sterling cost to that!
Add in the embarrassment factor....both for the Police and the Airport.
Now add in the costs that are bound to occur when other airports begin to reassess their own security arrangements.
This has been an "expensive" event beyond the non-budget expenditures that were caused to the Police Air Unit.
No matter how one winds up with a foot in a pile of dung....you have to accept the fact you put it there.
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"...No matter how one winds up with a foot in a pile of dung....you have to accept the fact you put it there..."
Indeed it has....for 22 years without incident.
Hnh
Indeed it has....for 22 years without incident.
Hnh
With so many CCTV cameras watching the rest of us,couldn`t they have borrowed a couple ?
I guess all the Astras,Mondeos,Subarus,BMWs are all safely tucked up in garages at night in case they get torched.
I think the dung is over more than the foot..,or perhaps it`s well and truly been shot off. Any resignations in the offing ?
Remember the phrase`A man and his dog....and perhaps a scattergun`.
I guess all the Astras,Mondeos,Subarus,BMWs are all safely tucked up in garages at night in case they get torched.
I think the dung is over more than the foot..,or perhaps it`s well and truly been shot off. Any resignations in the offing ?
Remember the phrase`A man and his dog....and perhaps a scattergun`.
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It seems that the concensus is not who did it but hang those that own it !
Amazing sad look at society today... The wrong doers get away again but do we care...it seems not.. very sad and possibly my last word on this as it seems you just want someone to blame...but not the offenders
Amazing sad look at society today... The wrong doers get away again but do we care...it seems not.. very sad and possibly my last word on this as it seems you just want someone to blame...but not the offenders
Sorry but I fail to see how its a Police security problem, they are meant to be protected by Airport security and the cab is on an International airport ffs! If the Airport/Aircraft cannot be protected properly then the DoT needs to be sorting this one out before other more attractive targets are attacked.
Show us one post...one sentence from a post anywhere in this thread that suggests this.....just one please!
How have the perps "gotten away with it again"? The investigation is still on-going iddn'it?
We will happily accept that as being your last word.....please!
How have the perps "gotten away with it again"? The investigation is still on-going iddn'it?
We will happily accept that as being your last word.....please!
It seems that the concensus is not who did it but hang those that own it !
Amazing sad look at society today... The wrong doers get away again but do we care...it seems not.. very sad and possibly my last word on this as it seems you just want someone to blame...but not the offenders
Amazing sad look at society today... The wrong doers get away again but do we care...it seems not.. very sad and possibly my last word on this as it seems you just want someone to blame...but not the offenders
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2 snots
it's apparent that he used to be a Police Pilot (as355 if I recall correctly). So, presumably, he does have a clue.
Grow up girls. Like you have never been a victim of crime. They want it they will have it. I think you need to blame the system and poor sentences.
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I think that the blame for the break in /arson attack lies squarely with the airport security. (or lack of it) In one part of the airport they have little old ladies and airline pilots taking off their belts and shoes and at the other you can spend 20 minutes or so cutting through a chain link fence unchallenged. Maybe if the scrotes had some contact lens fluid or nail clippers about their person they would have been caught.
Major airlines don't need to employ additional security to protect their aircraft within the airfield boundary, why should the Police ?
I wonder if the officers received a Victim Support Helpline Card ?
Major airlines don't need to employ additional security to protect their aircraft within the airfield boundary, why should the Police ?
I wonder if the officers received a Victim Support Helpline Card ?
Avoid imitations
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I do honestly think that this time frame even when applied to Poli$e work would be sufficient.