Would you become a Professional Pilot again?
Gatvol
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DesertDude
Good On ya. At least this Thread hasnt been a gang war. We may have to get Flare and talk about this over a Beer in some Mesican Taco joint someday. Or at our Annual gathering in the sand on New Years between Maricopa and Gila Bend. Bring yer own Sauce and Airplane.
Good On ya. At least this Thread hasnt been a gang war. We may have to get Flare and talk about this over a Beer in some Mesican Taco joint someday. Or at our Annual gathering in the sand on New Years between Maricopa and Gila Bend. Bring yer own Sauce and Airplane.
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ADDICTION!!!!
I just wish the general pay for helo pilots would rise to a just level sometime.
As long as people feed their addiction with working for nearly free, I do not see a lot of hope though!!
3top
I just wish the general pay for helo pilots would rise to a just level sometime.
As long as people feed their addiction with working for nearly free, I do not see a lot of hope though!!
3top
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Would I do it again? This is such an interesting question that it actually took me back through my entire career.
I remember working in Memphis flying for $500.00 a month and no benefits. I was actually ashamed to tell my girl friends at the time how much I made as a "Helicopter Pilot". They all thought I made plenty, but then I am sure they wondered why I drove a run down second hand Volkwagon that had to be pushed off half the time because the starter only worked part time.
I remember getting married and my wife having to work so we could afford rent and groceries, but at least everyone "thought" I was a high paid helicopter pilot. Never told anyone what I made, too embarassing. Been married for 29 years now so she must not have minded too much.
I remember learning that the pilots at Ft. Rucker were making three times as much as me and had real benefits. Of course I had been married for five years when I discovered this and had a son to take care of then.
I remember getting my first paycheck at Rucker and thinking I was the richest man in town. I also remember how much those insurance benefits meant to me as a young family man with a wife and son to take care of.
I also remember discovering a few months ago that I am now making less spending money today than I was back then. I knew for some reason that even though I was getting raises on a regular basis, my money just wasn't going as far today as it did back then. Consequently I did a little research and found that even with the raises I had received, my actual spending power was being reduced by the cost of living rising faster than my wages. I figured I actually have $3,000.00 plus dollars less to spend today than I had in 1986. So basically I have been losing money in this profession for the last fourteen years.
Do I love the job? Of course I do. Would I do it again? Maybe with hindsight, if I thought I could effect changes sooner than what we have experienced so far in the profession.
Butch
I remember working in Memphis flying for $500.00 a month and no benefits. I was actually ashamed to tell my girl friends at the time how much I made as a "Helicopter Pilot". They all thought I made plenty, but then I am sure they wondered why I drove a run down second hand Volkwagon that had to be pushed off half the time because the starter only worked part time.
I remember getting married and my wife having to work so we could afford rent and groceries, but at least everyone "thought" I was a high paid helicopter pilot. Never told anyone what I made, too embarassing. Been married for 29 years now so she must not have minded too much.
I remember learning that the pilots at Ft. Rucker were making three times as much as me and had real benefits. Of course I had been married for five years when I discovered this and had a son to take care of then.
I remember getting my first paycheck at Rucker and thinking I was the richest man in town. I also remember how much those insurance benefits meant to me as a young family man with a wife and son to take care of.
I also remember discovering a few months ago that I am now making less spending money today than I was back then. I knew for some reason that even though I was getting raises on a regular basis, my money just wasn't going as far today as it did back then. Consequently I did a little research and found that even with the raises I had received, my actual spending power was being reduced by the cost of living rising faster than my wages. I figured I actually have $3,000.00 plus dollars less to spend today than I had in 1986. So basically I have been losing money in this profession for the last fourteen years.
Do I love the job? Of course I do. Would I do it again? Maybe with hindsight, if I thought I could effect changes sooner than what we have experienced so far in the profession.
Butch
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Tomorrow morning i will get up,give my son his breakfast and kiss my wife on the way out the door.I will get in my little car and drive to the airport.I will then make my way to the hangar in about 38*c + find out if it is my turn to fly (2 crew operation) and if so i will check the weather,notams,read and initial files,etc before i make my way to the line office where i will check which aircraft i am due to fly,go outside,preflight,sign the techlog and then grab a coffee and wait for the call to say that the pax are ready.
I have been doing this or similar in crew rooms from the Irish Sea,to the west atlantic,to the north sea,to St.Georges channel,to the USA,to the middle east for 20 years.I have been lucky enough to have flown both fixed wing and rotary both as a crewman and as a pilot.
I have been soaked,frozen and baked over that period of time on innumerable occasions and have cursed and ranted on about why the hell i ever got into this business
Money has never been a factor except now with the responsibility of a family to consider, i have to be conscious about what i earn.
So why am i sitting up in the middle of the night writing this ?
Because one day i looked up into the sky and saw a silver bird go over my head and i knew(if a 5 year old can know) that somehow i had to get my feet of the ground and into that sky.Years of building model aircraft,days sitting at the fence below the threshhold during school holidays,scrounging pocket money to buy Flight and poring over those old photographs of past airshows,classic aeroplanes and classic pilots.
And here i am,flying for 20 years and still looking up for the silverbird or any flying machine that happens to drone by.
Helicopters,i love them.I made a conscious choice to go the rotary route and have never regretted it.They are the nearest thing to levitiation that we can find.Fixed wing,i love them,nothing like diping a wingtip into a fluffy cu on a summers evening and seeing a students face light up.This is the kind of flying i like to do and i don't feel like i have missed out on anything.
Flying,what is there to say except that apart from my wife and son nothing has given me as much pleasure and frustration,boredom and excitement,fun and challange in my life.
So for thoses of you who are fed up with your lives as helicopter pilots or as fixed wing pilots perhaps you need to be looking elsewhere or perhaps you need to look back and try to find what you have lost.I do not regard myself as an underachiever or an overachiever,i have a job that is also my hobby,so i am lucky.
Would i start all over again ? absolutely. Would i favour rotary over fixed wing ? Yes if i want to remain having fun in what i do.Thats whats good for me,it doesn't necessarily mean that it is good for someone else.There have been many post from people who have done it the military way,the self improver way,those who like it,those who don't.Each to there own so long as they get something out of it and don't snipe at those who are not in their camp.
Je ne regrete rien !
I have been doing this or similar in crew rooms from the Irish Sea,to the west atlantic,to the north sea,to St.Georges channel,to the USA,to the middle east for 20 years.I have been lucky enough to have flown both fixed wing and rotary both as a crewman and as a pilot.
I have been soaked,frozen and baked over that period of time on innumerable occasions and have cursed and ranted on about why the hell i ever got into this business
Money has never been a factor except now with the responsibility of a family to consider, i have to be conscious about what i earn.
So why am i sitting up in the middle of the night writing this ?
Because one day i looked up into the sky and saw a silver bird go over my head and i knew(if a 5 year old can know) that somehow i had to get my feet of the ground and into that sky.Years of building model aircraft,days sitting at the fence below the threshhold during school holidays,scrounging pocket money to buy Flight and poring over those old photographs of past airshows,classic aeroplanes and classic pilots.
And here i am,flying for 20 years and still looking up for the silverbird or any flying machine that happens to drone by.
Helicopters,i love them.I made a conscious choice to go the rotary route and have never regretted it.They are the nearest thing to levitiation that we can find.Fixed wing,i love them,nothing like diping a wingtip into a fluffy cu on a summers evening and seeing a students face light up.This is the kind of flying i like to do and i don't feel like i have missed out on anything.
Flying,what is there to say except that apart from my wife and son nothing has given me as much pleasure and frustration,boredom and excitement,fun and challange in my life.
So for thoses of you who are fed up with your lives as helicopter pilots or as fixed wing pilots perhaps you need to be looking elsewhere or perhaps you need to look back and try to find what you have lost.I do not regard myself as an underachiever or an overachiever,i have a job that is also my hobby,so i am lucky.
Would i start all over again ? absolutely. Would i favour rotary over fixed wing ? Yes if i want to remain having fun in what i do.Thats whats good for me,it doesn't necessarily mean that it is good for someone else.There have been many post from people who have done it the military way,the self improver way,those who like it,those who don't.Each to there own so long as they get something out of it and don't snipe at those who are not in their camp.
Je ne regrete rien !
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helicopter.com training page
I recall reading at helicopter.com that as your experience goes up and you get into better aircraft of greater value that often the number of flight hours per week goes down. So its just the initial thousand hours or more of effort thats the hurdle.. I'm thinking specifically of a job flying people from new york city to the hamptons out on long island, as you aren't offshore somewhere at an oil rig or yanking logs out of the ground all week long but just acting as a courier for rich business men going out to their vacation homes on the weekend, looking to beat the road traffic that always builds up for hours on end down below. Does anyone know how much this particular job pays, and the hours, or one like it? With the cost of aircraft so high and regular maintenance for certification to go with it, its a shame pilots are somehow kept out of the money loop.
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B Sousa and Flare.
Why didn't you haul your a** into another profession?
I admit that I didn't read the whole thread but most of it, seems that I missed something important out?
I really have to agree with the so many helicopter drivers here who actually like their jobs. It is an affection or maybe I should say its becomes an addiction.
My job is very interesting "me thinks" tomorrow can never be expected to be like today was. F.ex. it consist of flight training, aerial photography and filming, sightseeing, geological survey, laning on top of glaciers and I can go on forever. I get a decent paycheck for what I do and that is the bottom line.
One can always question what others have contributed to society. One day I was fortunate enought to be able to show a very old woman a glacier for the very first and maybe the very last time in her life. I find that very fulfilling and like the feeling when I come home at night.
After all helicopter flying is "just" a job and of course we should get well paid. It will always be the fuel for flaming discussions about pilots wages. My theory is: if you don't like it, try something else. You can always try to figure it out why people decide to become heli pilots and stay in that job for the rest of their lives. Some people want to do it and some don't.
I believe that everyone can change carrers if they don't like their current one.
Helicopter flying is not for everyone I think and beeing a lawyer isn't either. I don't think that it is fair to call helicopter pilots "under achievers" just because they want to work in this business.
I know that many of us could have gotten a into something else but as some have said that they made the decision on becoming heli pilots and stand by their decisions. I am very happy to be a helicopter pilot, I could have done everything else but I decided not to.
Best wishes,
Heli-Ice
Ps. Bert, I don't post only to have my name in here, I just found the need to defend myself.
Why didn't you haul your a** into another profession?
I admit that I didn't read the whole thread but most of it, seems that I missed something important out?
I really have to agree with the so many helicopter drivers here who actually like their jobs. It is an affection or maybe I should say its becomes an addiction.
My job is very interesting "me thinks" tomorrow can never be expected to be like today was. F.ex. it consist of flight training, aerial photography and filming, sightseeing, geological survey, laning on top of glaciers and I can go on forever. I get a decent paycheck for what I do and that is the bottom line.
One can always question what others have contributed to society. One day I was fortunate enought to be able to show a very old woman a glacier for the very first and maybe the very last time in her life. I find that very fulfilling and like the feeling when I come home at night.
After all helicopter flying is "just" a job and of course we should get well paid. It will always be the fuel for flaming discussions about pilots wages. My theory is: if you don't like it, try something else. You can always try to figure it out why people decide to become heli pilots and stay in that job for the rest of their lives. Some people want to do it and some don't.
I believe that everyone can change carrers if they don't like their current one.
Helicopter flying is not for everyone I think and beeing a lawyer isn't either. I don't think that it is fair to call helicopter pilots "under achievers" just because they want to work in this business.
I know that many of us could have gotten a into something else but as some have said that they made the decision on becoming heli pilots and stand by their decisions. I am very happy to be a helicopter pilot, I could have done everything else but I decided not to.
Best wishes,
Heli-Ice
Ps. Bert, I don't post only to have my name in here, I just found the need to defend myself.
I once had enough of flying helicopters and all that it entailed....invested some money into a hard wood sawmill business in Washington State.
At the time, I deemed it right to get a commerical drivers license to complement all the flying licenses I had. Heavens, I even drove truck for a period of time until one day the cellphone rang and one of the reasons I had left helicoptering offered me a flying job.....and I accepted.
The whole time I drove the truck, people asked me if I were crazy for not being in flying......really didn't have a good reply for that except it was easier to tell my dear Mum that I was a trucker than have to lie to her and tell her I played piano in a brothel (knowing her son was a chopper pilot would have broken the old dear's heart!). So here I am again, flying helicopters, lying to Mum, and now I am asking myself if I am crazy for not being a truck driver!
The main differences I can see between the two jobs, is the air horn.....and management at trucking companies know good drivers are not a dime a dozen.
Ever wonder why we get the managers we do? How dedicated they seem to be at furthering the welfare of the boys and girls that fly and maintain the aircraft! (Not!) It is said at a "Bitter Helicopter Company" in the Gulf Coast.....that pilots feel like they are at war with the management......wonder what a warm feeling the managers must have to know the staff made public those sentiments to the CEO during a company wide visit.
At least in the big truck....when I tooted my train horns....I could get people's attention! What does it take in the helicopter industry to get people's attention?
The union movement in the Gulf Coast has made a significant change in pilot pay and in time will also work to improve the work environment as well if the pilots work together towards that goal. Hopefully, at least one group of pilots can get the attention they deserve from management. The rest of the story is the union could have been avoided by good management alone.
At the time, I deemed it right to get a commerical drivers license to complement all the flying licenses I had. Heavens, I even drove truck for a period of time until one day the cellphone rang and one of the reasons I had left helicoptering offered me a flying job.....and I accepted.
The whole time I drove the truck, people asked me if I were crazy for not being in flying......really didn't have a good reply for that except it was easier to tell my dear Mum that I was a trucker than have to lie to her and tell her I played piano in a brothel (knowing her son was a chopper pilot would have broken the old dear's heart!). So here I am again, flying helicopters, lying to Mum, and now I am asking myself if I am crazy for not being a truck driver!
The main differences I can see between the two jobs, is the air horn.....and management at trucking companies know good drivers are not a dime a dozen.
Ever wonder why we get the managers we do? How dedicated they seem to be at furthering the welfare of the boys and girls that fly and maintain the aircraft! (Not!) It is said at a "Bitter Helicopter Company" in the Gulf Coast.....that pilots feel like they are at war with the management......wonder what a warm feeling the managers must have to know the staff made public those sentiments to the CEO during a company wide visit.
At least in the big truck....when I tooted my train horns....I could get people's attention! What does it take in the helicopter industry to get people's attention?
The union movement in the Gulf Coast has made a significant change in pilot pay and in time will also work to improve the work environment as well if the pilots work together towards that goal. Hopefully, at least one group of pilots can get the attention they deserve from management. The rest of the story is the union could have been avoided by good management alone.
Gatvol
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Heli-Ice
You obviously have not read the entire thread and must be posting to see your name in Print.
Helicopter Flying is great, its fun, its personally rewarding, BUT it needs some improvement in the items mentioned on page one (1)<<<<thats the first page...
You obviously have not read the entire thread and must be posting to see your name in Print.
Helicopter Flying is great, its fun, its personally rewarding, BUT it needs some improvement in the items mentioned on page one (1)<<<<thats the first page...
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So far I've only made it to the second page of this thread and I'm sure I'll have more to say but I must reply to Flare Dammit.
You tell this kid to "go for the airlines" like it is the ultimate and INEVITABLE end goal of a fixed-wing career. What a load of bull****. Compare the number of airplane licences in any country to airline jobs and you'll discover a lot of these people are not in the big iron. The bottom end of airplane flying has INVARIABLY, in my experience, been far worse than anything I've seen in rotary aviation.
Low-time instructors who should be out learning how to fly are working for minimum wage, passing their inexperience on to the next crop of dreamers. The next few steps up are just as low-paid all because the CHOSEN FEW make some ungodly sum of money in their golden airliners. And all along the way the employers and outsiders encourage this idea that all the crap is justified because of this mythical golden ring.
You said that there are perhaps 100 such DREAM JOBS as DesertDude had in the industry. Pardon me? I work for a company with stock purchase plans, good wages by the standard of the society I live in, pension plan, medical, equal time schedule, and on and on. And there are 120 pilots IN THIS COMPANY ALONE. I've had VFR jobs that had even better benefits. One of the best VFR companies I worked for had 90 pilots employed.
If your inner child needs to make a quarter million dollars a year in order to feel adequate then good for you, but that has NOTHING to do with the industries we are talking about.
If this kid decides that he wants to try to accomplish something with his life and decides that a 747 captaincy is his end goal, I'll applaud his ambition and do my best to give good advice. But I would also council him on how UNLIKELY his goal is of being realized. Just like I would say the same to a prospective helicopter pilot who decides he wants to be a west-coast helilogger making the big coin in the front of a chinook.
If we have gone through years of pain and suffering in our various jobs then WE HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT. On the other hand I have voted with my feet or in less severe cases just called someone's bluff when he said fly or get fired.
Compare apples with apples or stay away from the next generation of pilots.
Given the choice of 747 Captain or Puma Offshore IFR Captain, my choice was and IS easy.
What do you think it is??
You tell this kid to "go for the airlines" like it is the ultimate and INEVITABLE end goal of a fixed-wing career. What a load of bull****. Compare the number of airplane licences in any country to airline jobs and you'll discover a lot of these people are not in the big iron. The bottom end of airplane flying has INVARIABLY, in my experience, been far worse than anything I've seen in rotary aviation.
Low-time instructors who should be out learning how to fly are working for minimum wage, passing their inexperience on to the next crop of dreamers. The next few steps up are just as low-paid all because the CHOSEN FEW make some ungodly sum of money in their golden airliners. And all along the way the employers and outsiders encourage this idea that all the crap is justified because of this mythical golden ring.
You said that there are perhaps 100 such DREAM JOBS as DesertDude had in the industry. Pardon me? I work for a company with stock purchase plans, good wages by the standard of the society I live in, pension plan, medical, equal time schedule, and on and on. And there are 120 pilots IN THIS COMPANY ALONE. I've had VFR jobs that had even better benefits. One of the best VFR companies I worked for had 90 pilots employed.
If your inner child needs to make a quarter million dollars a year in order to feel adequate then good for you, but that has NOTHING to do with the industries we are talking about.
If this kid decides that he wants to try to accomplish something with his life and decides that a 747 captaincy is his end goal, I'll applaud his ambition and do my best to give good advice. But I would also council him on how UNLIKELY his goal is of being realized. Just like I would say the same to a prospective helicopter pilot who decides he wants to be a west-coast helilogger making the big coin in the front of a chinook.
If we have gone through years of pain and suffering in our various jobs then WE HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT. On the other hand I have voted with my feet or in less severe cases just called someone's bluff when he said fly or get fired.
Compare apples with apples or stay away from the next generation of pilots.
Given the choice of 747 Captain or Puma Offshore IFR Captain, my choice was and IS easy.
What do you think it is??
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HeloTeacher wrote:
"Given the choice of 747 Captain or Puma Offshore IFR Captain, my choice was and IS easy.
What do you think it is??"
Well, judging by what a nitwit you are, I'd say helicopter pilot.
It's amazing how helicopter pilots get their panties all in a wad when someone says that we have a sucky career.
To tell an aspiring pilot that making it to the airlines is an impossible dream, or even a ridiculously impractical dream is just nonsense. Just look at how many pilots are employed by the domestic U.S. airlines alone, then look at the number of commercial helicopter jobs in the U.S. Now tell me that the odds of acheiving "success" in both are the same. Get real.
To prejudge that someone will have the abject and irrational love of helicopters that "success" in our industry requires, and he/she will therefore have a "better life" or "enjoy flying more" or any of that other crap I've heard spewed on this forum is just crazy. The original poster of this interminable thread is simply a guy at the beginning of his career who wanted to compare the jobs with an eye toward pursuing one or the other. Then all these helicopter pilots started waxing poetic about their loser, low-paying jobs and how great they are, and what fun old Rob Powell will have if he'll just "go helicopters" and how helicopters compare favorably to flying with the airlines.
Yeah, well...maybe. Then again, maybe not. YMMV, as they say.
I wonder why it's so impossible for helicopter pilots to think that someone would find any other line of work enjoyable? I wonder why helicopter pilots feel so adamantly that they themselves would never find happiness in any other job? (What kind of a ridiculous, self-imposed limitation is that??) ...And why some of them continue in the field for THIRTY YEARS at a pay level that most non-aviators would find laughably pathetic? Helicopter pilots frequently refer to their avocations as "addictions," then get all uppity and defensive when told that most addictions (drugs, internet porn, masturbation) are psychotic or at very least neurotic. But one needn't be Siggy Freud to know that.
As for myself, although some have presumed arbitrary figures for what I would consider a "decent, honorable, and dignified" salary for what we do, I have never mentioned a specific number. I just think that, in general, helicopter pilots are not paid nearly enough considering the qualifications we have to have to even do our jobs and the risk we take every time we pull up on the collective. It does not equate, and those of you who think it does are simply delusional.
But what I find perpetually and infinitely puzzling is the fact that so many helicopter pilots have this self-defeating attitude that we'll *never* make any more than we make right now. They seem to be indicating that "big bucks" (whatever they are) are elusive and we don't deserve them anyway so why try? I don't know how many helicopter pilots over the years have told me in an exaggerated huff, "Oh, we'll NEVER be able to make good money in this business!" Right! With an attitude like that, we never will!
I am 46. I've been a helicopter pilot for twenty years. I have my fixed-wing ratings. Today, if I started with a commuter airline (never mind shooting for the majors), I could finish out my career making $100,000/year or maybe more. (Who knows where the pay is going to go in the fourteen years I have left?) That's not bad. But more than that, it wouldn't take very long at all until I was at a salary/benefits level that FAR surpassed what I was making during my last year as a helicopter pilot. And yes, salary and benefits are important to me. Hate to burst the bubbles of you guys who think we should do this job for free or at a mere subsistence level.
For a young pilot who is just coming into this industry, the goal of a seat in the pointy-end of an airliner is a worthwhile and attainable one. Yes, you'd have to prostitute yourself for awhile to get into the "good stuff." But unlike helicopters, you wouldn't have to prostitute yourself for your ENTIRE CAREER. And, concomitantly, you wouldn't have to justify prostituting yourself for such a long time that you start believing your own crap.
True, it's not all about money. But it's *SOME* about money, because we all have to eat and adequately take care of our families. And frankly, I'm not all that "addicted" to helicopters. It was great fun and I had a good time. But in the end I saw how selfish I was being. So it's over for me. I wish I had quit a good ten years sooner. Good ten years.
Would I do it again? Sure! But only for a little while. Heh- I may be dumb, and I may love helicopters, but I ain't sick. I'd ultimately go airlines. And you know what? I'd love it just as much as I love helicopters. I'm funny that way; I just love to fly.
"Given the choice of 747 Captain or Puma Offshore IFR Captain, my choice was and IS easy.
What do you think it is??"
Well, judging by what a nitwit you are, I'd say helicopter pilot.
It's amazing how helicopter pilots get their panties all in a wad when someone says that we have a sucky career.
To tell an aspiring pilot that making it to the airlines is an impossible dream, or even a ridiculously impractical dream is just nonsense. Just look at how many pilots are employed by the domestic U.S. airlines alone, then look at the number of commercial helicopter jobs in the U.S. Now tell me that the odds of acheiving "success" in both are the same. Get real.
To prejudge that someone will have the abject and irrational love of helicopters that "success" in our industry requires, and he/she will therefore have a "better life" or "enjoy flying more" or any of that other crap I've heard spewed on this forum is just crazy. The original poster of this interminable thread is simply a guy at the beginning of his career who wanted to compare the jobs with an eye toward pursuing one or the other. Then all these helicopter pilots started waxing poetic about their loser, low-paying jobs and how great they are, and what fun old Rob Powell will have if he'll just "go helicopters" and how helicopters compare favorably to flying with the airlines.
Yeah, well...maybe. Then again, maybe not. YMMV, as they say.
I wonder why it's so impossible for helicopter pilots to think that someone would find any other line of work enjoyable? I wonder why helicopter pilots feel so adamantly that they themselves would never find happiness in any other job? (What kind of a ridiculous, self-imposed limitation is that??) ...And why some of them continue in the field for THIRTY YEARS at a pay level that most non-aviators would find laughably pathetic? Helicopter pilots frequently refer to their avocations as "addictions," then get all uppity and defensive when told that most addictions (drugs, internet porn, masturbation) are psychotic or at very least neurotic. But one needn't be Siggy Freud to know that.
As for myself, although some have presumed arbitrary figures for what I would consider a "decent, honorable, and dignified" salary for what we do, I have never mentioned a specific number. I just think that, in general, helicopter pilots are not paid nearly enough considering the qualifications we have to have to even do our jobs and the risk we take every time we pull up on the collective. It does not equate, and those of you who think it does are simply delusional.
But what I find perpetually and infinitely puzzling is the fact that so many helicopter pilots have this self-defeating attitude that we'll *never* make any more than we make right now. They seem to be indicating that "big bucks" (whatever they are) are elusive and we don't deserve them anyway so why try? I don't know how many helicopter pilots over the years have told me in an exaggerated huff, "Oh, we'll NEVER be able to make good money in this business!" Right! With an attitude like that, we never will!
I am 46. I've been a helicopter pilot for twenty years. I have my fixed-wing ratings. Today, if I started with a commuter airline (never mind shooting for the majors), I could finish out my career making $100,000/year or maybe more. (Who knows where the pay is going to go in the fourteen years I have left?) That's not bad. But more than that, it wouldn't take very long at all until I was at a salary/benefits level that FAR surpassed what I was making during my last year as a helicopter pilot. And yes, salary and benefits are important to me. Hate to burst the bubbles of you guys who think we should do this job for free or at a mere subsistence level.
For a young pilot who is just coming into this industry, the goal of a seat in the pointy-end of an airliner is a worthwhile and attainable one. Yes, you'd have to prostitute yourself for awhile to get into the "good stuff." But unlike helicopters, you wouldn't have to prostitute yourself for your ENTIRE CAREER. And, concomitantly, you wouldn't have to justify prostituting yourself for such a long time that you start believing your own crap.
True, it's not all about money. But it's *SOME* about money, because we all have to eat and adequately take care of our families. And frankly, I'm not all that "addicted" to helicopters. It was great fun and I had a good time. But in the end I saw how selfish I was being. So it's over for me. I wish I had quit a good ten years sooner. Good ten years.
Would I do it again? Sure! But only for a little while. Heh- I may be dumb, and I may love helicopters, but I ain't sick. I'd ultimately go airlines. And you know what? I'd love it just as much as I love helicopters. I'm funny that way; I just love to fly.
Flare: You're at that age where you're questioning everything, especially where you are now and where you should have been by now. You've obviously reached a conclusion and it doesn't rest easy with you. So to help alleviate the dissappointment, you're offloading amongst others around you whom you believe feel the same as you (or should do).
It'll pass, you'll mellow, time will numb the conflict and you'll either knuckle down and get on with it or retire.
Wisdom comes later with some individuals don't be alarmed. Join those of us who are comfortable with our lot, it's painless sunshine...
It'll pass, you'll mellow, time will numb the conflict and you'll either knuckle down and get on with it or retire.
Wisdom comes later with some individuals don't be alarmed. Join those of us who are comfortable with our lot, it's painless sunshine...
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Very well spoken, T. coupling!
Flare, if you're so unhappy and miserable, why are you still hanging around?
Oh, gotta go now, my favorite Pink Floyd song is comin' up: "Brain Damage".
C Ya
Flare, if you're so unhappy and miserable, why are you still hanging around?
Oh, gotta go now, my favorite Pink Floyd song is comin' up: "Brain Damage".
C Ya
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You guys make me laugh. Life is all so black and white for you all, eh? So full of definite and clear extremes and easy decisions. Desert Dude asks, "If you're so unhappy and miserable, why are you hanging around?" Others have voiced alternatives of the same question.
The problem is, it assumes that I am a) unhappy and b) miserable (depressed?). It assumes that I am filled with self-loathing and constantly whip myself over a lifetime of poor career choices. It assumes that I find flying helicopters unbearably unpleasant. The truth, for all you amateur armchair psychologists out there (T. Coupling), is quite different.
As I've said, I love flying, and love flying helicopters. It gives me great joy to know how to do it. The twenty years I've spent doing it (although the last two have only been part-time) have been a gas...fun and thrilling and challenging and all the good that we know it can be. However (now try to follow this), IN RETROSPECT, I see that to do it as long as I did simply was a mistake...a waste of time and that I should have done things differently.
When I came to that conclusion, I changed things - I quit. I never did fly around, angrily thinking, "Gee, I hate my life, hate this job," and I don't now. In fact, now that I fly on my own terms (how much I want to or don't want to), things are a LOT better. My life is now in balance. I will never have another full-time flying job, fixed-wing or rotary.
I'm amused that it actually pisses people off that someone might not be as irrationally addicted to helicopters anymore as they are still. If you don't love it, GET THE HELL OUT! It sounds so resentful and immature.
So kill the messenger if you want to. Some of you need to grow up.
The problem is, it assumes that I am a) unhappy and b) miserable (depressed?). It assumes that I am filled with self-loathing and constantly whip myself over a lifetime of poor career choices. It assumes that I find flying helicopters unbearably unpleasant. The truth, for all you amateur armchair psychologists out there (T. Coupling), is quite different.
As I've said, I love flying, and love flying helicopters. It gives me great joy to know how to do it. The twenty years I've spent doing it (although the last two have only been part-time) have been a gas...fun and thrilling and challenging and all the good that we know it can be. However (now try to follow this), IN RETROSPECT, I see that to do it as long as I did simply was a mistake...a waste of time and that I should have done things differently.
When I came to that conclusion, I changed things - I quit. I never did fly around, angrily thinking, "Gee, I hate my life, hate this job," and I don't now. In fact, now that I fly on my own terms (how much I want to or don't want to), things are a LOT better. My life is now in balance. I will never have another full-time flying job, fixed-wing or rotary.
I'm amused that it actually pisses people off that someone might not be as irrationally addicted to helicopters anymore as they are still. If you don't love it, GET THE HELL OUT! It sounds so resentful and immature.
So kill the messenger if you want to. Some of you need to grow up.
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Very good, Flare. NOW I get it.
Don't know about anyone else, I was simply curious. (After all, I'm the underachieving delusional who's going to get the pro-bono shrinks to work on the wiring harness - you know, things come a little slower to dudes like me).
And, you're right, I was making the assumptions you spoke of, because you sure sounded unhappy. Anyway, the ship sank, let's move on.
Glad to hear you enjoy it again - on your own terms.
Whatever your chosen field, I hope that you get the same satisfaction and personal rewards that I've taken from this one. It's been a good run so far.
(Hey, the same goes for all the rest out there as well)
C Ya
Don't know about anyone else, I was simply curious. (After all, I'm the underachieving delusional who's going to get the pro-bono shrinks to work on the wiring harness - you know, things come a little slower to dudes like me).
And, you're right, I was making the assumptions you spoke of, because you sure sounded unhappy. Anyway, the ship sank, let's move on.
Glad to hear you enjoy it again - on your own terms.
Whatever your chosen field, I hope that you get the same satisfaction and personal rewards that I've taken from this one. It's been a good run so far.
(Hey, the same goes for all the rest out there as well)
C Ya
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Ever since I was a wee boy, I knew I wanted to fly, so at the age of 17, I had the chance to start flying. Fixed wing of course.
For some reason I always looked up to those men in the nice suits flying the big jets. I couldn't think of a better job.
100 something hours later in a c150, I was already bored out of my mind.
Although I still enjoyed being up in the air, I knew that a carreer sitting in an expensive office at 30 something thousand feet, realy wasn't for me.
But I wanted to fly, so the switch to helicopters was made.
Best choice of my life, after that first flight I was hooked, I don't know if most of you guys remember that magical moment of your first helicopter flight, but I will never forget. (we landed in a field! in a field..., no plane could do that!)
The flying was tons of fun, although also very expensive, but hey I was going to make that back within the first year of my first job, right?
Not really, first job took 3 years to come along and just about payed the bills, but who cared, I was flying a helicopter for a living now and enjoying it.
But then I learned more about the industry, I noticed that a lot of the fling wing drivers were complaining about their wages, either just by talking to them or now by reading forums such as this one, and you know what, a lot of the negative atmosphere rubbed of. I still enjoy flying more than anything, but it's the people in the industry bitch'n about how underpaid they are, that are taking the fun out of it. Yes, with my current pay it will still take me 50 years to pay of my tuition, but who cares, I'M HAVING FUN, but just for listening to al the complaining I think I need a pay-increase.
These forums get are a great source of information, and a lot of kids that one day want to be a helicopter pilot, might consider not getting their licence because of the negativity surrounding the job, so we might be losing some really good future pilots.
Maybe a seperate forum to discuss pay would be good, so we keep al the B.S. away from this forum and just keep it about flying...
Just my 2 cents (actualy 1, rest goes to the bank).
Fire away...
For some reason I always looked up to those men in the nice suits flying the big jets. I couldn't think of a better job.
100 something hours later in a c150, I was already bored out of my mind.
Although I still enjoyed being up in the air, I knew that a carreer sitting in an expensive office at 30 something thousand feet, realy wasn't for me.
But I wanted to fly, so the switch to helicopters was made.
Best choice of my life, after that first flight I was hooked, I don't know if most of you guys remember that magical moment of your first helicopter flight, but I will never forget. (we landed in a field! in a field..., no plane could do that!)
The flying was tons of fun, although also very expensive, but hey I was going to make that back within the first year of my first job, right?
Not really, first job took 3 years to come along and just about payed the bills, but who cared, I was flying a helicopter for a living now and enjoying it.
But then I learned more about the industry, I noticed that a lot of the fling wing drivers were complaining about their wages, either just by talking to them or now by reading forums such as this one, and you know what, a lot of the negative atmosphere rubbed of. I still enjoy flying more than anything, but it's the people in the industry bitch'n about how underpaid they are, that are taking the fun out of it. Yes, with my current pay it will still take me 50 years to pay of my tuition, but who cares, I'M HAVING FUN, but just for listening to al the complaining I think I need a pay-increase.
These forums get are a great source of information, and a lot of kids that one day want to be a helicopter pilot, might consider not getting their licence because of the negativity surrounding the job, so we might be losing some really good future pilots.
Maybe a seperate forum to discuss pay would be good, so we keep al the B.S. away from this forum and just keep it about flying...
Just my 2 cents (actualy 1, rest goes to the bank).
Fire away...
Gatvol
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"Yes, with my current pay it will still take me 50 years to pay of my tuition, but who cares, I'M HAVING FUN, but just for listening to al the complaining I think I need a pay-increase."
Almost Canadain,
Check back its not ALL about Low Pay. Im also glad to hear your having so much fun. The statement above is for fun lovers and not those who are concerned about being independant or responsible. Sort of like not reporting an overtorque, because it was only there for a short time.
At Least in Canada you can always fall back on the Government for a stipend/medical in your later years. It seems to be the general feeling amongst a lot of Professions, both in Canada and for certain in the U.S. Those who try to be responsible and plan down the road subsidize the fun lovers in our taxes...
Almost Canadain,
Check back its not ALL about Low Pay. Im also glad to hear your having so much fun. The statement above is for fun lovers and not those who are concerned about being independant or responsible. Sort of like not reporting an overtorque, because it was only there for a short time.
At Least in Canada you can always fall back on the Government for a stipend/medical in your later years. It seems to be the general feeling amongst a lot of Professions, both in Canada and for certain in the U.S. Those who try to be responsible and plan down the road subsidize the fun lovers in our taxes...
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Bert, does having fun really equal being irresponsible?
Sad, very sad.
You don't know me the slightest bit, yet because I still find some pleasure in the job I must be some wacked cowboy pilot who doesn't care about anything.
I can tell you that safety for me is the most important thing on the job, it makes it possible to have fun (without being scared something might happen) and makes me able to come home to wife and 2 kids.
Must be a lot of irresponsible pilots out there, having fun and all that...
Sad, very sad.
You don't know me the slightest bit, yet because I still find some pleasure in the job I must be some wacked cowboy pilot who doesn't care about anything.
I can tell you that safety for me is the most important thing on the job, it makes it possible to have fun (without being scared something might happen) and makes me able to come home to wife and 2 kids.
Must be a lot of irresponsible pilots out there, having fun and all that...
Gatvol
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Dont put the monkey on my back. you stated it would take you the next 50 years to pay things off. Indicates heavily in financial debt. Must have been an exageration. Purpose is to provide for the family then have fun....for me anyway, you have your own choice.
If you put things on these posts lightly you get slammed, ask me Im always getting slammed......
If you put things on these posts lightly you get slammed, ask me Im always getting slammed......