Sikorsky S-92: From Design to Operations
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Just to clarify:
S-92 Serial Numbers 1-5 were prototypes
S-92 Serial Number 006 PHI (Delivered Sept 2004)
Serial Number 007 Wexner (Delivered Sept 2004)
Serial Number 008 PHI (Delivery expected sometime mid November 2004)
HH
S-92 Serial Numbers 1-5 were prototypes
S-92 Serial Number 006 PHI (Delivered Sept 2004)
Serial Number 007 Wexner (Delivered Sept 2004)
Serial Number 008 PHI (Delivery expected sometime mid November 2004)
HH
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Hippolite:
Right! For clarity:
#1 was the ground test vehicle, now retired (the FSI sim has its nose!)
#2 is the first flight vehicle. Was equipped with -6 engines and an electric start system. Neither were chosen for production, now #2 is retired, used as a ground test rig
#3 was the workhorse for FAA cert, still doing duty daily on the latest certification features. It will finish the deice cert in a few weeks.
#4 is now the VH-92 demonstrator, the "Wildcat" with the increased cabin length and the back door. It is doing VH-92 risk reduction work at West Palm (look for some press announcements about the stuff it is doing).
#5 is a prototype at West Palm, doing additional Risk Reduction work for the VH-92.
Right! For clarity:
#1 was the ground test vehicle, now retired (the FSI sim has its nose!)
#2 is the first flight vehicle. Was equipped with -6 engines and an electric start system. Neither were chosen for production, now #2 is retired, used as a ground test rig
#3 was the workhorse for FAA cert, still doing duty daily on the latest certification features. It will finish the deice cert in a few weeks.
#4 is now the VH-92 demonstrator, the "Wildcat" with the increased cabin length and the back door. It is doing VH-92 risk reduction work at West Palm (look for some press announcements about the stuff it is doing).
#5 is a prototype at West Palm, doing additional Risk Reduction work for the VH-92.
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Nick:
Re your post on disposition of the S-92 prototypes:
I'm a little disconnected from the industry now, but still curious. (I've been to the Shearwater Airshow several times, but not this year)
Given the retirement of #2, does that mean all flying S-92s now have the modified tail?
I'm also curious about the de-ice. I thought I heard that you had delivered an S-92 to a British customer, and assumed that meant de-ice cert was complete. Is the upcoming set of tests the final step before FAR 29 certification for flight into known icing? Will that make the S-92 the first US helicopter with full deicing certification?
I have heard the EH101 Cormorant still doesn't have full approval from Canadian DND.
Also, I thought that the VXX risk reduction activities were all paper design, and without flight trials, set up primarily to delay decision until post Presidential election. (Probably doesn't feel like that to insiders burning the midnight oil to spend the money and make progress!)
It's interesting that your VXX has a bigger cabin. Will that be offered to Canada for the H-92 (or is the #5 aircraft going to be used as an H-92 prototype) ?
Re your post on disposition of the S-92 prototypes:
I'm a little disconnected from the industry now, but still curious. (I've been to the Shearwater Airshow several times, but not this year)
Given the retirement of #2, does that mean all flying S-92s now have the modified tail?
I'm also curious about the de-ice. I thought I heard that you had delivered an S-92 to a British customer, and assumed that meant de-ice cert was complete. Is the upcoming set of tests the final step before FAR 29 certification for flight into known icing? Will that make the S-92 the first US helicopter with full deicing certification?
I have heard the EH101 Cormorant still doesn't have full approval from Canadian DND.
Also, I thought that the VXX risk reduction activities were all paper design, and without flight trials, set up primarily to delay decision until post Presidential election. (Probably doesn't feel like that to insiders burning the midnight oil to spend the money and make progress!)
It's interesting that your VXX has a bigger cabin. Will that be offered to Canada for the H-92 (or is the #5 aircraft going to be used as an H-92 prototype) ?
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What is the exact definition of "risk reduction" in this context ?.
Does it involve revisiting the basic stress calcs for the flight critical items , or as mentioned above does it entail additional flight and or fatigue testing ?. What are the specified failure rates for the VMX and how do they compare to the civilian requirements .
Will some components that are on condition in the S92 be given retirement lives for the pres fleet?.
Does it involve revisiting the basic stress calcs for the flight critical items , or as mentioned above does it entail additional flight and or fatigue testing ?. What are the specified failure rates for the VMX and how do they compare to the civilian requirements .
Will some components that are on condition in the S92 be given retirement lives for the pres fleet?.
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Jboy asked = Q
Nick answers = A
Q=Given the retirement of #2, does that mean all flying S-92s now have the modified tail?
A= Yes, we made a few tails in Bridgeport to fit the prototypes so we could have the exact aerodynamc configuration for certification..
Q= I thought I heard that you had delivered an S-92 to a British customer, and assumed that meant de-ice cert was complete. Is the upcoming set of tests the final step before FAR 29 certification for flight into known icing?
A= We started testing late last season, so we only got about 80% of the points needed for cert (in spite of the crew chasing every ice cloud in Northern Canada!) We plan to finish at the beginning of this season (starting in a few weeks).
Q= Will that make the S-92 the first US helicopter with full deicing certification?
A= I think so. Also, since the French authorities will not share their certification data or methods with FAA, and thus the certification basis they chose is completely unknown, it could be the first civil cert that teaches us all how to do it. (this comment does not mean the French system isn't efective, pilot reports say it seems to work quite well.)
Q= I have heard the EH101 Cormorant still doesn't have full approval from Canadian DND.
A= Dunno this one. Ppruners?
Q= Also, I thought that the VXX risk reduction activities were all paper design, and without flight trials, set up primarily to delay decision until post Presidential election.
A= We are flying all kinds of good stuff, some of it very nice for future civil use. Can't spill the beans, we are preparing a press release in a few days.
Q= It's interesting that your VXX has a bigger cabin. Will that be offered to Canada for the H-92 (or is the #5 aircraft going to be used as an H-92 prototype) ?
A= The bigger cabin is made so by extending the cabin floor into the volume now occupied by the ramp, and provides 4.9 feet more length. This makes the volume of the H-92 almost exactly the same as the EH-101 (not precisely the "one third" difference the numberically challenged salesmen from the other side tout!) Canada equipment and storage fits very well in the H-92 without the extension (because the ramp is used as storage volume). We will do some of the Canada work on 5, some on 3 and some on 4. Lots of aircraft and time to get it done.
Nick answers = A
Q=Given the retirement of #2, does that mean all flying S-92s now have the modified tail?
A= Yes, we made a few tails in Bridgeport to fit the prototypes so we could have the exact aerodynamc configuration for certification..
Q= I thought I heard that you had delivered an S-92 to a British customer, and assumed that meant de-ice cert was complete. Is the upcoming set of tests the final step before FAR 29 certification for flight into known icing?
A= We started testing late last season, so we only got about 80% of the points needed for cert (in spite of the crew chasing every ice cloud in Northern Canada!) We plan to finish at the beginning of this season (starting in a few weeks).
Q= Will that make the S-92 the first US helicopter with full deicing certification?
A= I think so. Also, since the French authorities will not share their certification data or methods with FAA, and thus the certification basis they chose is completely unknown, it could be the first civil cert that teaches us all how to do it. (this comment does not mean the French system isn't efective, pilot reports say it seems to work quite well.)
Q= I have heard the EH101 Cormorant still doesn't have full approval from Canadian DND.
A= Dunno this one. Ppruners?
Q= Also, I thought that the VXX risk reduction activities were all paper design, and without flight trials, set up primarily to delay decision until post Presidential election.
A= We are flying all kinds of good stuff, some of it very nice for future civil use. Can't spill the beans, we are preparing a press release in a few days.
Q= It's interesting that your VXX has a bigger cabin. Will that be offered to Canada for the H-92 (or is the #5 aircraft going to be used as an H-92 prototype) ?
A= The bigger cabin is made so by extending the cabin floor into the volume now occupied by the ramp, and provides 4.9 feet more length. This makes the volume of the H-92 almost exactly the same as the EH-101 (not precisely the "one third" difference the numberically challenged salesmen from the other side tout!) Canada equipment and storage fits very well in the H-92 without the extension (because the ramp is used as storage volume). We will do some of the Canada work on 5, some on 3 and some on 4. Lots of aircraft and time to get it done.
Last edited by NickLappos; 16th Nov 2004 at 11:57.
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Nick can you point me to some pics or a MPEG of Sea hawk blades folding , found a link to Smiths who make the actuators but no pictures of helicopter with blades folded . I assume the S92 will have system similar to the Seahawk
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Having watched the S92 develop over the years and seeing a lot of data when i was in europe on the type i think Sikorsky have got i right with the 92 , I worked on Blackhawks for six years and said if Sikorsky could develop a Fathawk it would be a winner ,then along came the 92 , i've been on S pumas the last 8 years and they are not even in the same ball park, weather they be 332L,L1, L2 or 225 they are all a good generation behind the 92. Not that i will see a 92 in Australia soon we get all the junk from Europe and North America as hand me downs.
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H-92 Canadian Contract Signed
Canadian Forces Maritime Helicopter
OTTAWA, Nov. 23 /CNW Telbec/ - The Government of Canada today announced the signing of two separate but interrelated contracts with Sikorsky International Operations Inc. for the Maritime Helicopter Project.
The first contract, worth $1.8 billion, covers the acquisition of 28
fully integrated, certified and qualified helicopters with their mission systems installed.
The second contract, valued at $3.2 billion, is for the 20-year in-
service support for the helicopters, and includes the construction of a training facility, as well as a simulation and training suite.
"The CH-148 Cyclone will provide our men and women in uniform with a helicopter that can perform the diverse and difficult roles required in today's global security environment," said Defence Minister Bill Graham. "This acquisition is one that will provide significant economic benefits to Canadian companies from coast to coast for decades to come."
"The awarding of these contracts marks the end of an extremely rigorous procurement process, through which Canada has purchased the right helicopter for the Canadian Forces at the best price for Canadians," said the Honourable Scott Brison, Minister of Public Works and Government Services.
"The Canadian Forces are increasingly called upon to respond to challenging and complex operations throughout the world," said General Ray Henault, Chief of the Defence Staff. "The CH-148 Cyclone provides us with a robust, multi-role helicopter that will support our maritime operations well into the future."
Delivery of the first helicopter, to be called the CH-148 Cyclone, is required to be no later than November 2008, with the remaining helicopters to be delivered at a rate of one per month thereafter. The contract has a series of bonuses for early delivery but also imposes penalties for late delivery, making it very much in the company's interest to deliver the helicopters as
soon as possible.
OTTAWA, Nov. 23 /CNW Telbec/ - The Government of Canada today announced the signing of two separate but interrelated contracts with Sikorsky International Operations Inc. for the Maritime Helicopter Project.
The first contract, worth $1.8 billion, covers the acquisition of 28
fully integrated, certified and qualified helicopters with their mission systems installed.
The second contract, valued at $3.2 billion, is for the 20-year in-
service support for the helicopters, and includes the construction of a training facility, as well as a simulation and training suite.
"The CH-148 Cyclone will provide our men and women in uniform with a helicopter that can perform the diverse and difficult roles required in today's global security environment," said Defence Minister Bill Graham. "This acquisition is one that will provide significant economic benefits to Canadian companies from coast to coast for decades to come."
"The awarding of these contracts marks the end of an extremely rigorous procurement process, through which Canada has purchased the right helicopter for the Canadian Forces at the best price for Canadians," said the Honourable Scott Brison, Minister of Public Works and Government Services.
"The Canadian Forces are increasingly called upon to respond to challenging and complex operations throughout the world," said General Ray Henault, Chief of the Defence Staff. "The CH-148 Cyclone provides us with a robust, multi-role helicopter that will support our maritime operations well into the future."
Delivery of the first helicopter, to be called the CH-148 Cyclone, is required to be no later than November 2008, with the remaining helicopters to be delivered at a rate of one per month thereafter. The contract has a series of bonuses for early delivery but also imposes penalties for late delivery, making it very much in the company's interest to deliver the helicopters as
soon as possible.
Tribunal won't hear complaint over chopper deal
Canadian Press
HALIFAX — A federal tribunal has rejected a company's request to hear a complaint that raises questions about Ottawa's handling of a $5-billion contract to replace the military's fleet of aging Sea King helicopters.
AgustaWestland Inc., the leading company in an Italian-British consortium, originally brought allegations of political interference to the Federal Court on Sept. 1.
However, the court told the company it had to first ask the Canadian International Trade Tribunal if it would hear the case.
On Thursday, the tribunal declined, saying the company took too long to file its arguments.
But a lawyer for AgustaWestland says the battle is far from over.
Gordon Cameron said he'll bring the case back to Federal Court on Dec. 4.
AgustaWestland's bid for its Cormorant helicopters to replace the Sea Kings was originally rejected this summer in favour of a bid by rival Sikorsky Aircraft Corp, based in the United States.
Since then, the company has taken legal action to force Ottawa to hand it the deal or start the decade-long process over again.
In its 19-page Federal Court application, filed Sept. 1, the company charged that the government's bid evaluation was "biased, unfair and contrary to the rules of the procurement.''
It also accused the ruling Liberals of deliberately skewing the selection to avoid the "embarrassment'' of picking its EH-101 helicopter, which the Liberal government had rejected as an unaffordable luxury in 1993.
The documents contend that Sikorsky's helicopter faces a major redesign, and won't be ready in time to meet the government's four-year delivery deadline.
None of these allegations has been proven in court.
Lloyd Noseworthy, a spokesman for Sikorsky (NYSE:UTC), rejected the allegations.
"We know what it takes, and we will deliver the first aircraft in November 2008,'' he said in an interview. "We will be there on time.''
The contract requires Sikorsky to build 28 helicopters and begin delivering one per month starting in November 2008 -- four years after the deal was signed.
Defence Minister Bill Graham and Public Works Minister Scott Brison announced the government's decision to buy the Sikorsky H-92 -- later dubbed the Cyclone -- last July before an audience of Sea King pilots in Nova Scotia.
They said buying the Cyclone was a better bargain than purchasing the larger, three-engine EH-101 Cormorant.
Under the contract, the last of the Cyclones is expected be delivered in 2011 -- almost 50 years after the first Sea King took to the air over Shearwater.
Meanwhile, the existing Sea King fleet -- involved in four fatal crashes that have claimed at least seven lives over 10 years -- will require about 30 hours of maintenance for every hour of flying time.
The contract is the latest step in a saga that began in the 1980s, when the Defence Department set out to replace the CH-124 Sea King -- also a Sikorsky product.
Canadian Press
HALIFAX — A federal tribunal has rejected a company's request to hear a complaint that raises questions about Ottawa's handling of a $5-billion contract to replace the military's fleet of aging Sea King helicopters.
AgustaWestland Inc., the leading company in an Italian-British consortium, originally brought allegations of political interference to the Federal Court on Sept. 1.
However, the court told the company it had to first ask the Canadian International Trade Tribunal if it would hear the case.
On Thursday, the tribunal declined, saying the company took too long to file its arguments.
But a lawyer for AgustaWestland says the battle is far from over.
Gordon Cameron said he'll bring the case back to Federal Court on Dec. 4.
AgustaWestland's bid for its Cormorant helicopters to replace the Sea Kings was originally rejected this summer in favour of a bid by rival Sikorsky Aircraft Corp, based in the United States.
Since then, the company has taken legal action to force Ottawa to hand it the deal or start the decade-long process over again.
In its 19-page Federal Court application, filed Sept. 1, the company charged that the government's bid evaluation was "biased, unfair and contrary to the rules of the procurement.''
It also accused the ruling Liberals of deliberately skewing the selection to avoid the "embarrassment'' of picking its EH-101 helicopter, which the Liberal government had rejected as an unaffordable luxury in 1993.
The documents contend that Sikorsky's helicopter faces a major redesign, and won't be ready in time to meet the government's four-year delivery deadline.
None of these allegations has been proven in court.
Lloyd Noseworthy, a spokesman for Sikorsky (NYSE:UTC), rejected the allegations.
"We know what it takes, and we will deliver the first aircraft in November 2008,'' he said in an interview. "We will be there on time.''
The contract requires Sikorsky to build 28 helicopters and begin delivering one per month starting in November 2008 -- four years after the deal was signed.
Defence Minister Bill Graham and Public Works Minister Scott Brison announced the government's decision to buy the Sikorsky H-92 -- later dubbed the Cyclone -- last July before an audience of Sea King pilots in Nova Scotia.
They said buying the Cyclone was a better bargain than purchasing the larger, three-engine EH-101 Cormorant.
Under the contract, the last of the Cyclones is expected be delivered in 2011 -- almost 50 years after the first Sea King took to the air over Shearwater.
Meanwhile, the existing Sea King fleet -- involved in four fatal crashes that have claimed at least seven lives over 10 years -- will require about 30 hours of maintenance for every hour of flying time.
The contract is the latest step in a saga that began in the 1980s, when the Defence Department set out to replace the CH-124 Sea King -- also a Sikorsky product.
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airline-style seating S92
Hello Ppruners. Help please
In the Technical info. of the S92/General data (Sikorskys own homepage) is mentioned "seating capacity airline-style seating 19-24 seats".
Whats the seating configuration look like when 24 seats are used?
OMP
In the Technical info. of the S92/General data (Sikorskys own homepage) is mentioned "seating capacity airline-style seating 19-24 seats".
Whats the seating configuration look like when 24 seats are used?
OMP
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OMP, I realise you are looking for a photo of the interior of a full-offshore config aircraft, but (out of interest) here's a page with photos of a corporate S92 with just 10 seats visible.....
http://helimat.free.fr/4_S92Int.htm
http://helimat.free.fr/4_S92Int.htm
Looks quite utilitarian for a corporate machine; obviously being used as a genuine means of transport for executives rather than the boss' toy!
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Aircraft #8 arrived in Lafayette, Louisiana last night and will be in PHI's hangar 10 to 14 days for installation of Gulf coast equipment. Aircraft #6 now has slightly over 100 hours and has been a very reliable aircraft. We have had fewer problems than we expected with a new model, but we at PHI and our customers are still learning how to best utilize the aircraft.
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Tired Old S92 Engine?
Remarks on another thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=156159) prompt me to ask if it is true that Sikorsky is trying to squeeze more power out of the "tired old" engines on the S92.
Nick, is there a performance problem with the engine used on the current aircraft and is this causing the delay on offshore aircraft being delivered in Europe, or is that another problem? Will the rumoured performance increase include blade shedding and dual channel FADEC (with additional back-up), to bring the engine in line with the latest safety standards provided on a competing aircraft?
An update would be most appreciated.
Nick, is there a performance problem with the engine used on the current aircraft and is this causing the delay on offshore aircraft being delivered in Europe, or is that another problem? Will the rumoured performance increase include blade shedding and dual channel FADEC (with additional back-up), to bring the engine in line with the latest safety standards provided on a competing aircraft?
An update would be most appreciated.
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Not even close, Vertalop!
Rumors of performance problems, huh? I hear them too, Super Puma sales performance seems to be "Group B". Here is proof that some people who know how to tell new from old are voting with money and contracts:
EC 225 maybe 3 sales:
http://www.aeroboek.nl/ab-033.htm
S-92 maybe 50 sales:
http://www.aeroboek.nl/ab-079.htm
EC 225 maybe 3 sales:
http://www.aeroboek.nl/ab-033.htm
S-92 maybe 50 sales:
http://www.aeroboek.nl/ab-079.htm
G.E Power!
Having worked on and overhauled CT7/T700 engines fitted to Blackhawk and B214 ST's , and Makilas fitted to Super Pumas ,AS332 L,L1 and L2 and Cougar Helicopters , I know which Helicopter i would prefer my ass in, the one with the CT7's.
The CT 7 is fitted to over a dozen helicopters, has one of the best reliability records world wide and are overhauled on condition! ie; if it's not broke don't fix it. The Makila 1A has a pretty good reliability record and generaly make ohaul at 2500 hrs, the 1A1 is less so and have a faily high turnover in hot climates, the 1A2 gives good power when its new but as far as i know one has not made ohaul yet!! The Dutch have had a high turnover in there Cougars and the french keep extending the limits on Vietnamese L2 's as the keep failing pwr assurance figures in the tropics, I think the Makila 2 will be a nightmare as the engine has been stretched to the limit . The CT7 still has a bit of life left but I think the -8 will be about the limit , the next big twin engine i think will be the RTM 322 as i was designed to fit into existing CT7 fitted Helicopters and will have a development future up near 4000 hp.
The CT 7 is fitted to over a dozen helicopters, has one of the best reliability records world wide and are overhauled on condition! ie; if it's not broke don't fix it. The Makila 1A has a pretty good reliability record and generaly make ohaul at 2500 hrs, the 1A1 is less so and have a faily high turnover in hot climates, the 1A2 gives good power when its new but as far as i know one has not made ohaul yet!! The Dutch have had a high turnover in there Cougars and the french keep extending the limits on Vietnamese L2 's as the keep failing pwr assurance figures in the tropics, I think the Makila 2 will be a nightmare as the engine has been stretched to the limit . The CT7 still has a bit of life left but I think the -8 will be about the limit , the next big twin engine i think will be the RTM 322 as i was designed to fit into existing CT7 fitted Helicopters and will have a development future up near 4000 hp.
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Vertilop's original post is like being asked "When did you stop beating your dog?" in that no answer escapes his underlying snide and incorrect assertion. It needs no reply, it is a troll not a question. There is no engine problem that I am aware of, and I am in the place to know. Vertalop's point is to spin a thread based on a non-event, a nice parlor trick, huh?
Word from PHI pilots is that the S-92 performance is at least as good as promised. It flies faster and burns less gas than the factory info, making it even better relative to the Super Puma, they say.
The CT7 T700 engine family in the US Army has a fleet reliability that is better than that of the airline industry. The demonstrated in flight shutdown rate for engine cause is 1 per 500,000 hours, an amazing rate when helicopter profiles and operating conditions are considered. I do not have data on the RTM, but most modern engines are so reliable, unfortunately it is human error that makes them fail the majority of the time.
Regarding growth, the core engine of the CT7 family has lots of life in it. The -8 at 2500 HP is great, and the -8C with over 3,100 HP has already passed its basic abusive tests with excellent results.
The contest between RTM-322 and T700/CT7 is good for customers, who make the choice, in the end. As RJSquerril's post says (the numbers seem accurate to me) the customers are voting on the helicopters, too. Sorry vertalop, hope this info doesn't dissappoint you too much!
Word from PHI pilots is that the S-92 performance is at least as good as promised. It flies faster and burns less gas than the factory info, making it even better relative to the Super Puma, they say.
The CT7 T700 engine family in the US Army has a fleet reliability that is better than that of the airline industry. The demonstrated in flight shutdown rate for engine cause is 1 per 500,000 hours, an amazing rate when helicopter profiles and operating conditions are considered. I do not have data on the RTM, but most modern engines are so reliable, unfortunately it is human error that makes them fail the majority of the time.
Regarding growth, the core engine of the CT7 family has lots of life in it. The -8 at 2500 HP is great, and the -8C with over 3,100 HP has already passed its basic abusive tests with excellent results.
The contest between RTM-322 and T700/CT7 is good for customers, who make the choice, in the end. As RJSquerril's post says (the numbers seem accurate to me) the customers are voting on the helicopters, too. Sorry vertalop, hope this info doesn't dissappoint you too much!
Last edited by NickLappos; 22nd Dec 2004 at 15:36.