Sikorsky S-92: From Design to Operations
Sikorsky will blame the Parking Warden....I would....that would be my story...and I would stick to it!
"How was I ta know?" "Gee, sorry!"
Heheheheheh.....as I snuck off to the bar!
"How was I ta know?" "Gee, sorry!"
Heheheheheh.....as I snuck off to the bar!
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plt_aeroeng, thanks for the comments.
Actually, there would be nothing wrong with using an AN124. It could be hired privately for the job (going both directions), on a long-range deployment like Indonesia. As you said, a C17 could possibly be arranged through the USAF. The only issue I see with these options is that a long range relief effort (like the recent tsunami) could tie up these assets for a while, and the NGO might have to wait to get transport. I'm sure it would depend on the perceived priority of getting the helos into the area.
The best scenario I could come up with, where the NGO owned all the assets, is civil C130s transporting civil S70s. The problem here is that civil S70s are limited to the "restricted" category (fire fighting, logging, etc), which could create problems with other nation's civil aviation authorities. There can also be training issues (between deployments) with this limited certificate, as well as other unwanted aircraft use restrictions. The S92 is a more capable helo and has a full civil certificate. However the civil S70 is not a bad option, except for the civil certification issues. I like both of these helos for a lot of reasons, including their field serviceability (where the S92 would again be the better choice).
The reason for exploring the option of the NGO owning both assets (helos and transporters) is the ability to use the transporters in the area during the relief effort. The transporters can go where there are runways available, and the helos can go where there aren't. The transporters can also bring in a steady stream of supplies from long distances. Overall, it would just be nice and efficient for the same transporters to be able to also transport the helos.
Actually, there would be nothing wrong with using an AN124. It could be hired privately for the job (going both directions), on a long-range deployment like Indonesia. As you said, a C17 could possibly be arranged through the USAF. The only issue I see with these options is that a long range relief effort (like the recent tsunami) could tie up these assets for a while, and the NGO might have to wait to get transport. I'm sure it would depend on the perceived priority of getting the helos into the area.
The best scenario I could come up with, where the NGO owned all the assets, is civil C130s transporting civil S70s. The problem here is that civil S70s are limited to the "restricted" category (fire fighting, logging, etc), which could create problems with other nation's civil aviation authorities. There can also be training issues (between deployments) with this limited certificate, as well as other unwanted aircraft use restrictions. The S92 is a more capable helo and has a full civil certificate. However the civil S70 is not a bad option, except for the civil certification issues. I like both of these helos for a lot of reasons, including their field serviceability (where the S92 would again be the better choice).
The reason for exploring the option of the NGO owning both assets (helos and transporters) is the ability to use the transporters in the area during the relief effort. The transporters can go where there are runways available, and the helos can go where there aren't. The transporters can also bring in a steady stream of supplies from long distances. Overall, it would just be nice and efficient for the same transporters to be able to also transport the helos.
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Yes indeed brilliant demonstration of how totally unsuitable it would be for a VIP machine. All those High Ranking military who were very nearly hit by flying debris will surely remember the S-92 when purchasing decisions come their way.....
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Sandy
Sorry if I'm being a little slow here - I'm only a PPL - but have I got this right?
One pilot gets something wrong (apparently) on one day so that's a brilliant demonstration of how the helicopter type is "totally unsuitable for a VIP machine"?
Sorry if I'm being a little slow here - I'm only a PPL - but have I got this right?
One pilot gets something wrong (apparently) on one day so that's a brilliant demonstration of how the helicopter type is "totally unsuitable for a VIP machine"?
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Lawyer,
We can recognize a Toad when we see one.....
The way word seems to be floating around, the take off pad the guy used was the regular heliport. The chalets are flimsy affairs, one chalet had blown down the previous day due to a wind gust (with no dreaded monster helicopter even close.) Toads rumors of injuries are off base, I hear. A blown in door makes it to Cyber Headlines!
Toad is right, however, only helos with no rotorwash are suitable. I am sure he has one, somewhere, like that! His patent is pending a repeal of Newton's Second Law.
We can recognize a Toad when we see one.....
The way word seems to be floating around, the take off pad the guy used was the regular heliport. The chalets are flimsy affairs, one chalet had blown down the previous day due to a wind gust (with no dreaded monster helicopter even close.) Toads rumors of injuries are off base, I hear. A blown in door makes it to Cyber Headlines!
Toad is right, however, only helos with no rotorwash are suitable. I am sure he has one, somewhere, like that! His patent is pending a repeal of Newton's Second Law.
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rjsquirrel
Not quite sure how my post saying "Luckily no injuries" turns into my supposed rumours of injuries???
The AgW stand wasn't that flimsy and suffered far more than a blown in window. However if that was the perception seems to me to be even more reason to be cautious.
Flying Lawyer
If a manufacturer goes to the expensive of sending an aircraft to the other side of the world to showcase it to the Middle East military including the Royal Flights, it seems foolish to pull a stunt like that in front of some of the people you've come to win over. Leave it to the flying demos and an area more suited. In this part of the world, and many others, departing VIPs are "seen off" by their hosts, something many who saw the departure will now doubt the feasibility of. It is not always possible to taxi clear before lifting, so downwash is always a consideration in any VIP helicopter analysis. A more normal departure would have shown the S-92 has no more downwash than any other heli its size. Sales in this part of the world aren't always decided on facts, and Majlis gossip has killed plenty of good projects.
This is not part of some EH101/S-92 bash and I have nothing against Sikorsky except for a purple bruise and nearly having to suffer a danger-filled cab drive back to Dubai rather than flying back serenely at 150kts. Having flown a S-76A when they were brand new for ten years I would have had plenty of better reasons to have become anti-Sikorsky than this incident but I'm not!
Not quite sure how my post saying "Luckily no injuries" turns into my supposed rumours of injuries???
The AgW stand wasn't that flimsy and suffered far more than a blown in window. However if that was the perception seems to me to be even more reason to be cautious.
Flying Lawyer
If a manufacturer goes to the expensive of sending an aircraft to the other side of the world to showcase it to the Middle East military including the Royal Flights, it seems foolish to pull a stunt like that in front of some of the people you've come to win over. Leave it to the flying demos and an area more suited. In this part of the world, and many others, departing VIPs are "seen off" by their hosts, something many who saw the departure will now doubt the feasibility of. It is not always possible to taxi clear before lifting, so downwash is always a consideration in any VIP helicopter analysis. A more normal departure would have shown the S-92 has no more downwash than any other heli its size. Sales in this part of the world aren't always decided on facts, and Majlis gossip has killed plenty of good projects.
This is not part of some EH101/S-92 bash and I have nothing against Sikorsky except for a purple bruise and nearly having to suffer a danger-filled cab drive back to Dubai rather than flying back serenely at 150kts. Having flown a S-76A when they were brand new for ten years I would have had plenty of better reasons to have become anti-Sikorsky than this incident but I'm not!
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Lockheed Martin Hiring...
The S-92 looks real nice in the Norsk Livery. How many orders have their been total for the S-92 now? I heard somewhere (unofficial) that there were 90?
S92 transmission chip light.
Found on CAAviation, translation and post thanks to "Winnie"
A S-92A Helicopter from Norsk Helicopter had a Main transmission low oil pressure in norway, and made a precautionary landing at a rig today.
http://web3.aftenbladet.no/innenriks/article188495.ece
For all you who don't read that language, they made a precautionary landing after the light came on, mayday call was made.
19 pax onboard.
tha article also states the machine will be looked at by technichians before it is ferried back to the mainland (go figger!)
A S-92A Helicopter from Norsk Helicopter had a Main transmission low oil pressure in norway, and made a precautionary landing at a rig today.
http://web3.aftenbladet.no/innenriks/article188495.ece
For all you who don't read that language, they made a precautionary landing after the light came on, mayday call was made.
19 pax onboard.
tha article also states the machine will be looked at by technichians before it is ferried back to the mainland (go figger!)
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The english language version can be found on the Norsk site: http://www.norheli.no/
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S92 Trans Oil Pressure
Can anyone provide the follow-up details for the Main Transmission Oil Pressure loss on the Norsk S92 March 30th?
Thanks in advance,
Joe
Thanks in advance,
Joe
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My understanding is that the splines inner shell(plastic) on the oil pumps became worn out. The result then is that nothing drives the oil pumps, hence loss of pressure.
MGB is sertified to run dry for at leat 30 min.
SB is set to check splines every 50 hr`s until Sikorsky comes up with a solution.
MGB is sertified to run dry for at leat 30 min.
SB is set to check splines every 50 hr`s until Sikorsky comes up with a solution.
Is this the end of the 92? Was the decision to make something else the VVIP helicopter in the USA the right decision? Can the 92 program survive this horrible catastrophe?
Lordy folks, there's about a million Black Hawks flying around the place and we don't hear of many problems with it....the 92 will be no exception. I seems to recall other helicopters having similar problems over the years....and they all seem to be flying today.
Granted there's a few systems one wishes to be "unbreakable" and snag-free.
Lordy folks, there's about a million Black Hawks flying around the place and we don't hear of many problems with it....the 92 will be no exception. I seems to recall other helicopters having similar problems over the years....and they all seem to be flying today.
Granted there's a few systems one wishes to be "unbreakable" and snag-free.
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The real scoop is this, I hear from a close source (Lappos, can you verify?):
1) There is no plastic in the oil pump, the problem is that one of the two main transmission pumps had a shaft shear, dropping the oil pressure, but not to zero. No chips, no damage, no big whoop. The aircraft could have operated for many hours on the remaining pump. nd for hours with a massive oil leak, were that the case.
2) the pilots followed procedures to the T making a precautionary as they did. Hats off to Pros.
3) The cause of the pump shaft failure is under investigation.
Sultan, tell me how many pumps the Bell transmissions have, I keep forgetting. Oh now I remember. One, and the Bell transmissions kill you after 5 minutes if that lone pump quits. Yea, I remember, never mind. You started it with that POS slop, buddie.
1) There is no plastic in the oil pump, the problem is that one of the two main transmission pumps had a shaft shear, dropping the oil pressure, but not to zero. No chips, no damage, no big whoop. The aircraft could have operated for many hours on the remaining pump. nd for hours with a massive oil leak, were that the case.
2) the pilots followed procedures to the T making a precautionary as they did. Hats off to Pros.
3) The cause of the pump shaft failure is under investigation.
Sultan, tell me how many pumps the Bell transmissions have, I keep forgetting. Oh now I remember. One, and the Bell transmissions kill you after 5 minutes if that lone pump quits. Yea, I remember, never mind. You started it with that POS slop, buddie.
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- rjsquirrel
- to avoid metal parts in the MGB in case a pump-shaft should fail a spline (made from some kind of hard plastic) will rupture and break apart. This will save the MGB from jamming from a broken pump shaft (hard metal). Without the spline the pumps have no contact with the MGB and looses effect, hence loss of pressure.
According to my sources the splines wore out before their time as an "on condition" item.
Sounds like the pilots did a heck of a job and followed procedures. A good save for crew, pax and "Sikorsky".
- to avoid metal parts in the MGB in case a pump-shaft should fail a spline (made from some kind of hard plastic) will rupture and break apart. This will save the MGB from jamming from a broken pump shaft (hard metal). Without the spline the pumps have no contact with the MGB and looses effect, hence loss of pressure.
According to my sources the splines wore out before their time as an "on condition" item.
Sounds like the pilots did a heck of a job and followed procedures. A good save for crew, pax and "Sikorsky".
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The trans oil pumps and utility hydraulic pump use Vespel spline adapters, which are made of a hard plastic type material, as AirJockey stated. We found wear on one of our aircraft. Sikorsky is working on a fix for the wear now. Sikorsky's support for the S-92 has been outstanding.