Becoming a professional pilot, and finding a job
You have some valid points there - those who have not paid for much or any of their own training sometimes forget the pressures upon those who do have to pay every penny themselves. But knowing a little of Rich Lee's day-job and background, I think you may lose on the last. 
On a more serious note, there clearly are people with the ability to handle certain jobs - and either flying helicopters (or flying them well anyway), or being able to handle the particular form of maths that goes with flight mechanics and control systems, are far from universal attributes however well trained or resourced somebody is.
G
On a more serious note, there clearly are people with the ability to handle certain jobs - and either flying helicopters (or flying them well anyway), or being able to handle the particular form of maths that goes with flight mechanics and control systems, are far from universal attributes however well trained or resourced somebody is.
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 26th Oct 2003 at 21:12.
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Sinsall,
I apologize if my comments have offended you. My point was that if you really want to fly helicopters, or do anything in life for that matter, you must have the desire and focus to, as Nike says, 'just do it'. If you are 'hell-bent' on flying helicopters it matters little what others tell you-or what your research tells you.
The interesting thing about research and data is that there is always the exception to the norm....the outliers. Most data suggests that many fixed wing pilots have greater job security and a higher level of safety then helicopter pilots. All your research will tell you is that you have a greater chance of success as a fixed wing pilot. In general this is true. Yet I know helicopter pilots who are paid as much, if not more than many senior airline captains. I know helicopter pilots who fly well designed, well maintained helicopters that have never had an accident, incident or significant in-flight problem. I know airline pilots who have struggled through lay-offs, strikes, and a series of non-airline jobs who have never made it. I know fixed wing pilots who have died or have been injured in accidents.
There are many different types of helicopter pilot jobs and many different types of fixed wing pilot jobs. It is difficult, if not impossible to compare the two general occupational fields in regard to safety, pay, security, job fullfillment or status.
You have made a choice to attend a fixed wing course of instruction. That choice was based on your personal situation. I wish you the best of luck in your studies. If you possess the helicopter gene at some point in your life, perhaps when you have more time and money, you will come back to helicopters. If not, that is okay too. Stop sweating the choices you have made. Live long and prosper my brother.
I apologize if my comments have offended you. My point was that if you really want to fly helicopters, or do anything in life for that matter, you must have the desire and focus to, as Nike says, 'just do it'. If you are 'hell-bent' on flying helicopters it matters little what others tell you-or what your research tells you.
The interesting thing about research and data is that there is always the exception to the norm....the outliers. Most data suggests that many fixed wing pilots have greater job security and a higher level of safety then helicopter pilots. All your research will tell you is that you have a greater chance of success as a fixed wing pilot. In general this is true. Yet I know helicopter pilots who are paid as much, if not more than many senior airline captains. I know helicopter pilots who fly well designed, well maintained helicopters that have never had an accident, incident or significant in-flight problem. I know airline pilots who have struggled through lay-offs, strikes, and a series of non-airline jobs who have never made it. I know fixed wing pilots who have died or have been injured in accidents.
There are many different types of helicopter pilot jobs and many different types of fixed wing pilot jobs. It is difficult, if not impossible to compare the two general occupational fields in regard to safety, pay, security, job fullfillment or status.
You have made a choice to attend a fixed wing course of instruction. That choice was based on your personal situation. I wish you the best of luck in your studies. If you possess the helicopter gene at some point in your life, perhaps when you have more time and money, you will come back to helicopters. If not, that is okay too. Stop sweating the choices you have made. Live long and prosper my brother.
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Rich Lee,
I wasn't offended just a tad tired first thing
I currently work for Sky (camera's)so looking to carry on part-time whilst flying and hopefully end up flying the heli instead of holding the camera. Sky have just bought there own helicopter (sky news)and have employed a full-time pilot,anyone know who he is?can't see how that would be cost effective???
once again thx for all the advice
I wasn't offended just a tad tired first thing
I currently work for Sky (camera's)so looking to carry on part-time whilst flying and hopefully end up flying the heli instead of holding the camera. Sky have just bought there own helicopter (sky news)and have employed a full-time pilot,anyone know who he is?can't see how that would be cost effective???
once again thx for all the advice
The Original Whirly
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The helicopter gene is frequently linked to a gene for not caring too much about comfort, security, and having lots of money.
Genghis, you are quite right; I definitely have the helicopter gene, in fact the two linked genes mentioned above. Engineering gene? That belongs to another species I think.
Genghis, you are quite right; I definitely have the helicopter gene, in fact the two linked genes mentioned above. Engineering gene? That belongs to another species I think.
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Training!!!
hey everybody,
i'm sure this thread has been done to death before so my apologies in advance. however, there is some important information i'd like to find out.
i have the necessary funds to put myself through a helicopter school and hopefully be well on the way to having a new career. there are certain things confusing me at the moment, mainly license types and where they can be used. i know that training in the uk is extremely expensive so my considered alternatives are australia and canada, however i would like to work in the uk some time in the near future.
is it advisable for me to train in places like oz or canada (mainly considering costs)? are there any recommendations for me from you guys? how long could i expect to work before i get a job back in the uk? do you have any other courses of action that you could suggest?
just to give you a rough idea, i have about 30,000 pounds to use which will need to cover both training costs and living expenses too, for however long it will take ( i'm guessing at about 6 months).
thanks again for your replies in advance, or failing that could you redirect me to a post in the past that is relevant to this.
Dan.
i'm sure this thread has been done to death before so my apologies in advance. however, there is some important information i'd like to find out.
i have the necessary funds to put myself through a helicopter school and hopefully be well on the way to having a new career. there are certain things confusing me at the moment, mainly license types and where they can be used. i know that training in the uk is extremely expensive so my considered alternatives are australia and canada, however i would like to work in the uk some time in the near future.
is it advisable for me to train in places like oz or canada (mainly considering costs)? are there any recommendations for me from you guys? how long could i expect to work before i get a job back in the uk? do you have any other courses of action that you could suggest?
just to give you a rough idea, i have about 30,000 pounds to use which will need to cover both training costs and living expenses too, for however long it will take ( i'm guessing at about 6 months).
thanks again for your replies in advance, or failing that could you redirect me to a post in the past that is relevant to this.
Dan.
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Hi Muse,
You might also consider the USA - Helicopter Adventures (click here) has a full JAA program which will cost much less than doing it in the UK. As a side benefit, you will also end up with the FAA ratings (since the JAA training mostly covers the FAA req's, very little additional training is required).
You might also consider the USA - Helicopter Adventures (click here) has a full JAA program which will cost much less than doing it in the UK. As a side benefit, you will also end up with the FAA ratings (since the JAA training mostly covers the FAA req's, very little additional training is required).
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Hi Muse.
As Flingwing207 said, one of the better options in flight training for us Europians is to go to HAI.
Don't forget that flight training is also supposed to include some fun.
Heli-Ice
As Flingwing207 said, one of the better options in flight training for us Europians is to go to HAI.
Don't forget that flight training is also supposed to include some fun.
Heli-Ice
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Flying Career Advice
Hi, I have been reading PPRUNE for a while now and thought I would take the plunge with my first post on the boards and ask for some advice from some experienced aviators regarding a career in aviation.
I am at the moment in the penultimate year of a degree at University but desperatley would like to pursue a career in aviation flying helicopters.
It seems to me that there are two options available:
1.Attempt to enter the Armed forces and receive training through them. Which would depend on whether I passed the selection process(I've heard it is a pretty tough and strict). I would be able to attemt the selection procedure after I finish my degree.
OR
2. Attempt to get a civilian licence. The main problem I would have with this road would be the financial barrier. Due to the downturn in the North Sea Oil market it seems that sponsorship with civilian compainies are non-existent at the moment. This would mean having to work for a period to gather up some financial resources before I could begin training. I wouldn't mind doing this except it will delay the time by a year or two before I could begin training.
Which way to go?
In a way I would also be interested in hearing how any of you qualified and experienced pilot's would choose your route of training if you were to start your flying career tomorrow?
I realise similar questions have been asked before but when searching throught the boards I couldn't find one that answered my particular questions.
I look forward to hearing your replies.
Thanks,
Quarto
I am at the moment in the penultimate year of a degree at University but desperatley would like to pursue a career in aviation flying helicopters.
It seems to me that there are two options available:
1.Attempt to enter the Armed forces and receive training through them. Which would depend on whether I passed the selection process(I've heard it is a pretty tough and strict). I would be able to attemt the selection procedure after I finish my degree.
OR
2. Attempt to get a civilian licence. The main problem I would have with this road would be the financial barrier. Due to the downturn in the North Sea Oil market it seems that sponsorship with civilian compainies are non-existent at the moment. This would mean having to work for a period to gather up some financial resources before I could begin training. I wouldn't mind doing this except it will delay the time by a year or two before I could begin training.
Which way to go?
In a way I would also be interested in hearing how any of you qualified and experienced pilot's would choose your route of training if you were to start your flying career tomorrow?
I realise similar questions have been asked before but when searching throught the boards I couldn't find one that answered my particular questions.
I look forward to hearing your replies.
Thanks,
Quarto
Welcome Quarto, here to stay I hope!
Easy question, easy answer:
GO mil!!!!
Apart from getting your hours free of charge, you get the experience that goes with it, taught by some of the best in the world. It's a great life anyway without the flying!!!
Civvy street - hard, expensive, not quality controlled and a lesser guarantee of a job at the end of it.
Do it right the first time - assuming of course you fancy the military life style...and there's the rub!
Good luck
Easy question, easy answer:
GO mil!!!!
Apart from getting your hours free of charge, you get the experience that goes with it, taught by some of the best in the world. It's a great life anyway without the flying!!!
Civvy street - hard, expensive, not quality controlled and a lesser guarantee of a job at the end of it.
Do it right the first time - assuming of course you fancy the military life style...and there's the rub!
Good luck
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I agree with T.C
After taking Civy route and spending the GNP of a few small African nations on my training I find that most operaters won't give you the time of day unless you got thousands of hours and an instrument rating under your belt or have a lot of experience on twin turbines.
Seems in this day and age if you want to get into Commercial Heli flying in Europe and have a realistic chance of having a halfway decent career you would want to have somebody else paying for training through sponsership (Which has pretty much vanished) or through the military.
Despite what Flying schools will promise its not all Rosie out there.
So my advice go Mil or don't go at all.
After taking Civy route and spending the GNP of a few small African nations on my training I find that most operaters won't give you the time of day unless you got thousands of hours and an instrument rating under your belt or have a lot of experience on twin turbines.
Seems in this day and age if you want to get into Commercial Heli flying in Europe and have a realistic chance of having a halfway decent career you would want to have somebody else paying for training through sponsership (Which has pretty much vanished) or through the military.
Despite what Flying schools will promise its not all Rosie out there.
So my advice go Mil or don't go at all.
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IMHO,
the previous posts are right - If you can get Aunty Betty to pay for your flying training, do so.
You will have to make your own personal judgment about whether you would be happy with the "military life".
The flying will be likely to be interesting too.
I too have gone down the civy route - I started flying far too late to join the mil as a pilot. I love the flying but it does not make any financial sense to pay your own way. Civilian helicopter flying is so marginally viable; there is no real money in it for anyone.
the previous posts are right - If you can get Aunty Betty to pay for your flying training, do so.
You will have to make your own personal judgment about whether you would be happy with the "military life".
The flying will be likely to be interesting too.
I too have gone down the civy route - I started flying far too late to join the mil as a pilot. I love the flying but it does not make any financial sense to pay your own way. Civilian helicopter flying is so marginally viable; there is no real money in it for anyone.
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Can a Yank throw in 2 cents?...
I spent 13 years in the military, and I truly loved it! I wasn't an aviator in the Army, and I think that is one of your concerns. Even if you don't get the position you want initially, you will gain valuable working experience, build a solid record, and will have many benefits as a veteran... not to mention the opportunity to see and do some very cool things!
I didn't start flying until I became a civilian. I would have stayed in the military for 20 years, but I had a few financial opportunities that I couldn't pass on from the outside (became a computer geek and couldn't afford to stay in the Army).
If you decide to join the military, sign up for the minimum specified time allowed for the position sought. Military life isn't for everyone, so if you decide it isn't for you - at least you won't have a L - O - N - G committment ahead of you. I don't know how the U.K. military is structured very well, but in the U.S. you can still apply for WOFT (Warrent Officer Flight Training) slots from any job field.
BEFORE YOU JOIN - Make sure that you can pass the required medical (if flying is the only thing you want to do). Eyesite is a big one. Although "waivers" may be available, don't count on one (they are usually hard to get). Good luck!
I didn't start flying until I became a civilian. I would have stayed in the military for 20 years, but I had a few financial opportunities that I couldn't pass on from the outside (became a computer geek and couldn't afford to stay in the Army).
If you decide to join the military, sign up for the minimum specified time allowed for the position sought. Military life isn't for everyone, so if you decide it isn't for you - at least you won't have a L - O - N - G committment ahead of you. I don't know how the U.K. military is structured very well, but in the U.S. you can still apply for WOFT (Warrent Officer Flight Training) slots from any job field.
BEFORE YOU JOIN - Make sure that you can pass the required medical (if flying is the only thing you want to do). Eyesite is a big one. Although "waivers" may be available, don't count on one (they are usually hard to get). Good luck!
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All of what has been posted above is good advise.
I am a civvy through and through and much like you, wasnt sure about military life suiting me. I chose to start flying after establishing a career in a proper job. I have been lucky and got a brilliant flying job, but there have been many people I have met along the way that ran out of money or simply couldnt get that first job.
So if I was you, get down to the University Air Squadron NOW and start flying with them - shows you are keen - brownie points at selection.
If you decided to go civvy, use your degree and get a proper job and earn decent money. Forget the flying for a while until you have saved enough to do at least your PPL.
Always make sure that you have a plan b - ie could go back to a proper job in case the aviation bit didnt work out. The way the North Sea is at the moment, job security is not good (in fact that goes for just about any part of the helicopter industry), having something to fall back on is no bad thing.
But dont let that put you off - go for it, but carefull planning is of utmost importance.
I am a civvy through and through and much like you, wasnt sure about military life suiting me. I chose to start flying after establishing a career in a proper job. I have been lucky and got a brilliant flying job, but there have been many people I have met along the way that ran out of money or simply couldnt get that first job.
So if I was you, get down to the University Air Squadron NOW and start flying with them - shows you are keen - brownie points at selection.
If you decided to go civvy, use your degree and get a proper job and earn decent money. Forget the flying for a while until you have saved enough to do at least your PPL.
Always make sure that you have a plan b - ie could go back to a proper job in case the aviation bit didnt work out. The way the North Sea is at the moment, job security is not good (in fact that goes for just about any part of the helicopter industry), having something to fall back on is no bad thing.
But dont let that put you off - go for it, but carefull planning is of utmost importance.
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Crashondeck's advice is right on the button for those who are able to keep another line of work going. Even though I now have a relatively well-paid and relatively secure flying job, I have just re-established contacts and do some work in a former career - the added security blanket is a considerable comfort when virtuallu no helicopter pilot's job seems to be secure.........
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All my training has been civilian, I paid for my plank-wing licenses and then went to college (Government funded) for rotary.
It has worked out ok for me, but to do it over I think I would try the military cause you get on complex / high performance aircraft alot sooner.
It has worked out ok for me, but to do it over I think I would try the military cause you get on complex / high performance aircraft alot sooner.
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the replies. I found them very useful!!
The military does seem the best option. It seems like a brilliant way to learn to fly helicopters with some very interesting flying.
Unfortunately the UAS don't recruit people in the penultimate year of their degree. I have been 'on the books', so to speak of an armed force since sixth form at school and have had a few informal interviews with them. Perhaps it is time to take it to the next stage.
Any advice from mil/ex-mil rotorheads on how to boost my chances in the selection procedure would be very warmly received.
Thanks again guys,
Quarto
Thanks for all the replies. I found them very useful!!
The military does seem the best option. It seems like a brilliant way to learn to fly helicopters with some very interesting flying.
Unfortunately the UAS don't recruit people in the penultimate year of their degree. I have been 'on the books', so to speak of an armed force since sixth form at school and have had a few informal interviews with them. Perhaps it is time to take it to the next stage.
Any advice from mil/ex-mil rotorheads on how to boost my chances in the selection procedure would be very warmly received.
Thanks again guys,
Quarto
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Cpl (h)
Hi,
I am currently working towards a PPL (H) and have always wanted to progress and achieve my CPL (H).
I am now concerned that I would not be able to find a job (inland) when I have recieved my licence.
Does anyone have any comments on CPL(H) jobs or even better ways to achieve my CPL(H) eg Bristows sponsorship scheme.
Thanks
Richard
I am currently working towards a PPL (H) and have always wanted to progress and achieve my CPL (H).
I am now concerned that I would not be able to find a job (inland) when I have recieved my licence.
Does anyone have any comments on CPL(H) jobs or even better ways to achieve my CPL(H) eg Bristows sponsorship scheme.
Thanks
Richard
rhmaddever wrote:
Richard, how on earth did you ever get the idea that you even could get a job after you receive your CPL(H)? Because whoever put that bit of misinformation in your head should be severely chastised.
Sorry to report, it is not possible to get your CPL and then go to work as one.
That is the short answer. For the expanded version, look up the various FAQ's and other recent threads on this very subject.
I am currently working towards a PPL (H) and have always wanted to progress and achieve my CPL (H).
I am now concerned that I would not be able to find a job (inland) when I have recieved my licence.
Does anyone have any comments on CPL(H) jobs or even better ways to achieve my CPL(H) eg Bristows sponsorship scheme.
I am now concerned that I would not be able to find a job (inland) when I have recieved my licence.
Does anyone have any comments on CPL(H) jobs or even better ways to achieve my CPL(H) eg Bristows sponsorship scheme.
Sorry to report, it is not possible to get your CPL and then go to work as one.
That is the short answer. For the expanded version, look up the various FAQ's and other recent threads on this very subject.
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When it comes to the first job, you just cant be fussy,
If you get offered gun running in Iraq for the fedayeen, take it!!
Work does not land itself on a plate for you. Ya got to except the cards your dealt in the early satges, all the way up to 3000 hours, then you can stop and think.
If you get offered gun running in Iraq for the fedayeen, take it!!
Work does not land itself on a plate for you. Ya got to except the cards your dealt in the early satges, all the way up to 3000 hours, then you can stop and think.