Think carefully before embarking on this.

I always encourage people to look at OAA employment statistics.

2012 : 202 people got got but 159 had to pay for TR.

Only 43!! got jobs without having to pay for it. Some of those are not UK carriers and doubt that a UK resident would be considered for a vacancy.

8 went to flybe and in all probability will be facing redundancy.

I have been told on good authority OAA throw in the stats people who trained from previous years and modular.

I joined a UK regional airline 6 years ago thinking 'couple of years then something better'. Hasn't happened for nearly all of us. Very few went on to Jet2 and a few to vistajet.

I don't want to p*ss on anyone BBQ but getting a job can be the hardest part of the course, if you know what i mean

Hello all,

I appreciate this is probably post #4723462374 on this topic but nonetheless I am in need of some serious answers. Please bare with me.

I am a UK student in my final year of A-Level exams looking for a career as a Pilot. I am taking Physics, Maths and Chemistry and am looking to get A*, A, A respectively.

However, I also hold a PPL and have almost achieved my IMC rating.

As far as I am aware, this rules me out of most airline integrated "sponsorship" schemes since I have more than 85 hours of flying experience.

However, I am also aware that the most favoured route for employment is the integrated route. As a result, I'd like to do the self-funded Integrated course at OAA to maximize my chance.

Again however, I may consider going to University to do an undergraduate Physics degree. By the point of completing this degree I would have probably amassed 200+ flight hours just from leisure flying in my spare time, which would make doing a "from scratch" integrated course quite silly.

As a result, I have considered the modular route. However, I keep hearing repeated stories over and over again that fresh modular pilots are unemployable. Indeed, apparently BA do not accept modular pilots.

So this is my dilemma. I want to do the APPFO course at OAA but am not sure it's best for me. Modular would be good but I am worried about the lack of employability.

I have attended many different airline career days, including several at OAA, and I keep coming away asking the same questions to myself in my head.

Any advice at all will be appreciated.

I would not embark on flight training if I was a doctor, probably full stop. The only possible caveat I would add to this was unless I had a large pot of cash that could fund being out of work and to subsidise a poor first wage. And then, if I had a large pot of cash on top of that needed for flight training, I would probably use it for something else!

So you get lucky and bag a job with a TP operator 1 to 2 years post training and the starting salary is circa £20k to £25k PAYE, based god knows where. That's a long time earning stuff all!! Can you survive on that, let alone live!?

And you really have to get lucky to land that gig. Draw up a list of operators who employ low hour modular graduates, it won't be a very long one. Add to that Easy and Ryan expansion coming to an end soon and you'll have a large number of integrated students going for those jobs too. Going integrated isn't paved with gold either, there is quite a significant amount chasing jobs on scabby TP the other side of the globe now!

It's bleak out there and I can't see it getting any better anytime soon unfortunately. I think I've just talked myself out of the caveat!!

I suspect the airlines who take low houred modular pilots will continue to do so and the intergrated will continue not to get a look in.

Currently there are sales reps travellng around europe visiting anyone from the operators flying the biggest heaps of poo upwards if there is a sniff they are taking on low houred FO's.

The operators who currently take modular will have been visited already and will have declinded the offer from the schools because they prefer modular trained pilots. More intergrated trained pilots applying for the jobs will just mean more cv's in the bucket.

Sorry I just need to correct a point which appears to be a recurring theme on the previous page and that is that BA apparently don't take on modulars. Whilst at CTC ground school, I had the fortunate luck of encountering a BA captain who assists in interviewing applicants and I posed the question to him "Do BA take on Modular applicants" and his response was that they do as long as they had 1500 hours, then it makes no difference. So all this "BA don't take on modulars", that is untrue. That is all :)

Agree with the above post.

Think about it; if BA only took pilots who came from an integrated school, don't you think the likes of Oxford and CTC would be making a MASSIVE noise about it in their marketing?!

"Go integrated or NEVER get into BA...fact!" (or something similar!)

They will only take low hours guys direct from an integrated school (specifically from Oxford/CTC/FTE via the Future Pilot Programme) but for direct entry all they care about is how you perform in the sim and at assessment, that is how they will judge you, not based on whic school you came from.

Macs86

Modular vs integrated is too emotive a subject to get an objective reply. You will see very partial views one way or the other, largely backed by a person who trained that particular way.

Modular or integrated, either way, I don't see a whole lot out there for either at the moment. There have been a lucky few outside the tagged schemes on the integrated side who have made it into Monarch, easy and Thomson recently. A similar handful have gone into regional turboprops recently via the modular route. Either way, Ryanair aside, its slim pickings.

The way I have seen some not insignificant success recently is the canny cadet (either mod or int) obtaining a job as cabin crew / flight planner / ops / dispatcher at a target airline and getting into the flight deck through the back door. It is a very quiet side of recruitment, but it happens quite a lot at the right airline. Read the article on the last page of Flight this week as an example.

It is impossible to plan which route is best, because by the time you have trained, the situation will most likely have changed. The old adage "You pay your money and take your chances" remains regrettably true.

Indeed,
easyJet recently run some internal recruitment for those who already hold a fATPL and working within the company.
They are now doing their type ratings with CTC and will be joining us on the line soon.

Hi all,

Thought I would ask here for advice. I have PPL, night rating and am finished ATPLs.

Options for me are:

1. Hour build, CPL and ME/IR this side of pond
2. Hour build, CPL in States and return for ME/IR (quicker option)

I'm leaning towards hour build and CPL in States and return to get ME/IR. This would get me finished quicker. Just wondering is there much movement out there at the moment? I've heard of couple guys having followed similar route getting into Jet2.com. I wouldn't mind instructing for a while when finished or flying the TPs.



Given it'll take me probably another year to get done, do the pros (WWW for instance) see a pick up? What would be my main options once done? Ryan, Jet2.com I know would consider me. What about others?



Would love ideas from others out there! Thanks.

What about when you can do the 0 to hero traject by the integrated way, but for the same costs as modular?

Like Egnatia and Baltic Aviation Academy.. you can get your licences for approx. €60k..

Captain.weird, there are other places where you can lower the cost: it's Poland! And the licence would still be issued by the UK CAA.

That's why I came here reading this thread, because I have to ask the question that Private_flyer asked. I have always been leaned towards modular route.
I have no flight experience so my options are:

1. PPL in Europe and ATPL theory, CPL and ME/IR somewhere in Europe, preferably in the UK;
2. From 0 to ATPL Frozen in the States with ME/IR conversion in Europe

Any suggestion?

redbull
 

first one..
JAA european course no conversions.
without any doubt.:ok:

Guys the modular route is not always the cheapest, sometimes it is more expensive and in the end most of the guys doing the modular, do their training in several schools do save money, which is a big mistake and airlines an not so keen with that. As I said in my thread, the golden rule is to do all your training at the same place, the same school. It doesn't matter if it is integarted or modular, what matters is the training to be done in one place.
Another thing, now there is a new course, known as structured modular, which basically is a full time course, you begin flying early in your training, and you get your licenses as soon as you finnish each module. By far the best choice in the days we live in, and the cheapest. A friend of mine completed his trainig after two years, chose the modular route to save money, cost him 90k euros. Training at one place is the way to go!

G-FATTY

Which FTO did you do your training, and also which FTO in Bournemouth do you recommend because as far as I know there are 3 schools there.

With the modular training do you get flight training included with the programme? And also do you have to get hour building separately?

lukemitchell95
 

All the modules which require flying should include flight training - Private Pilots Licence (PPL), Hour Building, Night Rating, Multi Engine Class Rating, Commercial Pilots Licence(CPL) and Multi Engine Instrument Rating - except the ATPL which is ground class and Multi-Crew Cooperation (MCC) course which is in a simulator only. However, ensure that the price quoted includes or excludes any landing/approach fees, flight test aircraft rental and examination fees (where exams are required).

As listed above, hour building is considered a separate module.

if you do modular training you will very unlikely be offered a job straight into an airline. you would have to do a year or so as a flight instructor then apply for the airlines after clocking around 1500 hours. that's why I personally think integrated is a better option if you want to get into the airlines quickly and easily

so after the ground school part, you get a fATPL then do you have to get a PPL in order to build up your hours and turn it into a full ATPL?

As modular you must have a PPL before commencing an ATPL ground school theory class. You do not have a Frozen ATPL when you complete the ground school, to have a frozen ATPL, you must have a CPL/IR with the ATPL theory completed, this will then become an ATPL once you have completed 1500 hours of flying whilst ticking other boxes also.
There is also no such license as a Frozen ATPL, it is just a nickname for having a CPL/IR and ATPL Theory under your belt, but not having completed the 1500 hours and other requirements.

the thing which is attracting me to the integrated courses is that you can take out a full dedicated loan for the training which can be paid back within 10 years. However, if I were to go modular I would have to find 40000 out of my own pocket, so I'm coming to the unbelievable conclusion that integrated would suit me more financially. Are there any loans available for modular training?

Ok so candidate A has an average application with 1500 TT and candidate B has an average application with 250 TT, who will the airline employ? candidate A.

I'm not being naive, I know it's going to be difficult to get into this industry however I believe that putting all this money towards pilot training is worth it as it is an investment for the future, your career. And I know that if I spend the rest of my days in an office I will regret it massively if I didn't try to become a pilot.

so to do a PPL what is the best aircraft to do the training in single, multi engine etc?

If your doing ppl stick to a single engine aircraft as it is easier and cheaper. I'm doing mine in a robin hr200.

Im looking at a flight school now see how much it costs etc. It says a PPL course and also theres night ratings, IMC and all that stuff do you do that when you do the modualr ATPL course?

Cheers

Yes, you would do a ppl, night rating and a IMC in a modular course.

You don't do an IMC. You do an IR.

What's really so bad about integrated?!
 

Sorry but if I were to take money out of the equation I can't see what's so bad about an integrated course! I have seen many posts saying "be prepared to be in a holding pool for 6-12 months". If you do a modular course you will have to wait A LOT longer than 6-12 months!!! To me, if I can train for a shorter period of time and boost my employment chances I don't see why I shouldn't pay the extra money because in the long run it will pay of. There have been a lot of negative comments about integrated courses on this forum and I can only presume that all the integrated students are now flying for the airlines and therefore have no time to post on this forum and talk about their experiences with integrated courses. I know a lot of you are going to say that the integrated schools give you bull**** sales tactics but at the end of the day they will give you a much better chance of a job. In ten years time when you want to apply for big airlines like BA, what will it look like when you have some crappy, cheap modular school on your CV? when your looking for flights school sometimes cheapest isn't always the best! For example, a state school will give you the same qualifications as a private school but a private school will most likely give you better career opportunities.

Some people just don't agree with the way integrated courses are structured.

I personally think that aside from a couple of cases, MOST integrated courses are going to leave you in the same position job-wise as modular, with the same licence but maybe 2-3x more in debt/in expenses and less hours to show for it!

I am far far from the most experienced person on here, and am actually relatively new in the industry, but I spent a lot of time making contacts before/during/after my training, and I haven't spoken to any HR/recruitment in any airline (including legacy, regional jet and tprop stuff) that gives a stuff about where an EXPERIENCED pilot has trained. It can be different for the new guy with no experience and only a flight school record to show for himself but even then, apart from the airlines that have schemes with certain (integrated) FTOs most of them don't seem to differentiate between modular and integrated, at very most they seem to ask for one stop modular.

I don't think it can be compared to public/private schools, because as is often proven by league tables and the like, and also through general rumour and word of mouth, private schools are often deemed to provide a superior education to other schools. this does NOT translate into the modular/integrated debate (were most of the integrated superiority talk comes from the integrated FTOs themselves) because I have not seen much evidence which proves an integrated graduate to have superior training to a modular one, and in fact I have personally heard of some airlines (mostly smaller ones to be fair) preferring modular students due to what the perceive as a more rounded pilot with broader experience and some determination and wit about them.

I just don't think we can argue the fact that integrated will give you better employment chances, for example, will a modular student ever get employed by a big airline straight out of flight school? Never. However an integrated student may have a chance. I really don't fancy being a flight instructor for 3 years before I can get a job in a turboprop plane and work my way up from there which is what a modular student will have to do. And also it's not 2-3x the amount of modular, in fact, if you add it all up modular will probably end up costing 60k which is not a massive difference from integrated

You say that based on what experience? Took me 6 days to hear back from a company after sending a CV earlier this year, now flying modern jets.

Funny how I completed modular in the same time frame as an integrated, give or take a month.

They don't give 2 hoots as long as you have the experience, a good reference and you fly well in the sim.

Define big airline? You do realise that tonnes of Oxford integrated students end up at Ryanair, just like modular students.

Nothing wrong with integrated schools as long as they are part of an airline cadet scheme. Untagged integrated is a silly thing to do if you ask me, now that Ryanair are closing the doors.

The best course of training is a tagged integrated scheme, no doubt about that. But modular is nowhere near as bad as you're making out.

Regarding this:

Apart from quite a few in Ryanair which certainly has its fair share of integrated students too, I know a couple of guys that went straight into Jet2.com after modular training.

why? because your not guaranteed a job at the end? Well if I go modular my chances are smaller so surely it would be sillier to go modular!?

all three of these factors will be massively boosted if you go to a good integrated school will good airline contacts i.e ctc, oaa

Ok so what your basically saying is that only a small percentage of modular student make it into the airlines straight away!? that's a reason not to go modular

You are correct in the statement that only a small percentage go into airlines straight away, but you are missing the point I was trying to make.

I attended a predominately integrated FTO, although I did modular myself. I also know quite a lot of people from other schools doing both modular and integrated.

By far the most common role I see BOTH sets of graduates working in is non industry jobs or unemployment, that is both modular AND integrated students. The next most common would be instruction, again - at my local airfield this is filled probably 60-40 modular-integrated trained instructors (discounting ex airline instructors etc here.). Then we have the Ryanair ones. I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference what way you trained here as long as you have a bit of luck, have a good interview/sim day and can afford it.

Way down the probability scale is the guys that have gone straight into airlines. I know 2 guys that went into jet2 after modular training. I know 1 guy that went into easyjet after CTC integrated. I know 1 guy that went into corporate stuff after untagged integrated.

Apart from the CTC guy (I believe CTC is/was about the best way to go jobs-wise if you can afford it and don't manage to get on a tagged scheme) everyone else had to make their own chances.

The only point I am trying to make here is that, setting aside part-sponsored/tagged schemes with integrated FTOs (which most people will agree give you the best prospects) - there is little to no evidence that in recent years you are at any advantage coming out of an integrated school with a "fATPL" than a modular school with the same thing.

I think that there is a bit more than a 'slight' advantage, if you employing pilots and you have hundreds of CV's in front of you, the employer will narrow them down to mostly integrated pilot and a small number of modular pilots. This is because most airlines like integrated pilot as they have been made into more of an airline package, call it a factory if you must but its a factory that works.

As for the airline tagged schemes, they only come once a year and only take a small number of cadets :20-30, so they are still going to want to employ pilots from intergrated schemes. and it is proven tht the airlines are still taking from the FTO's other wise ctc's 100% placement revord wouldnt stand (even with a bit of a wait). if you say that airline are only taking their own cadets what makes you think there going to take modular students.


There are many positives about integrated training an the only negative is money. However there are many negatives about modular training an the only positive the the cheap money, sometimes cheap money isn't always a good thing.

It would be sillier to pay tens of thousands of pounds/dollars/euros for same licenses.
And I completed modular few months faster than few guys I shared PPL-stage theories with (me being on a modular PPL-IR(A)-ATPL-CPL-ME/IR route and them on an integrated course). It all depends on everything.

Cambridge university will offer you the same law degree as Bolton university but which one do you think is more likely to get you a job. Also these integrated courses will give you more than just the bare licenses, the likes of oaa and ctc give you an extended MCC with a JOC and advanced jet handling and they will send you to either New Zealand or Arizona which is perfect as your paying for a gap year but doing pilot training at the same time!

There is not point in arguing about that, the instructors at the likes of ctc or oaa have many years experience flying as captains for major airlines however, instructors at modular school will be teenagers with less than 500 hours (they are instructing because they went modular and now can't find airline placement)!

They are far more likely to take integrated than modular students because they like the 'airline package' that the FTO can provide. The airlines also like the fact the ctc, oaa... are extremely specialised in what they deliver (training pilots for the airlines!). This specialised airline training does not exist in modular schools and, as I said, most modular instructors don't have airline experience.