Like most people, I can't really afford a huge loan for the integrated course. I'm currently doing my PPL. My aim has always been to go modular. Would anyone be able to put up a full cons/pros list for anyone like myself who are in the process of choosing? Also, realistically, what are the chances of an unsecured loan for integrated versus modular? Are both unlikely?

I've been looking into this in detail over the last year or so, and my take on it is as follows.

The appeal of the modular route (which is what I'm doing) is that you can work full time throughout the course, and pay for your training as you go. Even if you need to borrow money for the expensive CPL/MEIR stage at the end of the course, the cost would be around £25k which you could conceivably borrow on an unsecured basis if (and only if) you're in well paid employment and have a good credit rating.

An integrated course would be worth doing if you can get onto a tagged scheme with an airline. However, with the exception of the BA FPP scheme (currently closed), you would be required to fund the cost of the course up front from your own resources (or borrowings). A loan of this magnitude (£80kish + housing and living costs for 18 months) would be required to be secured on a property with substantial equity in it and - sensibly enough - would certainly not be available on an unsecured basis these days.

Doing an integrated course, even on a tagged scheme, is a bit of a risk in the event that your potential employer folds (or simply decides it doesn't need to take you on) - but would probably be a risk worth taking (or it would be for me). Doing it without any prospect of a job at the end of it seems like madness in the current market.

The other thing to consider, if you're already earning, is the loss of earnings for the duration of the integrated course which might be very substantial - not to mention the lack of a 'back up' plan if you've burned your bridges with your existing career by giving up work to pursue flying training.

Keep in mind as well that, whether modular or integrated, you're highly likely going to have to fund your own type rating at the end of training - which could be £10k to £30k depending on operator/aircraft.

As a result of the above, my conclusion is that a. if you aren't on an airline scheme, and/or b. have a well paid existing job, modular becomes the only sensible option.

Taxistaxing sums up my situation and thoughts exactly. I'd love to have access to upwards of £90k to go integrated, but even if I did I'd only do a tagged scheme simply because it provides as much security as there is out there for employment afterwards.

Going modular enables me to fit flying in around work, keeping any eventual loan to an absolute minimum, though of course it does take longer than integrated. Might mean I end up working for Ryanair and paying for my own rating, but that could just as easily be the case if you go integrated. Horses for courses I suppose, and in an industry as volatile as aviation we could be in a completely different market in 4 years time

Well to be honest I prefer Integrated as I find it more convenient due to the fact majority of the airlines prefer this. However at the moment I am doing my PPL but if I do integrated at CTC wings (which I want to do) as soon as I finish my A Levels I think it may put me in a good position of getting a job as a Airline Pilot preferably for Qatar Airways. I don't see what the fuss is about between modular vs integrated. But I am surprised how much people on pprune underrate integrated route a lot. Couple of weeks back I went to southampton to CTC wings open day, and in their presentation I was surprised at their statistics of how short the hold pool time wait was, average was between 3-4 months with the latest a year. However if you really want the job as airline pilot I'm sure fellow ppruners will choose their suitable option of training and put in the effort of getting a dream job as an Airline Pilot :)

@City Flyer; nail, head, spot on!

Hard decision whether to choose CTC wings or not, however it would be interesting to know weather if they are any CTC wings students (on pprune) who are still unemployed (meaning by that waiting over a year for a job).

Not seen Oxford or FTE yet, as I'm wondering which one of these 2 are better than CTC for their training and employment at the end, any ideas?

Since I started this thread in January 2010 and as its had over 104,300 views until now, I thought I would add where My flight training got me:

Since completing my modular cpl/ir in 2009, I sent out my cv and applications to all the airlines and charter companies I could find across the world. I heard back from 4 in total, had missed a telephone interview with a UK based lo cost airline and was not given another chance to arrange a telephone interview, two others airlines were based in Africa however I did not have the experience on the aircraft type and finally had an interview with a European airline.

I received a job offer and put myself in to greater debt by having to find extra finance for the type rating.

I have been flying for them for almost a year now and have met many guys from both integrated and the modular route along the way.

All I will tell you is that we have the same job and when I tell some of them how much my training cost, you could hear a pin drop in the room. My debts are a lot less and should be paid off within 2.5years.

Guys it's a no brainer, don't fool for the shiny brochures and kind words given to you at the integrated open days. Instead, ask them why it costs so much more than the modular route even when they send you to America to do part of the training (where it is meant to be a lot cheaper than in the UK). Their costs per student are much lower and should actually make the whole course a lot cheaper than modular.

Enjoy the flight training, go for the job but don't just spend your money or anyone else's on expensive training. There are some great modular schools out there offering a professional and personal service.

Excellent - thanks for the inspirational post. Many congratulations :D and all credit to you for the achievement. Great to have an antidote to the doom and gloom - especially in the midst of ATPL exams.

Its nice to hear back and its nice to hear that you've made it to the flightdeck.

Good luck.

Hi everyone, i finally made the decision to quit my current education plan and go modular to hopefully end up as a hired pilot anywhere. Even if i fail Iam sure I would feel better to have tryed my best in terms of aviation, rather then done nothing at all.

Now to my quastion: I have managed to get hold of a job which salary able´s me to save 1000 euros every month. Iam aware of that this might not seem much, and that it will take me several years to complete this little project of mine, but would you guys who went modular, advise me to save up to a respectfully sum of cash (e.g the sum of the whole PPL) before actually beginnning the training?
(or perhaps save up even more?)

In doing this I would gain the advantage of always beeing one step ahead of my education regarding its financing I guess, although I want to start flying as soon as possible.

You guys who went modular, how did you finance the project? and beyond all, any other advises to a beginner?

Yes.

I'd do a PPL reasonably quickly first so that you're not on too flat a learning curve. To do that, you need the funds to startwith. But buy the groundschool books now and whilst you are building up the money to do your PPL flying, learn the material you'll need for the ground exams. Navigation will be a struggle, because it's hard to understand until you've done some actual cross-country flying, but the rest you can certainly do before any flying.

Then, slowly but post PPL, you can build up funds towards the CPL course whilst doing the relatively inexpensive distance learning groundschool (assuming you do it that way) and some steady hourbuilding knowing enough about yourself and flying to know if you really want to carry on that way.

Doing a flying course slowly is the expensive way in the long run. I made that mistake on my CPL and probably added 10 hours doing so, which is a lot of cash!

@FOJohansson

I am in a similar scenario, and have read these boards with interest and taken advice from those with experience.

For what it is worth, the best advice I have received seems to be that the PPL, distance learning for the ATPL, hour building and even the CPL at a push can all be done part time whilst working.

However, the instrument rating is by far the toughest part and should absolutely be done in one hit if possible. This will mean taking 8-12 weeks out of work, but I have been told certainly worth it.

Best of luck, and hopefully in a few years when we have all the licences there will be some jobs around that aren't ring fenced for integrated cadets or those that have gone through p2f!

As others have said many times on other threads, it's probably worth doing a few hours of flying before you make any big decisions re. commercial training. You never know you may find you hate it! I would say do the PPL first and then, if you still want to go for it at that point, start on the ATPL DL and hour building.

I totally agree you should do the PPL in as short a time as possible. I spread mine over several years and it added £000s to the overall cost.

That said, do go for the odd flight while you're studying for the ground exams as it gives you motivation! I'm combining hour building with ATPL theory for this reason.

I would also get a class 1 medical before making any drastic decisions.

Can anyone recommend any good flight schools which provide modular training? And also, would it be better to do modular abroad or in the UK?

Thank you guys, It is very comforting to read about other who find themselves in the same situation, and the information have been very appriciated. I will work to save up money for the PPL, while reading the theory, and then start the whole thing. Iam very excited! The first thing I will do is a medical check :)



Sorry i forgot to ask if you guys think that beeing away from the academic
world for that long, will effect my possibilities to get through the test's that airlines, if i understod it correctly, requires you to pass in order to even think about getting hired? What i mean is that My math skills, not to talk about my physics skills probably is going to be a bit rusty after working day and night in order to finance the modular CPL, or is it mainly flying skills that are tested combined with IQ test?

Best Regards!

my experience
 

I left school in 08 and wanted to go Int however; at the time I was naive and stupid and believed Cabair would get me a job at the end. Lucikly we didnt have 70k to do it so I decided to spend the next 2years working and manged to save best part of 15k alongside getting a PPL and some hours.

During that time my desire to do this all grew and through doing various jobs I realised this is what I really want to do and I would never know where the dream would go unless I gave it a shot. Through looking up at planes on my lunchbreak wishing I was up there is the fuel for the fire to push you through all the turmoil and trouble that you will experience during flight training and that first job.

However last year I finished my job and started the road from PPL to Fatpl Armed with my cash and a loan and family help.

Now about to start my MCC do i regreat going modular? No Would I change it? No, because I have met some fantastic people along the way and only have a 13k loan at the end of all this rather than 80k. So I can continue my life and aspiration to become a pilot in a sustainable manner.

For me 80k and the next ten years of my life paying it off is too much of a risk to take. As there are fine lines between dreams/nightmares.

@ Jugs

Exactly the same conclusions I have come to, though you are further down the line than me!

Now the hard work begins of actually finding that elusive first job...best of luck!

Waypoint programme
 

Im considering taking the modular route; first gain my PPL, onto Oxford's Waypoint programme and worked it out to be around £47k, then there is the hour building which is estimated to be around another £14 - £15k, this course with oxford includes; ATPL (A) theory, MEP, IR , CPL, and JOC if needed.

What do some of you gents think about this option?

just to confirm.. 47k for a ppl ????

I suppose is 47k for complete modular ATPL(A) course.

One question: In a modular way, the path should be PPL + ATPL theory + CPL&MEP + IR + MCC, am I right?

The IR can be SEP based, or must be MEP as well? I am asking this since I could not really find in JAR-FCL-1 a clear requirement on ME-IR.

Please advise.

Thanks in advance.

If you want to fly for an airline you need the MEIR. Just having a CPL and ME and single engine IR would not be sufficient.

I think it is possible to do a single engine IR and then upgrade this to an MEIR, but that would cost more than just getting the MEIR to begin with.

IR/MEP
 

hello,
did you know any cheap flight school for IR/MEP with good background in europe?
i was looking some schools and the cost is approximate 15k euro
i'f got the jaa cpl+atp theory and i need to finish the training but until the time i don't have so many k.
Thank you

Sounds great :ok:

I intend to go that path myself.....Im working a normal job and have 3 kids + the missus and a motorbike :rolleyes: so I will be getting a loan and saving then another loan + the money I have saved etc.

Luckily a family friend has a King Air which I will be Co-Pilot from Ireland to France a few times a year.

Seems to be the best and cheapest route...

Thanks for sharing and best of luck..safe flying :ok:

Tough
 

If you make it through all the training modularly you have the determination to succeed in life as you will find it can get very frustrating at times.

All I can advise is finish training with the least possible debt you can.

Do not believe integrated is the only way to get a job.

Do not start unless you can find a type rating or are prepared to take a longer route perhaps 2-3 years.

Do not leave long gaps in your training. If seen this happen and people run out of money on a few occasions.

Do your CPL IR at one school.

If you can go to America to hour build do it, you will have a great time and be exposed to a lot more than here in the UK.

Make sure you enjoy your training, it's expensive and you won't do it again.

When you get your CPL/IR you hardly know anything in the scheme of things. So no need for the big time attitude.

Still not sure (JAR FCL)
 

Hello everyone,
Tomorrow I need to decide wether I go integrated or modular, this is the situation:
I have done a PPL at the same flight school
I now have 100hrs of which 50+ PIC Xcountry
I am now doing ATPL theory and estimate exams in 6 months
Option 1:
Integrated ATPL
195hrs - 40hrs = 165hrs , of which 46hrs VFR(also instruction :*)
+MCC

Option 2:
Modular IR + Modular ME ( 63 hrs in my FTO)
+ Timebuilding at flying club( enough so I can obtain my CPL)
+Modular CPL (15hrs)
+MCC

What should I choose? help please..

Why start an integrated course if you have 100hrs already?!

if you have a ppl with 100 hours it is ridiculous to start over at an integrated course. Why do you even ask? Did you win the loterry?

hi there after all of that outlay are you currently got a job??

This topic is one of the most argued in this field. " Modular vs Integrated"
Well, what I always ask is: If both routes take you to the same exact license, and can be accomplished in the same exact interval of time ( 12-14 months- full time), why is it that airlines in Europe prefer the cadets that have gone through the integrated route ??
does it really affect your employment?
If one is able to cover the costs of the integrated training at CTC,OAA, AFT, FTE... do you advise them to go through this route? or save money and go through the modular route? what are the real things that differ between the 2?

Hagop,

Since you are from Lebanon, you maybe should look at Middle East Airline's cadet program. As you will see, they are affiliated with FTE Jerez's integrated program.

Yup that's correct, they have just launched a new selection phase 1 month ago, but I am currently studying my last year of school, that means I cannot apply yet... they have a minimum requirement of at least 1 year of university...
I will keep looking forward to apply to their program next year, but will continue on searching for other flight schools as well, no one knows what will happen !
Cheers.

Okay one thing is clear: modular can be done cheaper than integrated. But when I say that there is an integrated flight training school in the Balkans and South-East Europe, where the price is in the near of €60k.. What about that?

With the schools I mentioned:
- Baltic Aviation Academy
- Egnatia Aviation Academy

I've spoken to students from these schools and the students from BAA were more positive than the students from EAA.

What about this idea?

where to take atpl in uk?
 

hello guys, want to take atpl and need your help, dont want to pay £80,000 for ofxord or ctc, cause basically i'm paying for the name and brand, but there's another question if i dont study in oxford or cts, i will never work for BA, jetstar, etc.? cause they only apply people from oxford or cts, what would you recommend? thanks :)

Just to say...
 

Just to say thanks to all who have contributed useful advice to this thread- it's been a journey reading the whole thing but definitely worth it.

I am currently in the saving up/dreaming stage of flight as I realised being a racing motorcycles professionally wasn't going to cut it (yet actually seems a cheaper option than most professional pilot routes!)

One question after looking up (at present) 35 non-uk flight schools for a decent deal (I have a spreadsheet if anyone wants my research), I note some of you recommend only doing your training at one school, or two if you're training overseas (return to the UK for an ME/IR). Would you include the PPL in that as well? Reason being an FAA PPL is fine for me pre-EASA CPL and I will build hours in the US. So it would be cheapest for me to go to an FAA 141 school for PPL and hours, then go to EFT for CPL, then back to the UK for the ME/IR and MCC. Would this preclude me from getting a job?

I've never used so many bloody TLAs in my life! Aviation is a terrifying prospect but I would be happy flying small planes and have at present no desire to step into either seat of a passenger jet.

Thanks in advance and I hope I've done my research ok.

Just to ad to the apeal of going the modular route is the fact that you can do the training in one EASA state, but have the EASA state you hold your medical in issue you the license:E In this way you can shop around for the training and still have your country of recidence issue the papers.

Yet another mod vs int question...
 

OK, here goes a question that I know has been asked in one way or another hundreds of times before! I must have read the answers to every thread out there but things change over time and every situation is different so I will ask it anyway…:

MODULAR or INTEGRATED ???

I am a PPL with a little (‘unstructured’) hour building post-qualification. My ultimate aim is to work for an airline, and although I wouldn’t mind doing a bit of other aerial work in the short term, I would appreciate it if people keep sight of that in their answers.

So the question is that given I’m still at a fairly early stage, would it be worth starting again on an integrated course, or carrying on modular? As with many things in life it’s about weighing the pros against the cons. The way I see it I have 3 options, all with their own plusses and minuses. I’ve listed them here, and I would be really interested hear whether people feel my pros/cons are justified, and how much weight people would put on each…

---option 1---

Modular training at my local FTO (Flying time aviation in Shoreham)
Pros: cheapest option (ME-CPL/IR cost £20,000 with cheapish hour building), local

Cons: Not one of the big training schools, no ‘partnership’ with any airlines.

---option 2---

Modular training at one of the bigger schools (eg CTC Takeoff)
Pros: Eligible to get into their APL pool, school many airlines know well and are used to recruiting from on your training record.

Cons: More expensive (a bit), second class citizen as far as the APL pool is concerned (you give way to their cadets and may never stop getting bumped), extra cost associated with moving/commuting to Bournemouth!

---option 3---

Integrated training (eg CTC wings)
Pros: Enter the APL pool on completion as ‘first class citizen (ie cadet)’. Well known training school on your record.

Cons: Much more expensive. Not possible to build around work so would have to take a lot of time off (adds a LOT more cost again!)
---
The way I see it the modular course is gonna cost me say £50,000 where as the integrated will be more like £70,000+. Obviously I would like to save that 20,000+ but at the end of the day you spending a lot of money either way. Spending 70,000 and maximising ones chances of getting a job is, imho, far preferable to spending 50,000 with very little chance of actually making it to the right hand seat of an airliner. I know of many integrated pilots who have gone on to get airline jobs with fairly low hours (250-300 seems typical), and have still yet to hear of any modular pilot who have got an airline job, especially with sub 1000 hours. For better or for worse it does seem that the integrated method is what the airlines seem to be going for these days. With this in mind, would people bite the bullet if in my shoes and go integrated (I know a job is still not a guarantee!) or take your chances with the modular/ If the latter, anyone got any tips/ideas for how to actually get an (airline) job at the end of it all?!

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Become qualified (modular) debt free; join GAPAN; network.

Or

Join the CTC bandwagon and don't look back.
Can you afford it? If so, can you afford a life without flying if the airline dumps you after your 6 month contract finishes?

I know modular students who have gotten jobs, and have no debts also funnily enough. In fact, a few of those modulars are due to begin their TR with a small UK regional airline.
There are many things to take into consideration when looking to train Mac, the aviation industry likes to fluctuate in it opportunities, so it is quite hard to say what will be the case in 18 months from now. I mean OAA students who are graduating now are beginning to panic as Ryanair are closing recruitment in April and that is essentially Parcs only very strong airline link if you are not on a tagged scheme. In a situation like that you could either sit around and wait for your recruitment agency to find you another opportunity which in Parcs case could be a while or you could go out and look yourself. If your looking yourself for work, then what is the benefit of having gone integrated? So I feel, it is about luck and timing when going integrated.

Hi all.

Thanks very much that is very useful advice. At the end of the day my preferred choice would be modular, not just because its cheaper but also because I could do it closer to home and do a few locum shifts in my current job (im a doctor in the NHS) to make some more cash while undergoing flight training which would further reduce my financial headache.

BUT at the end of the day I am making quite a pretty massive commitment (both career-wise and financially) by doing this and my primary aim is to actually get a job! The fact that the job market is so shaky worries me, a lot, but it’s a risk I have decided to take. What I really want to do is minimise that risk as much as I can. I have read a LOT of views about this on these forums and lots of people (I have to say most of them without a job) seem to support modular. However there are quite a few comments that i have collected from across the pprune forums (many from this thread) that do make me think twice about which is best.....

And

And

And

Now compare this with

and

and

Now, I know that there are some comments the other way round, but less so. Sadly (for me) I am not one of the much disliked rich kids whose parents have paid for them to go integrated. However I am in the fortunate position of having worked hard for many years and have a (relatively) well paid job as a doctor. Having said that I am likely to have to borrow which ever way I do this, but I can go back to working as a doc while im in the ‘holding pool’, pretty much indefinitely. With this in mind I am finding this a very difficult choice to make. I really WANT the answer here to be modular, but it seems like (for better of worse) the bottom here line is that if your looking to work for a big airline with fairly few hours integrated seems to be a safer bet. I really do value the advice of ppruners, and any you have for me would be greatly appreciated. Please tell me i've got this totally wrong!?

Thanks all for the advice.