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Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!
Hi checkxp,
I did my training all modular and came out with the same pieces of paper in the end as any intergrated fATPL holder, for less than 1/2 the price (if it costs £100,000!! above) 2 years! - PPL for £6200, 45hrs 6months - ATPL groundschool fulltime Cabair £2250 + living exp. = £3,200 (good name, would recommend groundschool @ Bournemouth). 5months - Hour building @ £70ph + landing fees etc = £8500 - UK based 3months - Multi CPL/IR at PAT, Bournemouth = £26,000inc exams - (great name, instructors) + living exp.£1,600 1 week - MCC @ European = £1,900 living exp £120 Modular route......priceless! (Total: £48,170) under 15months taken out from completing PPL. 200.1 hours total. I think my training was picking the best of each stage in my view. The level of training was as high as I believe it can get and I feel that each training organisation above was providing a tailor made course to suit my needs. At the end of the day though I am not guaranteed an interview, as I believe some intergrated course offer, but I would prefer to go to an interview saying I managed my training on both cost and a hight level of training, than to turn up to an interview that was included in a package. In answer to your question, I would have £51,830 left for a Type Rating until im evens with a intergrated students price. If only I had that money left over! Thought this may be of some interest. Good luck with the training. |
Modular is much cheaper than Integrated - look
I've created this thread by lifting a post from a thread in the other forum where G-Fatty makes a wonderful contribution.
£48,000 is an achievable budget right here, right now, to get you CPL/IR Multi Frzn ATPL MCC and all from high quality training providers and all in the same time you'd spend on a full time course. I don't think you can 'do' Oxford or CTC for less than £75k. £27,000 buys you an awful lot of time to keep your ratings valid. It would easily cover twice over the cost of getting a type rating on a turboprop having got the nod from a small regional operator. A much much better proposition than being the bitch of a lo-co crewing department on part time wages with zero security and no long term permanent job or benefits. Whilst having to pay back £100k loan for added misery. For two and half years I have been shouting myself horse advising people they'd be mad to sign up to an Integrated course of any description or brand. Clearly many people ignored that advice and the reasons given and still do. Many of them now find themselves wedged between bankruptcy, a debt/interest mountain, pay to fly 'job' offers on part time contractor terms - or let their licenses lapse and walk away a heavily indebted failure. The schools sold them the dream of a smart pilots uniform. Those uniforms though were all crotchless because the airlines were always going to be grabbing their b0llocks - not shaking their hand. Go modular. |
Didn't even pay that much....could buy a 40 grand TR (not that I ever would) and would still be below the OAA integrated price tag.
(oh, I have 250hrs too...bless the US :O ...all I am saying - do your homework, don't fall for the shiny brochures) |
WWW, never has such good advice been so widely ignored.
I would think you could do it cheaper than that, if you went abroad for the hour building. |
I applied to CTC last summer and changed my mind, finally went modular as I already own a PPL (which I paid €4500).
The whole thing, excluding the PPL, comes to a cost of £38,000 including hoursbuilding in the States, flight to the US and back, night rating, ATPL ground school, CPL and IR ME and MCC on a full-motion 737 simulator. I bought a car with 3 other guys for £150 ... It is always possible to go cheaper |
yes you will get a better value for your money
for exampel: PPL(JAA) US = 4500 euro ATP Knowledge(CATS) 1200 euro H Building US = 5000 up to 7000 euro FAA IR/MEP = 8000 euro JAA CPL(USA) = 2500 euro Conversion = 5000 euro Mcc = 2000 euro total amount = 30000 euro plus travell and living and uk exam fees |
Here are my costs including accommodaton, flights etc etc, without an MCC though. During this all this I worked full time, apart from four months unpaid leave during the CPL and MEIR. (another thought to consider if you are going to go full time integrated)
PPL
IMC
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My rough calculations suggest that if you were to go the CTC route into easyJet you would take home on an average month for the whole year about £1,800 but your monthly loan repayment would be around £1,200.
You'd be living on £600 a month. You'd have A320 time in your logbook. But you'd be living on less than a grand a month for the first three years and who knows if you'd get a permanent job or merely be replaced by another person waiting to write a fat cheque for the type rating? Both Ryanair and easyJet stop expanding their fleet by 2013 under current plans made public. No expansion means they only need a trickle of new FO's to replace those promoted to Captain who replaced those who retire or lose their medical each year. The boom years are over. Adjust your expectations, plans and budgets accordingly. ps Feel free to post your training expenditure breakdowns on this thread - it reinforced the point and makes for an interesting and useful sticky. |
Are those calculations based upon taking out a loan for the full amount?
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On being £100k in debt which was achieved by a 10 year loan at 7% being £1,161 per month plus fees.
Total repayment £139.3k in exchange for a licence and type rating you can get elsewhere for £60k cash... |
I won't post a full breakdown because others have done much the same already.
However, three main areas where I saved money but many people fritter it away: Groundschool and Theory Exams: Distance learning. Probably about a quarter the price of the equivalent residential classroom course. Anyone with a bit of self-motivation should be able to get themselves through the groundschool without being spoon fed by an instructor. Hours building: Bought a share in a vintage light aircraft in the UK. £30 per hour to fly (inclusive of fuel and landings), instead of amy £120/hr for a dull C152. I can always sell the share and get my capital back but I'm choosing to keep it because this little aeroplane is good, old-fashioned, cheap fun. Accommodation: Most people seem to pull out their bank loans and pay through the nose for hotels etc then moan about the costs. If you do a bit of homework you can generally find somewhere quite reasonable to stay for £10-15 per night even near big UK airports. Get off your ar$e go for a drive around nearby villages and look in newsagents windows for rooms and flats to let. |
Both Ryanair and easyJet stop expanding their fleet by 2013 under current plans made public. No expansion means they only need a trickle of new FO's to replace those promoted to Captain who replaced those who retire or lose their medical each year. The boom years are over. Great thread, hope it opens the zoombie muppets eyes a bit wider. Go modular!! If I am not mistaken can you not even do all the same modules (CPL, IR etc) modular at OAA and still save a packet off the integrated cost? |
Yes you can. Same school. Same qualification. Less than half price. Tricky decision, eh.
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I hate to say it - but if that is the case it shows just how bright some of these sky gods are..Why on gods earth would someone pay that difference!! idiots!
Half of their spin is because the school is at oxford, without doubts it envokes images of the university and mummy and daddy are so proud little johhny went to oxford, didnt he do well. I bet a school in wolverhampton would not be able to charge those fees!! |
What about Dan-Ger? - When are those prices from? |
A very informative read for one of your beloved "zombie wannabes" to take in. I think ever since I started participating in PPRuNe, I've been modular all the way! To be honest, I struggle to see the pull of integrated when schools like Stapleford and Multiflight are offering zero to fATPL courses in 18 months for £30,000-£50,000. I'm no genius but twenty or thirty grand isn't to be sniffed at for brand name (might just pay the SSTR one seems required to do to get a job now). I don't support SSTR by the way!
Just a quick question from someone with plenty of time to play with (14 now, 4 more school years and possible 3 at Uni). Is it beneficial doing a degree and doing some sort of hour building/CPL training seperate from your University studies (money permitting)? Sorry if I appear naive in what I write. I'm asking all this just as I begin my GCSE Option choices so I'm trying to plan ahead with regard to at what point I intend to do flight training and what qualifications I'm going to try and get. Thanks for posting the figures, they were very interesting, |
hi Everyone,
Just said Id throw this in! First off I agree with going modular as I did so myself. I did my PPL in a flying club very cheaply and it was the best flying I have done. However, talking to a pilot involved in recruitment lately he told me there getting so many applications that they all initially go into a computer. The computers job is to filter them down. So it looks for kep works like maybe first time pass etc and it also goes off a list of flight schools. So if the school you trained at isnt on the list, chances are your application will never be seen by a real person and will be deleted there and then by the computer! As I said Im all for modular I did modular myself but its an interesting point he made. |
A pilot involved in recruitment?
Was he actually on the recruitment team? Because people who claim to be involved with something are often found to be quite a long way away from the action. Who enters this data in these computers? Who monitors the legal requirements regarding discrimination law with its huge penalties? Sounds like bull**** to me. |
I bet it was Flybe.
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Electronic CV's can be searched for keywords much like Google searches the internet. Paper CV's could be scanned in before they're searched, or perhaps just ignored completely. No human bias, so no discrimination.
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The modular figures being quoted are accurate. I went from zero to CPL/IR & MCC in around £45k all in, including accommodation (for the commercial training) and £1,000 or so for a partial retest of the CPL. Finished in late 2007.
I now have the same job as people who spent nearly double. |
WWW, he is on the interview panel and a training captain in this airline. This is what the man told me and I dont think its illegal for an airline to prefer graduates from certain schools. If that schools graduates have met there standards why not want more of the same?
I just thought Id throw this in. I agree completely with going modular I think it makes much better pilots. Maybe just be careful which school you choose to go modular with. Thank you Bhenderson, so looks like my post wasnt “bull****” WWW. |
EIN-Con,
Who monitors the legal requirements regarding discrimination law with its huge penalties? |
I just put this in I dont moniter the computer or work in recruitment but I would imagine its not discrimination ruling someone out because of what school they trained at. There not ruling you out because of your age or anything there ruling you out on the schools reputation just like in any other job where you might not get the job due to where you went to college or trained.
Anyways I dont want to get into the ins and outs of it as I dont work in recruitment. Just said Id put it in to try and aid people in there decision making. Take it or leave it. |
I'll leave it thanks.
Any recruitment process that didn't self monitor itself for discrimination would be gash and opening itself to a massive claim if it were done by any reputable employers in any reputable country. Whatever the employer you refer to choses to do is probably indicative of the regard it is held in by other airline pilots. That's not a compliment BTW. |
And BTW its not Ryanair.
anyways back to the thread. |
I went modular starting in april 2008 groundschool bcft multi cpl/ir at pat and mcc at european all were top notch and I spent all together less than 40 large , adn funnily enough my blue book looks identical to the ones gained at oaa etc ect etc.
Now working as an instructor and we are getting endless cv's from many oaa/fte/cabair and even ctc graduates who arent working . and maybe by just pure coincidence none of them are time served working individuals with life experince behind them , they are all under 22 and sound like prince william , Hewitts lad . Enjoy spending the extra money integrated wombles |
Originally Posted by EI-CON
many applications that they all initially go into a computer. The computers job is to filter them down. So it looks for kep works like maybe first time pass etc and it also goes off a list of flight schools.
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Just to add further weight to this thread, I completed my IR last week at Stapleford. Total cost (including charts, headsets and all the other misc items) was £42K from "zero to hero". Oh, this also includes the MCC course I've prepaid.
ATPL's full time via London met, hour building in the States. When I started looking for training, CTC quoted £67K, so I feel I'm £25K in the black. Please PM if you have any questions. |
v6g maybe worth a try! :)
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Total training cost around £35K, saved a little thanks to solo hours from Air Cadets and University Air Squadron, plus getting a PPL years ago when it was much much cheaper!
All flight training in the UK apart from 40 odd hours of flying around the states, minimal debt, doing CPL and IR on a part time basis at full time speed, thanks to a very decent and understanding employer. Integrated is rubbish and for many people I know it has meant loads of debt, no job and no future. Don't forget you need to add two years loss of income to the cost of an integrated course! I never lost a penny in earnings due to flight training! |
high-higher
well done!! you will look back and realise you have made the correct choice. Remember by remaining debt free it will leave you more choices when you pass, i hope others follow your lead. |
And I know someone who graduated either beginning of last year or before from FTE and hasn't had any flying job whats so ever and he'd be £80-90k in debt/out of pocket, or his parents will I should say.
These large schools do have their airline contacts and can potentially help with getting that foot in the door, but they aren't much use right now, with airlines handing back pilots or going on flexi-contracts so they have the flexibility - but this is something one would expect whilst in a recession/difficult period, just like this Line Training payment issue. Also a debt free pilot here with life experience, sure helps one sleep at night. ;) but taken 10yrs so far. |
Originally Posted by UAV689
(Post 5470855)
I hate to say it - but if that is the case it shows just how bright some of these sky gods are..Why on gods earth would someone pay that difference!! idiots!
Half of their spin is because the school is at oxford, without doubts it envokes images of the university and mummy and daddy are so proud little johhny went to oxford, didnt he do well. I bet a school in wolverhampton would not be able to charge those fees!! |
Paying double - No thanks
Just like High-higher, I have been saved. Guys like WWW get a lot of stick on here but clearly know what they are talking about. I've got a friend who just told me he's going to Oxford. Thats his decision but hey, i doubt hes done any research. A 2 minute flick through these pages and its clear to see what sort of state the industry is in. Does finishing a little quicker justify spending an extra 40 grand? Hell we wouldnt even earn that IF we got a job straight after training. Modular for me please...
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Modular route for me too....
Cost me about 50k all in and I sold my house to pay for it. All training post PPL was with a modular schoolin the UK.
I could have saved so much money through better decisions/better luck, but I'm comfortable with the money I spent and, now employed with a TP operator in the UK, happy I did it.
Would I do it again given the choice? yep, every time. Didn't like the house much anyway:O:O |
I think it should be remembered also that many (but certainly not all) guys&girls embarking upon an integrated course are funding their training thru the Bank of Mum and Dad. And unfortunetly its a lot easier to fritter away money that you have never actually have earned yourself.........
So the question of £££££ probably doesnt figure too high in some peoples priorities. As long as the parents can boast that "little Giles is training to be a pilot at Oxford" the FTOs have completed their part of the deal. By the way,im not having a go at anyone here..im just stating a fact! |
I did modular
Hi,
I'm new to this forum, and i wanted to confirm that also in my country (Romania) modular training is far less that integrated one.For example: Integrated fATPL =62.000 euros Modular training: PPL=9.000euros (45h) Night rating=735 (5h) ExperiencePPL=7.350euros (50h) Theoretical ATPL= 5.000euros (650h) IR flight = 2.200 euros (15h) MEP=5800 (14h) ExperienceCPL=4410 One hour with cessna172 SEP=147euros One hour with piper seneca MEP=421euros If u add this it will be=33.500 but with other small expenses like licensing, R/T licence, travelling, and others it will be around 35.000-36.000 euros So...it is a huge diference beetween the two training possibilities. I hope this helped you, |
Hi Guys,
I read these threads with great intrest. From a young wipper snapper it has always been my dream to fly and up untill recently that dream has seemed a million miles away as i just did not have the financial means to fund the training. HOWEVER, now a certain twist of fate does show me some light at the end of the tunnle. Clearly from reading these forums i would not entertain an intergrated course with Oxford etc. A few questions though that i would love you to pick away at...... 1.These intergrated courses speak of contiunity of training, structured development....will recruiting airlines take this same view or are they just interested in the fact of the qualification u have rather than the way you got there.... 2.I was looking at going to EFT in Florida to do a fast track cpl....$46k for ppl,night,cpl,me,and jaa ir........this also seems very reasonable and after trauling through PPRune found hardly a bad word to say about EFT ?? But could i get better training than this at a similar price if i pick and choose between schools.......this to me just seemed sort of the best of both worlds.....good price, decent structure and time frame and what appears to be a well spoke of establishment. thanks for your time :D |
WWW - you talked about FO's at EZY earning £1800 a month but having to repay loans + interest and so are living off of £600 a month, my question is if someone was lucky enough to get there and be debt free do you think it is a viable and productive route to becoming a good pilot? Would you take this route if you were starting out again now and had the money spare?
I was planning on postponing my training for a while but last month i was lucky enough to win a poker tournament for $138,000 and so now im thinking ill go for it as i can afford to not get employed the month i graduate. Thats not to say im gonna waste money i still will be going modular but i think my situation is a little more fortunate than others |
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