haha brilliant,

............ You got to know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em

Surely if your going to compare prices then its the amount you would pay back on a loan not what you borrow. How much does the integrated course cost then?

If you work whilst doing modular and earn a good enough salary then compared to doing a year full time integrated you may even make a profit!

Depends on loan terms & interest rate but it's around the £140,000 mark. When I looked at it, I also considered the fact that it would be paid back with earnings net of marginal tax - in which case integrated costs around the quarter-million-pound point in future earnings.

Ok, so my calculation didn't allow for inflation - but whichever way you look at it, a quarter of a million pounds for a £40,000 license is dumbfoundingly crazy.

Correct, and I'm not skint either I live a very nice lifestyle:ok:

Even though we have all agreed that modular training is far cheaper than integrated training, everyone makes their own decisions based on what makes them feel safer and more satisfied at the end of the day. However standards differ from country to country. In my country they really couldn't care less where or what training you did. If you meet the requirements they call you in for an interview (if they are hiring) and if you perform to their standards during the assessments you get the job. Speaking with a few captains who are very close to me from a UK airline and from a Greek airline, they all say the same thing: You can never tell a difference between an integrated pilot or modular. Some fo's theyve flown with from the integrated path have had very poor knowledge and flying skills, and others have been top notch. Same goes for modular pilots. And I have a friend who went to one of the big boys for integrated training, and failed an airline assessment 3 times!!! And yes he passed everything first time.

In terms of how good a pilot you become has everything to do with you as a person and the effort and work you put in it. However in some countries, like the UK, if you havent done your training at one of the big boys, you are looked down upon from the airlines or not given an equal shot at a job. This is the airlines decision and nothing anyone can do about it. From the moment that you are not assured a job by giving your loot to an integrated school why do it????

I think too that the modular provides you more experience and more hours of flight, and so I'm going to start with the modular within the next 2 years.
The school is in Australia, it is the MFS, and I'll post the prices in €.

PPL 6800
HB 40 hrs 4720 (PA28 118€ x 40 hrs)
IR 8700
ME 1650
Night Rating 2300
HB 25 hrs 2950 (PA28 118€ x 25 hrs)
CPL 16300
ATPL frozen 1700
theory courses (not ATPL) 3410

TOTAL (housing not included) about €48600

Is this too much?
I'd like to become a Flight Instructor too, and it costs 8200€.
I need some opinions from you expert boys:}

The licences are all CASA, then, in one next time, I'll convert it to JAA, also if I'd like to stay in Australia for ever.

I did :

ppl 55h ( a very long and mass up school in Milan) 10 000 euri

100 h XC ( of course in florida on pa28 ) 15 000 dollars ( with house) school was florida flyers

IR/MEP at topfly accademy in Barcelona 12500 euri 30h plane and 30 h multi simulator

CPL in greece 4000 euri with final check

on top I spent 35000-36000 euri.( i still have to do my mcc, i think to do it at european skybus in UK 2100 euri) anyway all first time pass! I don t understand people spending 80 000 for the same hours thinking they school is the best one becasue it gets so much money from them.

make it smart! all money saved for type rating and these bloody line training program:ugh::ugh:

Hi guys, new to the forum (first post)
I'm in no position of authority from which to comment, but I've been around and doing the research for long enough to agree totally that as far as money goes, theres really no contest. thing is, with the industry as it is, no matter which way you go, is one more likely to lead to a place in the right hand seat of ANY aircraft, be it Jet/TP/(Other?!)
I suspect not but it's a question I couldn't help but raise.

What's more: Modular is simply MUCH more fun! :ok:

At no other time in your life will you be able to assign a massive £5000-10000 to the joys of simply flying around the UK or somewhere interesting abroad of your choice, with your mates, eating bacon butties and gaining untold experience, all in the name of essential 'training'!

I wish I could do it all again! :)

So True mikehotel!

I maybe able to do some of my hours on the fantastic chipmunk, you would get that at the OAA sausage factory! They dont know what they are missing!

Good point indeed that Mike, flying round Florida or wherever for the "$100 burger" (invariably refuelling at Lake Okeechobee and popping in to see mates at the skydiving centre etc etc) just because you can, loved it. The flying that is, the burger wasn't bad either. Yep, agreed, I miss that too. :ok:

I am about to do my A-levels in maths n' physics. During this time i will be saving for my PPL, most palces are asking for £6599 which is not a problem. Getting the CPL is the hardest bit as there are money implications.

Just a quick question, how many sponsored CPL go every year on average? Would it be better to finacially plan how I will get my CPL or shall i do it in chunks saving and spending on courses?

Lastly, what sort of jobs do you do when your earning money, i am looking at unskilled work right now.. Problem is that isnt a big money earner.. what sort of jobs did you do or did you take out loans?..

Ben. Don't do the PPL. To keep it current will cost you thousands. You're way way too young to be thinking about professional pilots training unless your Dad is already and airline Captain with a Porsche in the garage. Aim to start flying training when you're, oooh, 23 and have save some cash. By that time the industry will have improved and you might stand a slim chance of getting a job.

Right now. At 16. With not much money. Forget it.

While I agree this lad will have to spend money keeping current - did you ever consider that he might just enjoy it at the time - or even find out whether flying is for him?? At the very least I'd suggest a trial lesson. There's no need to be so consistently negative, particularly in this annoying style. Of short emphasising sentences. There really isn't.

benPetrarca:

If you want to start flying for the experience and shear fun of it then I suggest you try gliding. The low cost and social/volunteer side of it will really get you meeting the right people and immerse yourself in the world of flying. Many glider pilots are ex-RAF or airline pilots who can offer a wealth of information and tips, both on the industry and flying itself.

I'm 24 years old and spent 5 years flying gliders in the UK before coming out to do my PPL here on South Island in New Zealand. The experience I gained through gliding has been priceless (literally, we charged most of it to our university's union :)), and allowed me to sail through the PPL course with enough time to build up the remaining required hours doing cross-countries around this beautiful country. I'm hoping to take myself all the way to ATPL and the airlines when I return to the UK in summer, but the greatest feeling in the world at the moment is being able to take it one step at a time with enough space to breath and enjoy it too.

Check out the British Gliding Association (BGA) website Welcome to the British Gliding Association, or their junior section Junior Gliding - the most fun you can have in the sky for more information.

Plus i think they do a sponsorship each year for people around your age, so you might be able to do it for free! It really is a beautiful way to fly.

If someone has managed to save either £67000 or £50000 then they are probably earning more in their current job than they would as an FO.

My god this opens up alot doors, not a hope will i go near a school now. i got the break down

ppl - half paid up front and the remainding paid half way through. €10635. half + half

Night Rating - upfront payment required. €1200

ATPL - upfront payment required. theory €3700

Hour Building - Pay as you go or pay for ten hours and get one hour free. 100 x155. €15500

Multi Engine - upfront payment required. €3195

Cpl - Half paid up front and the remaining paid half way through. €9700

ME-IR - Half paid up front and the remaining paid half way through. €15999

total €59925

congratulation, do the bank transfer now!!!

I think anyone with enough cash is "Accepted".

now they accept even airline pilots for the pay to fly scheme(the JAA P2F).

this is pathetic!

Certainly.

I spent around £45k all in (see post 23). Finished the IR in late 2007, aged 36, with a whopping 220hrs under my belt. Q400 job offer early 2008, no charges for the type rating, uniform, crew water etc, just a 3 year bond on the TR.

Today I’m still on the Dash, and average take home is around £2,100 per month. Not a fortune, but I consider myself extremely fortunate to have a job (and if I was obsessed with earnings I'd have stayed in my previous career).

Before we all pull them out and see how high we can pee, the fact that I had trained modular rather than integrated was largely irrelevant to my airline (in fact, on my TR course there was pretty much a 50/50 split between integrated and modular people). Rather more importantly:

(a) Every low-hours candidate had been recommended by his or her school, and therefore had a sound and verifiable training record.
(b) They were then recruiting at least 10 FOs per month, meaning jobs were (relatively) plentiful.

We’re not recruiting at the moment, which means your choice of school and training route is pretty academic. However, if anyone insists on training right now – and God knows how long some of the more experienced people have been saying “Don’t do it” – then by choosing modular, you will:

(a) Save a considerable amount of money compared to integrated.
(b) Have the opportunity to train part time and thus work to finance your training.
(c) Be able to slow down or even accelerate your training to match the job market.
(d) End up with exactly the same licence at the end of it all.

Some time ago, I was a slave of the integrated pr tricks as you may remember. But along the way I thought about it and researched and now I have understod that my future will be so much brighter, if I go modular. I thank you very much for spending the times arguing with me in the long posts hehe.

Anyway I am not an expert on this area. I´ve completed my PPL and as I am 18 years old now, I still have one year left in upper secondary school. If I would be starting training now, I would go for modular instantly, regarding the situation we are in nowdays. But the industry tend to change. I mean, I will most likely start my training some time between September 2011 and January 2012. What if during that time + the time it takes for me to complete my training, everything will change and the big boys will start hiiring again. BA wil open it´s OAA program again etc. And let´s say the industry will start rolling again slowly during my training and I will end up, graduating when it has turned for the worse once again.

What I´m saying is. Modular is the best option now when there is no jobs and you want your training to go slow. But will it be the best later on when maybe, the airlines starts hiiring again?

This is the idea I have gotten now through many people that support integrated. Is there any truth to this or is it just pure ********?

Thanks again and long live modular!!:D

Oxford Vs Jerez
 

Im planning to do my CPL in europe, i am from india,

i am confused over choosing jerez or oxford and the opportunities associated with the school once i finish my course :), i am an indian national so wondering if airlines in europe would consider,

on the other hand should i take up a integrated or modular and skip ATPL THEORY IF I WISH TO RETURN TO INDIA AND CONVERT MY LICENCE !??

DO Oxford or jerez offer integrated courses skipping ATPL ?

DOES OXFORD AND JEREZ COURSES INCLUDE TRAINING RIGHT FROM UR PPL TILL ATPL ? ( AS THEIR INTEGRATED AND MODULAR COURSE DOES NOT MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT PPL ! on the wesite)

easter bunnies...where is my ruddy egg!
 

Didnt read all the pages of this thread however got the gist:


Hope my info helps peeps save money, I found it the best value for money (so far)

Do PPL(A) and PPL (H) £££ depends on you I supose

ATPL Ground school is just 1 more exam now so an extra £66 £3k total

The nice thing is now....get your IR and CPL on the fixed wing then take advantage of the dispensations given by the CAA towards the ATPL H. IR is a 10 hour conversion pluss a type rating (budget £30k depending how good you are) CPL you only need 105 hours.

Not for every one I supose, but not a bad way of grabbing a really usefull ticket to ride, it also gives you great versatility in the market.

Good luck all! and dont forget.....its only money!:{

Boeing/Airbus major airline jobs are ten-a-penny compared to helicopter jobs...

Other than that a fine plan!

No they do not.

The reason for a zero2hero course is to provide a consistent structure of study through which individual performance can be constantly monitored. When the airlines decide to look at hiring ab-initio guys they can see how each has fared and developed in an intensive learning environment. A seemless training program - it is hoped - minimises airline training risk.

The notion of doing an integrated program is, in this current climate, a little optimistic since the airlines are not hiring ab-initio directly at the moment anyway (regardless of what the likes of OAA will tell you)...not unless you've got another £30K odd to spend on a limited PTF program that is.

With regards to Modular students: G SXTY is a good example of success. If I'm right in thinking, the airline he/she works for and at the time of hiring actually rejected a batch of "recommended" integrated students a while back because they were so poor - and yet they originated from a well known FTO. They took modular guys instead. This same airline, at the time of hiring, openly welcomed applications from modular guys who had trained at not more than 2 FTOs.

There are requirements to do modular flight training (none for ATPL theorey) with OAA and Jerez and you may want to check LASORS for them.

LASORS: LASORS 2008 | Publications | CAA

Good luck :ok:

And if I get my PPL in a local flying club, does this count as a 'school'?

take from it what you want.
 

I've just seen my post has been made in to a sticky, which was not intentional!

I completed my MCC at European in Bournemouth in June last year, all the training was done with out any time off inbetween, the hour building was slightly longer than I hoped due to the typical northern weather between September and Feb.

For my training I appreciate it was still not the cheapest way to get the pieces of paper, however I wanted to do all my training within the UK, as it was important for me to train in the UK airspace, with the weather and to get the most out of it.
I had heard of peoples experiences that being shipped off to the States was not as promised in the PPL brochures (the ones with 737s glossy pictures on the front!)
I looked around 3/4 flying schools before selecting the right one, you can't really do that in America..

The costs I initially put up are current to this day, and I think if I were to do it again I could make it cheaper with the PPL on a Cessna 150/152, and make sandwiches rather than have all day breakfasts for lunch!

PPL, go for a simple 2 seater.
Groundschool, checkout groundschools for offers - or possibly distance learn?
Hour building, buy in to a 100hr building package.
CPL/IR - If you are going for a multi-engine rating, I would suggest doing the CPL.IR all in the multi, otherwise you will be learning to fly two aircraft. Keep it simple!
MCC - 737-200 at European in Bournemouth can not be beaten! Top quality course, lower prices than some static King Air sims, Instructors who can not be beaten on knowledge, and lets face it you have a go in a 737 for the first time!

Accommodation whilst doing the full time ATPL groundschool, some guys I knew hired their own house during the time and shared the costs between them, worked out very cheap, and shared lifts to/from the airport.

These are my thoughts, some of you I am sure will have better/different views!

Yes, it does. However, if where you get your PPL from isnt able to accommodate next stages of training i.e. MECPL/ME-IR then no problem. Simply ensure that all the remainder is done in one place.

Employers are not so happy to see PPL done at one school, MECPL done at another, then ME-IR at another school with MCC done at a 4th school!! As said before they want to be able to track your progress from one source with a view to minimising training risk.

If you are going to train commercially attempt to do it all in one place and committ to it full time so you benefit from that continuity of training.

:ok:

hi everyone
New here on this forum, not a professional pilot yet, but looking closely to start training in a month or so.

Sounds a good argument everyone has going on here, been scanning through an i think the modular way will be the route im going to take. been looking at doing from 'zero to hero' at flight academy blackpool, which at the moment have just started a scheduled modular course.

would just like a few pilots opinion on this flight school, are they successful? a recognise school with airlines? and does it seem worth going for, hopefully to complete in 4 years time?

the website is www.fablackpool.com if you have time to have a look.:ok:

So joining a flying club while I'm getting my degree is no problem as long as I stick to one school to get my other licences?
Thnx!

Exactly! :ok:

It certainly helps to have continuity at a formulative stage.

hi
 

Hi to everyone
i'm new in PPPRUNE and i'm from france
so i'd like to know if someone could help me ...

so i'd love to be a pilot its my passion:)
i started my ppl in france and i done about 20 h and i'm doing good they say:ok:

so im in florida right now and i'd like to finish my ppl in the US and do my CPL and IR
i'm lost because there is so many pilot schools :ugh:
i heard about EFT thats all

so if someone can help me !
i dont mind about florida i can move to any states but i need a school with facilities

thanks

FAA training for JAA Licence
 

Hi,

Another newbie here, but im wondering has anyone tried this route, and more importantly gotten a job from it?

JAA Professional Pilot | Angel City Flyers, Inc.

Basically, you do all your training in the states under an FAA PPL, add the ratings on to it as you go and then convert the lot to a JAA licence at the end in stapleford...

Oh, the only thing missing from that is you have to do the JAA ATPL exams seperately before you can convert, but it is possible to do those on the cheap post-ppl on the side...

I know PTC (waterford, ireland) do something similar as an integrated course and it still magically works out at some ridiculous figure too...

So im wondering... has anyone tried a route similar to this and actually gotten a job from it?

By the way, for disparity, im not talking about doing your JAA training course in the states directly like they do at Naples or Ormond Beach. I'm talking about doing your training under an FAA licence and then converting that...

You get what you pay for??
 

I have been researching training options for quite some time and have been told many a time that the Airlines prefer students fresh out of integrated courses. Is this not true? I was told at a recent seminar that BA for example take the top 2-3 students from integrated courses conducted by Oxford, Cabair, CTC and FTE.

I would much rather pay twice the price for an Integrated course if it gave me a better chance of getting a job at the end of it.

What do you boys think :hmm:

Cheers

wake up and smell the marketing staff cheap instant coffee:ugh::ugh::ugh:

No.

Boys indeed.

TL 638 check post #72 on this thread.

Striking as this sort of opinion happens to pop up all the time and much more.
Then some criticise WWW's blunt choice of vocab and calling someone 'zombie army' and headless lemmings. :ugh:

'Boy', did you check current job prospects and for next few years to come, or are you just plain brainwashed by one of the 'pilot seminars'?

Yes, you get what you pay for. Whether it's over the odds, who cares, right?
Someone has to keep all the integrated schools' staff in job, including instructors.

How much of that 'I'd rather spend double' money for 'zero to fATPL' training have you actually earned yourself? Did you read updated information on huge unsecured loans? None now, really. Are your daddies stupid enough to secure their house against secured one??

Not sure I ever coined the phrase 'headless lemmings' but I'm noting it down for future use.. ;)


In the boom times an Integrated course can be a worthwhile spend. We're in a big bad-ass bust right now and for the foreseeable future. Despite this, and proving the total pissing-in-the-wind nature of this forum the Integrated schools are full, are not cutting prices and have a half decent waiting list. All of them.

The swimming pool is full of slurry but still they're eagerly pulling on their trunks and queuing to climb the diving board ladder...

It beats me.:{

Ah, I was once a starry eyed wannabe (still a wannabe, just minus the stars) and was debating the cost/chance of employment between Int and Mod, I chose MOD, earn while you learn being the reason. I was an early supporter of the WWW theory and yet still I thought that I'd beat the slump and come up trumps and be sat in the 75 taking off from LBIA. Then XL went bump and being close friends with many of the unfortunates forced me to have a strong sniff of the morning brew.
I am 32 this year and will more than likely be closer to 35 before things are anywhere near being good for pilot recruitment, I'll never be able to earn as a pilot what I earn as an IT engineer and so I find myself asking wether its worth the leap at all. As of the end of last year I put everything on hold and it remains so.
Anyway, thread creep.

In my oppinion its all about what your after. Right now it makes little difference to your prospects of employment either way so you have to take other factors in to consideration. Money is no object to some, budgets are the defining factor to others, some people lack the motivation to self structure their training or lack the discipline to distance learn, Some may like the idea of hour building while travelling, some may want/need to remain close to home for work/family.

There are many champions of both approaches but the reality is that you have to take a long look at yourself, take all factors in to consideration (discipline, motivation, budget, circumstances) and make the decision as only YOU can. And if your not able to then perhaps it was never meant to be in the first place as even me at lowly PPL can tell you that decision making is perhaps one of the greatest qualities you'll need as a pilot.

Ho Hum.

P.s Cheers WWW and all the others that warned us of the storm on the horizon, shame your not as up on volcanology, could've made a mint at the bookies.

Wen can we expect to see everything turning, anyway? When are the airlines gonna start hiiring again like they did before the downturn? 2 years, 3? 4? Because this is is important to know when you make the Integrated vs Modular decision.