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EasyJet MPL

Old 28th Jan 2023, 08:37
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EasyJet MPL

Itís now 2023, can anyone give me a run down on the EasyJet Generation Programme with CAE. I know MPLís are very 50/50 but is anyone currently doing it or planning on it?

Iíve heard a lot about the 2020 group who were dropped indefinitely. Would quite like to know the situation now that weíre nearing the end of the bad period.

Thank you
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Old 28th Jan 2023, 16:08
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There is a thread I made a little further down that has a little bit of discussion about this on there, as I was looking at the EZY MPL recently.
The general consensus from the people replying to me is steer clear of MPLs; and of present I am inclined to agree.

Call me a cynic, but I don't believe the next 2 years will precipitate healthy balance sheets for a lot of airlines, EZY included - CAE are pushing ca. 200 MPLs per year to EZY. In effect, there are around 300 or so 'ahead' of you if you start training now.
EZY did hire those people they hung out to dry during covid but only if they stayed put and hoped for the best as those individuals I knew at the time received no communication from them.

You mention we're nearing the end of the bad period, but I dare say we have another one coming up as our economic predicament really starts to bite, people cut back on travel, and airlines have to reduce costs. If EZY decide they can't afford/don't need more pilots with reduced travel demand, the MPLs have no protection afforded to them in the contract, and ultimately you need a crystal ball to know if they'd be decent enough to go back to hiring them after the economy picks up again.

Go do an ATPL and in 18 months or so you can apply to whatever airlines are hiring: it might take a little bit longer than an MPL (if it goes perfectly and you don't get dropped) to get to the RHS but it affords the flexibility that you don't get if you drop 100k on the EZY MPL and then have them decide they don't want you at any point before you reach 1500 hours of flight time with them.

I may have completely misinterpreted the purpose or question behind your post in which case apologies, I shall try again later!
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Old 30th Jan 2023, 09:20
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Originally Posted by TayBee View Post
There is a thread I made a little further down that has a little bit of discussion about this on there, as I was looking at the EZY MPL recently.
The general consensus from the people replying to me is steer clear of MPLs; and of present I am inclined to agree.

Call me a cynic, but I don't believe the next 2 years will precipitate healthy balance sheets for a lot of airlines, EZY included - CAE are pushing ca. 200 MPLs per year to EZY. In effect, there are around 300 or so 'ahead' of you if you start training now.
EZY did hire those people they hung out to dry during covid but only if they stayed put and hoped for the best as those individuals I knew at the time received no communication from them.

You mention we're nearing the end of the bad period, but I dare say we have another one coming up as our economic predicament really starts to bite, people cut back on travel, and airlines have to reduce costs. If EZY decide they can't afford/don't need more pilots with reduced travel demand, the MPLs have no protection afforded to them in the contract, and ultimately you need a crystal ball to know if they'd be decent enough to go back to hiring them after the economy picks up again.

Go do an ATPL and in 18 months or so you can apply to whatever airlines are hiring: it might take a little bit longer than an MPL (if it goes perfectly and you don't get dropped) to get to the RHS but it affords the flexibility that you don't get if you drop 100k on the EZY MPL and then have them decide they don't want you at any point before you reach 1500 hours of flight time with them.

I may have completely misinterpreted the purpose or question behind your post in which case apologies, I shall try again later!
Hi,

Thanks so much for your reply, I have checked your tread and i can see the issues behind the MPL. You answered my question perfectly and i cant thank you enough.

Will stick to the conventional route!
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 11:25
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My two cents on the easyJet MPL having been offered a place having started down the modular path.

Cost: was budgeting for 50-60k for modular, then you need to factor in potentially having to pay for a type rating. So for Ryanair, prob the most likely first job for modular students in terms of numbers in the current market (who knows in two years...), that's another £30k. So you're looking at potentially £80-90k for Ryanair after TR. EZY MPL is c.£80k (excl accommodation, but you have to live somewhere during modular training too).

Risk: We've heard about what happened to EZY trainees during covid. But, to my knowledge, all have now been employed by EZY. Yes horrible and uncertain times and some made the (v unlucky as it turns out) decision to switch to ATPL and haven't been taken on, which seems unfair. Speaking to EZY training captains during my application and reading their posts on linkedin, it was acknowledged what happened wasn't nice, but it was an unprecedented situation for every airline with billions in overhead and close to zero revenue, with no idea what was going to happen. They claim to feel very uncomfortable with what happened with lessons learned on all sides, so it shouldn't happen again (fingers crossed). I was more worried about EZY getting bought and the new owner dropping the MPL, but their share price has gone up 60% in last few months so things look stronger on that front.

And on the flip side, MPL/sponsored programs remove the risk and uncertainty of "will I pass airline selection" at the other end of modular.

Recession: Related to the above, my instinct at the moment is that the current/imminent recession won't hamper UK airline recruitment too much. Loco forward bookings look very strong even with cost of living crisis etc. Covid was an unprecedented crisis and the recession will be nothing like as bad as Covid for airlines. As a sponsored MPL student I'd rate chances of employment as much higher than if you're modular if things are bad. Of course the advantage of modular is being able to time your finish and continue working/building a second career as a backup. But if you want to get paid to fly as quickly as possible, I don't think you'd be best placed as a modular student in a recession.

MPL restrictions: seems to be a bit of a myth these days that you'd be tied to a single airline until 1500hours. A few posters on PPRuNe say they moved employers well under 1500 hours. And, for example, the Virgin second officer vacancy suggests they'll accept someone with an MPL and 200 hours in the last 12 months. The latter won't help if you get dropped by EZY before TR but is an example that you're not tied to a single employer for that long.

The Tui MPL looks a much better program with no upfront costs and, it would seem, Tui shouldering the risk as presumably you'd not have to pay them back if they drop you for whatever reason. But it will be much more competitive. Great if you can get a place.

I say all this as originally having completely dismissed MPL/integrated programs but changed my mind when I realised it was not likely to cost me much, if anything, more. I'm a bit older and lucky enough to have the savings to fund either approach but everyone's circumstances are different. Ultimately no one has a crystal ball and there are risks in whatever approach you take, just go in with eyes open and what works best and feels most comfortable for you.
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 11:55
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See to me, if EZY had truly learned lessons from COVID that in any way benefitted their MPL students, then to me that means they would now afford some protection to them such as some guarantee that you would be employed by the airline. As far as I'm aware, the contract still places the entire risk onto the student, so the only lesson I see learned is that their MPL will continue to be saturated regardless of covid.

If they were training, say, 30 cadets like TUI, I'd be very inclined to agree with you - but we are talking 200 per year. When the recession takes hold, whilst I'm sure EZY will weather the storm their expansion plans will probably reduce; and if no airlines are hiring, where is the outflow of pilots beyond FOs getting command upgrades as they retire?

If you are right that the recession won't affect pilot recruitment, then I stand by my initial statement that the flexibility afforded by an fATPL puts one in a much safer position - it is far less risky to have to wait for 6 months or so than to have spent everything on your MPL which lacks flying hours and 'await further instruction' from your provisional employer.

Maybe I'm just too cynical or naive when it comes to what airlines' PnLs will look like over the next couple of years, and how the likes of EZY would react; but I personally can't see the appeal of present knowing if I started my MPL now I'm hoping EZY have the desire to type rate and train >300 pilots and then me. And that is coming from someone who would in an ideal world very much like to work for EZY. If you have some strong evidence it's a secure route to employment over the next 2 years, perhaps I too should re-evaluate!
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 12:53
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MPL just seems too good to be true. 18 months into the right seat?

EZY would make be perfect for me in an ideal world but would they hire straight out of flight school, i dont think so. Iím currently a PPL student and the debate of doing my CPL here is coming around the corner. Iíve got accommodation for modular, Iím local and am lucky enough to fund the MPL with no issue. When you mention 300 or more ahead of me, that does make me wonder how long Iíd be away from a type rating. The holding pool must equal the time of the MPL surely.

If i went modular, got a 320 type rating on my own regard. Would they take Direct Entry SOís with low hours?
Not really interested in building hours through instructing for 3 years or so.
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Old 31st Jan 2023, 20:06
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I believe in today's world it is safe to say that if something is too good to be true, it usually is.

I dare say a TR isn't necessary - don't forget Wizz RYR and Jet2 are all presently hiring; that may change or more may join the fold: I know a number of people who also ended up at Loganair or - if cargo is on the cards - DHL. Most fATPLs whether that is modular or integrated get their first job sans le type rating - perks of not living across the pond where there is a 1500hr requirement.
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Old 1st Feb 2023, 05:44
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Originally Posted by TayBee View Post

If they were training, say, 30 cadets like TUI, I'd be very inclined to agree with you - but we are talking 200 per year. When the recession takes hold, whilst I'm sure EZY will weather the storm their expansion plans will probably reduce; and if no airlines are hiring, where is the outflow of pilots beyond FOs getting command upgrades as they retire?

If you are right that the recession won't affect pilot recruitment, then I stand by my initial statement that the flexibility afforded by an fATPL puts one in a much safer position - it is far less risky to have to wait for 6 months or so than to have spent everything on your MPL which lacks flying hours and 'await further instruction' from your provisional employer.
Don't forget Tui UK are training 30 cadets pa across a fleet of 49 737s. EZY are doing 200 cadets pa across a European fleet of c.320 A320 family. So in terms of scale, the ratio of cadets to aircraft is almost exactly the same. Tui also have a much bigger seasonality issues (too many pilots in the winter). Don't get me wrong, Tui is the better option if you can get it, I just don't see scale being a big differentiator.

Of course there's a risk the recession is bad and EZY drop MPLs but in that scenario I don't think you'll be any more likely to find that first job as a modular with an fATPL.

The big difference between now and Covid, as I understand it, is the MPLs fell through some licencing cracks for trainees who had not completed base training (i.e. previously they could not be issued any licence at all until the base training was complete - hence the decision by some to retrain on the ATPL route). Covid has prompted these issues to be worked through such that the CAA will effectively now issue "frozen" MPLs in the event a base training is not completed with the sponsoring airline. The trainee can then get other endorsements on the MPL licence (eg PPL/CPL) and/or complete base training with a different operator if it comes to that. Again, none of this is ideal or without issue, but the main point is getting a first cadet job on any licence in a recession bad enough that airlines are dropping their sponsored cadets is going to be extremely difficult.

Anyway, not trying to convince anyone either way (except maybe myself!) - just sharing my thoughts on it having gone through the process.
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Old 1st Feb 2023, 08:16
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When you say DHL, do they have a cadetship?
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Old 1st Feb 2023, 09:26
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Originally Posted by Jaikpatidar View Post
MPL just seems too good to be true. 18 months into the right seat?

EZY would make be perfect for me in an ideal world but would they hire straight out of flight school, i dont think so. Iím currently a PPL student and the debate of doing my CPL here is coming around the corner. Iíve got accommodation for modular, Iím local and am lucky enough to fund the MPL with no issue. When you mention 300 or more ahead of me, that does make me wonder how long Iíd be away from a type rating. The holding pool must equal the time of the MPL surely.

If i went modular, got a 320 type rating on my own regard. Would they take Direct Entry SOís with low hours?
Not really interested in building hours through instructing for 3 years or so.
Not too good be true at all. Thatís the whole point of an MPL, to get you into the right hand seat in 18 months.

Itís personal choice but I think youíd be taking a big gamble to turn down ezy. And just advice, if you simply buy a type rating youíre flushing 30k down the toilet. No one will hire you and itíll be a completely wasted exercise.
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Old 1st Feb 2023, 14:21
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Originally Posted by VariablePitchP View Post
Not too good be true at all. Thatís the whole point of an MPL, to get you into the right hand seat in 18 months.

Itís personal choice but I think youíd be taking a big gamble to turn down ezy. And just advice, if you simply buy a type rating youíre flushing 30k down the toilet. No one will hire you and itíll be a completely wasted exercise.
I'm that case maybe I need to re-evaluate my decision to not apply to ezy - I got a very different response in my thread asking the same question a few weeks ago!

Do you really think it is a gamble to train normally as opposed to an MPL to finish in 18-24 months? If things are positive for easyJet and they're hiring their vast number of MPLs, surely that puts fATPLs in just as good a situation applying to whatever airline they want that is hiring low hour cadets - provided they have the aptitude to pass arbitrary assessments.
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Old 1st Feb 2023, 15:03
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Originally Posted by Jaikpatidar View Post
When you say DHL, do they have a cadetship?
DHK were hiring lots of cadets before Covid.
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Old 1st Feb 2023, 19:05
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Originally Posted by TayBee View Post
I'm that case maybe I need to re-evaluate my decision to not apply to ezy - I got a very different response in my thread asking the same question a few weeks ago!

Do you really think it is a gamble to train normally as opposed to an MPL to finish in 18-24 months? If things are positive for easyJet and they're hiring their vast number of MPLs, surely that puts fATPLs in just as good a situation applying to whatever airline they want that is hiring low hour cadets - provided they have the aptitude to pass arbitrary assessments.
Imagine you got your licence today, height of the hiring wave. Your options are to fork out 30K for a Ryanair type rating, or get bonded with Wizz. Ryanair would be infinitely preferable there but that assumes you get in, and they have a thing about their bespoke APS, more moneyÖ Get into Wizz and itís just a race to 500 hours to get elsewhere.

At least with Ezy youíve got a career airline if you want it.

Plenty of anti MPL sentiment, there has always been anti MPL sentiment, from the same sorts that often shout people down for using question banks rather than bothering to commit to memory the modal phase difference between conjunctive NDB transmitter frequencies.

If youíd have graduated with an ATPL in 2020 youíd have been equally screwed, there seems to be this myth that they all got jobs. NO ONE got jobs. At least with Ezy theyíve all been taken back on and when itís all said and done will be on 130K as captains within another 4 to 5 years. Not too shabby all things considered.
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Old 1st Feb 2023, 23:57
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Originally Posted by VariablePitchP View Post
Imagine you got your licence today, height of the hiring wave. Your options are to fork out 30K for a Ryanair type rating, or get bonded with Wizz. Ryanair would be infinitely preferable there but that assumes you get in, and they have a thing about their bespoke APS, more moneyÖ Get into Wizz and itís just a race to 500 hours to get elsewhere.

At least with Ezy youíve got a career airline if you want it.

Plenty of anti MPL sentiment, there has always been anti MPL sentiment, from the same sorts that often shout people down for using question banks rather than bothering to commit to memory the modal phase difference between conjunctive NDB transmitter frequencies.

If youíd have graduated with an ATPL in 2020 youíd have been equally screwed, there seems to be this myth that they all got jobs. NO ONE got jobs. At least with Ezy theyíve all been taken back on and when itís all said and done will be on 130K as captains within another 4 to 5 years. Not too shabby all things considered.
To me it feels like the choice between having the nagging thought in the back of my mind that I might not get hired after I get my fATPL, or that EZY might not want me before I finish my MPL and TR.
Which one of those thoughts is worse, I'm not entirely sure. It has always alarmed me that if I were dropped as an MPL I'd have spent 100% of my liquid assets on a program that doesn't transfer, whereas if I'm not hired with an ATPL, it's a pain in the backside but at least I can keep it ticking over whilst I wait - at moderate expense I'm sure, but at less expense than starting again off the back of a self funded MPL.

I do wonder though whether maybe more faith is required on my part in the likelihood of easyJet retaining all of their MPLs: perhaps time for a month or so of reflection and then re-evaluating whether to apply to their program given I want to work for easyJet, or whether to do an fATPL anyway and afford myself a lot more latitude.

I dare say if easyJet are hiring all their MPLs then other airlines will be hiring up fATPLs (and I imagine there not to be an extreme surplus in the UK); so perhaps there isn't a 'wrong' choice anymore, rather just different paths to the same result.
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Old 6th Feb 2023, 08:21
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What i can understand here is that the EasyJet MPL is worth a go before its too late and recruitment for airlines slows down.

I’ve always seen EasyJet as a full career and i think I’d definitely regret it if I didn’t do the MPL. Do many people apply the MPL and how long is the holding pool once training is completed

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Old 11th Feb 2023, 06:54
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I can’t comment on the up to dates of the scheme as I passed through 5 years ago. What I can say is, like most things, it comes down to timing. Ezy were very good with us and supported us from a distance. If you appear at the end of training unscathed with a half sensible training record and they are still hiring, excellent.
If you are the ace of training but get to the end in the middle of recession, expect to be cast aside for a while.

No complaints from me, enjoyed my time there, moved on and took my MPL with me to another airline no issues whatsoever.
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Old 1st Mar 2023, 06:26
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Dire situation

Iím not so sure what the best route would be.
When my son started his training (pre COVID), upon balance of probabilities of securing first FO position, we opted for integrated.

Unfortunately since completing his fATPL and MCC, heís been in the flying school pool. EasyJet came to the school in November and wanted some pilots, my son due to COVID-19 restrictions finished 1 week later than some of his group. At that time he missed out.
However since then they have requested for more pilots in February, this time easyJet are saying that his training finished more than 12 months ago and they want freshly trained pilots. They have bypassed some 30 pilots in the pool.

I have spoken to BALPA and CAA, they are very sympathetic and find this easyJet policy immoral, however they cannot help.

My advice would be to do MPL
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Old 1st Mar 2023, 12:00
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Originally Posted by Pilotsfather View Post
I’m not so sure what the best route would be.
When my son started his training (pre COVID), upon balance of probabilities of securing first FO position, we opted for integrated.

Unfortunately since completing his fATPL and MCC, he’s been in the flying school pool. EasyJet came to the school in November and wanted some pilots, my son due to COVID-19 restrictions finished 1 week later than some of his group. At that time he missed out.
However since then they have requested for more pilots in February, this time easyJet are saying that his training finished more than 12 months ago and they want freshly trained pilots. They have bypassed some 30 pilots in the pool.

I have spoken to BALPA and CAA, they are very sympathetic and find this easyJet policy immoral, however they cannot help.

My advice would be to do MPL
Which flying school did you go through?
I know a reasonably large number of people (more than I can count on my fingers at least) who graduated in the midst of covid (mostly from a company called Leading Edge, a couple from FTE and a few dotted around CAE/Skyborne/FTA), a couple of years before recruitment started picking up.

Despite this, they have now all got jobs at various places - predominantly wizz and Ryanair, but if you want a comprehensive list to give to your son to have a look at I've seen Wizz, RYR, LoganAir, Jet2, and DHL. That's a lot of airlines to apply to, and I'm sure there are more than that, but those are the names I recall.
EasyJet is likely saturated by their MPL programme, but horizons are far broader than them: those I know at Wizz now also say that as a first airline they are a fairly pleasant place to work - Wizz Air UK pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools (pilotjobsnetwork.com) - and their salary is now in line with the likes of easyJet as well assuming flying hours do not tank.

I don't want to accuse you or your son of 'tunnel visioning' EasyJet, but provided your son's training performance was good, and ideally if his CV contains things other than A Levels->ATO, I don't see why there isn't a job he can get at the moment: compared to what things looked like not that long ago, there are an awful lot out there.
And with some of those I know now looking for their second jobs, there is a reasonable outflow of pilots from those 'starter' airlines as well.
EasyJet is not the be all and end all of one's career, and I don't think missing out on a job offer from them because of unfortunate timings is necessarily a sufficient argument to tie yourself to the airline if you don't feel comfortable doing so in this climate. With that argument, university graduates who miss the cut for a scheme from one company would be saying there is no point doing a degree.
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Old 1st Mar 2023, 12:15
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Originally Posted by VariablePitchP View Post
At least with Ezy you’ve got a career airline if you want it.
You don't seriously imagine anyone could last an entire career working at that pace do you? Few would manage anywhere near half of that before burnout laid them low.
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