L3 Harris, the final shafting
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Dubai
Forgive me if I’m wrong but isn’t the MPL no longer legally binding to an airline, meaning the licence is no longer restricted to the operator?
I have seen jobs out there saying they accept MPL licence incidentally German operators (AeroLogic and CargoLux).
I have seen jobs out there saying they accept MPL licence incidentally German operators (AeroLogic and CargoLux).
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 343
Likes: 2
From: UK
I recall that when the big schools first offered MPL there was a real worry that no one would sign up and so they issued a guarantee that, should the associated airline go under, the school would pick up the tab to get the student an fATPL. Those days would appear to have gone, sadly.
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Rome
If you want to start immediately go for modular. you will save money and in the meantime, you can work or do a degree. If you want to do the integrated course I will wait at least one year if no more. Unfortunately, the global situation is changing continuously and no one knows when the aviation industry will recover.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 45
Likes: 4
From: South Coast
I understand how awful it must feel for those of you caught up in this mess. Can I have the answers to a few questions just so I understand what’s going on.
Say the MPL consists of 80 hours aeroplanes and 80 hours airline simulators.
Are all of the 80 hours aeroplanes credited against a CPL/IR with a frozen ATPL? Or only a proportion of those hours counted?
Presumably no airliner simulator time is counted against a CPL/IR with frozen ATPL.
What exactly are L3 not refunding and what exactly are they proposing charges for?
Best of luck all in these uncertain times.
Say the MPL consists of 80 hours aeroplanes and 80 hours airline simulators.
Are all of the 80 hours aeroplanes credited against a CPL/IR with a frozen ATPL? Or only a proportion of those hours counted?
Presumably no airliner simulator time is counted against a CPL/IR with frozen ATPL.
What exactly are L3 not refunding and what exactly are they proposing charges for?
Best of luck all in these uncertain times.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: London
This is utterly shameful. These cadets have been hung out to dry by both their training school and their prospective future employers. At a time when Airlines are taking government loans (that are being written off) in order to keep them afloat, this is how they choose to treat those who have made a commitment to work with them. As noted above other options have been taken in the past. This is no way to treat customers or staff, and nobody should forget that. Cadets have not had a voice for a long time and hence the rising cost of entering the industry, but this treatment is beyond the pail.
I think these cadets should take legal advice. It is against the law for any company to abuse a dominant position in the market, it is also an anti-trust issue to tie sales of products when in that dominant market position.
These are difficult times for everybody, but for a corporate to dump the entire risk and impact of this situation on a vulnerable (and easily bullied) customer base is nothing short of shameful!
I think these cadets should take legal advice. It is against the law for any company to abuse a dominant position in the market, it is also an anti-trust issue to tie sales of products when in that dominant market position.
These are difficult times for everybody, but for a corporate to dump the entire risk and impact of this situation on a vulnerable (and easily bullied) customer base is nothing short of shameful!
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: Burgos, Spain
"Are all of the 80 hours aeroplanes credited against a CPL/IR with a frozen ATPL? Or only a proportion of those hours counted?"
I might be wrong but as far as I understand it from my team, there is no "conversion" between MPL and ATPL... so there is no credit for those flight hours
Would love to hear I am wrong and explaining how the credit can be done
I might be wrong but as far as I understand it from my team, there is no "conversion" between MPL and ATPL... so there is no credit for those flight hours
Would love to hear I am wrong and explaining how the credit can be done
de minimus non curat lex
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,510
Likes: 7
From: sunny troon
WITHOUT PREJUDICE
It may well depend how the flying syllabus is written.
If it is the case that up what would be required for PPL issue, the syllabus is common for both MPL & fATPL students, and the progress test taken at that point is by a FI authorised to conduct PPL tests, then it may be possible for a PPL to be issued. If not, then a test now by an approved person is required for PPL issue.
After this point there is probably a divergence in syllabus with more SE followed by some ME flying, both resulting in a shortfall compared to the CPL/IR syllabus. Simulator time ME would also have a shortfall in hours.
Phase 2 & 3 now occurs, with 30 multicrew simulator exercises in say an A320 or B737, totalling 120 hours training.
Phase 4 is the Type Rating Course (standard issue)& base training. The TRI & TRE must also be both MPL approved instructors.
The type rating paperwork now fully completed triggers MPL issue.
The Regulator would hopefully take a pragmatic view and recognise that at least the PPL can be issued.
Furthermore, hopefully recognise that if appropriate training and testing in SE and ME to cover the shortfall is completed then CPL/IR is possible.
A modular route would require the necessary hour building to “top up” MPL course flying to a point before the CPL & IR modular courses.
All this must be carefully executed fully complying with what the REGULATOR written instructions specify.
My I end by saying this is a dreadful situation to find yourself in, through no fault of your own.
Any future scheme must have the airline fully sponsoring the cadet as is/was the case of Aer Lingus.
The only decent show in town.
"Are all of the 80 hours aeroplanes credited against a CPL/IR with a frozen ATPL? Or only a proportion of those hours counted?"
I might be wrong but as far as I understand it from my team, there is no "conversion" between MPL and ATPL... so there is no credit for those flight hours
Would love to hear I am wrong and explaining how the credit can be done
I might be wrong but as far as I understand it from my team, there is no "conversion" between MPL and ATPL... so there is no credit for those flight hours
Would love to hear I am wrong and explaining how the credit can be done
If it is the case that up what would be required for PPL issue, the syllabus is common for both MPL & fATPL students, and the progress test taken at that point is by a FI authorised to conduct PPL tests, then it may be possible for a PPL to be issued. If not, then a test now by an approved person is required for PPL issue.
After this point there is probably a divergence in syllabus with more SE followed by some ME flying, both resulting in a shortfall compared to the CPL/IR syllabus. Simulator time ME would also have a shortfall in hours.
Phase 2 & 3 now occurs, with 30 multicrew simulator exercises in say an A320 or B737, totalling 120 hours training.
Phase 4 is the Type Rating Course (standard issue)& base training. The TRI & TRE must also be both MPL approved instructors.
The type rating paperwork now fully completed triggers MPL issue.
The Regulator would hopefully take a pragmatic view and recognise that at least the PPL can be issued.
Furthermore, hopefully recognise that if appropriate training and testing in SE and ME to cover the shortfall is completed then CPL/IR is possible.
A modular route would require the necessary hour building to “top up” MPL course flying to a point before the CPL & IR modular courses.
All this must be carefully executed fully complying with what the REGULATOR written instructions specify.
My I end by saying this is a dreadful situation to find yourself in, through no fault of your own.
Any future scheme must have the airline fully sponsoring the cadet as is/was the case of Aer Lingus.
The only decent show in town.
Last edited by parkfell; 27th September 2020 at 07:17. Reason: TRI/TRE v. MPLi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 91
From: Somewhere