M1 Visa or no Visa and SEVIS approved schools in the USA
Thread Starter
I wrote to a FAA office
Contact the school's administrator.
Laws and rules may have recently changed.
* I don't think you need a visa but check with the school *
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Conflicting information
As per the title, I have received some conflicting information which I would like to clear up.
In a nutshell, an F1 visa pertains to an academic course which allows OPT and the M1 is for vocational courses (I've never seen any mentioning of work).
After coming across this website (clearly official and therefore reputable) on point B (under benefits) it is mentioned that work is indeed possible.
M1 Visa - Easily Apply Online - Study in Vocational Institutions in the US
In a nutshell, an F1 visa pertains to an academic course which allows OPT and the M1 is for vocational courses (I've never seen any mentioning of work).
After coming across this website (clearly official and therefore reputable) on point B (under benefits) it is mentioned that work is indeed possible.
M1 Visa - Easily Apply Online - Study in Vocational Institutions in the US
Thread Starter
How a website looks does not make it reputable and yes they condense about 25 pages of visa law into one short paragraph.
True, however you may only work after gaining approval and in your field of study. You may do so for one month for every 3 months you have studied.
But you still need to apply for approval.
And I really don't see what work you are going to do in 2 months after a 6 month 0- CPL course.
Washing airplanes at the school maybe?
Keep in mind that an M1 is not a aviation specific visa. Never has been and never will.
This means that under M1 visa law there are a lot of specifics that do not apply to aviation in any shape or form.
Internship, study field related work etc etc etc.
This is one of the reasons as to why this whole flight training on a visa is so convaluted.
You can legally work part-time on campus. You may also work off campus if necessary (with prior approval from the USCIS)
But you still need to apply for approval.
And I really don't see what work you are going to do in 2 months after a 6 month 0- CPL course.
Washing airplanes at the school maybe?
Keep in mind that an M1 is not a aviation specific visa. Never has been and never will.
This means that under M1 visa law there are a lot of specifics that do not apply to aviation in any shape or form.
Internship, study field related work etc etc etc.
This is one of the reasons as to why this whole flight training on a visa is so convaluted.
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Well, this is the first time I've come across any work being possible on an M1 after extensive research over the last 6 months! Perhaps I was confusing the issue by associating the M1 visa predominantly with flight training. Nevertheless, thanks for clearing that up.
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I am currently enrolling at one of the US flight school in the U.S which is also FAA recognized and i am a foreign student. I have yet still to receive the I-20 Form which is more than a week now, since i submitted the cost of estimate to comply. By the way, i would like to ask, if its practical to register all flying courses(CPL,IR,Multi) on TSA all at once? And also, though i will pay for the fingerprints thru them, since they are also a fingerprint collector. the fingerprint will take place there, and im confused if that processed is the same as during your visa processed. Plus, it probably will take a few days to approved my fingerprints and on what i read, you can initial start your training and then once your fingerprint have been approved, you can commence your flight training.
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You build your profile (lots of personal details, address history, ID details blah blah) and then you submit the 'training request' online, obviously for initial most likely first. Fingerprinting, as long as you keep your profile/name/doesnt get lost in transit before digitised, is 'good for life' for this TSA thing.
Speed of processing depends on where you do it. YOu can do it in few places outside USA, but that's at premium cost. If done at local sheriff's/police&court facility, it's normally within day or two, as long as you got your online side of TSA done. It is bit of question of 'piece of string' length to give specifics.
Regarding starting flying before the permission, well, I'm sure not all adhered to it. OTOH, 'demo'/trial lesson x10 is perfectly legal, as it's not training course per se. You can also hit the self-study, get over jetlag, do bit of socialising etc. If you're on whole zero to hero course, day here or there won't matter much.
Stop worrying about 'week and not in hand yet' I-20. You are aware admin can take day or two, then snail mail from USA to wherever you are. What you can do, is register on TSA website and have all your details there ready, so you have fingeprints done and request filed at earliest opportunity.
Speed of processing depends on where you do it. YOu can do it in few places outside USA, but that's at premium cost. If done at local sheriff's/police&court facility, it's normally within day or two, as long as you got your online side of TSA done. It is bit of question of 'piece of string' length to give specifics.
Regarding starting flying before the permission, well, I'm sure not all adhered to it. OTOH, 'demo'/trial lesson x10 is perfectly legal, as it's not training course per se. You can also hit the self-study, get over jetlag, do bit of socialising etc. If you're on whole zero to hero course, day here or there won't matter much.
Stop worrying about 'week and not in hand yet' I-20. You are aware admin can take day or two, then snail mail from USA to wherever you are. What you can do, is register on TSA website and have all your details there ready, so you have fingeprints done and request filed at earliest opportunity.
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By the way, i would like to ask, if its practical to register all flying courses(CPL,IR,Multi) on TSA all at once?
Final Approval Granted: The Candidate has been granted final approval for the training request.
Training must commence within 180 days of approval and finish within 365 days of approval.
So unless you are confident that you will start and complete each course within the stipulated window, you should apply for each course as and when you expect to start.
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you can initial start your training and then once your fingerprint have been approved,
The email from the TSA states :
THIS EMAIL DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO BEGIN FLIGHT TRAINING, NOR DOES IT INITIATE ANY WAIT PERIODS.
All required information, including fingerprints, associated with the following Request for Training has been received.
Based on information available at this time, the Transportation Security Administration grants Permission to Initiate Training for the following flight training request:
Based on information available at this time, the Transportation Security Administration grants Permission to Initiate Training for the following flight training request:
Based on information available at this time, the Transportation Security Administration grants Final Approval for the following flight training request:
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Hi fellows,
I just wanted to ask something related to the M1 type of Visa.
Last year I visited the US for a short-term course and straight after that I left the US. On the passport page where my VISA was issued it says expiration date 10/2017.
This year in fact very soon I am planning to go back to US to do the Flight Instructor Course.
How the paperwork process will look like this time considering the above?
Do I have to do a new application for the institution i am planning to go?
Any help is appreciated.
Thank you !!
I just wanted to ask something related to the M1 type of Visa.
Last year I visited the US for a short-term course and straight after that I left the US. On the passport page where my VISA was issued it says expiration date 10/2017.
This year in fact very soon I am planning to go back to US to do the Flight Instructor Course.
How the paperwork process will look like this time considering the above?
Do I have to do a new application for the institution i am planning to go?
Any help is appreciated.
Thank you !!
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The visa issuance is sponsored by the company to whom you are visiting. Once you leave that company (Flight School in your case) the visa is then null and void and when you want to return to the US to a different flight school, you will need to start the visa process again.
Also - the visa expiry date doesn't mean anything - it is the CBP Officer at the port of entry who will determine how long you can stay.
The visa itself simply gets you onto a plane to the US - not how long you can stay.
This is all documented on the USCIS website if you go look.
Also - the visa expiry date doesn't mean anything - it is the CBP Officer at the port of entry who will determine how long you can stay.
The visa itself simply gets you onto a plane to the US - not how long you can stay.
This is all documented on the USCIS website if you go look.
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The visa issuance is sponsored by the company to whom you are visiting. Once you leave that company (Flight School in your case) the visa is then null and void and when you want to return to the US to a different flight school, you will need to start the visa process again.
SEVIS provide guidance on this and state the only thing required is a new SEVIS fee if the visa is still valid : Travel | ICE
May I re-establish M-1 student status by obtaining a new initial Form I-20 and re-entering the United States?
Yes, you may re-establish M-1 student status. However, in SEVIS, you will be an Initial student. You must pay the I-901 SEVIS fee, and you will lose any time that you have built up towards qualification for practical training.
Yes, you may re-establish M-1 student status. However, in SEVIS, you will be an Initial student. You must pay the I-901 SEVIS fee, and you will lose any time that you have built up towards qualification for practical training.
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Changing Schools, in the USA, have M1 visa, ... can change to part 61 through ESTA ?
Hi, I have had a number of issues to do with quality at the school I am at here in California.
I am about to leave and transfer out my i20. Friends here in SD who are pilots and members of a local flying club have suggested I use the ESTA program to reenter the USA and study part time with them as a part of my vacation. The planes are a lot cheaper than the schools, the instructors friends.
ESTA is a visa waiver program. I have applied and been accepted. I am studying towards my PPL with an goal of SEL IR commercial. I would finish my PPL part 61, leave the country and then return to do IR and SEL commercial under a SEVIS school.
I am very torn as to whether to go to another part 141 school to finish my PPL, whereby the migration legalities are very clear, (but frankly I feel burned by recent part 141 experience), or whether to go the part 61 route part time. (part time is less than 18 hours per week). I understand that I have to pay for a TSA change of venue. I will be training on the same craft that I named in my initial TSA application.
Looking forward to hearing from anyone who has tried this, or looked into it and decided against.
I am about to leave and transfer out my i20. Friends here in SD who are pilots and members of a local flying club have suggested I use the ESTA program to reenter the USA and study part time with them as a part of my vacation. The planes are a lot cheaper than the schools, the instructors friends.
ESTA is a visa waiver program. I have applied and been accepted. I am studying towards my PPL with an goal of SEL IR commercial. I would finish my PPL part 61, leave the country and then return to do IR and SEL commercial under a SEVIS school.
I am very torn as to whether to go to another part 141 school to finish my PPL, whereby the migration legalities are very clear, (but frankly I feel burned by recent part 141 experience), or whether to go the part 61 route part time. (part time is less than 18 hours per week). I understand that I have to pay for a TSA change of venue. I will be training on the same craft that I named in my initial TSA application.
Looking forward to hearing from anyone who has tried this, or looked into it and decided against.
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It says pretty clearly on the US department of state website you cannot study on the visa waiver programme :
Visa Waiver Program
This is backed up by 8 CFR 214.2(b)(7)
It doesn't matter it's part time - it's normally clearly prohibited if you are studying for credit as they call it.
Visa Waiver Program
This is backed up by 8 CFR 214.2(b)(7)
It doesn't matter it's part time - it's normally clearly prohibited if you are studying for credit as they call it.
Last edited by BigGrecian; 18th May 2015 at 12:08.
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BigGrecian.
I believe that if you are sponsored by School A, leave and then wish to return to School B, that you need to get the Visa transferred (assuming that it is still in currency) to the new School and if you were in good standing with the previous School A..
I do not believe that you can just walk into School B - as they are not your sponsor according to the Visa in the passport.
The Sponsor is basically responsible for your time in the US.
That was the point I was making.
I believe that if you are sponsored by School A, leave and then wish to return to School B, that you need to get the Visa transferred (assuming that it is still in currency) to the new School and if you were in good standing with the previous School A..
I do not believe that you can just walk into School B - as they are not your sponsor according to the Visa in the passport.
The Sponsor is basically responsible for your time in the US.
That was the point I was making.
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Options
I am in the following situation.
1. I have an FAA PPL based on my EASA-PPL.
2. I have done training in the USA before and my TSA account has my fingerprints preregisters.
3. I have been to, and rented from, a particular flight school in the USA several times before.
I want to go and do my FAA IR knowledge test (+ maybe a couple of hours training) at a school that is not SEVIS registered. They dont seem willing to get SEVIS registered for whatever reason and have told me that I don't need a VISA.
The main purpose of my trip is hour building for currency rather than training.
I find that nobody seems to know the law and I'm considering asking a lawyer to give me an opinion.
1. I have an FAA PPL based on my EASA-PPL.
2. I have done training in the USA before and my TSA account has my fingerprints preregisters.
3. I have been to, and rented from, a particular flight school in the USA several times before.
I want to go and do my FAA IR knowledge test (+ maybe a couple of hours training) at a school that is not SEVIS registered. They dont seem willing to get SEVIS registered for whatever reason and have told me that I don't need a VISA.
The main purpose of my trip is hour building for currency rather than training.
I find that nobody seems to know the law and I'm considering asking a lawyer to give me an opinion.
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What FAA certificate do you have that required you to submit a TSA request in the past (excluding a FAA 61.75 based on certificate)?
The school is not SEVIS approved because they have elected to not go and get Part 141 status which costs many $$. As a result they cannot sponsor a foreign student for a M1 visa and therefore will tell you a story that you don't need a visa in order to get your business - which is clearly incorrect as you say you are doing flight training towards a FAA IR attached to your 'based on' certificate.
You will also need to submit a TSA application for the IR training and meet the training requirements detailed in FAR 61.
Where are you planning to do your IR Flight Test when the time comes?
At the end of the day, you are responsible for your visa status not the Flight School regardless of what they might say to you.
The school is not SEVIS approved because they have elected to not go and get Part 141 status which costs many $$. As a result they cannot sponsor a foreign student for a M1 visa and therefore will tell you a story that you don't need a visa in order to get your business - which is clearly incorrect as you say you are doing flight training towards a FAA IR attached to your 'based on' certificate.
You will also need to submit a TSA application for the IR training and meet the training requirements detailed in FAR 61.
Where are you planning to do your IR Flight Test when the time comes?
At the end of the day, you are responsible for your visa status not the Flight School regardless of what they might say to you.
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Hey Guys!
I'm new here and I've spent the last hour reading the thread. Very informativ, thanks! But concerning my case it didn't help much yet.
I've been to Florida in Jan/Feb this year with a M1-Visa for getting my PPL. I passed the written test and the oral exam but couldn't go for the check ride because it was to late that day and next day I had to leave the country. I talked to the school's CEO, who told me he is about to state my training as finished (for visa purpose / immigration) since the check ride itself is not supposed to be part of flight training. For re-entry the United States I would just have to apply for VWP/ESTA like most European tourists.
Which I did six weeks later then... but bad luck again, the whole week nothing but IFR weather, I couldn't fly once (Sunshine State
) and left the U.S. again.
Now I'm done with Florida, I'm currently searching for a flight school in Arizona. My medical is valid until October 31 so I have to hurry up... which brings me to the questions: M1 again or ESTA again? Am I even able to get the same visa for the same course twice? What do you think?
Remember:
Any help is appreciated, thanks
I'm new here and I've spent the last hour reading the thread. Very informativ, thanks! But concerning my case it didn't help much yet.
I've been to Florida in Jan/Feb this year with a M1-Visa for getting my PPL. I passed the written test and the oral exam but couldn't go for the check ride because it was to late that day and next day I had to leave the country
. I talked to the school's CEO, who told me he is about to state my training as finished (for visa purpose / immigration) since the check ride itself is not supposed to be part of flight training. For re-entry the United States I would just have to apply for VWP/ESTA like most European tourists.Which I did six weeks later then... but bad luck again, the whole week nothing but IFR weather, I couldn't fly once (Sunshine State
) and left the U.S. again.Now I'm done with Florida, I'm currently searching for a flight school in Arizona. My medical is valid until October 31 so I have to hurry up... which brings me to the questions: M1 again or ESTA again? Am I even able to get the same visa for the same course twice? What do you think?
Remember:
- The M1 in my passport isn't valid anymore (as the immigration officer at the second entry has confirmed)
- I already have all requirement for the exam, I just need a CFI to sign me up, I don't need to have any flight training (but of course I will, I haven't flew myself ever since)
- I'll need less than 18 hours obviously (after reading the thread maybe a myth anyway).
Any help is appreciated, thanks
Thread Starter
True, a CFI is required to give you at least 3 hours of training before he/she is authorized to sign you off.
Training is training I'm afraid and everybody here understands it's frustrating but you lack of progress or weather issues are not Immigration's concern.
Get another visa.
I'd actually recommend you finish your training using a different airplane then you used initially, this way you get a little more out of the experience.
Training is training I'm afraid and everybody here understands it's frustrating but you lack of progress or weather issues are not Immigration's concern.
Get another visa.
I'd actually recommend you finish your training using a different airplane then you used initially, this way you get a little more out of the experience.