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M1 Visa or no Visa and SEVIS approved schools in the USA

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M1 Visa or no Visa and SEVIS approved schools in the USA

Old 19th Oct 2016, 13:16
  #241 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
Posts: 578
If you undertook training in the United States for the addition of an instrument rating while admitted under B-class visa (includes aliens admitted under the visa waiver program) then you were in breach of immigration law. See the memorandum from the DOJ, and regulations at 8 CFR, referred to earlier in this thread.
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Old 21st Oct 2016, 13:07
  #242 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 18
Canadian Conversion to FAA ATPL

I am converting my Canadian ATPL to an FAA ATPL. My licence verification has been completed, I have an FAA class 1 medical. I have filled out the TSA form and the school has verified I will be a student.

I have to do the 5 day course , do I need a visa for the 5 day course?

Again I am Canadian and there is a reciprocal agreement with the ATPL

iaveight is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2016, 17:01
  #243 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: FL, USA
Posts: 2,647
@ iaveight,

No you don't need a visa.
Technically you don't need a sign off for the FAA ATP check ride and formally you don't need any training.
Since you have a "foreign" ATPL already there is definitely no 'increase in skill level'.

That having said, the irony is that if you fail you do need a sign off from a CFI which requires training.
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Old 23rd Oct 2016, 18:13
  #244 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
Posts: 578
B2N2, iaveight,

No you don't need a visa.
An I20 certificate is still needed as is payment of the SEVIS fee. See here.

Technically you don't need a sign off for the FAA ATP check ride [...]
No practical testing is required for the conversion of a TCCA ATPL to an FAA ATP Certificate under the Canada-US BASA and IPL.

[...] and formally you don't need any training.
S/he may need to complete the ATP Certification Training Program. See FAA AC 65-135A, Appendix I, table 3, footnote 5.

I have filled out the TSA form [...]
Why? Was this required for the ATP Certification Training Program, which is I assume what your 5-day course covers? FAA AC 65-135A, at 10(b)(4), states:

The pilot information that the FAA received on the form will be verified with TCCA. Further, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) will conduct a security threat assessment.


(b) The security assessment conducted by the TSA does not satisfy the requirements of a foreign pilot training clearance. [...]

Since you have a "foreign" ATPL already there is definitely no 'increase in skill level'.
This is not an infallible yardstick for determining whether a security threat assessment by TSA is needed. The Alien Flight Student Program FAQ question #2 states for category 3 training events:

All other training events on aircraft with MTOW of 12,500 lbs. or less are exempt from AFSP regulations, including Commercial Pilot License (CPL), Airline Transport Pilot License (ATPL), and Certified Flight Instructor (CFI). These events are exempt only if the candidate holds an FAA stand-alone pilot certificate."
The security threat assessment in iaveight's case, using the BASA and IPL, will however be done in the background once he submits FAA Form 8060-71 (Verification of authenticity of foreign license, rating and medical certification).

[I]f you fail you do need a sign off from a CFI which requires training.
I'd be interested in seeing a justification for this claim.
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Old 23rd Oct 2016, 19:04
  #245 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Age: 43
Posts: 560
I take it you have to do the ATP-CTP, but don't need an ATP checkride?
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Old 23rd Oct 2016, 20:17
  #246 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,839
The FAA and Transport Canada have an agreement to accept each other's checkrides.

I'd be interested in seeing a justification for this claim.
From the ATP-CTP AC -


Failure to Pass. Applicants who do not pass the ATP Airplane Knowledge Test must follow the provisions provided in 61.49.

a.Authorized Instructor. For the purposes of the required retraining, “an authorized instructor” is an instructor that:

(1) Meets the instructor qualifications described in paragraph 10(a) of this AC;

(2) Has completed the ground instructor training requirements in paragraph 10(b) of this AC; and

(3) Is employed by a training provider authorized to provide the ATP CTP.

So it's even worse than failing other writtens, you have to be signed off by an instructor in an ATP-CTP program.

Last edited by MarkerInbound; 25th Oct 2016 at 21:32.
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Old 25th Oct 2016, 14:11
  #247 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Oahu
Posts: 110
can any fellow members recommend any schools in the usa that are easa ppl approved? the ones that i could find the reviews are 50/50 i.e EFT and American Aviation Academy
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Old 25th Oct 2016, 15:39
  #248 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
Posts: 578
The list of ATOs under direct EASA oversight is here. Alternatively use an organisation operating as a satellite of an ATO in one of the Member States, e.g. Naples Air Center.
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 16:53
  #249 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 18

All done, FAA conversion, 737 type rating transferred from Canadian to FAA ATPL with 737 type rating. No ride required

Verification process FAA
Finger Prints TSA
letter of approval to train
ATP CTP course 6 days
Study for conversion exam ACM 60 Questions
FAA FISDO sign off
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Old 6th Mar 2017, 18:52
  #250 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1
Hi folks,

I've been reading up on the requirements for flight training in the U.S., and the more I'm researching the more confusing it gets. If someone could help me clarify things a little that would be most appreciated.
I live in Switzerland, where I've recently started my PPL training. Now, I'll be traveling the U.S. and Canada this spring, not for training but just as a vacation. However, I'd love to take a few flying lessons while I'm there, to get some aviation experience outside of my home country. I was thinking of maybe five or six hours at the most.

Now, apparently I would need to apply for the TSA foreign student program in order to start flight training in the United States. However, to obtain this permission it seems that I would also need a student visa (F1) or similar, which I don't have as of now (I'm traveling under the Visa Waiver program). But to get a student visa, I'd have to enroll in a full-time course??
That's where I'm stuck. Does anyone have some advice for me? As mentioned I don't intend to finish my training and/or apply for a license while abroad, I'm really just looking for some relaxed basic flying lessons.
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 08:44
  #251 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45
You cannot legally do flight training on a visa waiver or class B tourist visa. You need an M1 (vocational study) visa. To get that your flight school needs to issue you with the appropriate visa application form endorsed with their details and verification that you are their potential student.

Separately you need to open a TSA account (Homeland Security) and start the vetting process with them which will include getting fingerprints taken at the US Embassy. The flight school can only let you fly when the TSA approval has come through (although trial flight is exempt).

The reason for two separate processes is that both the State Department (for visas) and Homeland Security (for internal security) have reacted to 9-11 in their own way and they don't bother to integrate their requirements.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 18:41
  #252 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Mumbai
Age: 31
Posts: 61
Hello guys,
I have been going thru numerous posts on here as well as google but do not seem to find a consistent answer. Would really appreciate an answer on my query.
I already hold an FAA CPL Single Engine IR licence. I did my BFR and IPC check last year on a B1/B2 Tourist visa. I also have 10 hrs on a multi a/c already.
I now want to get my Multi add on rating. Would I still need to have an M1 visa to do it? I remember emailing ATP last year and they said an add on can be done in less than 7 days so I wouldn't need an M1 visa. I also checked with another school now and they told me the same thing.
Is this true ? I do not want to break any rules and want to be sure.
I live in Grand Cayman and I would have to go to Jamaica to get a student visa which is a whole different process.
Much appreciated guys.
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Old 4th May 2017, 02:39
  #253 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
Posts: 578

The DOJ memorandum mentioned in post 79 is available at: http://www2.gtlaw.com/practices/immi.../17INSMemo.pdf

The CFRs highlighted in the memorandum, prohibiting persons admitted under a B-class visa from undertaking a course of study, may be accessed at https://www.ecfr.gov/ (see title 8).
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Old 20th May 2017, 16:58
  #254 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: FL, USA
Posts: 2,647
Rah, a Multi engine rating is a "significant change" in your experience and skill level. Therefore a Visa is required including the TSA approval and background check.

Shun, as long as you do not intend to use those hours to apply for a certificate or rating in the USA you will be ok for the occasional "lesson" which sounds more like sightseeing flights anyway.
The hours won't count in Europe anyway.
Just don't make it more then a couple of flights as that would change the intention.
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Old 1st Jun 2017, 13:04
  #255 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1
Hii i am from India.I want to do my CPL training in the USA but really confused in choosing the right school.I'm looking for flying schools which are highly reputed and not too expensive.I have few in mind Phoenix East,PAN AM,Aerosim,ATP what are your views on these?I believe there are few schools which are approved to issue F-1 Visa which gives student a 1 year work authorization in addition to the duration of the training.Phoenix East & ATP are few of those which offer F-1 Visa and guarenteed CFI job after the completion of the CFI course.I would prefer those which offer F-1 Visa & guarenteed CFI job because i want to build my flying hours before getting into airlines.Any suggestions around California & Florida?

What is the difference between F.A.R PART 141 COURSE & F.A.R PART 61 COURSE?How should anyone be sure of choosing one.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 20:33
  #256 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Bariloche
Posts: 8
Link International Student and Exchange Visitor Program (SEVP)

Hi there,

the link to a list of flight schools, provided by B2N2 "International Student and Exchange Visitor Program (SEVP)" no longer seems to work.

Has anyone got the updated list or link to the same ?

Thanks !
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 12:28
  #257 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
Posts: 578
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Old 15th Jul 2017, 22:02
  #258 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 4
EASA in USA (or FAA to EASA)

I have looked on this forum & tried some of the posted links but can't quite find what I'm looking for.

I live in UK but would like to obtain my PPL(H) while in the USA. I have information about visas etc but I want to know which training providers in the USA also offer EASA options.
I have looked here: https://www.easa.europa.eu/download/...rtificates.pdf but they seem to be fixed wings providers.

Alternatively can anyone enlighten me on what the conversion from FAA to EASA would entail (& cost!). I've tried looking at some EASA regulations but again can't find the info I need.

Col1 is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2017, 23:18
  #259 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Miraflores, Lima
Posts: 1
Do I need a M1 Visa for Multi Engine Training?

Hi, I have a B1/B2 and I need to get a Multi Engine Rating in my FAA Commercial Pilot License, since I have multiengine experience in my country, the estimated training is at most 15 hours that include ground and flight, I expected to do it in about 10 days. Do I need a M1 Visa?

I will appreciete any orientation.

lurod11 is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2017, 20:34
  #260 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Age: 59
Posts: 324
Greetings all,

I hold a current EASA ATPL with a rating on a type 'bigger' than 12,500lb. I have been offered work that will require me to hold an FAA ATPL and a new rating on a much heavier type. Licence is currently being validated.

I intend to take the ATP-CTP course at one Flight Safety facility, the knowledge test at a CATS facility local to that FSI centre, and then transfer to a second FSI centre for the type rating and ATP check ride.

TSA ought [!] not to be a problem - I've been through the process for my current type rating, and no details have changed since then - however, do I need three separate approvals? Or two? Or one? This question can, I believe, be answered by the training provider but I include it here as the answer might help someone else.

The $64,000 question is, of course, what visa is required? If I understand things correctly, the current 20k lb rating and foreign licence puts me in TSA's Cat 2... so, M1?

All help greatly appreciated!
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