Highland Flying School in Administration?
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Inv Flyer,
There are 2 full time instructors at Moray, and many part time available. As for the rest, well that person is entitled to their opinion and prune is full of various opinions. Please consider revising that post with the link and paste, because its a bit unnecessary under the circumstances and I'm sure I could find someone in the past saying something negative on prune about your place if I was that way inclined.
I hope things go well for HAC on the training side, never know, I might be after a job there sometime in the future. I'm sure you will pick up many members from HFS, which I am sorry to see go. Will drop by for a chat next time I'm across refueling. Regards.
There are 2 full time instructors at Moray, and many part time available. As for the rest, well that person is entitled to their opinion and prune is full of various opinions. Please consider revising that post with the link and paste, because its a bit unnecessary under the circumstances and I'm sure I could find someone in the past saying something negative on prune about your place if I was that way inclined.
I hope things go well for HAC on the training side, never know, I might be after a job there sometime in the future. I'm sure you will pick up many members from HFS, which I am sorry to see go. Will drop by for a chat next time I'm across refueling. Regards.
Last edited by Inshallah; 22nd Mar 2009 at 23:37.
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I had 4 hours on account along with 4 exams already passed with a view to completing the final 3 in the next fortnight and completing the ppl in the next 3-5 weeks. The money, if previous posts are to go by, will see its way back to me depending on if a letter is issued from the administrators. Those 4 exams though...will i get proof of them being sat or will i need to re-do the lot when i decide where im going to go to finish ppl?
Join Date: Nov 2008
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dont be fooled by this its not all true
there will be no one in the building this morning as hial have stuck a big padlock on the door.
the school don't own six aircraft, 2 are owned separately by one of the directors who leases it to the school.
one is stuck down at tayside requireing an annual since feb.
and has anyone seen the pa28 g-biit recently call tayside aviation for the real story .
i do hope you get your money back
i know already that people have been unable to get there money back directly
good luck
the school don't own six aircraft, 2 are owned separately by one of the directors who leases it to the school.
one is stuck down at tayside requireing an annual since feb.
and has anyone seen the pa28 g-biit recently call tayside aviation for the real story .
i do hope you get your money back
i know already that people have been unable to get there money back directly
good luck
Join Date: Nov 2008
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your student records act now!!!
as the old hfs building has been seized by the airport
it would appear that your student records are still there
you should be able to get your hands on them
highland aero club are on the phone as i write negotiating this facility with the airport.
hope this helps
i will get a phone number if anyone wishes to contact and get there records back.
it would appear that your student records are still there
you should be able to get your hands on them
highland aero club are on the phone as i write negotiating this facility with the airport.
hope this helps
i will get a phone number if anyone wishes to contact and get there records back.
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reply to S. Daedulus
I agree with th first paragraph 99%
What's happened?
The school gave no indication it was in financial trouble. It took monies from students and ppl's knowing that. While taking also monies for xmas flying vouchers (some of which were to give young children their first taste of flying). What has happened to this money..... I bet the records for such sales unless paid by credit card are "lost".
I think this is a discraceful way to conduct business.
I have also heard that staff have been paid with bouncing cheques or remain unpaid.... again I ask what has happened to the money raised by the sale of gift vouchers at xmas.
It is a criminal offence to write cheques knowing that there are no funds to cover them. I hope it is also a criminal offence to solicit voucher and credit sales knowing they will not be honoured. I would urge all creditors to contact the police and take their advice in addition to any other action they may be considering.
I would suggest (but hope this is not the case) that there is no likelyhood of any creditor getting their full money back unless it is protected by a credit card agreement or similar.
The school are not in excellent shape at all and this is why trading has stopped. This is why nobody including myself wants to buy it.
In my opion the schools most valuable aircraft, at best would fetch £14,000.00 in a already depressed market. Please note that it remains at the maintainence agent with an estimated price tag for work carried out on it of £7,000.00. The sale would release £7,000.00 not enough even to repay 1 student who has foolishly paid in advance (not by credit card) for 100hrs flying. Of the eight students I know, they are owed combined £30,000.00, two of which have not paid by credit card.
I wonder which 1/3 of aircraft owned would cover this. "IT" is the one I describe above.
I think the person to whom i am replying has at least attended the Maggie and Peter school of business.
I do however have a lot of sympathy for them. I think i am not alone in suggesting that if they had indicated troubles on the horizon that a lot of the students of the school both past and present would have "rallied round". Perhaps even a share issue in the Ltd company.... after all people have shares in football teams and only a couple of these make profit.
I used to consider myself a personal friend of Maggie and Pete and I write this hoping I still am.
Derek Inverness and David Glasgow
What's happened?
The school gave no indication it was in financial trouble. It took monies from students and ppl's knowing that. While taking also monies for xmas flying vouchers (some of which were to give young children their first taste of flying). What has happened to this money..... I bet the records for such sales unless paid by credit card are "lost".
I think this is a discraceful way to conduct business.
I have also heard that staff have been paid with bouncing cheques or remain unpaid.... again I ask what has happened to the money raised by the sale of gift vouchers at xmas.
It is a criminal offence to write cheques knowing that there are no funds to cover them. I hope it is also a criminal offence to solicit voucher and credit sales knowing they will not be honoured. I would urge all creditors to contact the police and take their advice in addition to any other action they may be considering.
I would suggest (but hope this is not the case) that there is no likelyhood of any creditor getting their full money back unless it is protected by a credit card agreement or similar.
The school are not in excellent shape at all and this is why trading has stopped. This is why nobody including myself wants to buy it.
In my opion the schools most valuable aircraft, at best would fetch £14,000.00 in a already depressed market. Please note that it remains at the maintainence agent with an estimated price tag for work carried out on it of £7,000.00. The sale would release £7,000.00 not enough even to repay 1 student who has foolishly paid in advance (not by credit card) for 100hrs flying. Of the eight students I know, they are owed combined £30,000.00, two of which have not paid by credit card.
I wonder which 1/3 of aircraft owned would cover this. "IT" is the one I describe above.
I think the person to whom i am replying has at least attended the Maggie and Peter school of business.
I do however have a lot of sympathy for them. I think i am not alone in suggesting that if they had indicated troubles on the horizon that a lot of the students of the school both past and present would have "rallied round". Perhaps even a share issue in the Ltd company.... after all people have shares in football teams and only a couple of these make profit.
I used to consider myself a personal friend of Maggie and Pete and I write this hoping I still am.
Derek Inverness and David Glasgow
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Check with the CAA before you start handing out training records they have to be kept for 5 years after the student has finished training.
Normally they either get sent to the CAA or a local PPL examiner takes charge of them and forwards them on to the next training organisation.
You can give out photo copies but don't give out the originals until you have spoken to Gatwick.
Normally they either get sent to the CAA or a local PPL examiner takes charge of them and forwards them on to the next training organisation.
You can give out photo copies but don't give out the originals until you have spoken to Gatwick.
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HAC don't have my permission to have my student records. If they even touch them I'll be suing both HAC and HIAL under the data protection act. The only people with the right to touch the student records are the CAA and the student themselves. I suggest No Bearde Woman and his cronies stay well clear.
All that has been proven in this situation is that we have had confirmed that an aero club can utterly ruin the flying school that's associated with them.
We've seen this all before.
My suggestion to any other training provider is to stay well clear of HAC as they will only cause you pain while the current commitee is in charge. A more horrid self important bunch of -ancient- attention seekers you could not meet. This I'm told reliably that this was not always the case and that the club was interested in promoting flying training. Now it's just a bunch of mainly old folks that want to have a place to sit, drink tea and talk about how they can tell the professionals how to do it. You have been warned.
For those of you that are not members of HAC or have not renewed your membership, hopefully another training provider will come and take up where HFS left off. Nothing is set in stone, it's highly possible that some or all money will be returned, have faith. If you do lose money then that has to be the saddest thing of all, there's nothing worse than seeing your hard earned money disappear, you have my and the not so vocal majorities thoughts.
For those of you that have airside passes with Highland Flying School on the top, your passes have been revoked at the request of the HAC commitee and you will have to pay the fee again. Happily if you hold a current CAA/JAR/EASA licence then you do not have to join HAC to get a new sponsor, contact the airport and they will arrange for you to re-register as an independent pilot. Why they had to revoke the existing passes, I do not know.
If you have existing student records, they will be retrievable from inside the HFS building you will need to contact HIAL to recover these, I urge you to avoid HAC as they will only give you further grief than you already have, unless the current commitee move aside that is and let reasonable people do the job of organising social activities.
Be patient, something good will come of this (so long as HAC can keep clear and actually let the professionals do what's needed.)
One final thing, for those HAC people that feel that the efforts of the HAC commitee have been justified by HFS going out of business, perhaps you'll spare a thought for those people that have been caused trouble by your actions. While it almost certainly isn't entirely HAC commitee members fault that HFS have had to close, you played no small part in it and should be held responsible for what you've done. No interest in promoting flying, just self publicising grumpy old men, like No Bearde Woman.
All that has been proven in this situation is that we have had confirmed that an aero club can utterly ruin the flying school that's associated with them.
We've seen this all before.
My suggestion to any other training provider is to stay well clear of HAC as they will only cause you pain while the current commitee is in charge. A more horrid self important bunch of -ancient- attention seekers you could not meet. This I'm told reliably that this was not always the case and that the club was interested in promoting flying training. Now it's just a bunch of mainly old folks that want to have a place to sit, drink tea and talk about how they can tell the professionals how to do it. You have been warned.
For those of you that are not members of HAC or have not renewed your membership, hopefully another training provider will come and take up where HFS left off. Nothing is set in stone, it's highly possible that some or all money will be returned, have faith. If you do lose money then that has to be the saddest thing of all, there's nothing worse than seeing your hard earned money disappear, you have my and the not so vocal majorities thoughts.
For those of you that have airside passes with Highland Flying School on the top, your passes have been revoked at the request of the HAC commitee and you will have to pay the fee again. Happily if you hold a current CAA/JAR/EASA licence then you do not have to join HAC to get a new sponsor, contact the airport and they will arrange for you to re-register as an independent pilot. Why they had to revoke the existing passes, I do not know.
If you have existing student records, they will be retrievable from inside the HFS building you will need to contact HIAL to recover these, I urge you to avoid HAC as they will only give you further grief than you already have, unless the current commitee move aside that is and let reasonable people do the job of organising social activities.
Be patient, something good will come of this (so long as HAC can keep clear and actually let the professionals do what's needed.)
One final thing, for those HAC people that feel that the efforts of the HAC commitee have been justified by HFS going out of business, perhaps you'll spare a thought for those people that have been caused trouble by your actions. While it almost certainly isn't entirely HAC commitee members fault that HFS have had to close, you played no small part in it and should be held responsible for what you've done. No interest in promoting flying, just self publicising grumpy old men, like No Bearde Woman.
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A point about student records
Students have no rights over their records, as such the CAA owns them but if you don't kill yourself within 5 years your school holds them and destroys them unless they sit in a box under a table forgotten about.
You have no right of access to them or the ability to demand them into your possession. By rights Pete is in the wrong for leaving them behind but I can understand why he did. I am sure if you phone Moray up the records will be in their possession next time an aircraft is over to be refuelled if you so wish.
As for the data protection act it is only valid for computer records not 13th copy photocopies.
The airport pass business is a pain in the for all concerned, by rights the airport should have cancelled the lot as soon as the sponsor did not exist. If they did offer to extend to HAC the ability to take over the sponsorship it would have been a very rare and probably illegal out break of common sense. But I can also understand why the club didn't want to take over the sponsorship to none members, I wouldn't.
And BTW I also agree no bearde women is a **** stirring and it paints HAC in very poor light with their constant knife twisting and gloating over the demise of HFS. I am sure their views are long held ones which only a very few of the club membership hold.
Students have no rights over their records, as such the CAA owns them but if you don't kill yourself within 5 years your school holds them and destroys them unless they sit in a box under a table forgotten about.
You have no right of access to them or the ability to demand them into your possession. By rights Pete is in the wrong for leaving them behind but I can understand why he did. I am sure if you phone Moray up the records will be in their possession next time an aircraft is over to be refuelled if you so wish.
As for the data protection act it is only valid for computer records not 13th copy photocopies.
The airport pass business is a pain in the for all concerned, by rights the airport should have cancelled the lot as soon as the sponsor did not exist. If they did offer to extend to HAC the ability to take over the sponsorship it would have been a very rare and probably illegal out break of common sense. But I can also understand why the club didn't want to take over the sponsorship to none members, I wouldn't.
And BTW I also agree no bearde women is a **** stirring and it paints HAC in very poor light with their constant knife twisting and gloating over the demise of HFS. I am sure their views are long held ones which only a very few of the club membership hold.
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Call me cynical but I find it hard to believe anyone is idiotic enough to pay for 100 hrs up front at any school or FTO. Even a fully integrated course is paid up in installments. It must have been a hell of a deal to sign up for, even then only a fool would. The 10 hr price in advance was excellent. Any less than that and sadly that may be why the school struggled, given the fuel price.
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The data protection act covers all information that can be used to identify an individual - written or otherwise. You're right though it doesn't cover photocopies but it doesn't admonish an organisation from distributing photocopies.
When I last checked you have freedom to access of your student records at any time and you in fact have to agree with the training provider that the details are correct before signing. As for ownership of the records I do not know, it seems sensible that the CAA would own them. It's good that Pete has left them behind, I'll give the CAA a call in the morning to find out how to recover them.
The sponsor for the passes still exists, it's just not trading but that's just a minor point, the airport should have been able to facilitate the replacement of passes quick and easy.
I suspect that the legalities are fairly grey, it's not a customs airport so it doesn't follow the same requirements for identifying yourself. Nonetheless knowing that it was at the request of the HAC commitee is irritating to say the least.
We all know who No Bearde Woman (Mr Blobby) is, why can't the members just get rid? flying in the north will be better once he's gone
When I last checked you have freedom to access of your student records at any time and you in fact have to agree with the training provider that the details are correct before signing. As for ownership of the records I do not know, it seems sensible that the CAA would own them. It's good that Pete has left them behind, I'll give the CAA a call in the morning to find out how to recover them.
The sponsor for the passes still exists, it's just not trading but that's just a minor point, the airport should have been able to facilitate the replacement of passes quick and easy.
I suspect that the legalities are fairly grey, it's not a customs airport so it doesn't follow the same requirements for identifying yourself. Nonetheless knowing that it was at the request of the HAC commitee is irritating to say the least.
We all know who No Bearde Woman (Mr Blobby) is, why can't the members just get rid? flying in the north will be better once he's gone
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Not sure the legal stuff you mention there is correct Jock, the data protection act only talks about information that you can use to identify yourself name, address, dob etc. it doesn't specify how it's stored. My sentiment doesn't change though, I'd be really worried if training returned to HAC, word has it that they've already asked Leading Edge to do the flight training. could it be that this (for some reason) was the plan since they started on HFS? Gone are the days of cheap training at Inverness if that's true
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lets get to reality
fact!! instructors wages bounced
they took your money when they had no intention of supplying the service you paid for !!
they were taking your money while insolvent to do a runner to Newcastle
there house is up for sale
there pa28 was taken by tayside aviation because they hadn't paid there maintenance bills
they took your money while insolvent
hfs are not in administration it is a farce to flush you all out and make off with your money
call 01463 715555
or read the inverness courier tomorrow on line after 1 pm
this is not unfortunate, but a calculated theft of your monies
they took your money when they had no intention of supplying the service you paid for !!
they were taking your money while insolvent to do a runner to Newcastle
there house is up for sale
there pa28 was taken by tayside aviation because they hadn't paid there maintenance bills
they took your money while insolvent
hfs are not in administration it is a farce to flush you all out and make off with your money
call 01463 715555
or read the inverness courier tomorrow on line after 1 pm
this is not unfortunate, but a calculated theft of your monies
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lets get one thing straight
i am not an old foggy
i am sad for the loss of those who have lost there money
some are young chaps who wanted a career as a pilot and did paper rounds and milk rounds to pay for it.
you might say that some can afford to lose it
but no one deserves to have it stolen from them
theft is theft is theft
i am sad for the loss of those who have lost there money
some are young chaps who wanted a career as a pilot and did paper rounds and milk rounds to pay for it.
you might say that some can afford to lose it
but no one deserves to have it stolen from them
theft is theft is theft
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There's quite a few years now since Peter Brookes sent me off solo in a 152 at Inverness, after surviving my many attempts at learning to land it, and I have flown many hours in his aeroplanes since then. I am very sorry to see the Highland Flying School fold, and wish Peter, and also Maggie who I do not know, all the best for the future.
I am sure right now having seen the business they have built up over many years fail they are feeling pretty bruised, and the obnoxious rants of the bearded idiot above, who could well be the same person who is feeding the Courier stories, might be a clue to at least some of the reasons why it went under, and the pressure they were subjected to. I do not believe any dishonesty will be revealed as the cause. I am sure like many people in similar circumstances with a business in trouble they struggled along as long as possible hoping to turn it around, until the mounting bills and problems became too much.
I was a member of the HAC until recent events. I will not be rejoining anytime soon as I find the role played by the club (or more accurately the committee)in this leaves a very bad taste.
I am sure right now having seen the business they have built up over many years fail they are feeling pretty bruised, and the obnoxious rants of the bearded idiot above, who could well be the same person who is feeding the Courier stories, might be a clue to at least some of the reasons why it went under, and the pressure they were subjected to. I do not believe any dishonesty will be revealed as the cause. I am sure like many people in similar circumstances with a business in trouble they struggled along as long as possible hoping to turn it around, until the mounting bills and problems became too much.
I was a member of the HAC until recent events. I will not be rejoining anytime soon as I find the role played by the club (or more accurately the committee)in this leaves a very bad taste.
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Where do we stand?
what about us people who dont care about the politics and just want to learn how to fly? can we continue our ppls with only our log books?what about exams we have already passed?must we have training records to back up our logs or do we need both? where do we stand?
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Well your student records have your surname name on it thats it and an Intial on it if you have a common name. It may contain a photocopy of your medical and your exam form.
There is additions to that like sales diary's for commercial use.
And the training records are the one of the first documents that get taken for evidence in the event of a student accident. If you do a search for the BAe systems instructor that got sued by someone's parents after the student flew into a hill. Its actually quite an important document for both instructor and student. And I was rubbish at keeping them up to date.
As for if it was planned, I doubt very much, I really don't see anyone seeing that the school was going to shut that quick.
As for how cheap it is? well I don't think 85 quid an hour will be seen again. 60 quid for fuel, 10 quid for engine replacement 10 quid maint and annuals, 5 quid insurance and landing card.
The cheapest I could see them doing at is £105 an hour solo and £120 dual. If its anything less than that they will get into the same trouble as the School.
We shall see how it pans out after all the dust settles. This time next year they will have gone back to the old moan of the blokes using the womens bog, widdling on the seat and using all the bog paper.
Arr pm in bound
The Data Protection Act covers any data which can be used to identify a living person. This includes names, birthday and anniversary dates, addresses, telephone numbers, fax numbers, email addresses and so on. It applies only to that data which is held, or intended to be held, on computers ('equipment operating automatically in response to instructions given for that purpose')
And the training records are the one of the first documents that get taken for evidence in the event of a student accident. If you do a search for the BAe systems instructor that got sued by someone's parents after the student flew into a hill. Its actually quite an important document for both instructor and student. And I was rubbish at keeping them up to date.
As for if it was planned, I doubt very much, I really don't see anyone seeing that the school was going to shut that quick.
As for how cheap it is? well I don't think 85 quid an hour will be seen again. 60 quid for fuel, 10 quid for engine replacement 10 quid maint and annuals, 5 quid insurance and landing card.
The cheapest I could see them doing at is £105 an hour solo and £120 dual. If its anything less than that they will get into the same trouble as the School.
We shall see how it pans out after all the dust settles. This time next year they will have gone back to the old moan of the blokes using the womens bog, widdling on the seat and using all the bog paper.
Arr pm in bound
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As it's well known, small business run onto rough ground very fast. They wrote a few cheques that didn't have funds to clear, what you're not talking about is what happened in the months prior to that and that can be almost exclusively attributed to No Bearde Woman (yes we know exactly who you are) and the rest of the HAC commitee.
The Brooks almost certainly mismanaged their finances, that is without question and it's understandable that people should be cross at them but they weren't malicious, they were genuinely nice people who made some crap decisions, unlike No Bearde Woman and the rest of his HAC commitee who are just mean spirited malcontents. It makes sense that they might need to sell their house to pay for their mistakes, it also makes sense that after 2 or more years of mistreatment from No Bearde Woman and the rest of the HAC commitee that they have decided that enough is enough and it's time to go where they don't sound weird.
I and a great many others doubt that it's the result of a great swindle, they're not fraudsters, the real (convicted) fraudster is now providing services and help to none other than HAC, I don't want my information being in the hands of convicted fraudsters, do you?
Lets wait and see what happens with the administrators. Administration after all requires an administrator, being insolvent is what happens almost immediately before. So far, nothing actually illegal has been done, unless you have actual evidence, which of course you don't as you would have given all of that to the Inverness Courier, we can all expect such a marvelous piece of investigative journalism as deserves a pulitzer prize.
Arr, I'm sure there will be further training soon and the local instructors and examiners will be able to help you out. Have patience the school has only been shut for 4 days
The Brooks almost certainly mismanaged their finances, that is without question and it's understandable that people should be cross at them but they weren't malicious, they were genuinely nice people who made some crap decisions, unlike No Bearde Woman and the rest of his HAC commitee who are just mean spirited malcontents. It makes sense that they might need to sell their house to pay for their mistakes, it also makes sense that after 2 or more years of mistreatment from No Bearde Woman and the rest of the HAC commitee that they have decided that enough is enough and it's time to go where they don't sound weird.
I and a great many others doubt that it's the result of a great swindle, they're not fraudsters, the real (convicted) fraudster is now providing services and help to none other than HAC, I don't want my information being in the hands of convicted fraudsters, do you?
Lets wait and see what happens with the administrators. Administration after all requires an administrator, being insolvent is what happens almost immediately before. So far, nothing actually illegal has been done, unless you have actual evidence, which of course you don't as you would have given all of that to the Inverness Courier, we can all expect such a marvelous piece of investigative journalism as deserves a pulitzer prize.
Arr, I'm sure there will be further training soon and the local instructors and examiners will be able to help you out. Have patience the school has only been shut for 4 days
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aye i dont mind waiting til things get sorted but i dont fancy having to resit all my exams. what about the hours i have already done?can the caa accept logbooks alone as proof of hours done or do they need the training records too?
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Arr I don't know the exact details as I'm not an instructor, your logbook is a legal document (make sure it's signed). As far as we seem to know so far is that all your documents will still be in the HFS building, jock mentioned that the local PPL examiner will be the person in charge of what happens next to them. I'm sure he's getting alot of requests as this is typed hopefully there will be a way of administering the student records so that people can get all their exam certs and hours logged counting towards the rest of their ppl course which can be finished with another training provider.
Sit tight for a few more days and more actually useful information will become clear.
Jock, you're right I had a good read through the ICO website, it's hardly clear but sadly I'm not protected by Data Protection. I just do not want HAC to get my student records, I don't trust what they might do. What can I do?
Sit tight for a few more days and more actually useful information will become clear.
Jock, you're right I had a good read through the ICO website, it's hardly clear but sadly I'm not protected by Data Protection. I just do not want HAC to get my student records, I don't trust what they might do. What can I do?