Type Rating - which type, where, why pay etc?

[stir crazy]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

Agreed

By-pass the now obsurd selection process for `no jet time wanabees` divised by non flying `power-less` HR office workers and deal directly with the real decision makers - the airline accountants.

I did 15 months ago and now am 1100 hours ahead of my mate who is went the instructor route who is now totally broke, demoralised and curently looking out of the aero club window waiting for the wind to drop!

[scroggs]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

Why do I get the impression that there are a lot of under-employed - and possibly related - pilots out there today with nothing better to do than perpetuate a wind-up?

Waiting for the bites...

Scroggs

[cavokkid]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

Do you include yourself in that list my friend?

[stir crazy]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

I am just speechless my modest posting has remained on this `quite excellent` and informative web site for more than 10 minuites.

I am however serious in what i am saying. 2 years of applications got me nowhere, - rightly or wrongly -, but as soon as i got my wallet out (or more accuratly my brothers wallet) my feet did not touch the ground. Now I paid for my qualification i cant get out of flying this jet. My airline wont even give me time off for a holiday!!

Crazy business.

Thanks for your wisdom and look forward to meting you soon Mr. Scroggs.

[reality check]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

Scroggs, no wind-up, I mean it.

I've written books on this industry.........cheque books!

Another 40 grand? the cost of a nice car! so what?

If you got it then spend it and get on!

[A320rider]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

so what???

...type rating and 30'000 euro to fly 200 hours jet.
another 60'000 euro after your CPL to find yourself unemployed, duh?

type rating is a minimum, consider 2-3 type rating and at least 500h jet to apply.

0 hour, no license, this is what you really need to go to BA.

[ATP_Al]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

Nobody goes into this game to fly a turbo prop or other such junk!

You sure about that? Not everyone gets into this business to fly jets. And not everyone who does is so pathetically desparate to do it that they'd fork out another £40k with no guarantees and forego the satisfaction of actually earning their dream job.

Some people eh?

[dboy]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

It is not about "should i pay or not". I'm prepared to pay 30.000eur if the company can give me a contract. But paying before you have a job offer sounds very risky to me.

best regards

[The Yank]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

EVERYBODY that pays for a TR is reducing the T&C's of the aviation Industry, including future earning potential. Instructing might be a road to the poor house (I should know) but you are hurting yourself (and me) in the long run…

Don’t get me wrong I have many friends that have paid for there type, and I do not look down on anyone who does. I know how demoralizing it is to be rejected year after year but at the end of the day you are playing right into the bean counters hands.

Just my 2 cents

[B200Drvr]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

RealityCheck,
Your comment regarding "Turbo props and other such junk" is what makes some of you guys such a joke!! Do you really think every pilot in the world wants to be an airline pilot. Get over your airline ego!!!

[markflyer6580]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

I'll second that B200DRVR I would love to fly turboprops first, prerf till I get a command!

[jondc9]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

to type rate or not to type rate, that is the question...whether it is nobler in the pocket book to suffer the slings and arrows (aero's :-) ) of one's fellows...

I was poor and I went the instructor route...eventually made it to 737 captain for a major airline. Am now grounded due to injury getting about half pay.

IF I WAS rich and were to do things from the start all over again:

I would 1.

buy and read: stick and rudder
fly the wing
handling the big jets

get all my pilot certificates in smaller cheaper planes, saving that money for the big stuff. I would get my ATP in a Citation. You get the type too.

Then you can get on one of those fractional ownership net jet things and build some time up. I flew the 737 and didn't think it was that great a plane.

Why not go on and get a type in something that is flown by the airline YOU want to work for.

rich buy type rating(s) realistic...do it the hard way like me. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? I think turboprops stink! (having flown: handley page MK1 Jetstream, MU2, Metroliner )


jon

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

reality check,

If you are serious what a load of rubbish! I cannot believe how narrow minded you are, how the hell to you know what people want to achieve with their flying careers? I know plenty of people of have taken the traditional route, and obtained jobs within the airline industry and have not spent a penny on a type rating. Grow up.

Sorry Scroggs, was aware the search function was not working.

[High Wing Drifter]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

It is difficult to disagree with the notion that if you have the money that you should use it to your advantage. How you use it is another matter. On the face of it buying a type rating should give you a leg up. Isn't a speculative (as that is what it amounts to) type rating without multi-crew hours a potential waste of time and money?

If you do a type rating isn't there a risk that you are more unemployable, wouldn't an airline prefer you to do a type rating at their preferred establishment(s)? As a parcially zero houred bod, wouldn't you still remain an totally unknown qualtity?

As a practically zero houred fATPL, what if you do a type rating and it then takes six-nine months to find a job, pass the interview, pass the sim check and get out of the hold pool? Your type rating requires a renewal before 3 months is up. LASORS is a little ambiguous on the situation if you don't do 10 route sectors or 1 route sector with an examiner and the proficiency check within the first 3 months. Do the type rating courses provide a 1 route sector and proficiency check service if you don't yet have an employer to other take care of these matters?

I suppose you have shown you can pass, but it doesn't seem like rocket science so that aspect is potentially nugetory.

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

Reality check - perhaps tis your attitude that precludes you from getting a position without buying your way into it. On a level playing field I'd venture to suggest you'd be well down the bottom of the pile with an attitude like the one you're displaying here! There's nought wrong with turboprops or their operators. Some of the best pairs of hands around are trolling around in the crappy weather.

Scroggs - I see where you're coming from....... all seem to have a very few number of postings eh? Hehe!

[scroggs]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

I assume that the vast majority of wannabes wish to fly in order to earn a living. It seems perverse to me to spend so much on your training that the repayments on the inevitable loans eat up most of what you will eventually earn. Add to that the fact that the further up the ladder you pay to fly, the further down the line it will be before you receive a salary - and, because your 'employer' sees people willing to pay to fly, he will feel that he can pay fewer people less money, so your earning capacity is reduced in the long term. Surely this is self-defeating?

I do not have a problem with the training industry offering type-ratings. There are many reasons why people and organisations wish to contract others to provide that kind of training. Obtaining qualifications speculatively is not immoral - if it were, what future would there be for Adult Education Colleges, or The Open University? What I do have a problem with is the creeping increase in the number of hours that people are prepared to pay for. Where does it end? The logical conclusion is that BA 747 pilots will be people who earn their living elsewhere and pay BA for the privilege of flying. Ridiculous? Maybe - but the idea that FOs on some lo-cost airlines would be effectively unpaid for the first 18 months of their career would have been laughable only a few years ago. And this is at a time when jobs are there a-plenty!

While I have little truck with those who spend their time ranting incoherently about 'scabs' and using other emotive or profane terms for those who purchase type ratings with line training, I am distinctly uncomfortable about the way this is going. I suspect that current employment legislation is inadequate to protect us from the ramifications of this trend, and that it will take strong representation to Government by pilots' unions to prevent it spreading further.

However, in the meantime I am aware that buying SSTRs plus line training is legal and, for some, may be worthwhile. If you can afford to go this route, be careful you go with reputable organisations. That's about the limit of the advice I will offer; after all, you can obviously afford to do the research yourself - or pay someone to do it for you!

Scroggs

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

Indeed - and Its a safe bet that these will be amongst the primary whingers come 5 years time when their own terms and conditions are being erroded! It's already happening in FR.....

[markflyer6580]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

I assume that the vast majority of wannabes wish to fly in order to earn a living.

If that is the case they should try something else where you can earn a lot more and work better hours
In this profession,it should be for the love of flying,the earnings are of no concern to me,as long as I can pay my bills,say £12-15k a year should suffice,all I want to do is go flying every day and not pay for it or have to work a part time job at the same time.
As Scroggs has said paying off the debt is the problem hence the requirement for higher pay,unfortunately f/o pay will not be enough to pay most peoples debts let alone an extra £25k from a type rating.
Only those with more money than sense can afford to do the rating and work for free,I reckon that will be approx 1-5% of all wannabes.
I think we all know that everyone would do it if they where in that position,but most of us are skint!
If you are just in it for the money,bugger off and leave the flying for the people who want to fly

[scroggs]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

Oh, FFS, this is a profession not a vocation! If you wish to work for a pittance, go and join a charity. If you wish to fly for love, stay with your flying club. One of the reasons I left the RAF was to join an organisation that would recognise my professional abilities and pay me a salary that reflected that recognition. I do not do it for love. I do enjoy flying, but it is the way I pay for my house, car, food, entertainment, children etc. I, and the vast majority of my colleagues, believe we are worth at least what we are currently paid, and we can justify considerably more.

Remember, you fly because your employer needs you to generate his profit. The less he pays you, the more profit he makes on your back. He does not employ you because you love flying.

Scroggs

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Re: Type ratings - yes or no?

was looking for a posting placed by FFS then - how slow am I???