Type Rating - which type, where, why pay etc?
 

This is from a reply I posted in R&N, but it is more relevant here. Hope it helps.

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For anyone who is interested, in my time as a trainer, I have found the following to be generally true.

Some people will fail the sim check. This is usually down to lack of currency in general flying practice, or lack of I/F proficiency. It can usually be remedied by spending some time in a jet-type sim doing some hard IFR. If you are going for a turboprop sim check, the jet sim is a good idea because most sim checks seem to be done on jet sims. BTW, you CANNOT overprepare for a sim check when it comes to knowing ATC procedure, Rules of the Air, etc. Simple little things like the appropriate cruising level for a particular altitude mess a lot of folk up.

Some fail the ARB. This is nearly unheard of, especially if CBT is being used. Still, if you know you are prone to exam problems, try and get the books early and in particular learn ALL the limitations off by heart, ESPECIALLY engine limitations.

Some fail the type training in the sim. This is usually a judgement call on the part of the training dept. Anyone can be taught to do anything, given enough time and money. However, training departments have very finite training budgets, so if they think you will not meet the required standard in the allowable time frame, you will probably be chopped. Occasionally people will be allowed a few extra hours in the sim if it is thought that they are "nearly there". This of course depends on sim bookings, and may not be possible on a heavily-used sim. Some training depts may allow you to continue if you pay for the additional training, but it's rare. The only course of action available to you is to stay focused and calm. Try not to let the pressures of the situation get to you... I realise that is nearly impossible to do, but try anyway. I have seen several colleagues fail sim courses over the years, usually because once they realised that things were not going well, they let the pressures of worrying about their continued career and employment get to them, and their performance deteriorated as a result. In a sense, the failed themselves. I say that with no pride at all, it is a horrible thing to experience, or to watch from the other seat. To reiterate... try and stay focused and calm, keep studying, practice IF on your computer or whatever, don't spend time in the bar. It's only for a few days!

Once you are into line training, the worst is most definitely behind you. As I mentioned earlier, what we look for in line training is your ability to fly safely and accurately in a normal IFR environment. You will normally have an autopilot to help you and no deliberate failures. The abilities you need are good situational awareness, good CRM, and good decision-making. As line training is revenue flying, it is the phase of training where the most time can be allowed to reach the required standard. People who get chopped here are normally either up against a hostile trainer (not that common these days), or are having major problems with the areas mentioned above. Typical symptoms include inability to plan descents properly, poor execution of SIDs or STARs, poor fuel planning, consistently bad landings, poor situational awareness, poor procedural knowledge, poor aircraft knowledge. In any event, this is the phase where the most leeway is usually allowed... I only ever failed people who were a very, very long way from reaching the standard, and who were showing no signs of improvement. The remedy is to keep studying, run the flights through in your mind and identify all the areas causing you trouble, and tell your trainer exactly what you are having trouble with. Concentrate on getting those bits right. Make it abundantly clear that you are working hard and are going for it.

If you are having trouble, TELL YOUR TRAINER. Help them to help you.

Maxfli is absolutely right... a failure is a reflection on the training dept as well as the candidate. It is also a failure on the part of the selection board. Some training depts are enlightened and see it that way, some don't. And finally, it is very, very expensive for a company to fail someone in line training.

I hope that helps some of you who are soon to start courses.

Another tip is to clear your life for the entire period of your sim training and groundschool. If you allow yourself to get bogged down in domestic stuff or distracted with things that aren't THAT important, you will not do so well in the sim.
If you think it would be better for you to be away from home for the duration, in a hotel or B+B, then book it.
You may think it is not a problem, you won't let it become a distraction, but people do and then their performance is not so good.
You really need to commit yourself 110%.

Thanks Raw Data,

All insights like yours, and www's essay on psychometric testing, are very useful, as they give us a picture of 'where the questioner/interviewer/training Captain, is coming from.
i.e; Do they expect us to be accurate to one decimal place; Do they want us to remember all the checklists perfectly from day one; or Do they want to know if we can tell good jokes, and have a firm handshake ?.

I sweated blood on my IR because towards the end of the test, the entire episode of leaving my previous job, starting a business, saving up the money for the CAP 509, convincing my wife, paying the mortgage etc, etc built up in my mind. I started worrying about all this, and what I would do if I failed the IR, and managed to b*gger up the NDB Hold.

Nailed it on the re-take thank goodness !

Thanks again for the info.

[This message has been edited by Uplinker (edited 02 December 1999).]

Raw Data
What are your chance to find an another job
when you have been chopped in your line training.

Jofly, see what has been said in the thread "Life after the Chop" over on Rumours and News. It can be done, but it is difficult. Perseverance is the key!

Who Still Offers Type Ratings
 

Hi all,

I know there has been a lot of threads about the value of type ratings...should you do one or not, what employers expect etc.

I had heard that a number of places that used to offer them have stopped - and only those employed by an airline would have access to do one.

How true is this?
Anyone know of a provider that still offers a type rating to Joe Public?

All replies gratefully received...even the sarky ones!

:)

There is a list of all companies that offer
type ratings at the bottom of:
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/s...provedftos.pdf

Whether they offer them to Joe Public or not I don't know but I suspect that money talks.

I have been told that an average cost of a Turbo prop type rating is ~£10k. This would appear to be a lot for what probably amounts to a few hours in a sim. I would be interested if anyone knows different.

Type ratings.....
 

Ok, my fellow Ppruners, I know the basics, but I'd like a bit more info namely on:

- Bit more detail on what the actually are
- Whats involved
- How much does it cost
- How long does it take, and
- Where you go about doing them.

Thanks you crazy bunch.

Hello Winkie...

In a nutshell

1. 2-4 weeks of training including classroom and sim.
2. 20-40 hours of simulator training.
3.Between 5000 USD to 50000 USD depending on the type and place where you do the training.
USA seems to be by far the most affordable.
4. Flightsafety, Aeroservice, PanAm, STI,HPA to name a few schools in US are in business.
Also quite a few operators will offer their aircraft, such as Citation, Short or Lears for training where the typerating is obtained in the airplane and not in Simulator.

A type course could be as follows:

Days 1-9 Classroom training
Days 9-13 Simulator training
Day 13 Oral Examination
Day 14 Simulator check
And if required Day 15 aircraft check... Three bounces.

JJ

Type ratings
 

I'm worried. I'm going to fly for a living and of that there is no doubt. But there seems to be a lot of negativaty as far as jobs are concernced. I'm sure a lot of Wannabes share the same thoughts.

So..I'm thinking of getting a type rating after I graduate from OATS. I know this means I'm going to have part with a **** load of cash, but if it boosts my chances of getting a job massivly, then why not? I can't imagine doing any other Job in the world, I'm too familiar of reading how desparate some Wannabes become it's quite worrying.

How much is a type rating for a 737?
Where can I do such a course?
Do people think I'm stupid for even contemplating this? (rhetorical question).

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Jesus, this bogy's all over me...........

[This message has been edited by bottle2throttle (edited 03 April 2001).]

type rating £ for a 737 I have no idea....but do you really want to do that? It still wont gaurantee you a job.

Why not add an FI rating?

My advise -others may disagree - is forget the typr rating and spend money building more hours, preferably multi time (in the States where it's cheap!). An employer will think much better of you with more than the minimum hours and valuable multi-time, as any decent employer will put you through a typr-rating program themselves so that thay can also tach you the company SOP's at the same time. Don't dispair from other Wannabes - the job is out there if you want it enough!

There are jobs around, you just cannot afford to be choosy and when you do get that first interview, make sure you nail it!

Everyone I asked about type ratings said that it is worth little or nothing without any time on type! I agree with seadog, get more hours before a type rating. I have a mate who got nowhere post ab-initio, got 50 more hours wrote back and was offered an interview. A very small difference in the grand scheme of things.

Good luck!

Type Rating costs
 

Does anyone know how much a Gulfstream III type rating would cost?
And, where you can do it?

This would be a first jet rating for a new CPL with no previous jet time.

Call Flight Safety or Gulfstream. Previous experience is not essential.

You can also try SimuFlite, they're the leading biz jet training org.
www.simuflite.com

Type rating - Paying for it. Where, who, and why?
 

Hi all,

Would really appreciate it if someone can let me know, where in Europe, Ireland or the UK if possible, you can do a B737 (-200 or -800) and Airbus (A320)type rating?

Obviously would only consider doing one of them in a good few years when I hope to have all the necessary hrs,liscenses, etc.

How much would each cost, £20000+ ? What are the requirements to such ratings, etc? How long is each course?

Iam just trying to get an overall picture of how much money is going to be needed to do all flight training, as well as a possible type rating, if I am not succesful with any sponsorship.

Any info about them would be really appreciated. BTW I have looked at older posts about it, and just hoping for any up to date info now.

Thanks,
All the best,

Turbsy
Ireland

[This message has been edited by Turbsy (edited 16 June 2001).]

Turbsy,

Don't do it ...... ask Hamrah & WWW about it. At the seminars the last week it was pointed out that these ratings will not give you an advantage when applying. No matter whether or not you've got the rating the airline will still have to put you through their own training. Another thing is that shoudl you put yourself through the ATPL training the likelyhood of you flying the aircraft your rated on in your first job is ...... well not good, particulary if its a jet. Don't set your sights on a jet job as your first job. I'm not saying that you'll never get a jet job as your first job but .....

If you do a type rating it could work out for you but it is a huge gamble to take. The other question is after you've forked out xxxxxx k for your frozen ATPL will you want to shell out another 20k on a type rating.

I don't want to put a downer on it but suggest you look into it in more detail and have a chat with one of the mods.

Good luck

Autofly

Thanks for that autofly,

Iam asking about that because all I see advertised is ATPL, 500hrs+, Type rated on this and that, etc, etc.

I really would like to get a job as a pilot in Ryanair, and was kinding of thinkin well if I am type rated in a B737 that could be a huge advantage. The cost is without doubt very large, but your right, even then I stil mightn't get into the airline.

Does anyone know what the trend seems to be with most pilots now in Ryanair, e.g did most of them become flying instructors first to build up the hrs and then they applied to the company?

Cheers,

Turbsy

GECAT offers type ratings for 737 and A320s for self-sponsored pilots at their Gatwick training centre. Cost is GBP 13,000 + you have to spend another 1500-3000 for the base training --- which for pilots with less than 1500 hours is 6 T&Gs (I think).