Type Rating - which type, where, why pay etc?

[Preston Watson]

Life is a gamble and taking a type rating is a big gamble without a secure job offer and knowing what type. If you got yourself a 737 rating, then what model who you go for? 737-200 is different from a 6-700NG and an 8-900NG rating (as I believe), so you take a gamble with that as well. If I were to go for a rating I'd think A320/B737 are the best bets and at an outside B757, for Europe.

I agree with the 'clan' that we shouldn't pay for type ratings, I can't even if I wanted to. It is clear to me that it helps the industry jepordise others in doing so. You've made your choice though, and sad to say but in this world people mainly care about themself, so good luck in your gamble.

Buzzzzz.....

[HappyPilot]

If I am to go for a TR based on me having 300 hours, a FAA and JAA CPL/ME/IR and ATPL(f) which manufacturer should I go for and which model?

Why cant people just answer the ******* question? Some people on these forums use pprune as a means of letting out stored anger that has been built up over a long time. If anybody can please help answer Stephen's question, I'm sure he'll appreciate it. If your mouth is not part of the solution keep it shut.
HP

[silverknapper]

There was more than one question you jumped up

[Number Cruncher]

If you can afford it go and get a type rating. If you can go a little further, try and get some hours on type. Its do that or sit around like all the other 250 hour guys waiting for the phone to ring. It probably won’t.

Maybe you could get an instructor’s rating. Good idea but unlikely to make you much more employable than you are now. Go ask my instructor who’s not had a sniff after 4 years and 3,000 hours in a single. Or go ask the other instructor I know who after 2 years buzzing about in a Piper has bought a 737 TR and is now employed by a charter airline on the line.

Ultimately the choice is yours. You make your own luck to a large extent in this life. People will always be quick to slate those who buy ratings. They are usually those who cannot afford them, or those who are already airline pilots complaining of their degrading T&C’s, so either way you can’t win with these people.

Either way, whether you get taken on by an airline and have your typed paid for, they will re-coup their money somehow or other, probably via a reduced salary, so why not just go out there, get a type and earn a normal salary straight of.

As for what type, well, its got to be the 737 or the A320 series.

Good luck with whatever way you go.

[TolTol]

OMG I am so bloody confused as to what all these people that say "DONT BUY A TYPE RATING" are talking about. What other option is there??? Sit on our arse at home and wait for the industry to change?

Please give me a list of airlines that will pay for my type rating. Fancy asking Ryanair to pay for your type rating! Ha.

[Skunkworks]

Please give me a list of airlines that will pay for my type rating.

Why don't YOU give me a list of all the small cargo operators, taxi companies, parachuting clubs and Flight schools that you have applied to!?

Oh, THAT many...

[TolTol]

Why don't YOU give me a list of all the small cargo operators, taxi companies, parachuting clubs and Flight schools that you have applied to!?

How? I'm not qualified yet so what are you talking about?! Listen, I'm not geeky enough to get into an argument on a internet forum. But I, like many others want a "career" in a modern airline, that’s why I'm forking out 1000's on training, not to get a job with a parachuting or flight school. I've never even considered "small cargo operators or taxi companies". I just know that every newly qualified pilot that I know are paying for their own type rating, it sucks but that’s the way it is if you want that right-hand seat bad enough.

P.S. I'm not literally looking for a list of airlines that pay for the type rating, I'm just highlighting the fact that you have no other option when everybody else is paying for their type rating.

[Funkie]

TolTol,

I think you have missed the point. – Oh, and I’m not qualified either, but who said that you have to wait until you’ve received the blue book before you can contact airlines?

Nobody, and I mean nobody can go from Zero to Hero…. I think too many “wannabes” forget this.

This is not a slagging match, it is supposed to be an informed discussion about the pros and cons for buying a type rating.

Comments such as “I just know that every newly qualified pilot that I know are paying for their own type rating, it sucks but that’s the way it is if you want that right-hand seat bad enough.” does not help. Why not do a little back ground work of your own. You’re not a lemming are you? So why jump with the rest?

You do have an option. Don’t pay. Find an airline that may well bond you for a length of time, or at least one that gives you some degree of respect.

Rgds.

[TolTol]

Hi Funkie,

This is not a slagging match, it is supposed to be an informed discussion about the pros and cons for buying a type rating

I agree, but I didn't like skunk's attitude.

You’re not a lemming are you? So why jump with the rest?

No mate, are you?

Why not do a little back ground work of your own

I have, thats why I decided to get a degree after being adviced by current pilots that was the best thing to do, so I think that counts as doing background work.

You do have an option. Don’t pay. Find an airline that may well bond you for a length of time, or at least one that gives you some degree of respect

Okay I'll do a google on it right now!

[sjm]

So does this all apply to the guys that do the ctc scheme?

My understanding is that they all work for nothing for six months before going on to a salary with the sponsor airline, this has been going on for years now.

Lifes not fair Its only rich kids who get to pay for type ratings is complete crap!! A few guys I know have saved very hard and all have hours on small turbo props before doing type ratings, have they not done their apprenticeship.

Quote from the biggest dash8-400 operator in the country " we have loads of guys with your exp on file" two weeks later they offer jobs to un-sim checked 250hr guys.

Same with another dash 8 operator, who put 250hrs guys on jets without sim ride over guys already on dash 8 waiting for upgrades to jet.

So the airlines will never play fair, its a business. they will try to claw back as much from a work force as possible one way or the other, be it reduced salaries, heavier rosters, inforced base changes etc..

Bmi baby £3000 up front £300 less a month if untype rated
Bmi Reg £2000 " £200 less " "
Jet2 £20000 " paid back less interest.
Fr £28000 " Peanuts for about nine months

All airlines, you pay if you want to have freedom to work where and for whoever and break a bond(fair in my view).

No matter how you spin it, do/dont pay for a type rating, you pay somewhere.

And a final note, those in a job if you dont like your t and c's then leave or strike over it as a last result, if its that bad, I some how doubt it though.

[Megaton]

No bond of any kind with BA. And a TR without hrs is useless but it does show a prospective employer that you have the ability to pass a TR. Make no mistake, the TR is harder than the IR and you will be expected to complete the rating in the 10 or so sim sessions allocated. So ask yourself how you coped with the IR. Was i difficult for you? If so, you may struggle with the TR.

[scameron77]

What is it says in the TV ad?

"Nothing is certain but death and taxes. Of the two, taxes happen annually" - Joel Fox

I do believe as SJM pointed out, if you don't pay for it here you'll pay for it there.

Being bonded doesn't guarantee you'll serve out your time with that company but if you are released for whatever reason I suspect you aren't held accountable for the pro-rata payment of a TR.

Mr Funk-soul-meister hello, hope you are well? Yes I did start a post on converting to JAA and I started this one on TR's to do my research well in advance of making a decision, just thinking ahead. I'm a good 4 months away from being in a position to make these choices, got some Garmin 1000 time to log first.

Happypilot has hit the nail on the head, so often (and I hold my hands up to doing this myself during the first six months of joining PPRuNe) threads degenerate into petty name calling rather than cold hard facts and tangeable experiences useful to the people lower on the ladder. I have tried to ask pertinent questions in threads that will aid others in future (if they know how to use the search function).

Preston, Number Cruncher, thank you both, for trying to bring the thread back onto information and facts rather than personal attacks directed at me for lets see . . . what have I been called so far . . . 'a sellout', 'lazy', 'bloody lazy', and have 'stars in my eyes'.

All I asked about was the feasibility and prospects for employment, not the ethics, of paying for a TR.

[20driver]

I say play the cards you are dealt - life is not fair and there is no use whinging about it.
If you have the cash or the means - buy the TR. Ignore the rumbling idiots on this site. A great deal of it is shared misery - I suffered through years of mac and cheese instructing etc - so should you. (Bet you have theses guys saying this don't or won’t admit to their getting a big leg up somewhere through luck, or acquaintance.)

If all these guys - who know what is good for you - say you are responsible for eroding T&C's - BOLLOCKS - They have the power to stop it. You go on a no paid TR strike how does that impact the airlines??? They go to their employers and say - start a bonded training scheme or we walk - Come on guys - do it for the good of the industry - you have the power. If your cojones are anywhere as big as your mouths you can do it.

You've got the cash or the means - from the sound of you you've earned it - so spend it how you like. Just remember - no guarantees - roll the dice and don't moan if you are the only type rated shelf stocker at Tesco's.
Remember - many airlines and the military hired zero hours and trained them with excellent results. The idea you need to do a bunch of serf time is just a way to subsidize flight schools etc. Search through these threads and there are many who mentioned getting hired with your time - it's luck, timing and the direction of the industry. (Which is up)

I’d suggest you really work at talking to people in the industry – maybe even get an airport job just to be on the inside of the fence. Your choice is the 737 or the 320 series. So see what company you’d like to work for – talk to people inside and go that way.

It’s all about what you want and you are prepared to do.
As Henry Ford said – “never complain and never explain”

PS - Personally - If I was single the idea if bashing around Africa or something like that would be fun. You never get a chance to do that kind of thing again.

To be a little more constructive

I would find out who you\'d like to work for - really learn everything you can about the company - stock - officers - routes plans - etc It is not that hard to figure out who will need bodies.
There is a lot of info out there about aircraft orders - leases etc

Then contact the CP or some of the training pilots -and ask them what they think of the various TRTO\'s. Work in ground ops - do everything to show you are ready to commit to working hard for them.

The key is to get to talk to people - if you have really done your homework and have a good attitude is shows and doors will open. That lets you turn the attitude of the LHS prima donna\'s posting here in your favor.

[Aletto]

Type Rating?

hi all
i've have a jar cpl\ir atpl frozen and i would like to get a type rating on airbus 320 family or b 737. Anyone knows some airline companies in europe where can i do the type rating?

[south coast]

sorry on 2 points:

1, this topic has been covered if once, a million times!

2, start at the bottom and work your way up to a big plane, stop trying to jump the queue by paying for a rating, you are devaluing yourself, as also covered, probably in conjunction with the above mentioned topic you asked about.

why is it that new pilots in the uk all think they should start off on an airbus or boeing?

i have never come across such an ethos in flying before...

[ali1]

Hi there,

I agree, I waited 2.5 years for a job and was tempted at times to pay for a type rating. I got an instructors rating and worked as an instructor for 6 months. I learned a hell of alot and i think it held me in good stead for subsequent interview. I've now just done base check with my airline and I've not had to pay up front for the rating.

Hang in there try not to fork out lots of money and you'll get a job, the industry is on the up!!!

Ali1

P.S A few guys on my course who had paid for a rating had to do the whole thing again!!!

[portsharbourflyer]

ali and south coast, please rememeber that everyones situation is different.

For alot of people the pay cut to full time instructing is more than the price of a type rating with regard to lost earnings in a year. Also I have known alot of instructors who have still ended up paying for a type rating after instructing for several years.

So it really isn't surprising that people view paying for a rating as a way ahead.

Not an ideal situation but that is the way the industry has turned.

[Sean H]

so, the case is if i get a cpl/ir/mcc/meir frozen atpl some torbo prop airlines might hire me or do i need a type rating for small carriers, Example, do you need a type rating to fly a britten norman islander , like bringing tourists to islands or atr 42 or watever?

[portsharbourflyer]

A turbine islander needs a type rating, a piston islander would be covered by a MEP class rating. But as the islander is a single crew aircraft you will need 700 hours total time to operate under as a single pilot ifr on public transport operations.

Air Arran now run a sstr scheme for the ATR, so yes even turbo prop operators are branching into the sstr route.

[PROFE_AVIATOR]

Type Rating?

Hi all

Which type rating can give you the opportunity to find a job?
B737 or A320?