CAA/JAA Licence Admin Problems (Applications, Paperwork, etc)
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Or if you are concerned with original docs being sent by post, try and get a cheap fare go to the CAA in LGW yourself...I believe once you go before 12 noon and give all your docs in, they will have the licence for you by the end of the day.
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CAA ATPL(f) v JAA licence
I would be grateful of some guidance from anyone who can assist
I have a CAA CPL (ATPL exam credits) with Perf E. I have also passed the JAR Performance exam at ATPL level. I'm doing the MCC in the near future, followed hopefully thereafter by a MPA Type Rating.
Q.1 Is there a need to convert my CAA CPL to a JAR CPL
Q.2 Am I right in saying that I can attach the JAR performance exam credit to my national licence
Q.3 Assuming (again) that I get 500hrs MPA can I apply for a JAR ATPL with CAA ATPL exam credits
Many thanks
I have a CAA CPL (ATPL exam credits) with Perf E. I have also passed the JAR Performance exam at ATPL level. I'm doing the MCC in the near future, followed hopefully thereafter by a MPA Type Rating.
Q.1 Is there a need to convert my CAA CPL to a JAR CPL
Q.2 Am I right in saying that I can attach the JAR performance exam credit to my national licence
Q.3 Assuming (again) that I get 500hrs MPA can I apply for a JAR ATPL with CAA ATPL exam credits
Many thanks
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Behind me!?!
Hi Boddy; I am terribly and truly sorry, but your question is impossible to answer. Would probably be a lot easier if you stated which CAA you're talking about, there are A LOT of them, sadly... I see that some have answered your question assuming it's the UK CAA, as if it were THE one and only aviation authority on the face of the earth 
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I'm a bit concerned about sending them through the post since I live outside the UK.
It has to be said as stated before - there is a guidance sheet attached which answers your questions - so next time I suggest you read ALL the paperwork before asking questions...:
•Passport or Birth Certificate only. Photocopies are acceptable provided that the relevant information is clearly presented and certified by the Head of Training (or authorised signatory) of the approved training provider.
• Existing holders of UK Professional Flight Crew Licence or holders of another JAR-FCL Pilot’s Licence can ignore this requirement.
• Existing holders of UK Professional Flight Crew Licence or holders of another JAR-FCL Pilot’s Licence can ignore this requirement.
Computerised logbooks are acceptable, provided that these are submitted in hard copy paper format, and contain the relevant
information (as specified in the Air Navigation Order Article 28) with each page certified as true and signed by the applicant.
information (as specified in the Air Navigation Order Article 28) with each page certified as true and signed by the applicant.
Valid UK JAR-FCL Class One Medical Certificate. Holders of a JAR-FCL Class One Medical Certificate issued by another JAA Member State should either contact the CAA Aeromedical Centre at Gatwick or refer to the CAA website www.caa.co.uk for details on acceptability and mutual recognition.
• Validity must be sufficient to cover the anticipated licence
• Validity must be sufficient to cover the anticipated licence
Last edited by BigGrecian; 13th Sep 2006 at 03:27. Reason: Medical addition
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1) Not really, it wont stop you getting employed by a UK operator, although they may ask you to convert to JAR CPL. If so, it just a paperwork exercise, and a fee...of course. Having JAR CPL may make you more employable in other JAA states though.
2) Of course. You have to, as there is no Perf A exams anymore.
3) UK CPL (A)/IR holders who have passed UK ATPL (A) theory examinations, and have 500 hours flying experience in multi-pilot operations will be credited the JAR-FCL ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examinations for the purpose of JAR-FCL ATPL(A) licence issue. This credit will remain valid for a period of 7 years from the most recent validity date of the IR (A).
2) Of course. You have to, as there is no Perf A exams anymore.
3) UK CPL (A)/IR holders who have passed UK ATPL (A) theory examinations, and have 500 hours flying experience in multi-pilot operations will be credited the JAR-FCL ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examinations for the purpose of JAR-FCL ATPL(A) licence issue. This credit will remain valid for a period of 7 years from the most recent validity date of the IR (A).
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Thats incorrect, they only issue ratings on same day.
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JAA Licence has failed
It never ceases to amaze me with regard to the problems faced by students training for their JAA licences.
Surely the idea of the JAA licences, especially the CPL/ATPL was so that any student of a fully compliant JAA member state could train in any one of those countries, get the JAA licence, and then work in any one of those said countries.
It doesn't seem very 'Joint' to me at all. I regularly see jobs advertised from UK airlines that ask for the JAA ATPL to have been issued in the UK, otherwise don't apply etc..
JAA just doesn't seem to be working, it has been years since this system started and it still seems to be that every JAA member state has it's own rules.
Tell me, what is the point of getting more and more countries to become JAA compliant, if the JAA licence issued from that country is worth Jack Shi* ??
WASTE OF MONEY !!!!!
Surely the idea of the JAA licences, especially the CPL/ATPL was so that any student of a fully compliant JAA member state could train in any one of those countries, get the JAA licence, and then work in any one of those said countries.
It doesn't seem very 'Joint' to me at all. I regularly see jobs advertised from UK airlines that ask for the JAA ATPL to have been issued in the UK, otherwise don't apply etc..
JAA just doesn't seem to be working, it has been years since this system started and it still seems to be that every JAA member state has it's own rules.
Tell me, what is the point of getting more and more countries to become JAA compliant, if the JAA licence issued from that country is worth Jack Shi* ??
WASTE OF MONEY !!!!!
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Firstly, if you've ever witnessed the way some of the training, (especially the theory exams) has been carried out in other states, you'd see why JAA isnt as hunky dorey as everyone would like. The JAA licence issued in other states are not worth Jack sh1t at all, why else is easy jet currently be employing lots of non UK, JAR licence holders. The reason the UK airlines sometimes request that a pilot should have a UK JAA licence (what they mean by this is, you'll need to convert a non UK to a UK JAA licecnce) is that believe it or not the UK CAA is easier to deal for the UK operator then other NAA's.......
JAR's after all are not law, and every JAA will interpret JAR in different ways. Once EASA comes into effect, that will be law, and JAA states will no longer be able to alter that in any way.
Am I wrong?
JAR's after all are not law, and every JAA will interpret JAR in different ways. Once EASA comes into effect, that will be law, and JAA states will no longer be able to alter that in any way.
Am I wrong?
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"Firstly, if you've ever witnessed the way some of the training, (especially the theory exams) has been carried out in other states, you'd see why JAA isnt as hunky dorey as everyone would like. The JAA licence issued in other states are not worth Jack sh1t at all, why else is easy jet currently be employing lots of non UK, JAR licence holders. The reason the UK airlines sometimes request that a pilot should have a UK JAA licence (what they mean by this is, you'll need to convert a non UK to a UK JAA licecnce) is that believe it or not the UK CAA is easier to deal for the UK operator then other NAA's......."
Congratulations on your posting, well that only took 7 hours for the first 'UK licence is in a completely different league than all other licences' post !!
I don't believe you in relation to training in other JAA member states. Do you seriously expect me to believe that all of the dutch pilots, spanish, italian etc etc, for all of the years before JAA were flying for professional european airlines with a licence which in your words was ' worth Jack Shi*' ??
I am sure that your ill informed posting will upset a lot of european training organisations. A JAA licence is a JAA licence. That was the reason for setting up the system in the first place. 'Harmonisation' they called it.
What I was trying to convey in my previous post was that it should be relatively easy for low experience Brit pilots to get jobs in europe with a JAA licence. After all, there are a lot of european pilots here, high time or otherwise because the UK pay more. But if you are a Brit struggling for your first commercial job then you should be able to take your new JAA EUROPEAN LICENCE, and work in those countries where pay is low but experience is available. After all, the national language of Air Traffic is English so you shouldn't really have a problem.
You hit the nail on the head about other NAA's in europe being difficult to deal with. My point was exactly this, why are they so difficult ? and if they are being this way with Brits, then perhaps its high time we did the same in the UK. Obviously if they are so difficult then the JAA system isn't working and in your words is worth Jack Shi* . Protection of the industry for British pilots who have spent thousands on flight training.
You may not like it but the truth hurts
Congratulations on your posting, well that only took 7 hours for the first 'UK licence is in a completely different league than all other licences' post !!I don't believe you in relation to training in other JAA member states. Do you seriously expect me to believe that all of the dutch pilots, spanish, italian etc etc, for all of the years before JAA were flying for professional european airlines with a licence which in your words was ' worth Jack Shi*' ??
I am sure that your ill informed posting will upset a lot of european training organisations. A JAA licence is a JAA licence. That was the reason for setting up the system in the first place. 'Harmonisation' they called it.
What I was trying to convey in my previous post was that it should be relatively easy for low experience Brit pilots to get jobs in europe with a JAA licence. After all, there are a lot of european pilots here, high time or otherwise because the UK pay more. But if you are a Brit struggling for your first commercial job then you should be able to take your new JAA EUROPEAN LICENCE, and work in those countries where pay is low but experience is available. After all, the national language of Air Traffic is English so you shouldn't really have a problem.
You hit the nail on the head about other NAA's in europe being difficult to deal with. My point was exactly this, why are they so difficult ? and if they are being this way with Brits, then perhaps its high time we did the same in the UK. Obviously if they are so difficult then the JAA system isn't working and in your words is worth Jack Shi* . Protection of the industry for British pilots who have spent thousands on flight training.
You may not like it but the truth hurts
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"Congratulations on your posting, well that only took 7 hours for the first 'UK licence is in a completely different league than all other licences' post !!"
People have lives mate, dont have to reply straight away to make a point.
"I don't believe you in relation to training in other JAA member states. Do you seriously expect me to believe that all of the dutch pilots, spanish, italian etc etc, for all of the years before JAA were flying for professional european airlines with a licence which in your words was ' worth Jack Shi*' ??"
Firstly, "jack sh1t" was your words not mine. All I was saying is, and this is based on sitting exams in spain, I've seen lots of people cheat in their exams in spain, and nothing was done about it. This sort of bad press is nothing new to forums like this, and industy as a whole. Frankly i dont much care if it upsets non UK FTO's an neither do the airlines, the fact this is true is what matters at the end of the day.
The other NAA's are not only bad with Brits, they are just bad in general.
I totally agree, a JAR licence should be a JAR licence, and although the truth may hurt, perhaps peolple should wake up and see reality...never gona happen
Do UK JAR licences actually have trouble getting jobs in other JAA states, or is it just non UK JAR licences holders finding it hard to get jobs in UK?
People have lives mate, dont have to reply straight away to make a point.
"I don't believe you in relation to training in other JAA member states. Do you seriously expect me to believe that all of the dutch pilots, spanish, italian etc etc, for all of the years before JAA were flying for professional european airlines with a licence which in your words was ' worth Jack Shi*' ??"
Firstly, "jack sh1t" was your words not mine. All I was saying is, and this is based on sitting exams in spain, I've seen lots of people cheat in their exams in spain, and nothing was done about it. This sort of bad press is nothing new to forums like this, and industy as a whole. Frankly i dont much care if it upsets non UK FTO's an neither do the airlines, the fact this is true is what matters at the end of the day.
The other NAA's are not only bad with Brits, they are just bad in general.
I totally agree, a JAR licence should be a JAR licence, and although the truth may hurt, perhaps peolple should wake up and see reality...never gona happen
Do UK JAR licences actually have trouble getting jobs in other JAA states, or is it just non UK JAR licences holders finding it hard to get jobs in UK?
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So, shock, horror you have seen people cheating on their exams in Spain have you ??? What exam would this be for then, your PPL I would guess as I can't see a CPL/ATPL on your profile.. Well, yes the UK has always been so squeeky clean.
You said in an earlier posting that,
'Having JAR CPL may make you more employable in other JAA states though.'
then contradict yourself by saying later,
'I totally agree, a JAR licence should be a JAR licence, and although the truth may hurt, perhaps peolple should wake up and see reality...never gona happen'
Good to see you agree with me on that point, so what is your view that if a brit pilot with a JAA licence cannot get work in an EU country other than the UK ( due to unhelpful NAA's and inability to convert) then the UK should close the doors on european pilots trying to get work here with a non UK issued JAA licence ?
Might as well just abandon JAA and go back to the old CAA ATPL exam syllabus then. It was easier and cost less, because obviously JAA harmonisation does not work from a flight crew licencing standpoint. Also, you didn't need the MCC in those days either.
This has probably all fallen on deaf ears though, lots of you will still think about mortgaging parents houses for what is fast becoming the best way of being repeatedly shafted
You said in an earlier posting that,
'Having JAR CPL may make you more employable in other JAA states though.'
then contradict yourself by saying later,
'I totally agree, a JAR licence should be a JAR licence, and although the truth may hurt, perhaps peolple should wake up and see reality...never gona happen'
Good to see you agree with me on that point, so what is your view that if a brit pilot with a JAA licence cannot get work in an EU country other than the UK ( due to unhelpful NAA's and inability to convert) then the UK should close the doors on european pilots trying to get work here with a non UK issued JAA licence ?
Might as well just abandon JAA and go back to the old CAA ATPL exam syllabus then. It was easier and cost less, because obviously JAA harmonisation does not work from a flight crew licencing standpoint. Also, you didn't need the MCC in those days either.
This has probably all fallen on deaf ears though, lots of you will still think about mortgaging parents houses for what is fast becoming the best way of being repeatedly shafted
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Was ATPL theory, just because someone has a PPL doesnt mean they havent done ATPL theory.
I dont contradict myself at all either, the first comment was reference to having a UK CPL over a JAR, saying it "may" make you more employable in other JAA states.
To be honest I dont have a view on other NAA's inability to convert, this is not something I've looked in to what so ever, hence why I ask at the bottom of my last post. I am only aware of non UK JAR licence holders having to convert to UK.
Its funny how you vent your frustration here, having obviously not done enough research before getting your licence. If its you that keeps getting repeatedly shafted, perhaps we have found the common denominator?
Ironic your name is beaver too, sounds like you need to go find some.
I dont contradict myself at all either, the first comment was reference to having a UK CPL over a JAR, saying it "may" make you more employable in other JAA states.
To be honest I dont have a view on other NAA's inability to convert, this is not something I've looked in to what so ever, hence why I ask at the bottom of my last post. I am only aware of non UK JAR licence holders having to convert to UK.
Its funny how you vent your frustration here, having obviously not done enough research before getting your licence. If its you that keeps getting repeatedly shafted, perhaps we have found the common denominator?
Ironic your name is beaver too, sounds like you need to go find some.
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"Its funny how you vent your frustration here, having obviously not done enough research before getting your licence."
It's not a question of research, it is a question of trust. An FTO tells you that your licence is going to be valid in any JAA member state, and advises you that you will be able to work there. You do a little big of digging and find out that this may be true, then you get tied up studying for your ATPL subjects. Therefore, not much time is actually spent trying to find out from each and every NAA whether or not you can work in their country with a minimum of fuss. When you do actually find out that it is virtually impossible to do so with minimum hours then yes, you do feel somewhat 'cheated' Especially when our UK market seems to be flooded with european JAA licenced pilots working here, a lot of them with minimum time.
It is also not a vent of frustration, but a discussion point. You do realise that this is a discussion forum don't you. If this is too much for you then you could always go and post on a womens knitting forum instead.
People shell out a lot of dosh on this career and expect to be given the truth. If the truth hurts then maybe "you can't handle the truth" Because when you finish your little MEIR and are stomping around looking for a job then perhaps this will matter a little bit more to you.
Effectively you are paying for a UK licence and not a European licence. So, at the start of your career you can only work in the UK. Pitting yourself against the thousands of others that have just got their shiny new licence. What is going to make you stand out ? Why are you any different than the rest ? Then you find out that some UK airline has taken on some europeans with a little bit more experience than you. Well, good for them, so can you now go and work in their country with your new JAA licence and slip into that low hour job they vacated to come to the UK. Answer = NO. Why, because their NAA couldn't give a shi* about you.
The point is that this matters, just a quick look on another forum here and you will see why http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...=240982&page=8 UK Pilots so desperate that they are almost bankrupt, harrowing stuff. Why, because they are stuck with just the UK market to apply to, and that UK market is getting flooded. Next year I imagine it will be worse with even more countries joining the EU. But of course none of this matters to you because with your new UK issued JAA licence you will just be able to walk into a job wont you ??
Hey, just be sure that you have done YOUR RESEARCH before you start shelling out your thousands on the flying part.
It's not a question of research, it is a question of trust. An FTO tells you that your licence is going to be valid in any JAA member state, and advises you that you will be able to work there. You do a little big of digging and find out that this may be true, then you get tied up studying for your ATPL subjects. Therefore, not much time is actually spent trying to find out from each and every NAA whether or not you can work in their country with a minimum of fuss. When you do actually find out that it is virtually impossible to do so with minimum hours then yes, you do feel somewhat 'cheated' Especially when our UK market seems to be flooded with european JAA licenced pilots working here, a lot of them with minimum time.
It is also not a vent of frustration, but a discussion point. You do realise that this is a discussion forum don't you. If this is too much for you then you could always go and post on a womens knitting forum instead.
People shell out a lot of dosh on this career and expect to be given the truth. If the truth hurts then maybe "you can't handle the truth" Because when you finish your little MEIR and are stomping around looking for a job then perhaps this will matter a little bit more to you.
Effectively you are paying for a UK licence and not a European licence. So, at the start of your career you can only work in the UK. Pitting yourself against the thousands of others that have just got their shiny new licence. What is going to make you stand out ? Why are you any different than the rest ? Then you find out that some UK airline has taken on some europeans with a little bit more experience than you. Well, good for them, so can you now go and work in their country with your new JAA licence and slip into that low hour job they vacated to come to the UK. Answer = NO. Why, because their NAA couldn't give a shi* about you.
The point is that this matters, just a quick look on another forum here and you will see why http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...=240982&page=8 UK Pilots so desperate that they are almost bankrupt, harrowing stuff. Why, because they are stuck with just the UK market to apply to, and that UK market is getting flooded. Next year I imagine it will be worse with even more countries joining the EU. But of course none of this matters to you because with your new UK issued JAA licence you will just be able to walk into a job wont you ??
Hey, just be sure that you have done YOUR RESEARCH before you start shelling out your thousands on the flying part.
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you cannot exercise any new privilidges until your licence has been returned from the CAA.
so, someone applying for a CPL cannot fly for reward until their CPL is processed and issued, however, they can still fly on their PPL privilidges.
same applies for any ratings you are adding to your licence.
clear? thought not.
so, someone applying for a CPL cannot fly for reward until their CPL is processed and issued, however, they can still fly on their PPL privilidges.
same applies for any ratings you are adding to your licence.
clear? thought not.