CAA/JAA Licence Admin Problems (Applications, Paperwork, etc)

[Piltdown Man]

Speedrestriction: You are absolutely right!

PM

[potkettleblack]

What about amending your logbook to reflect the hours as P1 as stated above and then write to the CAA setting out formally the following:-

- state that you were the sole manipulator of the controls

- provide evidence of you having paid the flight school for P1 hours - presumably less than the dual rate. Give them extracts of web print outs etc and credit card statements. Reference these up properly and cross refer to them in your letter.

- hang the instructor out to dry by stating that he did nothing and should not have logged hours as it was not an instructional flight, he was just a passenger and a close acquaintence and it was incidental that he was an instructor.

- point out that you already had a PPL and so why would you fly with an instructor as it makes no logical sense whatsoever

- try and get a letter of support for your case if you can from the flight school (hard I imagine)

- state that you are willing to make a signed affidavit in front of a lawyer stating that the above is true and fair if the CAA require this

For the sake of a bit of time drafting a formal letter and a stamp I would go down this route. Remember to be polite but to the point in your letter. Quoting applicable references to the ANO might also help and make the CAA realise that you are not going to be fobbed off. Remember they have rules to follow as well and they can't decline you if you can prove you were correct.

Good luck.

[Keygrip]

Really depends on how you have entered the flights in your logbook - by that I mean any remarks and/or instructor signatures.

Attempting to alter your logbook now that it has been seen by the CAA is tantamount to serious fraud and is not a direction that I would recommend anybody to go in.

I hope, for your sake, that I'm wrong when I say that the way you appear to have entered the flights (both dual and P1) highlights to the authority that you had an instructor on board - so you are screwed.

I saw another CPL candidate, at a different school (I've worked out where you you did the JAA CPL) who had over 600 hours - of which only THIRTY MINUTES was genuinely flown solo, including the full PPL course. I was amazed to discover that it was not only possible, but legal.

You have encountered a problem generated by flying within a system (FAA training) when training towards a licence and/or rating that they know, or care, little or nothing about. I would suggest that both schools you used were by a river - one FAA with "links with a JAA school", one JAA approved.

[Pilotdom]

I dont mean to sound funny and Im not having a go at you but didnt you think this was a bit dodgy when you were doing the flying?

[ramshorn]

Thanks for your thoughts

I wish i could just tippex the dual entries out now, but i don't think that would go down too well with the CAA.
The thing is that as one of you said, these flights that i did were operated as me being the PIC as i was the one building the hours towards my IR but with my lack of experience and know how of the rules and regs i stupidly(in hindsight) let my mate who was an instructor come along for the ride and allowed him log the time aswell.
Thankyou potkettleback for your advice on what to put in my grovelling letter to write to the CAA, which i'm going to start writing this afternoon.

Cheers for the support and advice

[B2N2]

Not an uncommon situation.
I have flown with a lot of students after their official training finished.
Not necessarily because they needed it, most of the time just for the fun of it.
I think the instructor is blamed here, don't agree with it.
His only mistake seems to have have been not to remind you how to log it properly.
Yes, you have not logged it properly. You were PIC, you should have logged it as such without adding the dual received bit.
What I don't understand is as to how you were able to do the skill test without the examiner reviewing your hours logged.
As far as advise is concerned; fly the 50 hours.

[Keygrip]

B2 - there's nothing wrong here.

The hours were logged under FAA regs quite legitmately - the problem was going to an FAA school in Arizona who either don't know or don't care about the regulations when logging time towards a JAA licence or rating - which is what the customer ultimately wanted.

The examiner for the CPL test (if he did bother to check at all - which I doubt) only need to look for minimum total flight hours of 150 before starting the course, number of dual hours flown on the course and evidence of having completed all the requirements for the JAA night qualification.

I do find it sad that the two schools involved allowed it to happen - but what has happened is a quite legitimate rip-off.

Afraid it's another case of "buyer beware" and observation of aviation rule number two...."It's YOUR responsibility to make sure it's right".

(Rule one? Don't fly into anything hard.)

[upandaway79]

Having done the MCC course after my training should my licencelook or have anything different on it or will it be issued just like someone who hasnt done an MCC?

[Mercenary Pilot]

No, nothing goes in your licence I think some companies may supply you with an insert but this isnt nessesery (but it is a nice touch).

However, you should have been given a course completion certificate. DONT lose it, you need it to apply for your first multi pilot aircraft type rating.

[upandaway79]

Thanks for the reply,
just got abit paranoid that something got lost on the way

[Crieff-ite]

Hi all, we're looking for the document on the CAA (uk) website that gives you the information on what you need to send off to apply for the CPL(h) licence (in other words, sending off your ppl licence, medical, passport, skills test documents etc).
We can't find it on the CAA website (but we know it exists somewhere in there) or in Lasors. We can all come up with good guesses from when we sent it off ourselves but can't fully remember all the documentation.....
Grateful for any definate replies guys.

Many thanks

Crieff-ite

[potkettleblack]

The guidance as to what to send off is on the last page of the application forms generally. Just scroll down to the right form off the attached page.

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...e=formcat&id=2

[Crieff-ite]

Thank you for that info, very very much appreciated........now we are all slapping each other on the fore-heads and saying "Doooh!!"

Best wishes

Crieff-ite

[helicopter-redeye]

It's worth calling them on the phone to see what else they may want (but forgot to mention).

I ended up with four rounds of '.. and can you send us XXX' before the great game was finished.

(But they took the payment without any problems ...)

[Crieff-ite]

Thanks HR, just passed that info onto him this morning......I was lucky, I only played CAA ping-pong once (no we don't need that and oops, now we do!).

Kind regards

Crieff-ite

[Boddy27]

Quick question from a soon-to-be CPL applicant

I know I should probably be asking my CFI about this but since I won't be seeing him for a while and I can't get him on the phone I was just wondering what documentation I'm required to submit to the CAA along with the CPL application form?
I know I have to submit medicals, proper identification, logbooks and some other stuff but I'd just like to know if copies of said documets is sufficient or if I need to submit the actual logbooks/medicals/passports since I'm a bit concerned about sending them through the post since I live outside the UK.

One other thing; do the CAA actually need verification and signed proof that the hours in my logbook are valid and correct, or do they somehow verify the hours are correct themselves? The CAA's site isn't much help about this but I'd rather know so that I can get the papers signed before I send them the application rather than have the hassle after I've sent them.


Thanks in advance :o)

[potkettleblack]

The CAA website has all the answers. Go to the form you need and the back page has all the attachments you need to send.

[Boddy27]

Ok, that answers the first question, but as I asked before; do I have to send the actual original documents?
Can I just send photocopies of my logbooks, passport (as ID) and medical?

And I still couldn't find any info regarding the logbook entry validations.

[scroggs]

You can ring the CAA. They are best placed to answer your questions. Their contact details are here.

Scroggs

[helicopter-redeye]

No you need the originals. You can send an alternate to the passport (Birth cert I think) or a copy of the Passport signed/ auth'ed by your school.

But call the CAA PLD for advice. THis is the one thing that does not need a credit card number in advance (its already built into their cost model)

... and watch out for all those valuable docs coming back in the torn CAA brown paper parcel afterwards ...

h-r