Egnatia flight college
Join Date: Jul 2005
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I have enrolled with Egnatia (EG), recieved my PPL study pack and can confirm that the PPL part of the ATPL course is self study and that EG provide a full study pack with all the necassary material in order to study the theory involved. The PPL books I was provided with are AFE guides which are very good and partially colour printed with good diagrams and tables.
The PPL pack also includes a headset for you to keep, Pooly's CRP-5, a flight rule, protractor and a 1:500,000 area chart. All the stuff is neatly put place in a flight bag which is also provided. I hav yet to recieve my headset and uniform and will collect it once i start in June so most likely the same will apply to yourself.
As far as I am aware, no further costs are involved. However, if you do require further instruction or help by an EG instructor towards the PPL theory then you would need to pay a per/hr rate which I am not aware of.
The CATS guide that you are talking about are not needed until the JAR-ATPL groundschool and is included in the 0-to-fATPL package.
Hope that helps and see you soon,
M.H.Ali
The PPL pack also includes a headset for you to keep, Pooly's CRP-5, a flight rule, protractor and a 1:500,000 area chart. All the stuff is neatly put place in a flight bag which is also provided. I hav yet to recieve my headset and uniform and will collect it once i start in June so most likely the same will apply to yourself.
As far as I am aware, no further costs are involved. However, if you do require further instruction or help by an EG instructor towards the PPL theory then you would need to pay a per/hr rate which I am not aware of.
The CATS guide that you are talking about are not needed until the JAR-ATPL groundschool and is included in the 0-to-fATPL package.
Hope that helps and see you soon,
M.H.Ali
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so what is your plan or what are you advised to do regards studing the course work before you go out there? do you intend to study the whole course before you go? how long is it until you start?
As far as I am aware, no further costs are involved. However, if you do require further instruction or help by an EG instructor towards the PPL theory then you would need to pay a per/hr rate which I am not aware of.
EpsilonVaz
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Im currently in London, but i was in Athens at the time I enrolled with EG. I would advise anyone wishing to start the PPL and finish within 1 month to request the PPL material atleast 4 months before date of commence. Its not easy to study all the subjects and pass the PPL skills test in 1 month and just to inform you, the HCAA have 9 PPL exams instead of 7 in the UK.
What im currently doing is studying the subjects one by one and not just reading them or learning them but im understanding them. If you learn a subject, you'll forget it within a few months but understand it and you'll take it with you in the right hand seat, every word of it. I finished the technical subject a few weeks ago and today i finished Air Law and its a good feeling to be one step ahead. Hopefully i'll be re-reading the subjects one bye one when i arrive at Kavala but it'll be more of a revision than a pain in the arse.
Iv already asked instructors at EG and they do not mind the odd one or two questions however, if its somthing like going through a CRP-5 which can take upto an hr (explaining literally everything) then you will be charged an hourly rate.
Anyways, if theres anything else you'd like to know, drop a message. I'll try my best to answer them.
M.H.Ali
What im currently doing is studying the subjects one by one and not just reading them or learning them but im understanding them. If you learn a subject, you'll forget it within a few months but understand it and you'll take it with you in the right hand seat, every word of it. I finished the technical subject a few weeks ago and today i finished Air Law and its a good feeling to be one step ahead. Hopefully i'll be re-reading the subjects one bye one when i arrive at Kavala but it'll be more of a revision than a pain in the arse.
Iv already asked instructors at EG and they do not mind the odd one or two questions however, if its somthing like going through a CRP-5 which can take upto an hr (explaining literally everything) then you will be charged an hourly rate.
Anyways, if theres anything else you'd like to know, drop a message. I'll try my best to answer them.
M.H.Ali
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Hey
Kavala tower, G-yoda1, radio check on 121.5mhz.
Speed bird, what you are doing is excellent! Keep it up! Study, Study Study. The more you know before you go out there the easier you life will be 
Also i would advise you to get a copy of the ppl confuser and/or a subscription to airquiz.com. These 2 publications contain the complete jaa ppl question bank.
The only thing to be worried about is if the HCAA has started using the jaa question bank
for ppl theory . Ah yes in January they asked us to sit all the ppl exams in the space of one day from the hours of 9:00am to 2:00pm. There is no way you can do nine exams in that space of time and no way you can finish the ppl in 28 days consequently. Lord help you if you have a resit and if they still have not started using the jaa question bank then lord help you further. 
.
The school requires you to get 85% on the mocks before they allow you to progress to the actual ppl exams.
hehe lol spot on 
sort off.
Extra costs, as mentioned is the accommodation. Make sure you budget £3k ontop of the price just in case (my opinion - you prob can get away with 2k). They don't pay for weekends. I was spending 300 euros per month before i left for food.
Keromoti is a nice place to stay but anyone going there should take allot of dvd's as greek tv is poo.
At the school they have oxford cbt material and in general circulation between students there is a oxford disc containing all the ppl subjects. One of the cd's contains info on how to use the nav computer. This is a must! I say again must! get a copy and use it. You will be spinning those wheels in no time.
I am just wondering if they have anyone to teach the atpl subjects yet
Egnatia's management is excellent and you will enjoy being out there
Rock on
so what is your plan or what are you advised to do regards studing the course work before you go out there? do you intend to study the whole course before you go?
Also i would advise you to get a copy of the ppl confuser and/or a subscription to airquiz.com. These 2 publications contain the complete jaa ppl question bank. The only thing to be worried about is if the HCAA has started using the jaa question bank
for ppl theory . Ah yes in January they asked us to sit all the ppl exams in the space of one day from the hours of 9:00am to 2:00pm. There is no way you can do nine exams in that space of time and no way you can finish the ppl in 28 days consequently. Lord help you if you have a resit and if they still have not started using the jaa question bank then lord help you further. . The school requires you to get 85% on the mocks before they allow you to progress to the actual ppl exams.
but then U have to take exams that might take total more than 3 weeks in total.
sort off.Extra costs, as mentioned is the accommodation. Make sure you budget £3k ontop of the price just in case (my opinion - you prob can get away with 2k). They don't pay for weekends. I was spending 300 euros per month before i left for food.
Keromoti is a nice place to stay but anyone going there should take allot of dvd's as greek tv is poo.
Iv already asked instructors at EG and they do not mind the odd one or two questions however, if its somthing like going through a CRP-5 which can take upto an hr (explaining literally everything) then you will be charged an hourly rate
The CATS guide that you are talking about are not needed until the JAR-ATPL groundschool and is included in the 0-to-fATPL package.
Egnatia's management is excellent and you will enjoy being out there
Rock on
Last edited by yoda1; 13th Feb 2007 at 11:49.
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iv been e mailing eg but they dont reply very often. so did you have to pay in full before getting your ppl stuff posted out to you? did you visit the school or why did you choose eg for your ppl speedbird002?
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When you pay the deposit (£500) they will send you your learning pack in the post or give it to you there and then if you pay in person
Edit- Yes they have an ATPL instructor, currently on a part-time basis teaching weekends as he lectures full-time somewhere else. Not sure of his name but im sure somebody can tell you.
Cheers,
Matt.
Edit- Yes they have an ATPL instructor, currently on a part-time basis teaching weekends as he lectures full-time somewhere else. Not sure of his name but im sure somebody can tell you.
Cheers,
Matt.
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There are many positive points about Egnatia, however there are also many negative points that I feel have not been stated. I know other fellow students have refrained from posting these on PPRuNe, but I feel that it is unfair on those who are researching Flight Schools not to get the full story.
Firstly, internet access is extremely limited, at the school the connection is very slow (not broadband) and sometimes unuseable, the management often turn it off aswell. Contrary to what the management say there is NO INTERNET IN THE ACCOMODATION. You will get extremely bored some evenings, especially in the colder months. The management keep saying "we are looking into it", apparently this has been the story since the school opened, now it's turned to just be an all out "NO". Some students in other accomodation down the road have internet access, however it is my understanding that this is only due to the fact an instructor used to live there and it was part of his employment package.
To the management: No offence, I understand that you are of the older generation, you must understand that people that have grown up having the internet as a means of contact with their friends it becomes rather important. Especially when some of your students are leaving their home countries for a long, long time. They need to be able to keep in contact, and even MORE IMPORTANTLY, use BRISTOL GROUNDSCHOOL FEEDBACK to study, since the groundschool at Egnatia seems to be a shambles, but I will cover that later. But basically, you severely underestimate the importance an internet connection has.
Next, the integral part of learning to fly, the Aeroplanes!
Egnatia Aviation's fleet consists of 5 aircraft. 4 DA40's and 1 DA42. Yes, you heard correct, one DA42, If you come here expecting to do your CPL/ME/IR on a twin, expect to be here for a long, long time. Also, the CFI seems to give priority to Cypriot students (you will understand when you meet him).
Now, the DA40's, Egnatia has four of them. Generally, two of them are grounded because of technical problems, sometimes, there is only one operational DA40. Anyway, there are two PPL instructors at the school, one plane each. So hour builders, you will also be here for a long, long time. Also keep in mind, when you go over the days of accomodation in the package, you will have to pay extra accomodation, this works out to be 600euros a month.
Weither you like the accomodation or not differs from person to person, I will however say that some of the accomodation DOES NOT HAVE AIR CONDITIONING, so in the summer, it will get hot, very hot. Also in the winter it gets extremely cold at night, this year it reached -9C, but is generally around -3C. There is a notice in some of the accomodation telling you to switch the heating off at night time, the time when it's needed most, if you keep it on, they will charge you extra for it. But, they also say, if you feel cold, then they can give you extra blankets! Make what you want of that...
So, Egnatia tells you that you can do your PPL in 28 days. Therefore they provide you with 28 days accomodation. In Greece there are 9 PPL written exams. These have to be taken in Athens, that is a 7 hour drive away, or a 1 hour flight. If you want to fly, you will have to pay for that yourself, else there is the 7 hour drive. The PPL exams can only be sat ONE DAY A MONTH, and the session only runs for 4 hours. So, unless you are superman, there is no way you can sit the exams in one session, you will have to come back, yep, that means you will be spending more than the 28 days accomodation, and you WILL be charged for it. Also, the Greek CAA (HCAA) is extremely unorganised, simple things take ages, for example, when you finish your training, expect to wait months to receive your licence. If you are waiting for a commercial licence, you won't be able to apply for a job before you have your licence in hand. But, back on subject. As other students can confirm, the HCAA PPL Exams contain a lot of material from ATPL level. Many students learn this the hard way and end up failing the first sitting through no fault of their own. They did study the correct syllabus. The HCAA just decide to move the goal posts. So, you will have to wait another month for a resit, that's going to cost you more accomodation.
ATPL Groundschool, apparently the hardest and most stressful part of your training. Egnatia Aviation use CATS study guides. In the last module (from what I understand this ran from September to November). The Groundschool Instructor just decided that he wouldn't turn up. Egnatia scrambled around to find a replacement and Dr Stuart Smith (who runs CATS, and is also suppose to be Egnatia's Head of Training) turned up. This current module, started in January. The Groundschool instructor didn't turn up again. One month went by, there was no sight of any instructor. Now, they have an Professor from a University in Thessaloniki that comes Saturday, Sunday and Monday. The rest of the week the ATPL students are left to their own devices. Of course, they are still being charged for the In-house training. The Head of Training, Dr Stuart Smith, seems to have abandoned the school. He has an office at the school, but has not been here since November last year, and from what I understand, he is refusing to come for some reason.
The reason for this post is that I am sick and tired of all the broken promises and the things that never happen at Egnatia (there has even been instructors at Egnatia that have left because they didn't keep up their end of the deal). The management need to wake up and listen to the students.
I hope this post strikes a chord with them and I hope it gets better in the future.
It seems that the age-old cliche is true;
You Get What You Pay For.
Firstly, internet access is extremely limited, at the school the connection is very slow (not broadband) and sometimes unuseable, the management often turn it off aswell. Contrary to what the management say there is NO INTERNET IN THE ACCOMODATION. You will get extremely bored some evenings, especially in the colder months. The management keep saying "we are looking into it", apparently this has been the story since the school opened, now it's turned to just be an all out "NO". Some students in other accomodation down the road have internet access, however it is my understanding that this is only due to the fact an instructor used to live there and it was part of his employment package.
To the management: No offence, I understand that you are of the older generation, you must understand that people that have grown up having the internet as a means of contact with their friends it becomes rather important. Especially when some of your students are leaving their home countries for a long, long time. They need to be able to keep in contact, and even MORE IMPORTANTLY, use BRISTOL GROUNDSCHOOL FEEDBACK to study, since the groundschool at Egnatia seems to be a shambles, but I will cover that later. But basically, you severely underestimate the importance an internet connection has.
Next, the integral part of learning to fly, the Aeroplanes!
Egnatia Aviation's fleet consists of 5 aircraft. 4 DA40's and 1 DA42. Yes, you heard correct, one DA42, If you come here expecting to do your CPL/ME/IR on a twin, expect to be here for a long, long time. Also, the CFI seems to give priority to Cypriot students (you will understand when you meet him).
Now, the DA40's, Egnatia has four of them. Generally, two of them are grounded because of technical problems, sometimes, there is only one operational DA40. Anyway, there are two PPL instructors at the school, one plane each. So hour builders, you will also be here for a long, long time. Also keep in mind, when you go over the days of accomodation in the package, you will have to pay extra accomodation, this works out to be 600euros a month.
Weither you like the accomodation or not differs from person to person, I will however say that some of the accomodation DOES NOT HAVE AIR CONDITIONING, so in the summer, it will get hot, very hot. Also in the winter it gets extremely cold at night, this year it reached -9C, but is generally around -3C. There is a notice in some of the accomodation telling you to switch the heating off at night time, the time when it's needed most, if you keep it on, they will charge you extra for it. But, they also say, if you feel cold, then they can give you extra blankets! Make what you want of that...
So, Egnatia tells you that you can do your PPL in 28 days. Therefore they provide you with 28 days accomodation. In Greece there are 9 PPL written exams. These have to be taken in Athens, that is a 7 hour drive away, or a 1 hour flight. If you want to fly, you will have to pay for that yourself, else there is the 7 hour drive. The PPL exams can only be sat ONE DAY A MONTH, and the session only runs for 4 hours. So, unless you are superman, there is no way you can sit the exams in one session, you will have to come back, yep, that means you will be spending more than the 28 days accomodation, and you WILL be charged for it. Also, the Greek CAA (HCAA) is extremely unorganised, simple things take ages, for example, when you finish your training, expect to wait months to receive your licence. If you are waiting for a commercial licence, you won't be able to apply for a job before you have your licence in hand. But, back on subject. As other students can confirm, the HCAA PPL Exams contain a lot of material from ATPL level. Many students learn this the hard way and end up failing the first sitting through no fault of their own. They did study the correct syllabus. The HCAA just decide to move the goal posts. So, you will have to wait another month for a resit, that's going to cost you more accomodation.
ATPL Groundschool, apparently the hardest and most stressful part of your training. Egnatia Aviation use CATS study guides. In the last module (from what I understand this ran from September to November). The Groundschool Instructor just decided that he wouldn't turn up. Egnatia scrambled around to find a replacement and Dr Stuart Smith (who runs CATS, and is also suppose to be Egnatia's Head of Training) turned up. This current module, started in January. The Groundschool instructor didn't turn up again. One month went by, there was no sight of any instructor. Now, they have an Professor from a University in Thessaloniki that comes Saturday, Sunday and Monday. The rest of the week the ATPL students are left to their own devices. Of course, they are still being charged for the In-house training. The Head of Training, Dr Stuart Smith, seems to have abandoned the school. He has an office at the school, but has not been here since November last year, and from what I understand, he is refusing to come for some reason.
The reason for this post is that I am sick and tired of all the broken promises and the things that never happen at Egnatia (there has even been instructors at Egnatia that have left because they didn't keep up their end of the deal). The management need to wake up and listen to the students.
I hope this post strikes a chord with them and I hope it gets better in the future.
It seems that the age-old cliche is true;
You Get What You Pay For.
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Jetfive
Thanks for your post, very much appreciated. Hopefully the fact that you have made this "public knowledge" will improve conditions for the future. It has certainly made me think twice! Good luck.
Thanks for your post, very much appreciated. Hopefully the fact that you have made this "public knowledge" will improve conditions for the future. It has certainly made me think twice! Good luck.
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What did you expect? that things would run smoothly and you would get your certificates in a timely manner at a discounted price?
c'mon, you are dealing with a Greek flight school, that should be enough warning. Don't go there or any of the spanish schools for that matter.
I have been corresponding with Egnatia and Aerodynamics Malaga, what a waste of time. Poorly educated staff!!!
I hope this serves as a reminder NOT to go to southern Europe, and if you do... DO NOT!! pay in advance, gives you the option to vote with your feet WHEN they don't honor their promises.
Do not accept extra rent charges as a consequence of their poor planning!
c'mon, you are dealing with a Greek flight school, that should be enough warning. Don't go there or any of the spanish schools for that matter.
I have been corresponding with Egnatia and Aerodynamics Malaga, what a waste of time. Poorly educated staff!!!
I hope this serves as a reminder NOT to go to southern Europe, and if you do... DO NOT!! pay in advance, gives you the option to vote with your feet WHEN they don't honor their promises.
Do not accept extra rent charges as a consequence of their poor planning!
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JetFive,
It probably takes balls to stand up and put your concerns out. At the end of the day your paying for a service and if it isn't delivered then you have the right to express your concern. I probably made a good decision in the end by not going to Egnatia by the looks of things, I would've started today infact or maybe not depending how their ATPL instructor crisis is. Its always the risk by choosing a new provider. I hope Egnatia do turn out to be a creditable provider as I did enjoy visiting them and It would be nice to do some touring of the greek islands in the future.
Hang in tight JetFive and let us know how you get on with Egnatia. If not then maybe you should consider cutting your losses and doing the UK route. It may cost you a little bit more but not as much if you continue and things go sour in Greece.
Was also interested to read this from Billiebob in another thread:
It probably takes balls to stand up and put your concerns out. At the end of the day your paying for a service and if it isn't delivered then you have the right to express your concern. I probably made a good decision in the end by not going to Egnatia by the looks of things, I would've started today infact or maybe not depending how their ATPL instructor crisis is. Its always the risk by choosing a new provider. I hope Egnatia do turn out to be a creditable provider as I did enjoy visiting them and It would be nice to do some touring of the greek islands in the future.
Hang in tight JetFive and let us know how you get on with Egnatia. If not then maybe you should consider cutting your losses and doing the UK route. It may cost you a little bit more but not as much if you continue and things go sour in Greece.
Was also interested to read this from Billiebob in another thread:
Any member state may choose to ignore the requirements of JAR-FCL and Greece has clearly, and unsurprisingly, elected to do so in accepting the UK CAA exams without a formal agreement with the UK CAA, in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.065(b).
Whlist this is in the financial interests of Greek FTOs, such as Egnatia, it is not in compliance with JAR-FCL and you should be aware that any other member state would be quite within its rights to refuse to recognise a licence issued under these conditions.
Whlist this is in the financial interests of Greek FTOs, such as Egnatia, it is not in compliance with JAR-FCL and you should be aware that any other member state would be quite within its rights to refuse to recognise a licence issued under these conditions.
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"What did you expect? that things would run smoothly and you would get your certificates in a timely manner at a discounted price?
c'mon, you are dealing with a Greek flight school, that should be enough warning. Don't go there or any of the spanish schools for that matter.
I have been corresponding with Egnatia and Aerodynamics Malaga, what a waste of time. Poorly educated staff!!!
I hope this serves as a reminder NOT to go to southern Europe, and if you do... DO NOT!! pay in advance, gives you the option to vote with your feet WHEN they don't honor their promises.
Do not accept extra rent charges as a consequence of their poor planning!"
I DO agree with a lot of whats been said here but like any new start up there is teething problems. However, if you can tell me where you're going to do a PPL in brand new a/c with seriously good instructors and perfect weather for less than £100p/h please let me know and I'll go there instead. Ok, so Egnatia is not perfect and a lot of improvements need to be made but Im sure Oxford/Cabair/Stapleford/CTC/Cranfield/AnyOtherGenericFlightSchool students are all p1ssed off about stuff at times as well.
Its not all bad.
Cheers,
Matt.
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The directors have both held senior management/executive positions in UK companies. The office staff were educated at university (one in the UK)and know the company inside out. What exactly is so challenging that these people cant help you with?
None of your business what the challenge is, I bet with only one twin they don't get the job done.
Now go back to your 0-fATPL studies. Voice your opinion when you actually have some experience to back it - Like the senior management
...I heard about that really cheap flight school in Turkey, bet they are good too
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Quote:
The directors have both held senior management/executive positions in UK companies. The office staff were educated at university (one in the UK)and know the company inside out. What exactly is so challenging that these people cant help you with?
blah blah blah - so has my grandma.
None of your business what the challenge is, I bet with only one twin they don't get the job done.
Now go back to your 0-fATPL studies. Voice your opinion when you actually have some experience to back it - Like the senior management
...I heard about that really cheap flight school in Turkey, bet they are good too
My opinions of Egnatia are formed through being in and around the school all day, every day, yours through...what exactly? A bad emailing experience? Sounds awful.
Please just stop wasting your time posting in this thread until you have something worthwhile and FACTUAL to post in it. We dont want rumours, hearsay and massive generalisations about Egnatia, we want the clear picture.
In the mean time I will get back to my 0-fATPL study. You can get back to Flight Sim X. I hear its really good.
Cheers,
Matt.
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After reading the post slightly above, I am going to be in contact with Egnatia tommorrow and ask for my deposit back. I expect to finish as stated on their website or atleast F******* 
have fulltime instructors for ARPL groundschool. 
Not a uni lecturer with minimal aviation experience or even none 
I think im gonna get my PPL and hours done at Orlando flight training and the rest at Cabair through their Pathfinder scheme.
Good job i didnt commit any money with them. Thanks so much for the information.
have fulltime instructors for ARPL groundschool. Not a uni lecturer with minimal aviation experience or even none I think im gonna get my PPL and hours done at Orlando flight training and the rest at Cabair through their Pathfinder scheme.
Good job i didnt commit any money with them. Thanks so much for the information.
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And I'm sure the CLEAR picture will come from a newbie with experience from a single school
I prefer FS2004, the systems requirement suit my computer better.
And your basis of comparison is based on???
I prefer FS2004, the systems requirement suit my computer better.
My opinions of Egnatia are formed through being in and around the school all day, every day, yours through...what exactly
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I'm not directly comparing Egnatia to anywhere,
I know all schools have problems and Egnatia is no different to any other. I went to Stapleford in the summer and one student was living in a tent because they had no accommodation. Im sure they didnt say to him 'come back, we're full', because they are a business like any other. And nobody is questioning Stapleford.
I'ts exactly the same at Egnatia. Its not perfect, but where is?
Cheers,
Matt.
I know all schools have problems and Egnatia is no different to any other. I went to Stapleford in the summer and one student was living in a tent because they had no accommodation. Im sure they didnt say to him 'come back, we're full', because they are a business like any other. And nobody is questioning Stapleford.
I'ts exactly the same at Egnatia. Its not perfect, but where is?
Cheers,
Matt.
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Jetfive’s post gives me the opportunity to share some information with all those who are really serious about their training and are desperately searching for any information based on personal experiences and facts. I am not interested to reply to those who in the absence of any factual or intelligent information, result to cheap unfounded slurs. They tend to confuse those that they claim want to help.
First of all, Jetfive, you did not have to get a new pprune id for the post. As I have mentioned in previous posts everybody is entitled to voice their own opinion, provided that they do not claim to represent the company. In any case, it is very obvious who you are based on the current mixture of students, style of writing etc. Makes no difference and changes nothing, apart from the fact that instructors and management are always available to the students, both during office hours and outside, 7 days a week. I do not think there are many schools that can claim that. I will try and comment on all the points you raised here from the company’s prospective of course.
Internet access – nowhere in the sales literature, web pages, emails, terms and conditions Egnatia Aviation states or promises to provide Internet access (paid or unpaid) at the accommodation and we have never said that we are working on it. (You knew this before you decided to come here). Instead, we provide free, unlimited access at the school and plenty of areas to sit, both in private and with other students. The school wants the students to spend most of their time at the school. This is where you learn most, not in your room. Not only you are at your instructor’s disposal which can result in extra flying slots but you also learn a lot more than you think from other students who are in more advanced training modules than yourself. As far as the evenings are concerned, there is at least one Internet café nearby. As far as Internet service disruption you are making a big issue about, is not even one hour a week on average and it is due to service abuse by your fellow students. The fact that some students may or may not have Internet access and why, is irrelevant to you and I am not going to remove it from them because of you. The vast majority of them are studying ATPL Theory and they need it for their studies more than most.
Aeroplanes – what does it matter to a student how many Twins or Singles the school has and how many may or may not be operational at any given time? What should matter most is whether there is an aircraft available to you or your instructor when is needed and that it is properly equipped and safe. Leave the rest to the company – that is what we are here for. You are implying that there serious delays because of the single twin and that students do not finish on time or not at all. Who? Is that what you heard of do you know of anybody specific? As I am not in the office now until Sunday I will publish on Monday the initials of all the people, the training they did, when they started and when they finished for all to see. What should matter to you is the aircraft and instructor availability and by controlling the number of students, their starting dates and type of training required, we make sure that there are no delays. We can not of course control the weather that as you know affects everybody’s training.
Accommodation – there are various types, shapes and sizes. Why is it an issue in the middle of the winter that there is no air conditioning in some of the accommodation? Shouldn’t you wait until the summer to complain? About the heating. It gets ‘extremely’ cold at night? How many nights? You live in the UK and a place in Greece by the sea gets extremely cold at night? What did you wear outside today? Yes there is a reminder in some of the rooms about heating bills (it should be in all actually) so that people do not waste energy and money. If you all do, you will pay more as we will be forced to increase our prices to cover the extra cost. Quite simple really. Do you know how many people have been charged extra? None, ever.
PPL – yes there is an issue with the PPL theory exam questions but it is only transitional and has not yet affected anybody’s 0 – ATPL course, and never will. More than 10 PPLs have been issued in the last 6 months – again I can publish initials. I am sure Jetfive can find out who they are. We are working with the Hellenic CAA to improve the current situation and adopt more modern procedures. By the way, we will never charge for any extra accommodation resulting from delays we are responsible for. As it happens, from Monday there will be some changes that will greatly improve the recent situation – I am in a series of meetings tomorrow with the HCAA to discuss the finer points before they are announced to the students. They also include the licence issue, which although is not as dramatic as it is presented in the post, the timescales can be and will be reduced. It always take time for a license to be issued as there are a number of checks that must be done, especially as many people nowadays have training and ratings not only from other parts of Europe but from all over the world.
ATPL Groundschool – the first module ran as expected with the best possible tutor, Stuart Smith. Yes, the instructor recruited in the UK to replace Stuart once he completed his scheduled subject did not turn up, but it is testimony to Egnatia Aviation’s and Stuart’s commitment that he cancelled other arrangements in order to complete the stage. The percentages achieved by the students and the first time passes say so. Stage 2 started late, again due to a UK instructor not turning up for personal reasons, so after rejecting many non experienced ex-ATPL students as a stop gap we decided to become self-sufficient, so we restructured the stage and recruited in the first instance a very experienced university tutor with 15 years aviation training at all levels (including military jets). The ATPL course will be completed on time and the students will achieve the high marks we expect them to. In order to avoid similar incidents in the future Egnatia Aviation is taking the appropriate steps as we speak. There is no danger that any anybody will loose their time or money for that matter. We do not ask for big deposits or money for things we have not delivered and we never will. There are also no issues with Stuart Smith. He is still a valuable member of Egnatia Aviation.
The only problem I have with this post is the way some things are written to imply dreadful things. For example ‘instructor’s have left …’. One instructor left few months ago for various reasons that have nothing to do with this post, but doesn’t this happen everywhere?
One last point – Egnatia Aviation provides good quality training at very low prices. Your money is spent on the aircraft, the instructors, the facilities and the things you need to get the best training. If you want fast internet access everywhere, luxury apartments etc you will have to pay for them – you do that elsewhere. You choose.
George
Egnatia Aviation
First of all, Jetfive, you did not have to get a new pprune id for the post. As I have mentioned in previous posts everybody is entitled to voice their own opinion, provided that they do not claim to represent the company. In any case, it is very obvious who you are based on the current mixture of students, style of writing etc. Makes no difference and changes nothing, apart from the fact that instructors and management are always available to the students, both during office hours and outside, 7 days a week. I do not think there are many schools that can claim that. I will try and comment on all the points you raised here from the company’s prospective of course.
Internet access – nowhere in the sales literature, web pages, emails, terms and conditions Egnatia Aviation states or promises to provide Internet access (paid or unpaid) at the accommodation and we have never said that we are working on it. (You knew this before you decided to come here). Instead, we provide free, unlimited access at the school and plenty of areas to sit, both in private and with other students. The school wants the students to spend most of their time at the school. This is where you learn most, not in your room. Not only you are at your instructor’s disposal which can result in extra flying slots but you also learn a lot more than you think from other students who are in more advanced training modules than yourself. As far as the evenings are concerned, there is at least one Internet café nearby. As far as Internet service disruption you are making a big issue about, is not even one hour a week on average and it is due to service abuse by your fellow students. The fact that some students may or may not have Internet access and why, is irrelevant to you and I am not going to remove it from them because of you. The vast majority of them are studying ATPL Theory and they need it for their studies more than most.
Aeroplanes – what does it matter to a student how many Twins or Singles the school has and how many may or may not be operational at any given time? What should matter most is whether there is an aircraft available to you or your instructor when is needed and that it is properly equipped and safe. Leave the rest to the company – that is what we are here for. You are implying that there serious delays because of the single twin and that students do not finish on time or not at all. Who? Is that what you heard of do you know of anybody specific? As I am not in the office now until Sunday I will publish on Monday the initials of all the people, the training they did, when they started and when they finished for all to see. What should matter to you is the aircraft and instructor availability and by controlling the number of students, their starting dates and type of training required, we make sure that there are no delays. We can not of course control the weather that as you know affects everybody’s training.
Accommodation – there are various types, shapes and sizes. Why is it an issue in the middle of the winter that there is no air conditioning in some of the accommodation? Shouldn’t you wait until the summer to complain? About the heating. It gets ‘extremely’ cold at night? How many nights? You live in the UK and a place in Greece by the sea gets extremely cold at night? What did you wear outside today? Yes there is a reminder in some of the rooms about heating bills (it should be in all actually) so that people do not waste energy and money. If you all do, you will pay more as we will be forced to increase our prices to cover the extra cost. Quite simple really. Do you know how many people have been charged extra? None, ever.
PPL – yes there is an issue with the PPL theory exam questions but it is only transitional and has not yet affected anybody’s 0 – ATPL course, and never will. More than 10 PPLs have been issued in the last 6 months – again I can publish initials. I am sure Jetfive can find out who they are. We are working with the Hellenic CAA to improve the current situation and adopt more modern procedures. By the way, we will never charge for any extra accommodation resulting from delays we are responsible for. As it happens, from Monday there will be some changes that will greatly improve the recent situation – I am in a series of meetings tomorrow with the HCAA to discuss the finer points before they are announced to the students. They also include the licence issue, which although is not as dramatic as it is presented in the post, the timescales can be and will be reduced. It always take time for a license to be issued as there are a number of checks that must be done, especially as many people nowadays have training and ratings not only from other parts of Europe but from all over the world.
ATPL Groundschool – the first module ran as expected with the best possible tutor, Stuart Smith. Yes, the instructor recruited in the UK to replace Stuart once he completed his scheduled subject did not turn up, but it is testimony to Egnatia Aviation’s and Stuart’s commitment that he cancelled other arrangements in order to complete the stage. The percentages achieved by the students and the first time passes say so. Stage 2 started late, again due to a UK instructor not turning up for personal reasons, so after rejecting many non experienced ex-ATPL students as a stop gap we decided to become self-sufficient, so we restructured the stage and recruited in the first instance a very experienced university tutor with 15 years aviation training at all levels (including military jets). The ATPL course will be completed on time and the students will achieve the high marks we expect them to. In order to avoid similar incidents in the future Egnatia Aviation is taking the appropriate steps as we speak. There is no danger that any anybody will loose their time or money for that matter. We do not ask for big deposits or money for things we have not delivered and we never will. There are also no issues with Stuart Smith. He is still a valuable member of Egnatia Aviation.
The only problem I have with this post is the way some things are written to imply dreadful things. For example ‘instructor’s have left …’. One instructor left few months ago for various reasons that have nothing to do with this post, but doesn’t this happen everywhere?
One last point – Egnatia Aviation provides good quality training at very low prices. Your money is spent on the aircraft, the instructors, the facilities and the things you need to get the best training. If you want fast internet access everywhere, luxury apartments etc you will have to pay for them – you do that elsewhere. You choose.
George
Egnatia Aviation
Last edited by georgez; 2nd Mar 2007 at 03:20.
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I've just started, 4 days ago, my 0-fATPL training in the school and even though i have been following this thread for quite some time, i decided to post after reading jetfive's comments.
The way i see it, it all depends on whether u see the glass half empty or half full. Of course the school like every school has its problems but in the end, i believe the pros pretty much outweight the cons. The most important thing to me is intentions. To be more specific, the intention of the managment to improve every aspect of the education we get. The directors are well informed of the matters that concern us and during my limited time here, i understand that they dont just sit back and let things go with the flow, they keep working on the right direction.
The school is a new one and all of us who have already joined and are going to join know that, there are little things here and there who could get better but at the end of the day, i dont regret for a single minute my decision to join Egnatia. Im getting way more than i paid for.
The way i see it, it all depends on whether u see the glass half empty or half full. Of course the school like every school has its problems but in the end, i believe the pros pretty much outweight the cons. The most important thing to me is intentions. To be more specific, the intention of the managment to improve every aspect of the education we get. The directors are well informed of the matters that concern us and during my limited time here, i understand that they dont just sit back and let things go with the flow, they keep working on the right direction.
The school is a new one and all of us who have already joined and are going to join know that, there are little things here and there who could get better but at the end of the day, i dont regret for a single minute my decision to join Egnatia. Im getting way more than i paid for.
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This is another school thread where the discussion has drifted from the obtaining of professional licences toward PPL stuff. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have an entire forum dedicated to PPLs and private flying. It is called, wait for it, Private Flying. This forum, as its name implies, is about the study for and achievement of professional licences only. For the hard of reading, that means CPL/IR and above. I will accept discussion about pre-CPL hour-building (for which there are several geographically-related threads) but PPLs are not appropriate here.
This thread will now be closed. It will remain accessible for those who wish to refer to it, but, for further discussion of Egnatia's professional licence training, please start a new thread.
Scroggs
This thread will now be closed. It will remain accessible for those who wish to refer to it, but, for further discussion of Egnatia's professional licence training, please start a new thread.
Scroggs
