The never-ending 'Modular vs. Integrated' debate - merged ad nauseam
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We were taught the complex subject of gyroscopes at Oxford with a baked bean tin lid and a pencil. I'm not sure if any other teaching organisation will be able to stretch their budget to those limits.
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Oh, and X3- don't get sold by the brochure- I've been there- there is no 'state of the art' equipment- and some of the instructors don't like to use it. Instructing ranges from the completely disinterested to average, although there are a few exceptional cases- 'what you need to know' RIP- he knows who he is. My advice- and that's all it is- is save your cash and go distance with Alex or somewhere else- Bristol feedback is all you need.... unless your ma and pa are paying for it then who cares...lol
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Hey all,
I've been having a good think through all the opportunities that I have available. I know this subject may have been mentioned previously but i thought that this was slightly separate.
I was just wondering really...if i can explain this correctly...How many people out there would go down the modular route, if the modular schools could come to agreements with airlines, like the integrated schools do. This biggest thing stopping me doing the modular route is the fact that it comes across as you just get the licence and you're on your own.
Don't get me wrong, i know nothing will be handed to me on a plate, and i don't expect it to be, not at all.
It's just that there seems to be a lot more uncertainty with regards to actual opportunities within the modular route than the integrated route.
I know not everybody on an integrated course will get an interview etc etc but it seems like the airlines will just pick from there, then stick up an ad for low hour guys when they need to fill a few more spaces.
So far what iv said has been covered so many times, but i'm struggling to get my point across. Hopefully sombody will see what i mean
I've been having a good think through all the opportunities that I have available. I know this subject may have been mentioned previously but i thought that this was slightly separate.
I was just wondering really...if i can explain this correctly...How many people out there would go down the modular route, if the modular schools could come to agreements with airlines, like the integrated schools do. This biggest thing stopping me doing the modular route is the fact that it comes across as you just get the licence and you're on your own.
Don't get me wrong, i know nothing will be handed to me on a plate, and i don't expect it to be, not at all.
It's just that there seems to be a lot more uncertainty with regards to actual opportunities within the modular route than the integrated route.
I know not everybody on an integrated course will get an interview etc etc but it seems like the airlines will just pick from there, then stick up an ad for low hour guys when they need to fill a few more spaces.
So far what iv said has been covered so many times, but i'm struggling to get my point across. Hopefully sombody will see what i mean
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I hear you sicky. I've been thinking the same and pretty much come to the same conclusions.
The truth is there is a discrepancy between the prices for modular compared to integrated for what esentially, no, actually is the same license. Anyone should look at those numbers and wonder why even consider integrated training at such a cost.
But at the end of the day its the employment opportunities afterwards that dictates things the most for people. In many peoples minds, whether you're £35K in debt or £75K in debt pales into insignificance if you don't land a reasonable paying job soon after training.
There is the element, as you say, that once you've got the license via the modular route then you're on your own usually (noting of course that many people have had similar experiences with integrated schools). And then you have the perception - whether or not its right - from (largely jet) airlines, that says integrated training is the only way.
All of which conspires to make what should be a very attractive course/route to look less desirable and seem more risky.
And while I would love to go down the modular route, and I still may do, the possiblity that it might lead to less job opportunities and more risk means I find myself erring towards an integrated course.
Its something I've definitely pondered over a lot and will probably keep wondering about it for a while to come I guess!
Usual disclaimer: That's a very general view, there are of course a number who won't fit with that. Not everyone has the choice of getting a big enough loan to cover an integrated course, not everyone wants to jump into a jet first thing, others may simply disagree on the principle that the system has produced such a lopsided situation and not wish to conform to it.
The truth is there is a discrepancy between the prices for modular compared to integrated for what esentially, no, actually is the same license. Anyone should look at those numbers and wonder why even consider integrated training at such a cost.
But at the end of the day its the employment opportunities afterwards that dictates things the most for people. In many peoples minds, whether you're £35K in debt or £75K in debt pales into insignificance if you don't land a reasonable paying job soon after training.
There is the element, as you say, that once you've got the license via the modular route then you're on your own usually (noting of course that many people have had similar experiences with integrated schools). And then you have the perception - whether or not its right - from (largely jet) airlines, that says integrated training is the only way.
All of which conspires to make what should be a very attractive course/route to look less desirable and seem more risky.
And while I would love to go down the modular route, and I still may do, the possiblity that it might lead to less job opportunities and more risk means I find myself erring towards an integrated course.
Its something I've definitely pondered over a lot and will probably keep wondering about it for a while to come I guess!
Usual disclaimer: That's a very general view, there are of course a number who won't fit with that. Not everyone has the choice of getting a big enough loan to cover an integrated course, not everyone wants to jump into a jet first thing, others may simply disagree on the principle that the system has produced such a lopsided situation and not wish to conform to it.
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Theres no more risk in doing it modular than there is integrated. I was mod and my first job was jets. Whethere I was lucky, timed it right, struck a chord with my cv/application I dont know but it worked.
Integrated may well give you a contact, but chances are they'll only help for 6 mnths or a year, as I understand from friends who went integrated. Even then its up to YOU to get through the interviews and selection processes.
In my humble opinion the most important thing is to go to a school(s) that you feel comfortable and will get good marks in exams and first time passes, then shout about it on your CV. From speaking to a recruiter in my airline theres no hard fast way "...if a CV looks right then they'll get an interview...".
Integrated or modular with low average and 2nd time passes and no other interests may get passed over. Integrated or modualar with high average marks and first time passes, volunteering with the local Ar training corps, travel a good education etc will give you a better chance.
Train where you feel comfortable, and enjoy it.
Integrated may well give you a contact, but chances are they'll only help for 6 mnths or a year, as I understand from friends who went integrated. Even then its up to YOU to get through the interviews and selection processes.
In my humble opinion the most important thing is to go to a school(s) that you feel comfortable and will get good marks in exams and first time passes, then shout about it on your CV. From speaking to a recruiter in my airline theres no hard fast way "...if a CV looks right then they'll get an interview...".
Integrated or modular with low average and 2nd time passes and no other interests may get passed over. Integrated or modualar with high average marks and first time passes, volunteering with the local Ar training corps, travel a good education etc will give you a better chance.
Train where you feel comfortable, and enjoy it.
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Sicky,
I went modular and landed a jet job eventually. One thing I noticed though is I was looked over by certain airlines time and again (even with high ranking inside contacts in some cases) whilst a steady stream of integrated students picked up interviews.
I think an intergrated course DOES give you the edge when it comes to employment but it's up to you whether it's worth the cost. I just couldn't justify it or afford it! To be honest I'm amazed how many people can raise this amount of money.
Good luck to all of you, persistence is the key.
Tim
I went modular and landed a jet job eventually. One thing I noticed though is I was looked over by certain airlines time and again (even with high ranking inside contacts in some cases) whilst a steady stream of integrated students picked up interviews.
I think an intergrated course DOES give you the edge when it comes to employment but it's up to you whether it's worth the cost. I just couldn't justify it or afford it! To be honest I'm amazed how many people can raise this amount of money.
Good luck to all of you, persistence is the key.
Tim
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Im now at that stage where im begining to decide which route to take and im soooo stuck!!!
I think 60k is far too much money but at the same time modular will build up ridiculosy high too considering the hidden costs, given the choice i would go integrated but its just the money factor and the only reason i would go integrated is its short and you are considered more for employment which is the most important thing.
I think 60k is far too much money but at the same time modular will build up ridiculosy high too considering the hidden costs, given the choice i would go integrated but its just the money factor and the only reason i would go integrated is its short and you are considered more for employment which is the most important thing.
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If other people have taken the modular route and subsequently got jobs then why can't you. Yes Integrated gives you the 'extra bonus' points but at what expense. That degree of expense is for some people a gamble not a cost, look at your personal circumstances ... realistically.
Modular students can probably afford to wait a little longer for a job and then once employed quickly pay off the debt. How many years will it take once you have a job to pay the integrated £60-100K off? Don't throw your life away just because some FTO says so.
Sure, listen to the sales pitch and visit the schools but also ask yourself why can't I devise a plan for myself too? Of course you can plan your post training, when, where and how much, etc......
There's a good reason why banks don't lend money out to wannabes for these course prices .....
Modular students can probably afford to wait a little longer for a job and then once employed quickly pay off the debt. How many years will it take once you have a job to pay the integrated £60-100K off? Don't throw your life away just because some FTO says so.
Sure, listen to the sales pitch and visit the schools but also ask yourself why can't I devise a plan for myself too? Of course you can plan your post training, when, where and how much, etc......
There's a good reason why banks don't lend money out to wannabes for these course prices .....
Last edited by boogie-nicey; 17th Jul 2006 at 09:46.
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I'm just stumped really. I have this real gut feeling, that integrated is the only real way for me. Justifying this is another matter!
I'm trying to keep as many options open for as long as possible, it just seems that there's so much for and against any option that is out there.
I don't know myself whether i can even finance integrated. I've applied for Jerez, and their GB Airways scheme, so need to go over and sit the aptitude tests.
Everyone who has replied to my eariler post seems to understand where i'm coming from. It's weird, it's as if the financial risk with Int. is huge if you don't get a job, but you're less likely to find a decent opening with the mod. course, so may struggle to pay it back, although i imagine the repayments are much more managable.
I'm still trying to put my finger on exactly what it is that is getting to me about this!!
I'm trying to keep as many options open for as long as possible, it just seems that there's so much for and against any option that is out there.
I don't know myself whether i can even finance integrated. I've applied for Jerez, and their GB Airways scheme, so need to go over and sit the aptitude tests.
Everyone who has replied to my eariler post seems to understand where i'm coming from. It's weird, it's as if the financial risk with Int. is huge if you don't get a job, but you're less likely to find a decent opening with the mod. course, so may struggle to pay it back, although i imagine the repayments are much more managable.
I'm still trying to put my finger on exactly what it is that is getting to me about this!!
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what are the minimum requirements
hi i was wondering if anyone could tell me what are the minimum requirements to go from zero to fATPL JAA licence including the maximum time to get the licence and the min amount of hours to ger the different parts of the licence eg me and ir. or does anyone have any useful links for me. also do you recommend integrated or modular training. what are the pros and cons of both. what do you think of ignatia in greece. cheap taraining..
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Have a look at http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649
Have a look at the Flying In Ireland Forums at www.flyinginireland.com/forum
Use the search function
Have a look at the Flying In Ireland Forums at www.flyinginireland.com/forum
Use the search function
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
minimum requirements to go from zero to fATPL JAA licence
I'm not sure what you mean. fATPL = CPL, MEIR, MCC and JAA Class I medical.
maximum time to get the licence
It really takes as long as it takes, depends on the candidate the weather, the school, etc.
Minimum time? - I imagine about twelve months if you are very lucky
min amount of hours to ger the different parts of the licence
For modular you need 150TT and 100PIC to start your CPL course I think. In the UK at least course content (ie. sim/aircraft split) is agreed between the FTO and the CAA.
do you recommend integrated or modular training.what are the pros and cons of both.
This topic has been covered ad nauseam on other threads. I suggest you use the search function.
SR
I'm not sure what you mean. fATPL = CPL, MEIR, MCC and JAA Class I medical.
maximum time to get the licence
It really takes as long as it takes, depends on the candidate the weather, the school, etc.
Minimum time? - I imagine about twelve months if you are very lucky
min amount of hours to ger the different parts of the licence
For modular you need 150TT and 100PIC to start your CPL course I think. In the UK at least course content (ie. sim/aircraft split) is agreed between the FTO and the CAA.
do you recommend integrated or modular training.what are the pros and cons of both.
This topic has been covered ad nauseam on other threads. I suggest you use the search function.
SR
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To start your CPL training, the JAA require 150 hours total time including 5 hours night(3 dual,minimum 1 hour dual Nav,and 5 T/Off-Landings Full stop).
You will also need to have your 9 CPL or 14 ATPL exam passes.
Prior to Licence application you will need 100 hours pic, and Total time of 180 hours if you do an approved modular course of training.
I hope this helps you, in your quest to look out of the window for a living.
The Chief Pilot
You will also need to have your 9 CPL or 14 ATPL exam passes.
Prior to Licence application you will need 100 hours pic, and Total time of 180 hours if you do an approved modular course of training.
I hope this helps you, in your quest to look out of the window for a living.
The Chief Pilot
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im currently doing my PPL at the moment and love every second of it. should i continue to spend what little money i have on lessons or save it for an integrated course? also 100K i thought it was like 60K?
Hovering AND talking
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Or continue with your PPL and continue through a modular course giving you chance to work and save in between.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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100K I thought it was like 60K?
) and ground exams (£60 each), Approach Fees, Landing fees and of course accommodation all add to the cost of the course.As for going Integrated or Modular... There are Pros and Cons of both. You need to work out what is best for YOU and don’t get taken in by marketing hype. If your going to go Integrated, there’s no point in finishing your PPL as the discount you get is very small and sort of undermines the point of the course anyway.
Good Luck
