The never-ending 'Modular vs. Integrated' debate - merged ad nauseam
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Whether his facts are true or not, I personally know that the modular route still works, but might take a little longer.
I know for a fact that you’re enjoying this post, sitting with your feet up on the desk with your hands behind your head laughing. What you’ve actually done is make yourself look very big headed and stupid.
Referring to your "Superior" title, modular students still end up flying a jet, it still works, even if it takes a bit longer; I tend to look at it being the more sensible route.
Question, how did YOU finance your Integrated course?
I am aware that modular students might have to obtain either an Instructor job or a low paid flying job for a few years before they see the sight of a shiney jet.
..but then again, I know of people who have known others, who did modular and within a few months have found a doorway into the industry, or even through CTC …
I am aware of the risks involved with flight training, that’s why a lot of us have “back-up” jobs, to still bring in the cash.
Did your modular friends buy type ratings, as their personal circumstances might be a tad different then – this is something I’m taking into account and allowing for?
I agree Integrated is the way to go, but not all have that option due to their personal circumstances (at the moment). Just because one might have money doesn’t make them a better person, the fact is modular people do “eventually” find work.
Personally I would do modular, instead of putting all my money on an Integrated course.
Just to throw a spanner in the works, I also have heard of Integrated students not finding work! lol
For someone who pays less, expects to find it more of a challenge,.. but hey, I think modular students are use to that already with the challenge of financing it, so a lower paid job, gaining flying hours and then a jet job is one of those things to be expected.
Modular people have to ask themselves:
Who do you know in the industry?
What are you like as a person/personality/character?
Do you have a type rating?
Was your training consistent?
…the rest comes down to luck and being in the right place at the right time.
Welcome to the world of aviation, tell me something I didn't know.
I know for a fact that you’re enjoying this post, sitting with your feet up on the desk with your hands behind your head laughing. What you’ve actually done is make yourself look very big headed and stupid.
Referring to your "Superior" title, modular students still end up flying a jet, it still works, even if it takes a bit longer; I tend to look at it being the more sensible route.
Question, how did YOU finance your Integrated course?
I am aware that modular students might have to obtain either an Instructor job or a low paid flying job for a few years before they see the sight of a shiney jet.
..but then again, I know of people who have known others, who did modular and within a few months have found a doorway into the industry, or even through CTC …
I am aware of the risks involved with flight training, that’s why a lot of us have “back-up” jobs, to still bring in the cash.
Did your modular friends buy type ratings, as their personal circumstances might be a tad different then – this is something I’m taking into account and allowing for?
I agree Integrated is the way to go, but not all have that option due to their personal circumstances (at the moment). Just because one might have money doesn’t make them a better person, the fact is modular people do “eventually” find work.
Personally I would do modular, instead of putting all my money on an Integrated course.
Just to throw a spanner in the works, I also have heard of Integrated students not finding work! lol
For someone who pays less, expects to find it more of a challenge,.. but hey, I think modular students are use to that already with the challenge of financing it, so a lower paid job, gaining flying hours and then a jet job is one of those things to be expected.
Modular people have to ask themselves:
Who do you know in the industry?
What are you like as a person/personality/character?
Do you have a type rating?
Was your training consistent?
…the rest comes down to luck and being in the right place at the right time.
Welcome to the world of aviation, tell me something I didn't know.
Last edited by Cirrus_Clouds; 28th Mar 2007 at 20:08.
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please please 737800, do tell, who is this alarmingly tw4ttish character? I have never seen a thread erupt like this before.
If you dont feel compelled to name the individual, at least tell us what his glorious acheivements have been!
Regards
Rossco (Modular No Hoper)
If you dont feel compelled to name the individual, at least tell us what his glorious acheivements have been!
Regards
Rossco (Modular No Hoper)
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Oxford Prodigy
And who do you fly this big shiny jet for, please tell. I dare you.
I remortgaged my house that I was lucky to have equity in. I am lucky and still have equity in it. The thought of £750 a month re payments is unbelievable.
Got told by a Flybe Captain friend of mine that he often fly's with a guy that have £80,000 debt and earning around £25,000 a year with them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They will soon want to leave and get a better paying job. I think these turboprop operators will start thinking whether modular guys with less debt is the future.
I talk to lots of Captains in the industry and cadets like post number 1 are not going down too well.
As for modular integrated debate. I don't have a problem with either. There is a tendency that if some newly qualified pilot is a spoilt ****, chances are he's been given it on a plate one way or another.
I know quiet a lot of integrated guys that are sound blokes, so to paint everyone the same as knob head is a bit unfair.
The future is garlic bread.
I didn't go integrated and I haven't been to Jerez or Oxford.
Me, I was just a normal Modular sort of guy. I didn't get an instructors rating nor was I offered a job from Loganair or BA Connect. I didn't buy a type rating either.
I start my 737 rating next month
Age 39, 440 hours total.
And who do you fly this big shiny jet for, please tell. I dare you.
I have serveral friends that have recently finished Jerez and also Oxford. It seems these guys do get jobs. Ones now flying Loganair and the other BA Connect, however two are still looking for employment. One guy is 72K in debt including his student loan from university and he is struggling to meet loan repayments of £750 per month with no flying job to show for it!
Got told by a Flybe Captain friend of mine that he often fly's with a guy that have £80,000 debt and earning around £25,000 a year with them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They will soon want to leave and get a better paying job. I think these turboprop operators will start thinking whether modular guys with less debt is the future.
I talk to lots of Captains in the industry and cadets like post number 1 are not going down too well.
As for modular integrated debate. I don't have a problem with either. There is a tendency that if some newly qualified pilot is a spoilt ****, chances are he's been given it on a plate one way or another.
I know quiet a lot of integrated guys that are sound blokes, so to paint everyone the same as knob head is a bit unfair.
The future is garlic bread.
I didn't go integrated and I haven't been to Jerez or Oxford.
Me, I was just a normal Modular sort of guy. I didn't get an instructors rating nor was I offered a job from Loganair or BA Connect. I didn't buy a type rating either.
I start my 737 rating next month
Age 39, 440 hours total.
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We arnt in Debt......are you in DEBT??? 
Let me guess £50K at the least?????
Good luck in buying your first house. But first of all, buy yourself a life and then a winning pilot attitude.
Let me guess £50K at the least????? Good luck in buying your first house. But first of all, buy yourself a life and then a winning pilot attitude.
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Blinkz
You didn't read my post properly. I am not saying integrated pilots are the
pr1cks, i'm not saying mods are either. I just made the point that this particular pr1ck doesnt have a valid opinion yet! For what its worth, I know successful pilots from both camps and I don't have a strong opinion either way.
I just think people should be taught that in this business you EARN respect you don't demand it.
regards
You didn't read my post properly. I am not saying integrated pilots are the
pr1cks, i'm not saying mods are either. I just made the point that this particular pr1ck doesnt have a valid opinion yet! For what its worth, I know successful pilots from both camps and I don't have a strong opinion either way.
I just think people should be taught that in this business you EARN respect you don't demand it.
regards
I must be mad, however I'm going to wade into this one.
Firstly I'd like to say that I am a modular guy who has got a job through CTC’s ATP scheme and therefore I did not pay for a type rating.
The reaction to Oxford Prodigy’s post does seem a little over the top as I believe that there is merit in some of the things he/she says.
I chose the modular route as I had a large mortgage and there was no way that I could manage to pay the mortgage and the £70k training costs without any money coming in for a 9 months period. However I personally believe that the integrated schools have much better relationships with the airlines and that is the reason that integrated students get into shiny jets quicker than their modular counterparts. I don't think that there are many integrated students that are without work, however there will always be some integrated students that don't meet the airlines requirements in terms of either sim check or the interview.
It seems to me that it's much harder for modular people to get into the jet market. There are two ways that the majority of modular people get into shiny jets, 1)Gain experience with a low paid turboprop operator or 2)go through CTC. However most integrated students seem to get jobs with jet operators fairly quickly (note I said MOST not all).
I believe that the modular CPL/IR schools should be putting more effort into forging relationships with the airlines because I don't think that the airlines give a
if you're modular or integrated, they just don't want the hassle of selecting you when they could just go to Oxford, GECAT or CTC and say we need two pilots, please give us your best 2 students.
If I was single and without a mortgage I would have taken either the integrated or CTC route and I would suggest that anyone who can afford it takes one of these two routes if their desire is to get into a jet quickly.
Finally I think it is very naive of people to assume that everyone that takes the integrated route has had it paid for by mummy and daddy. There are many career changers who can easily afford to pay the Oxford price. There are others that take out a loan off of their own backs in order to fund their training.
Firstly I'd like to say that I am a modular guy who has got a job through CTC’s ATP scheme and therefore I did not pay for a type rating.
The reaction to Oxford Prodigy’s post does seem a little over the top as I believe that there is merit in some of the things he/she says.
I chose the modular route as I had a large mortgage and there was no way that I could manage to pay the mortgage and the £70k training costs without any money coming in for a 9 months period. However I personally believe that the integrated schools have much better relationships with the airlines and that is the reason that integrated students get into shiny jets quicker than their modular counterparts. I don't think that there are many integrated students that are without work, however there will always be some integrated students that don't meet the airlines requirements in terms of either sim check or the interview.
It seems to me that it's much harder for modular people to get into the jet market. There are two ways that the majority of modular people get into shiny jets, 1)Gain experience with a low paid turboprop operator or 2)go through CTC. However most integrated students seem to get jobs with jet operators fairly quickly (note I said MOST not all).
I believe that the modular CPL/IR schools should be putting more effort into forging relationships with the airlines because I don't think that the airlines give a
if you're modular or integrated, they just don't want the hassle of selecting you when they could just go to Oxford, GECAT or CTC and say we need two pilots, please give us your best 2 students.If I was single and without a mortgage I would have taken either the integrated or CTC route and I would suggest that anyone who can afford it takes one of these two routes if their desire is to get into a jet quickly.
Finally I think it is very naive of people to assume that everyone that takes the integrated route has had it paid for by mummy and daddy. There are many career changers who can easily afford to pay the Oxford price. There are others that take out a loan off of their own backs in order to fund their training.
Last edited by Sky Wave; 29th Mar 2007 at 10:04.
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I agree with FP_ACE. Maybe it depends of the country, but I am not even sure at all.
the french companies do not care if you are from integrated or modular course... and plus there are more modular pilot! so more modulars pilots in the cockpits.
the companies in general look for pilots with maturity, intellectual honnesty, serious and not just a young pilot with Ray Ban, Uniform. They look for a future captain, a future manager who knows when and how making decision.
the french companies do not care if you are from integrated or modular course... and plus there are more modular pilot! so more modulars pilots in the cockpits.
the companies in general look for pilots with maturity, intellectual honnesty, serious and not just a young pilot with Ray Ban, Uniform. They look for a future captain, a future manager who knows when and how making decision.
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Oxford Prodigy, you are by even the sound of your name a complete and utter ignorant arrogant fool. I am a modular, non oxford, minimum hour man who has just landed a jet job with a big airline out of LHR, type rating will be paid for and it proves there is no mod v int argument as it was all about perseverance. I trained at a little school at Bournemouth. Took me 5 months of looking and got it. It's people like you that put fear into people who start down the rocky road of training. Oxford, as good as they are, are just another school, and by going there proves nothing.
You are clearly a cock of the first order, and God help anyone who has to fly with you!!
You are clearly a cock of the first order, and God help anyone who has to fly with you!!
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This guy, in my opinion, is not even a pilot. After all, who goes through all their training, gets a job (allegedly) and THEN decides to join PPRuNe???
Most serious pilots are PPRuNe'ers from day one!
Oh, and just for the record, I know loads of guys who have recently been successful in getting "shiny jet jobs", and guess what? All modular!
Most serious pilots are PPRuNe'ers from day one!
Oh, and just for the record, I know loads of guys who have recently been successful in getting "shiny jet jobs", and guess what? All modular!
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Where's the idiot Troll hiding??
From my side:
1. I'm currently pursuing my CPL/IR/ATPL the modular way - as many people have already said in this and many other posts, there are benefits and drawbacks to either the Mod or Int approach. It does reassure me to hear from people less conceited/atagonistic that either way works - it all boils down to determination, hard work and keeping the faith!
2. Where has the silly person who started this post (Oxford Prodigy) disappeared to? If he was serious about his comments and NOT just seeking to provoke, then surely he would've replied to the feedback his post has received in due course?? Given he hasn't, it does seem that he has a chip on his shoulder or inferiority complex (maybe both!)...
3. The irony of it all (for me at least) is that I've learnt far more from other people's replies to his crappy post than from his original text!!
4. <Had to squeeze this in and please excuse the pun> If it's true about him being unable to hold his bowels at FL370 because of a bad curry... well, I think that's probably punishment enough!!
Best of luck to all respectable, hard-working and helpful pilots (mod & int, UK and the rest of the world) working towards their dream goal like moi!
FF
1. I'm currently pursuing my CPL/IR/ATPL the modular way - as many people have already said in this and many other posts, there are benefits and drawbacks to either the Mod or Int approach. It does reassure me to hear from people less conceited/atagonistic that either way works - it all boils down to determination, hard work and keeping the faith!
2. Where has the silly person who started this post (Oxford Prodigy) disappeared to? If he was serious about his comments and NOT just seeking to provoke, then surely he would've replied to the feedback his post has received in due course?? Given he hasn't, it does seem that he has a chip on his shoulder or inferiority complex (maybe both!)...
3. The irony of it all (for me at least) is that I've learnt far more from other people's replies to his crappy post than from his original text!!
4. <Had to squeeze this in and please excuse the pun> If it's true about him being unable to hold his bowels at FL370 because of a bad curry... well, I think that's probably punishment enough!!
Best of luck to all respectable, hard-working and helpful pilots (mod & int, UK and the rest of the world) working towards their dream goal like moi!
FF
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At the end of the day you have exactly the same tests with CAA examiners where you have to meet exactly the same standards. You finish with a blue book that has an equally cheap looking plastic cover no matter which blasted school you attend. Ok Oxford may put you forward for the odd interview, but you can do that yourself, all you need is a good CV and an equally suitable character (Ox Prodigy clearly has not). If you're a tool then you'll never get anywhere.
This debate in 2007 has no meaning. If you want to spend double for a course that does the same bloody thing then go for it, it's your choice and I don't really care, why would I when I have made it. The wonderful thing is that I possibly will be one of the few well off pilots of my generation, I have no debts and I'm bloody pleased with that. This fool is typical of some (not many) of the pilots in the world of aviation unfortunately and he clearly is a waste of space.
Whichever way you all chose, good luck, and anything can happen!
This debate in 2007 has no meaning. If you want to spend double for a course that does the same bloody thing then go for it, it's your choice and I don't really care, why would I when I have made it. The wonderful thing is that I possibly will be one of the few well off pilots of my generation, I have no debts and I'm bloody pleased with that. This fool is typical of some (not many) of the pilots in the world of aviation unfortunately and he clearly is a waste of space.
Whichever way you all chose, good luck, and anything can happen!
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Anyway, airlines know that the ir examiners a the integrated schools are notably tougher than at the little modular schools.
Oxford Prodigy, what a load of bull sh.t, this is the most stupid sentence that I have read on pprune in the last 5 years. Who told you that, I doubt if the Oxford flying instructors would have said that as many of them came from modular backgrounds.
Yes integrated guys gets the job's easier , but it is simply because , and I quote SFO J Monks, ''We can track their (integrated ) training records easier, we simply do not have the time to phone all the modular schools and ask them details about a applicant''
Oxford Prodigy, what a load of bull sh.t, this is the most stupid sentence that I have read on pprune in the last 5 years. Who told you that, I doubt if the Oxford flying instructors would have said that as many of them came from modular backgrounds.
Yes integrated guys gets the job's easier , but it is simply because , and I quote SFO J Monks, ''We can track their (integrated ) training records easier, we simply do not have the time to phone all the modular schools and ask them details about a applicant''
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Well done Sinbin
Well done on getting that jet job at LHR. I know from another thread you trained at BCFT which is where I am thinking of going.Would you comment on how you found the quality of the distance learning and flight training at BCFT?Did the interviewer for your jet job know of the school or was that irrelevant?Finally was doing all training with one school important to the airline or again was that not relevant to them? Thanks in advance.
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In a nutshell a Modular course is one you do, well, "modularly" or in separate "modules" at your own time, one after the other often in no particular hurry. The order is normally as follows:
An Integrated Course is marketed as full-time, usually full-board. The Integrated Course takes persons with no flying experience to fATPL level within 18 months. There are differences in the order of things that are taught. Also you do not need to pass the 7 exams associated with the PPL because in essence you never actually train to become a PPL holder. The training is delivered in a way which is determined to achieve the final goal of an fATPL license only. Passing 14 ATPL exams becomes a must requirement before ever setting foot on an aeroplane with some schools.
Some points:
The Modular course gives you the opportunity to taste flying as a PPL before committing to a flying career unlike an Integrated Course where you must be pretty damn sure this is what you want.
The Modular course can be done part-time (around work) and whilst living in your own home.
The Modular course allows you to train for the various "Modules" in your own time, when finance permits or allows you to 'shop around' for the best deal.
Achieving your fATPL the modular way will cost between £30-40k whilst minimising on lost earnings. An Integrated course, if you need to take out a loan, will cost £60k + 24k interest over 7 years + loss of earnings (£16k)...£100k if you factor in everything.
The truth about modular:
These days you can achieve your fATPL with the same school, achieving all the above mentioned licenses in quick succession, with no gaps, studying/training full-time within 12-18 months. The only way in which this differs from Integrated is the name (and a few deliberate differences). However Integrated training is big business and will remain that way due to the promise of employment support schools offer to Integrated graduates. And in truth this is what you pay for by doing an Integrated course. A job, at age 21 with Big Airways.
- PPL (including 7 exams)
- Night Rating
- A period of Distance or Residential Learning in order to pass 14 ATPL Theory exams.
- CPL
- ME
- IR
- MCC
An Integrated Course is marketed as full-time, usually full-board. The Integrated Course takes persons with no flying experience to fATPL level within 18 months. There are differences in the order of things that are taught. Also you do not need to pass the 7 exams associated with the PPL because in essence you never actually train to become a PPL holder. The training is delivered in a way which is determined to achieve the final goal of an fATPL license only. Passing 14 ATPL exams becomes a must requirement before ever setting foot on an aeroplane with some schools.
Some points:
The Modular course gives you the opportunity to taste flying as a PPL before committing to a flying career unlike an Integrated Course where you must be pretty damn sure this is what you want.
The Modular course can be done part-time (around work) and whilst living in your own home.
The Modular course allows you to train for the various "Modules" in your own time, when finance permits or allows you to 'shop around' for the best deal.
Achieving your fATPL the modular way will cost between £30-40k whilst minimising on lost earnings. An Integrated course, if you need to take out a loan, will cost £60k + 24k interest over 7 years + loss of earnings (£16k)...£100k if you factor in everything.
The truth about modular:
These days you can achieve your fATPL with the same school, achieving all the above mentioned licenses in quick succession, with no gaps, studying/training full-time within 12-18 months. The only way in which this differs from Integrated is the name (and a few deliberate differences). However Integrated training is big business and will remain that way due to the promise of employment support schools offer to Integrated graduates. And in truth this is what you pay for by doing an Integrated course. A job, at age 21 with Big Airways.
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Which is not usually true, the confirmed job that is...? I've heard of many Massey University aviation graduates that are currently jobless. Of course some have gotten jobs for the majors..but the majority is not where they thought they would be i am sure.
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Dont go anywhere near these integrated schools, its all hype and nonsense. Why pay 80-100 k when you can do it for 30!! Another anaolgy on it would be if you were offered car insurance with xxx company for £200 would you take out the exact same level of cover and insurance with a comany with a fancy name and lots of glossy brochures!! for £4000. Morale of the story, its the same product just some rip you off!!
My two pence!
My two pence!