The never-ending 'Modular vs. Integrated' debate - merged ad nauseam
Join Date: May 2001
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expedite08
don't knock it till you've tried it! you wouldn't believe it, you really wouldn't, but there are many, many advantages to going integrated! it may not have been the right choice for you, but for a lot of people, it is exactly the right one. courses at my place that finished 4 to 5 months ago are getting to around 20-22 graduates out of 25 into jet/airline t/p jobs, straight off, and that is becoming the average statistic.
spend 30 grand if you are happy to do flight instructing and any number of other jobs for what say 2 years before getting to a line, but if you want a good shot at going straight to an a320, 737 etc (and it isn't guaranteed - integrated students DO occasionally turn up as FI's etc), integrated is the way to go. that's from the horse's mouth (or several horses mouths). yes it is a lot of money, and yes it is even more of a risk than modular, but the jobs are out there if you have the right stuff, you do, however, unfortunately, have to have the money and ability to take a leap of faith. if you believe you can do it, then who's stopping you?
don't knock it till you've tried it! you wouldn't believe it, you really wouldn't, but there are many, many advantages to going integrated! it may not have been the right choice for you, but for a lot of people, it is exactly the right one. courses at my place that finished 4 to 5 months ago are getting to around 20-22 graduates out of 25 into jet/airline t/p jobs, straight off, and that is becoming the average statistic.
spend 30 grand if you are happy to do flight instructing and any number of other jobs for what say 2 years before getting to a line, but if you want a good shot at going straight to an a320, 737 etc (and it isn't guaranteed - integrated students DO occasionally turn up as FI's etc), integrated is the way to go. that's from the horse's mouth (or several horses mouths). yes it is a lot of money, and yes it is even more of a risk than modular, but the jobs are out there if you have the right stuff, you do, however, unfortunately, have to have the money and ability to take a leap of faith. if you believe you can do it, then who's stopping you?
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Go integrated if you can afford it - Jerez or Oxford, or indeed consider CTC and having the loan to your name, and at least you won't have to worry about buying a property in the future with the money.
If you can't afford it, go modular - it is commonly known that modulars are indeed successful, but the links that integrated schools have can ease a great deal of the pain in getting to the airline.
Not heard a good thing about Cabair in a while...
If you can't afford it, go modular - it is commonly known that modulars are indeed successful, but the links that integrated schools have can ease a great deal of the pain in getting to the airline.
Not heard a good thing about Cabair in a while...
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a38
no mate that's not what i'm saying, all i was suggesting was that, and you may disagree, that when you are a new ATPL holder, most people don't want to be a flying instructor - there are those that do, and as you said, they are the people who teach us guys how to do it, but i am not sure whether many people actually have a lifelong ambition to be an FI - again, i'm sure that there are those who do, but most, i would bet, want to end up flying fares for an airline. i have every intention of doing FI one day, however I want to do it when I have had my time doing airline work. again, there will be those who, and i know at least one person who does, want to have a career doing FI work.
it IS a good honest trade, and a taxing one, but unfortunately, and i don't find it particularly fair, it is not what most people aspire to - indeed, my experience of many, many atpl students, both integrated and modular, it has turned out to be the case. sad fact of life, it's a difficult trade because wages are low and a good job seems to be hard to get into. by the time most people have spent the substantial outlay on flying training, and both ways are particularly expensive, i would be surprised to find too many people who, when asked, say they aspire to many other things than airline work of some sort. i have my ambitions that are not big jets out of major airports, but as for most people, i intend to do that work once i have experienced life as an airline pilot, which you can't deny is what must be 90% of atpl holder's ambition.
just to reiterate, FI's do do an extremely good job, and without them, it seems pretty bleeding obvious that no one would be doing the flying thing, but i have to say that i have only very rarely met one who has had his ATPL for under 5 or 6 years, who is not handing his CV to airlines at every available opportunity. correct me if i'm wrong!
no mate that's not what i'm saying, all i was suggesting was that, and you may disagree, that when you are a new ATPL holder, most people don't want to be a flying instructor - there are those that do, and as you said, they are the people who teach us guys how to do it, but i am not sure whether many people actually have a lifelong ambition to be an FI - again, i'm sure that there are those who do, but most, i would bet, want to end up flying fares for an airline. i have every intention of doing FI one day, however I want to do it when I have had my time doing airline work. again, there will be those who, and i know at least one person who does, want to have a career doing FI work.
it IS a good honest trade, and a taxing one, but unfortunately, and i don't find it particularly fair, it is not what most people aspire to - indeed, my experience of many, many atpl students, both integrated and modular, it has turned out to be the case. sad fact of life, it's a difficult trade because wages are low and a good job seems to be hard to get into. by the time most people have spent the substantial outlay on flying training, and both ways are particularly expensive, i would be surprised to find too many people who, when asked, say they aspire to many other things than airline work of some sort. i have my ambitions that are not big jets out of major airports, but as for most people, i intend to do that work once i have experienced life as an airline pilot, which you can't deny is what must be 90% of atpl holder's ambition.
just to reiterate, FI's do do an extremely good job, and without them, it seems pretty bleeding obvious that no one would be doing the flying thing, but i have to say that i have only very rarely met one who has had his ATPL for under 5 or 6 years, who is not handing his CV to airlines at every available opportunity. correct me if i'm wrong!
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all in all , if you have the money and dream of the shiny jets go integrated
if you like more of a challenge in life, or ont have the money, or like to see other areas of the aviation world go modular.
I guess thats all thats being said on this thread as ive read every page now
Good luck to everyone
Samad
if you like more of a challenge in life, or ont have the money, or like to see other areas of the aviation world go modular.
I guess thats all thats being said on this thread as ive read every page now
Good luck to everyone
Samad
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My first post, so I'd just like to say very many thanks to the people that post; I'm just surfacing from a couple of weeks of intensive research and all the answers are in this forum....so my advice to any other newbies like me is don't bore the old timers with questions without reading this whole (!) forum first - it's great free easy info!!!! And get out and visit schools and ask questions.
My conclusions from the age old debate of Integrated v Modular research are:
Integrated is preferred by the airlines - they like the structure and commitment it represents. It's not 'if' you've got a fATPL, it's how you got it. Airlines like BA will ONLY consider integrated low-timers. BUT, if you're very, very careful, and structure your modular approach, using the same school, no big gaps of doing non-aviation stuff, no cutting corners, then you come in a very close second.
Costs - modular is cheaper, but not by as much as people first assume. Modular comes in at around £50K, Integrated £65K. Yea, yea, you can do it cheaper - but why would you want to take that risk?
Unfortunately, having said all that, I have to go Modular due to personal circumstances (poorly partner) preventing me spending long periods of time abroad.
Invest upfront (if you can, by whatever means), and save stress and disappointment later. Are those fair words? Even at 40, and scared stiff, I'm going for it. H*ll, you only live once, eh?
My conclusions from the age old debate of Integrated v Modular research are:
Integrated is preferred by the airlines - they like the structure and commitment it represents. It's not 'if' you've got a fATPL, it's how you got it. Airlines like BA will ONLY consider integrated low-timers. BUT, if you're very, very careful, and structure your modular approach, using the same school, no big gaps of doing non-aviation stuff, no cutting corners, then you come in a very close second.
Costs - modular is cheaper, but not by as much as people first assume. Modular comes in at around £50K, Integrated £65K. Yea, yea, you can do it cheaper - but why would you want to take that risk?
Unfortunately, having said all that, I have to go Modular due to personal circumstances (poorly partner) preventing me spending long periods of time abroad.
Invest upfront (if you can, by whatever means), and save stress and disappointment later. Are those fair words? Even at 40, and scared stiff, I'm going for it. H*ll, you only live once, eh?
You can quite realisitically complete the Modular courses for less than £45k.
Otherwise I agree with your general findings. Don't worry too much about Modular being second best - it is, but not half as much as people make out.
Good luck,
WWW
Otherwise I agree with your general findings. Don't worry too much about Modular being second best - it is, but not half as much as people make out.
Good luck,
WWW
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I dont think airlines prefer integrated, rather they prefer certain schools that provide intgrated students like oxford, cabair and FTE, I doubt they would give similar credit to students who have completed integrated courses at other FTOs eg Intercockpit, BFSAA, HubAir etc, so if you dont complete integrated at one of Oxford, CCAT, FTE your in the same boat as every one else regardless if you did integrated or modular. my 2 cents.
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Hmm...
Sorry to bump this topic, but i was wondering about one of the modular courses in my area. MultiFlight, near Leeds. From what i have heard it is a brilliant course, but im not sure what people say about it, so if anyone has been and seen it, then give us a shout! Also, how about costs, if you have done the course tell us how much it costed you
Chris.
Sorry to bump this topic, but i was wondering about one of the modular courses in my area. MultiFlight, near Leeds. From what i have heard it is a brilliant course, but im not sure what people say about it, so if anyone has been and seen it, then give us a shout! Also, how about costs, if you have done the course tell us how much it costed you
Chris.
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Re-Heat,
Last time I looked at the CAA list, only Cabair, FTE and Oxford were on the list approved to provide Integrated ATPL training. CTC was on a list for Integrated CPL/IR training. I suspect the difference is due to CTC sub-contracting the ATPL theory to BGS. I tried to find the link, but the CAA website is not responding right now. They belong on the list of top schools, no matter what category their CAA approval falls in, as they provide good training and get great employment results, but this might explain why some people leave them off lists of Integrated ATPL providers.
Last time I looked at the CAA list, only Cabair, FTE and Oxford were on the list approved to provide Integrated ATPL training. CTC was on a list for Integrated CPL/IR training. I suspect the difference is due to CTC sub-contracting the ATPL theory to BGS. I tried to find the link, but the CAA website is not responding right now. They belong on the list of top schools, no matter what category their CAA approval falls in, as they provide good training and get great employment results, but this might explain why some people leave them off lists of Integrated ATPL providers.
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So, if i went modular, i would have an equal chance of employment than integrated, plus i would not have as much debt?
Is this true?
If not i think ill be off to Jerez!
Is this true?
If not i think ill be off to Jerez!
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There are 4 UK CAA Approved Integrated ATPL providers.
The Western Australian Aviation College has approvals for Integrated and Modular. Very cost effective, get to visit Australia and enjoy the nice weather.
The Western Australian Aviation College has approvals for Integrated and Modular. Very cost effective, get to visit Australia and enjoy the nice weather.
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Their are lots of non CAA Integrated courses out their as well, look into BFSAA, Intercockpit and CAE Global Academies, all provide integrated and you can get the course at a lower premium than CAA Aproved providers.
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hey there, i have got a question and was wondering what you guys think about it...
i am currently doing an modular course, trying to get my frozen atpl at a small flight school.
from what i have heard, employers prefer pilots that completed an integrated course.
the difference in my case is, that i already got a job in a cockpit as soon as i have got my license.
what i am now wondering about is, whether my modular license still is a disadvantage when i`ve got 1500-2000h of flight time and then search for a job? does the way you earned your licence still count then?
thx
i am currently doing an modular course, trying to get my frozen atpl at a small flight school.
from what i have heard, employers prefer pilots that completed an integrated course.
the difference in my case is, that i already got a job in a cockpit as soon as i have got my license.
what i am now wondering about is, whether my modular license still is a disadvantage when i`ve got 1500-2000h of flight time and then search for a job? does the way you earned your licence still count then?
thx
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The bottom line is if you can afford to do Integrated and want to take the financial risk and you have security, do Integrated - only you will face the payment consequences if you don't get a job at the end.
Modular can be done either full or part time, costs less, the risk factor to the student is less, whilst there are pilots I know have gone onto Airline training shortly after completing their modular training.
Some airlines prefer Integrated, others are not bothered (spoken to a few) - but at the end of the day, companies want experience and not fresh blood.
As long as you get on with the training generally, only you are in control of your destiny and with being in the right place at the right time, a bit of luck and knowing a few contacts, many things could happen.
Airline sponsorship is few and far between so in regards to paying for flight training, only you as the pilot bear this risk, they have none what so ever. Airlines can "cherry pick" when they wish, regardless of how many pilots are being trained or how they trained.
I'm personally sticking with modular, I prefer not going down the route of a possible bankcrupt position if things don't work out, but your choice!
Modular can be done either full or part time, costs less, the risk factor to the student is less, whilst there are pilots I know have gone onto Airline training shortly after completing their modular training.
Some airlines prefer Integrated, others are not bothered (spoken to a few) - but at the end of the day, companies want experience and not fresh blood.
As long as you get on with the training generally, only you are in control of your destiny and with being in the right place at the right time, a bit of luck and knowing a few contacts, many things could happen.
Airline sponsorship is few and far between so in regards to paying for flight training, only you as the pilot bear this risk, they have none what so ever. Airlines can "cherry pick" when they wish, regardless of how many pilots are being trained or how they trained.
I'm personally sticking with modular, I prefer not going down the route of a possible bankcrupt position if things don't work out, but your choice!
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Me
I was a Modular guy
6 years to complete
£45,000 the cost
Flying the 737s now and had 440 hours when I got the job aged 39.
If you have got the cash, go integrated and get it done.
If not, just do what ever you can.
You will have the same blue book at the end. Its up to you to get the job.
I was a Modular guy
6 years to complete
£45,000 the cost
Flying the 737s now and had 440 hours when I got the job aged 39.
If you have got the cash, go integrated and get it done.
If not, just do what ever you can.
You will have the same blue book at the end. Its up to you to get the job.
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Hello everyone, hopefully someone might be able to comment on my post. We are all aware that intergrated courses are expensive and that the vast majority of students on these courses have financial assistance from banks lending anything from 60,000 euro upwards. Below is a modular route that I just created in 2 minutes ( I am not saying this is the route I wish to take or that this is the modular route for me) which may or may not be any good but I'll give it a whirl anyways, all prices in euro also. OBA PPL= 5872, Hourbuild with OBA for 100hrs= 9744, Fulltime atpl with OAT 6,000, Cpl with Pilot Training College Waterford 9,000 and MEIR with them 4,000. Finally an MCC with Parc in Dublin 5,000.This gives a total of 39,616. After all that here's my question if you approached a financial organisation with this plan would they be more reluctant to lend money to you than say an intergrated student? Also do many modular guys have a full set plan before they embark on their training of where they want to do the different modules and take out a big loan or is it simply pay as you go for the majority of modular guys.
Thanks for your time.
Thanks for your time.
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flyasthesky, if you are thinking about PTC in Waterford, it might be worth having a chat with them 1st, I think they have an agreement in place for financing a course through themselves, using AIB. Not sure how it works on your side of the Irish sea, but banks are not lending for commercial training over here, unless you go to OAT, CTC or Cabair, who again have deals in place with banks.
Also the figure you have come up with sounds good, but from experiance you can add a fair bit more, by the time you have taken into consideration, accomodation, exam fees, A/C hire for tests, flight test fees, feeding yourself, etc etc, believe me it soon adds up..
Also the figure you have come up with sounds good, but from experiance you can add a fair bit more, by the time you have taken into consideration, accomodation, exam fees, A/C hire for tests, flight test fees, feeding yourself, etc etc, believe me it soon adds up..