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-   -   Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads.html)

Planemike 8th Sep 2016 11:10


I think there is a lot of jealousy here
1. Tracey is female
2. she is attractive
3. she is successful
4. she is personable
Why don't you all just get on with life and stop knocking others?
You could also add......
5. Deceptive
6. Untruthful

squashbug, It is not a matter of jealousy, envy or misogyny just a desire to see the facts presented in a straight forward manner. I have the feeling you have not followed the commentary on the situation surrounding TC-Ts claims...... If her claims are allowed to go unchallenged it debases all the truthful claims from dozens of other pilots who have achieved a great deal. There are many names quoted in this thread. Their endeavours have been truthfully presented and where they have received help they readily acknowledge it.......

I was not going to quote an example but have changed my mind because I have briefly met the person concerned, Johan Wiklund. In case you are unaware he is a Swedish pilot who has flown SOLO, unsupported, from North Cape to Cape Town. I and a group of others chatted to him when he visited Old Warden for the Moth Club meet. He was very approachable and answered questions in a very direct, straight forward way. No smart PR just a likeable guy talking about his experiences. Certainly, no "off limits" questions.....

megan 8th Sep 2016 12:16

I think there is a lot of jealousy here - None whatsoever
1. Tracey is female - Yes
2. she is attractive - No, reminds me of a horse
3. she is successful - Yes, in conning people into her orbit
4. she is personable - Has to be to get away with the lies she tells to the gullible, or are the gullible she has sucked in just that damn stupid.

Why don't you all just get on with life and stop knocking others? - A segment of the community are not impressed with liers, no matter who they are. Are you suggesting that we should stoop to this ladies (I use the term advisedly) level of obfuscation and plain lying about her achievements? We Sir, are better than that.

Two friends flew a light aircraft around the world in the early '70's and broke a speed record for the circumnavigation (a real circumnavigation, not TCT's lie of a circumnavigation). Did they receive recognition? Only by way of a entry in the FAI books. That's how REAL people conduct their affairs.

As has been said by others, she has done nothing for the cause of aviation, except to bring it in disrepute. The female pilots in my family are absolutely disgusted at both her claims, and the apparent use of her sex to advance her aims, which are best described as tawdry.

9 lives 8th Sep 2016 12:31


but in this case, certain groups jumped hysterically. Forgive them, they not know what they do.
Ah, but no - it is their self appointed job to know what they do! The HCAP and LAA are supposed to represent aviation expertise, and they have considerable resources upon which to draw to get it right objectively. If they did not know what they were doing when the cutlery was set out at dinner, we can forgive that, they are not the dinner protocol organizations, but they are the piloting organizations, and responsible to those who look up to them to get piloting awards right!


I think there is a lot of jealousy here
1. Tracey is female
2. she is attractive
3. she is successful
4. she is personable
I do not accept this. Personally, I'm not the least jealous of TCT, As a pilot, I am embarrassed by her behaviour. Who she is as a person is now irrelevant, it is what she has done, and worse not done!

I have followed this thread since the beginning, and read every post. In reading all those posts:

1. I have no recollection of any posts which attack TCT's gender directly, though I recall many posts which support and defend female pilots in general. The gender of posters is generally not known, so it must be assumed that male pilots are defending female pilots on their posts - I have. It is TCT who has wrapped herself in the gender banner, not posters here.

2. Attractive is subject to personal opinion, and likely gender of the observer, and not relevant here. I have no recollection of a post which draws in this consideration.

3. Successful is very relative to expectations and society's norms. Buy, now that you have brought it up: By my personal measure, getting dressed up and appearing in photographs is not a measure of success, destroying two aircraft during one venture is not something to aspire to, and if personal honesty is a measure of success, TCT has done poorly there too.

4. Personable, I suppose so, I really don't know. But if TCT is posing for photos and accepting accolades not deserved, that's not a kind of personable which has any importance to me.

TCT has had ample time and awareness, and probably lots of honourable mentoring, to step back from her public presentation of deceit, apologize, and ask that awards be redirected to truly deserving pilots. It appears she has not done so. In this lack of honourable behaviour, she has brought shame upon herself, and put several organizations in a really awkward position. In my opinion, successful, personable people of honour do not do that! TCT has let down pilots based upon her behaviour, other factors are not relevant.

For myself, I'm hardly jealous of TCT, jealousy too, for those who might experience it, is relative to one's own expectations in life. When I see the personal honour which TCT has forsaken to "get where she is", I am far from jealous of her!

sunday driver 8th Sep 2016 12:46

I fully understand that this was never planned as a record attempt. But TCT's team made assertions up front about intentions and they declare that these intentions have been fulfilled.
I wonder how an independant adjudicator would assess their actual performance against the initial objectives, if this had been a record attempt?
This project could easily have been positioned as a heart-breaking failure in the face of immense personal and practical strife, and we might all be applauding and supportive.
The public speaking would still be there; the book (heaven help us!) would still be a best seller; the TV show would still attract millions.
Maybe she has just been very badly advised by her team, and it's they who should be exposed, and not her.
Or maybe she really is in the driving seat?
SD

maxred 8th Sep 2016 13:01

Step, thank you, but it was made tongue in cheek, and with slight irony......squash bug I assume you are an adolescent, and therefore a bit unfair to engage with you

9 lives 8th Sep 2016 13:58


Maybe she has just been very badly advised by her team, and it's they who should be exposed, and not her.
So expose the "team" too. But TCT is not excused from knowing a lie when she repeatedly states it.


but it was made tongue in cheek, and with slight irony......squash bug I assume you are an adolescent, and therefore a bit unfair to engage with you
Maybe, until mature words like

misogyny
are used on the post - that's serious talk!

Stanwell 8th Sep 2016 15:10

OK, StepTurn.
You want the name of a member of the 'team'?
Tim Kelly.

On his LinkedIn profile, he describes himself as:
"Independent and flexible consultant providing strategic support for agencies and stakeholders engaged in global sponsorship activities,
with a particular focus on sport/adventure properties."

Amongst his 'Ongoing Projects' he lists...
"May 2008 - Present: Management of sponsorship strategy and sponsorship media relations for Artemis Investment Management:
- Advising senior management on sponsorship rationale, activation and integration.
- Ensuring viability and media returns" ... et cetera.

And then we have...
"April 2015 - Present: Consultant for Aviator Tracey Curtis-Taylor, managing PR, marketing, communications and sponsor relationships
for Great Britain to Australia flight."

This gentleman can be seen standing unconcernedly in the background, inside Sydney's Execujet hangar, while the Australian Women Pilots
Association are presenting TCT with their Honourary Membership in recognition of her Solo Flight.


Jay Sata, I wonder if you could post that photo again?

Jonzarno 8th Sep 2016 15:15

As I posted earlier: it seems remarkable that Ms Curtis-Taylor is unwilling to answer questions about this on the record.

I know nothing of her exploits, alleged or otherwise, than what I have read here; and it seems to me that this whole argument could be solved by her asking to be interviewed, on the record, by a competent and trusted interviewer.

Jeremy Paxman perhaps? :8 :sad:

Sam Rutherford 8th Sep 2016 15:46

@clareprop

The 'operations' link isn't working any more - but I'm sure that's just coincidence...

Or, surely not, Tim Kelly's got the brush and whitewash out again for another quick fix...?

Sorry, I forgot, of course they have no idea about this thread because otherwise they'd have explained on here how we all have it so wrong. There couldn't possibly be a link!

clareprop 8th Sep 2016 16:37


@clarepropThe 'operations' link isn't working any more - but I'm sure that's just coincidence...
Sam, didn't you just know that was going to happen...

A little message to whoever deleted the website link (as you're obviously reading this thread), you're wasting your time. This is the internet. If you tell a lie, it stays for ever...fourth para down...

Tracey Curtis Taylor - Aviatrix, Adventurer, Inspirational Speaker

Whoever you are, it's likely you aren't a pilot so let me take five minutes to give you my thoughts on why people here are so angry.

Although our training is not so intense (nowhere near in fact), as say for example, the Paras, the Royal Marines or special forces, we take achievement very seriously. The aforementioned troops reserve their most basic repugnance for sad characters called 'Walt's' (after Walter Mitty) who pretend to have been part of their fold to impress others. To pilots, going solo is one of the most fundamental steps in aviation. It's not just the first solo but the first solo circuits, night flights, instrument flights or navigation flights. We set the term 'solo' as a proud standard - it means something to all of us and each can relate to another pilot who has achieved the same. To call yourself a long distance solo pilot using basic navigation is something to be admired and praised - much like a solo Atlantic or Pacific sailor - it is an incredible adventure which is honoured by your peers. However, to say you will do this or worse, to say you have done it, as an attempt to deceive brings out the same emotions as felt by the soldier who has trained so hard. It's cheating, pure and simple. It's cheating every nervous 10 hour pilot on his or her first solo, every quaking first cross-country navigator but most of all, it cheats those who have gone before and really put their lives on the line to push the boundaries.
Do the decent thing and tell the truth.

Sam Rutherford 8th Sep 2016 16:45

Beautifully put. Perfect.

deefer dog 8th Sep 2016 17:08

clareprop;

Exquisitely put!

I'm really heartened to see that the expose of TCT and here carelessness with the truth is gathering momentum. We must keep the pressure up....this really is a story that needs to be told to a much wider audience and I am sure it won't be long before Tracey is forced to answer some really tricky questions. Hopefully her days of hiding silently are numbered.

wiggy 8th Sep 2016 17:33


Originally Posted by squashbug (Post 9500803)
of course, envy and misogyny don't come into it!

As an onlooker/lurker I did wonder how long it would take for the last resort defence of misogyny, sexism etc to be wheeled out in TCT's defence.

I guess it won't be long before she's being portrayed by some in the media ( probably starting with the UK's Guardian newspaper) as a "feminist hero who is the victim of a smear campaign run by dinosaurs."

Mike Flynn 8th Sep 2016 17:37

Stanwell asked if I could post the picture again of the Australia Women Pilot Association presentation of an honorary membership to TCT on her arrival in Sydney.

It is below but there is nothing honourable about her accepting it.
To use that quote from Barry Tempest again..

Your claimed exploits have put the cause of Women in Aviation back 40 years. If you accept the HCAP award in the autumn you should be ashamed."
The guy hovering in the background right of TCT is Tim Kelly who fooled the worlds media in to thinking
it was a solo flight. Ewald Gritsch has disappeared from the chauffers seat in the front of the Stearman and was probabaly organising getting her bags to the five star hotel.

It remains to be seen if the AWPA are happy to be part of this sham.

Here is their presidents email to me

I was unaware of these accusations and will investigate it further.

Thank you very much for bringing it to our attention.

Kind regards,

Carol Dehn

http://www.16right.com/Aircraft-Imag...160109-001.jpg

surely not 8th Sep 2016 17:57

Having read through the comments on here, and also read some of the articles in aviation magazines about her exploits it strikes me that what she has done is similar to a competent tennis player being acclaimed as a Wimbledon singles champion whilst having had a partner helping on court in all matches.

Obviously so many people watching Wimbledon makes that impossible, but because you generally only have invited guests to witness departures from airfields for such events as TC-Ts flights it is easier to pass an untruth off as fact.

Did the co-pilot bend down to be out of sight for any photos on departure? That is an act that makes them an accessory to the deception isn't it?

Whilst the main complaint is against the figurehead, there are others involved who are just as guilty by their silence.

To my mind by their refusal to state clearly that the flights were NOT solo, they risk cheapening the memory of the very aviators they are claiming to honour.

Mike Flynn 8th Sep 2016 18:00

What makes matters worse is the complicity of some of the committee members
of the Honourable Company of of Air Pilots who despite cast iron evidence that this was not a solo flight are determined to give her a Masters Medal.

I understand from private messages to me there are quite a few at HCAP who are unhappy with the way this is being handled.

Once the original letter from Chris Ford became public on this forum they backtracked and tried to justify her award on the basis of 'outreach and organising the sponsorship' of the so called expedition.

strake 8th Sep 2016 18:21

Clareprop.

Thanks. You've said what I wanted to say but couldn't put into words :D

G-KEST 8th Sep 2016 18:52

I hope to put forward a motion at the LAA AGM and will need a seconder who is a member and beneficial shareholder of the LAA. Any volunteers.....???

I wish to propose a motion for the AGM however since it does not affect either the Memorandum or Articles of Association it might not need the full 42 days notice otherwise required.

It concerns the proposed award of the Bill Woodhams Trophy to Tracey Curtis-Taylor in respect of flights from South Africa and to Australia. Her assertions that these were conducted as sole occupant of her Stearman have been comprehensively demolished since she was seemingly accompanied by a highly experienced pilot and instructor. In no way was this an exceptional feat of navigation in the traditions of female aviators, still less in an LAA type aircraft. It was however a carefully orchestrated PR campaign for Artemis to benefit that company.

In my considered opinion the award of this trophy by the LAA would bring our organisation into disrepute. I urge the Association to reconsider its decision.

If a specific form exists for motions then I would much appreciate your sending it to me.

Kind regards,

Barry Tempest FRAeS
LAA membership number 017423

Mike Flynn 8th Sep 2016 20:20

LAA and Tracey Curtis Taylor
 
The LAA were used by Tracey Curtis Taylor for her own vanity.

This is a classic example of genuine honest organisations being sucked in to a
PR campaign to promote the sponsors Artemis Investments.

Tracey Curtis Taylor is about as far removed from the genuine spanner and wood glue LAA members as Venus is from Mars.

Barry Tempest and Chris Martyr are brave souls doing the right thing for the organisation.
I admire Chris for his integrity on behalf of the LAA.

I have to say that this is the first time in 25 years of membership that I have actually felt that our organisation is looking after the interests of certain other parties in preference to those of it's members and I'm afraid it stinks !
I am not going to say too much more on this though until I have heard from Sam Rutherford [check your e-mail Sam}
All I will say though at this stage is ; How much more embarrassment do you want to lead our organisation through. The GA press/media is alight from all angles with this issue.

Don't just stand by and watch . It isn't Rome that's burning,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,It's the LAA !
source View topic - Tracey Curtis-Taylor | Light Aircraft Association
I find it rather sad that the Chief Execitive of the LAA ,who is paid from members
contributions,seems to be hiding under a stone on this controversial topic.

So much for leadership:ok:

B Fraser 8th Sep 2016 20:28

Do my eyes deceive me or does that certificate clearly say "solo" ? Did T C-T ever point out the error or did she ride the wave of adulation ? I think we know.


What are the wings on her flying suit ? It would not surprise me if they were submariners dolphins given the level of "waltness" that we have seen so far. As has already been said, "The Spirit Of Artifice".


Certificates really ought to be hung in a place of utmost prestige, the downstairs loo. I say that mine are the most valuable paper in the room but only just. A good mate has a Bafta in his. Inverse snobbery at the very best.


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