The Old Fat One

If it was a correctly authorised (or whatever the civilian term is) planned and briefed trip, flown by a competent, qualified and current crew (pilot and photographer), within whatever aviation law pertains, in an airframe that is suitable for the task, then it looks like a whole lot of exciting fun and I'm jealous.

If it is just two numpties hacking round the fields no doubt the authorities and/or karma will bite their backsides soon enough...............

megan

Nothing that I would worry about personally. As Piltdown says, "This clip is pretty innocuous". F. Lee Bailey might take a different view though if a farmer was upset because a portion of his crop had been destroyed due to a force landing and ground contaminated with oil and lead from spillage. Have experience of crop land being subject to remedial work following an aircraft accident. Wasn't cheap.

PDR1

Unless you are a qualified medical practitioner with sufficient professional experience in the field, and have had the required access to TCT to have conducted proper diagnostic investigations I put it to you that this post is at best gratuitous speculation and borders on libel. I suggest you or the mods redact it in the interests of balance.

Complaining about TCT making unjustified claims and then in the same breath draw unsupported inferences is rather ironic.

PDR

[not a TCT supporter - just a founder member of the campaign against unseemly witch-hunts]

B70

"Unless you are a qualified medical practitioner with sufficient professional experience in the field........."

I am not a qualified medical practitioner; I was merely applying the principle of 'if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ..........'

I have edited out the portion that offends you but would add that I am, by no means, the first to have made that observation.

PDR1

Thanks - much appreciated.

PDR

Chesty Morgan

If we didn't does that mean that there weren't any?

pulse1

Much as I would like to see an honest conclusion to this saga, I think that this thread is becoming self defeating. When we start speculating on what may or may not be in a photograph we are just feeding those who wish to undermine the real value in the thread.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

Thanks for all the answers ref the video, and YES, it did look like it was real fun. It was a genuine question as I know the rules changed in 2005(?).
I like to have fun on a motorcycle (130+ is REAL fun) but PC Plod objects if I try it on a road where I should not.

Back on track again.

Reverserbucket

I have been reading the documents in the NTSB docket released following the Winslow incident. In the pilot submitted report she lists herself as holding an airplane, single-engine land flight instructor certificate but no commercial or instrument qualification (for those not familiar with FAA, a minimum of a Commercial Pilot Certificate and Instrument Rating is required to hold a flight instructor ticket). It looks as though the FAA involvement in this was at arms length (as was the NTSB's) however the reporting NTSB Investigator records the involvement of the Scottsdale FSDO (the local FAA regional office). I would have thought that this anomaly would have raised an eyebrow from the FAA inspector and would have lead to at least a question for clarification.

I appreciate that an attempt has been made to establish her NZ qualifications but does she believe she is an FAA Certified Flight Instructor or has this false entry in the NTSB report been made erroneously or is she still attempting to promote the charade? Telling fibs to the Feds is not looked on kindly.

Jonzarno

I could not agree more!

PLEASE can we keep the discussion focussed on the central issues? The more unfocused speculation / vilification we post here, the easier it is for Ms Curtis-Taylor and her team to hide from those questions.

Clare Prop

SWB makes a very good point about how it is a bit late, about 85 years too late; and incredibly patronising and misogynistic, to think that we poor sweet little girlies need role models to be inspired to fly and it is disappointing to see the organisations that have perpetuated this by jumping on the bandwagon.

It was Apollo 11 that made me decide I wanted to fly (aged 6) I didn't get to go to the moon but I did manage to clock up 12,000 hours before I had even heard of this woman. Watching brand new Concordes, 747s and the Red Arrows as a little kid made me more determined, with encouragement from my uncle who served in 161 Squadron. However it was working four jobs simultaneously and then being awarded the Amy Johnson Memorial Scholarship that made this possible for me. A slickly edited TV show and a powerpoint presentation doesn't pay for flying lessons.

24 years as an instructor have shown me that most women just aren't interested and those that are just get on with it.

So for those who think this is just a witch hunt perhaps this explains why some of us are so annoyed by it all, the assumption we can't do it all by our funny little selves, and that people like my uncle actually earned those wings (as well as the DSO, DFC and bar and never even spoke about about his skills and bravery) ...as did Amy Johnson, who died serving her country. So...it is kind of personal, in a way, if that makes sense.

I wonder if she would have made it into the ATA?

megan

Re the low flying, I said earlier,Had the low flying taken place in Australia, unless a number of pre conditions had been met, they would have been breaking the law, which is subject to strict liability, the penalty being $(Aus)9,000 in this instance. The lowest altitude permissible over open country is 500 feet.

Since we have no idea where the event took place, we have no idea what rules may have been in effect. The regulator in Australia has successfully prosecuted a number of people based on Youtube video. You need to be careful.

Hadley Rille

Indeed Clare Prop, plus if anything, women overall have an advantage in that only one in 200 suffer due to defective colour vision whereas one in 12 males have their dreams thwarted in this way.
Bitter? Moi?

9 lives

Isn't the moon monochrome anyway?

Drav

Of all the things TCT may have done wrong, please lets not focus on a fairly reasonable video of some slightly low flying. This is straying into jobsworth territory, while there are MUCH more worthwhile topics to focus on

9 lives

Is true, though it does, as an aside, further confirm the rather casual attitude that TCT has toward safety and compliance.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

The way I look at all of this is it is like a massive 1000-piece jigsaw, all jumbled in a box, no instructions as to what the final image is and, just for good measure, some pieces are missing, some are damaged, and there are some extra ones in there too. Amongst us we are trying to piece it all together, each working on different sections. Just like working on a jigsaw, sometimes you try the same piece two or three times before you finally get it to fit. I don't know about you, but I always try and do the edges first - I liken these to TCT answering the key questions and this still remains the priority. With these in place we can decide if it is worth carrying on. And, also like doing a jigsaw, you see some central pieces that can be tried and so give the edge a break for a short while.

Anyway, some new pieces have arrived and I am in contact with people who are in a position to send some more.

Below is a picture of the interior taken at the crash in Winslow. I am also in contact via e-mail with a key member of staff at the airport and I have the e-mail address of the NTSB investigator. As soon as their "pieces" arrive I shall offer them up to see if they fit.
Cheers
SWB

PDR1

Does it? We can only know it was "non-compliant" if we knew the location - in many parts of the world the sequence shown there could be perfectly legal (including the UK AFAICS). I'm not even sure it was "unsafe" - I'm pretty sure she could have undertaken a safe forced landing from most of it and there didn't look to be any point where there was a risk of collision with other aircraft, vessels, vehicles, persons, structures, trees or even the terrain. I saw no evidence that the performance or handling limits of the aeroplane were exceeded. If that's "unsafe" flying then I guess it's just as well I let my PPL lapse, because I did much the same on occasion (when the location and conditions permitted).

To be honest I'd say it just shows TCT is passionate about flying and enjoys a bit of stick-and-pedal stuff. This may seem strange to the more jaded ATPLs, but some of us actually *enjoy* a bit of hand-flying...

What's unsafe about it?

PDR

9 lives

Little, not lots. But, I keep seeing a person who wants to be a promoter of aviation and outreach, doing in airplanes, and boasting about things she does, which I would not want to think new pilots are doing. Perhaps she knows about the windmill or wires which someone else might not know about, and they hit them.

In my opinion, a pilot who actively promotes aviation must hold themselves to the highest standard of conduct, as other pilots may be watching. Pilots who blend into the background better may not be so visible to attract criticism of how they are seen to be flying.

TCT can't have it both ways, if she wants to represent aviation she has to leave no doubt about the compliance of her flying!

PDR1

If it's the post-crash photo then the G-meter tel-tales just reflect the ground impact and cartwheel.

PDR