Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)
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I disagree blueandwhite and to see why I refer you to Step Turns recent posts, because he echo's exactly my thoughts and to just expound them again would be merely repetition.
There is a subtle rift throughout this thread (as there is on many threads on this sub forum) between fully professional (and ex professional) aviators and some (by no means all) purely private flyers.
For any remotely decent professional (professional as in "paid" or as in "mindset") flyer The Bird in the Biplanes dialogue about her flying activities are beyond the pale.
For many of us the awards are not even close to being the most important issue here.
There is a subtle rift throughout this thread (as there is on many threads on this sub forum) between fully professional (and ex professional) aviators and some (by no means all) purely private flyers.
For any remotely decent professional (professional as in "paid" or as in "mindset") flyer The Bird in the Biplanes dialogue about her flying activities are beyond the pale.
For many of us the awards are not even close to being the most important issue here.
There are two sides to every story and there will be those who support one or the other.
What I find troubling is that there are those of us who have read all of this, investigated fanciful claims, and have gone on to establish further facts. Then there are those who by their own admission have not, or cannot be bothered to, read up on the subject but feel they have the right to undermine those who have.
The majority of TCT supporters fall in to that latter category.
Ref Terry Holloway in post #2796
Is it because they don't want to read the truth? Maybe if they took a little time to read through it all then their stance/opinion/support might just change. It has for others within this thread - a quick look back at the earlier posts show folk who were pro-TCT but have changed their opinions. I know, because I was one of them. I doubted the veracity of the claims against her, I watched the Aviatrix film, I read the newspapers, I read her Facebook and Twitter pages; I read this thread and I changed my mind.
Her supporters should not be discouraged from engaging on here. It is welcoming to see another point of view and how that view has been formed, A lot of them are unaware of the whole story so it is a pleasure to steer them to factual sources that show the deceit.
On the downside...
I expect to see more of them in the very near future simply because of that solicitor's letter. Their posts will all follow the same format ie "I think your posts are harassing/defamatory/witch-hunting/distressing" etc not because they are but because that solicitor has said that posts of that nature will be used as "evidence" that harassment has taken place.
With regards to that letter: I have read it and looked at ALL of the posts referenced within it. They are all taken out of context and so would not stand up to any scrutiny. Note also that the letter pre-dates the Herne Bay video publication. So the part about
Means that TCT has mislead her solicitor too.
What I find troubling is that there are those of us who have read all of this, investigated fanciful claims, and have gone on to establish further facts. Then there are those who by their own admission have not, or cannot be bothered to, read up on the subject but feel they have the right to undermine those who have.
The majority of TCT supporters fall in to that latter category.
Ref Terry Holloway in post #2796
"I certainly haven't read all the posts... My knowledge is based on the award the Air League gave her in May on the basis of a dual fight."
Is it because they don't want to read the truth? Maybe if they took a little time to read through it all then their stance/opinion/support might just change. It has for others within this thread - a quick look back at the earlier posts show folk who were pro-TCT but have changed their opinions. I know, because I was one of them. I doubted the veracity of the claims against her, I watched the Aviatrix film, I read the newspapers, I read her Facebook and Twitter pages; I read this thread and I changed my mind.
Her supporters should not be discouraged from engaging on here. It is welcoming to see another point of view and how that view has been formed, A lot of them are unaware of the whole story so it is a pleasure to steer them to factual sources that show the deceit.
On the downside...
I expect to see more of them in the very near future simply because of that solicitor's letter. Their posts will all follow the same format ie "I think your posts are harassing/defamatory/witch-hunting/distressing" etc not because they are but because that solicitor has said that posts of that nature will be used as "evidence" that harassment has taken place.
With regards to that letter: I have read it and looked at ALL of the posts referenced within it. They are all taken out of context and so would not stand up to any scrutiny. Note also that the letter pre-dates the Herne Bay video publication. So the part about
8. These allegations are untrue. Ms Curtis-Taylor has never sought to mislead anyone about the way that her flights were undertaken.
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Well I came back to have a quick look and I'm pleased to say the tone of the replies was not as bad as I expected.
i was disappointed to see that one person judges the worth of comments on the ability to spell correctly. To that person I say I recommend you check out how many dyslexics have made very valuable contributions to society. You might like to review your standards.
To those of you who have said I can't have a valid view as I have not read every post in this thread. I simply say that I do not need to read every post to form a view of the tone of the comments.
I get all your points about Tracy's conduct. Be it misleading people into thinking she was solo or flying low over whales or whatever. I agree its all not good on many levels. I simply don't agree with the way she is being pursued and vilified on this thread. For Pete's sake show some humanity.
And to the poster who said I hadn't been here from the beginning. Well simply you are incorrect.
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm out of here now and won't be back to this thread.
Happy flying to all.
i was disappointed to see that one person judges the worth of comments on the ability to spell correctly. To that person I say I recommend you check out how many dyslexics have made very valuable contributions to society. You might like to review your standards.
To those of you who have said I can't have a valid view as I have not read every post in this thread. I simply say that I do not need to read every post to form a view of the tone of the comments.
I get all your points about Tracy's conduct. Be it misleading people into thinking she was solo or flying low over whales or whatever. I agree its all not good on many levels. I simply don't agree with the way she is being pursued and vilified on this thread. For Pete's sake show some humanity.
And to the poster who said I hadn't been here from the beginning. Well simply you are incorrect.
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm out of here now and won't be back to this thread.
Happy flying to all.
When I said "Perhaps it's because the standard you walk past, is the standard you accept" I was referring to the apologists for TCT on here.
We are of the same mind. The conduct exhibited by TCT, her team and Ewald fall far below the standard expected and the posters wish to make their thoughts known. Given the definition of the word, some would readily refer to them as crooks.
I do find this thread unacceptable to my standards and it falls so far below conduct I find acceptable that I wish to make my thoughts known.
Could someone explain why the Services, who all have world class display teams, feel the need to attach themselves to so called "celebrities", yes I know about the celebrity culture but surely the Red Arrows (etc) provide all the inspiration that young people should ever need?
I think the problem re The Reds etc is one that TCT could have addressed quite well had she gone about this the right way. Encouraging more young women to get involved with aviation and wanting to aim high. To a large extent it has already been addressed, there are now many fine female pilots in the military, commercial civilian and recreational flying worlds; and there has been for a very long time. The Air Cadets for example have allowed female members since the '80s, so the opportunities are now there. For me it is not about gender but about ability and desire. I work closely with my local ATC Sqn and speaking to the cadets, not all of them want to become pilots.
The reds took on their first female pilot back in 2009 so that side has been partially addressed. TCT would like the entire team to be female but not all current female pilots want to be in the team, or they lack the genuine abilities/qualifications. There are some exceptionally good male military pilots out there that just don't make the grade too.
TCT lives in the misogynistic world of the 1930s where gender really did play a part and the likes of Amy Johnson and Mary Heath broke the mould. I think she is bitter that she was never a military pilot and seems to think that if things were different back then she would now be hooning around as a Typhoon QFI/QWI. Sadly, irrespective of gender, she would not have survived 5 minutes at a careers screening interview.
So to answer your question as I see it, The Royal Navy / Royal Marines / Royal Air Force have no reason to encourage what goes on in TCT's fantasy world other than she either talked her way in or people in high places have been beguiled.
SWB
The reds took on their first female pilot back in 2009 so that side has been partially addressed. TCT would like the entire team to be female but not all current female pilots want to be in the team, or they lack the genuine abilities/qualifications. There are some exceptionally good male military pilots out there that just don't make the grade too.
TCT lives in the misogynistic world of the 1930s where gender really did play a part and the likes of Amy Johnson and Mary Heath broke the mould. I think she is bitter that she was never a military pilot and seems to think that if things were different back then she would now be hooning around as a Typhoon QFI/QWI. Sadly, irrespective of gender, she would not have survived 5 minutes at a careers screening interview.
So to answer your question as I see it, The Royal Navy / Royal Marines / Royal Air Force have no reason to encourage what goes on in TCT's fantasy world other than she either talked her way in or people in high places have been beguiled.
SWB
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What gets me is you guys keep picking on Tracey....and let Ewald keep hiding himself in the front cockpit! Maybe she is getting the publicity but I bet he is not loosing money on the deal....even if his Stearmans keep getting bent! He has more than one of them, I believe!
I hold that guy very much responsible for the scam. If it wasn't for his aircraft and experience, she wouldn't get very far on her own.
I hold that guy very much responsible for the scam. If it wasn't for his aircraft and experience, she wouldn't get very far on her own.
"So to answer your question as I see it, The Royal Navy / Royal Marines / Royal Air Force have no reason to encourage what goes on in TCT's fantasy world other than she either talked her way in or people in high places have been beguiled."
SWB - many thanks.
SWB - many thanks.
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To those of you who have said I can't have a valid view as I have not read every post in this thread. I simply say that I do not need to read every post to form a view of the tone of the comments.
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re. #3459 "If it wasn't for his aircraft and experience, she wouldn't get very far on her own." - is it HIS aircraft ? I asked in #3438 about this, with video in which T C-T seems to says its her aeroplane ? ("my own aeroplane") - agree with rest of post #3459 especially "If it wasn't for ... experience, she wouldn't get very far on her own."
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I simply don't agree with the way she is being pursued and vilified on this thread. For Pete's sake show some humanity.
I agree with much of what you have said in your recent posts: there has been far too much gratuitous vilification in this thread, both of Ms Curtis-Taylor herself and also of anyone who tries to speak on her behalf.
Of course, one consequence of that is that Ms Curtis-Taylor and her team have been given something behind which they can hide, and I am sure they are more than happy to see those posts for that reason.
Some of us here have tried to stick to establishing AND proving the facts of the case and have encouraged other posters not to drag the argument away from those facts. In that at least I have to confess that we have not succeeded very well, but we will keep trying.
You ask posters to show some humanity, and I echo that sentiment. But we can show humanity at the same time as pursuing the truth.
The bald and simple fact is that clearly documented allegations have been made and simple and reasonable questions about them asked directly in a courteous and reasonable tone. We know for a fact, confirmed by the person who gave them to her, that those questions have been given directly to Ms Curtis-Taylor, yet she continues to refuse to answer them.
With respect: I do not believe that other posts here that are perhaps less factual should cause the search for the truth to stop.
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I think is important for the folks who think the subject matter of this thread is repeated ad infinitum or is a hamster wheel to realize that despite the first post questioning the solo aspects of her flight being over 9 months ago we only became aware of one of the key points in her fraud, specifically, Ewald 'hiding around the corner in the bushes' last week, and the Herne Bay video a few months ago. Peeling back the onion of deceit and lies takes time, sure there is a lot of fluff and nonsense between but important aspects of the scam have only become apparent because of the threads longevity
Long post..apologies now.
Mary: You make a very valid point. Ewald is not in the frame because he is a bloke, he is allowed to get away with it.
(Only joking) The main reason Ewald is not mentioned as often as he should is because of his ability to blend away from the spotlight. Like you, I too believe he is complicit in this whole charade and he is not the only male to have encouraged TCT to do what she has done.
******************************************
I have now had an email back from Portsmouth University (see below) to my reply has been:
Personally I don't think that chasing the Uni any further will be a good use of my time. They have nailed their colours to the mast and when this all is finally over they can join the queue to receive the media questions.
*********************************
I don't know the answer to this so seek the knowledge of you chaps (and chapesses)
on here, but what are the UK regs on low-level recreational flying in the UK? Acceptable or irresponsible? Where does the following early July 2013 flight sit with you all.
*********************************
As above regarding my lack of knowledge but...
The Stearman was first seen in the UK in public in early July 2013 and it was flown here from Hungary at a date yet to be determined.
It departed Goodwood for a flight back to Hungary on 22nd September 2013 in preparation of the Capetown to Goodwood jolly. There are images of its departure with TCT in the rear seat and an as yet unidentified front seat occupant.
A search of the FAA register shows that TCT and Ewald both got their FAA licences issued on the same day: 23 September 2013.
Questions: Is there anything unusual about this? More importantly, is there anything untoward about this bearing in mind the reg status of the aircraft (N56200). Feel free to PM me or via e-mail ( [email protected] ) if you don't wish to publish a response.
ta very muchly
SWB
Mary: You make a very valid point. Ewald is not in the frame because he is a bloke, he is allowed to get away with it.
(Only joking) The main reason Ewald is not mentioned as often as he should is because of his ability to blend away from the spotlight. Like you, I too believe he is complicit in this whole charade and he is not the only male to have encouraged TCT to do what she has done.
******************************************
I have now had an email back from Portsmouth University (see below) to my reply has been:
Dear Professor Galbraith.
Thank you for your recent e-mail.
I shall now take time to consider my options and seek further advice before I decide on the next step.
There continues to be a great media interest in her activities throughout her flights and no real evidence of the "outreach" which has been claimed. However, there is mounting factual and verifiable evidence to support claims that there has been a deliberate attempt to mislead. There are many questions that remain unanswered and lines of investigation to pursue; the university honour is just one small part of the whole picture.
In the meantime I thank you and your staff for taking the time to answer my enquiry. I shall leave it up to your collective consciences to decide if giving an award to Miss Curtis-Taylor was really in the best interest of the university and if promoting her as a suitable role-model is indeed a sensible stance to uphold.
Yours sincerely
Xxxxx Xxxxx
Thank you for your recent e-mail.
I shall now take time to consider my options and seek further advice before I decide on the next step.
There continues to be a great media interest in her activities throughout her flights and no real evidence of the "outreach" which has been claimed. However, there is mounting factual and verifiable evidence to support claims that there has been a deliberate attempt to mislead. There are many questions that remain unanswered and lines of investigation to pursue; the university honour is just one small part of the whole picture.
In the meantime I thank you and your staff for taking the time to answer my enquiry. I shall leave it up to your collective consciences to decide if giving an award to Miss Curtis-Taylor was really in the best interest of the university and if promoting her as a suitable role-model is indeed a sensible stance to uphold.
Yours sincerely
Xxxxx Xxxxx
*********************************
I don't know the answer to this so seek the knowledge of you chaps (and chapesses)
on here, but what are the UK regs on low-level recreational flying in the UK? Acceptable or irresponsible? Where does the following early July 2013 flight sit with you all.*********************************
As above regarding my lack of knowledge but...
The Stearman was first seen in the UK in public in early July 2013 and it was flown here from Hungary at a date yet to be determined.
It departed Goodwood for a flight back to Hungary on 22nd September 2013 in preparation of the Capetown to Goodwood jolly. There are images of its departure with TCT in the rear seat and an as yet unidentified front seat occupant.
A search of the FAA register shows that TCT and Ewald both got their FAA licences issued on the same day: 23 September 2013.
Questions: Is there anything unusual about this? More importantly, is there anything untoward about this bearing in mind the reg status of the aircraft (N56200). Feel free to PM me or via e-mail ( [email protected] ) if you don't wish to publish a response.
ta very muchly
SWB
Last edited by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY; 16th Jan 2017 at 18:06. Reason: to add e-mail address - my inbox is filling up fast.
Do note that this altercation is not one sided and is indeed still being perpetuated from the TCT camp . In recent days her Facebook page has been eviscerated of all the many objective negative comments and links to data patently demonstrating disingenuous behaviour ( e.g the Herne Bay video) obliterated.
Thus it would appear that the intent to deceive continues, in full face of the ever accumulating evidence of apparently continuing and deliberate obfuscation. For this reason alone, I think that this thread should be allowed to continue until this embarrassing and derogatory episode to the ethos of aviation in general is satisfactorily laid to rest.
Thus it would appear that the intent to deceive continues, in full face of the ever accumulating evidence of apparently continuing and deliberate obfuscation. For this reason alone, I think that this thread should be allowed to continue until this embarrassing and derogatory episode to the ethos of aviation in general is satisfactorily laid to rest.
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SWB, the vid looks fine, she's in the middle of nowhere having some fun, nothing a lot of folks on here wouldn't or don't do. I'm kind of jealous really looks like they're having blast. Nice plane, nice day, nice countryside, that's what GA flying is all about
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Expatrick asks "Could someone explain why the Services, who all have world class display teams, feel the need to attach themselves to so called 'celebrities'?"
As SWB says, it is The Bird who needs the Services, not the Services who need The Bird.
As SWB says, it is The Bird who needs the Services, not the Services who need The Bird.
Last edited by B70; 17th Jan 2017 at 07:59.
What gets me is you guys keep picking on Tracey....and let Ewald keep hiding himself in the front cockpit! Maybe she is getting the publicity but I bet he is not loosing money on the deal.
The low-level video looks pretty benign to me
The FAA rules are,
91.119 Minimum safe altitudes; general
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere – An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas – Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open-air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas – An altitude of 500 feet above the surface except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In that case, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere – An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas – Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open-air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas – An altitude of 500 feet above the surface except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In that case, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
Last edited by megan; 17th Jan 2017 at 04:35.
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This clip is pretty innocuous. It's not that low, the turns are not steep, it's not too slow. By comparison with many other low level clips, it's not that exciting either - an example if you like of a very average pilot. It's also quite likely to be legal as well. The argument about whether it was wise or not is a different matter entirely and not really relevant to this thread, besides we are missing too much data to have a discussion on this. Looks like her victim in the front had fun though.
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