Rough reception at Popham!

[Pilotage]

If complaining, the best thing to do would be to complain to Dick Richardson. He is thoruoughly pro-aviation, will do just about anything to ensure his customers are safe and happy, and is very good at keeping Popham on an even keel.

P

[oscarzulu]

My first call was made at approx 10 NM out, there were about four aircraft in the circuit and my feeling was that there was a misunderstanding or confusion on the part of the A/G operator as to who was asking for 'airfield details'- which I read back along with the QFE and informed him, and everyone else in the circuit how I intended to join. The next call was made when I established on base leg. That was the one that got the "who are you, never heared of you" retort.
All my calls were in acordance with CAP 413, and until I was on base leg, I was quite happy that everything was normal, I'm a CAA R/T examiner (with just short of 10,000 hrs in various different disciplines) so I've got a reasonable handle on how it should be conducted.
On the subject of the picture "oxo", yes, it was indeed the top one.
Someone mentioned the 'cut up traffic' this was an Air Camper that was about half a mile behind me and is even slower than my Kitfox, so there was no question of any conflict. I understand from the Boys that the afore mentioned Numpty is a fan of this type and it therefore would have priority. No mention of it in the Notams though..

[screwballburling]

I am disgusted reading your post.

Apart from the rudeness, there is a safety issue here.

You are not doubt an experienced pilot in this type of environment. However the pilot could have just as easily been a very inexperienced pilot. This could have caused a distraction, which possibly could have triggered a chain of events that led to an accident.

A thick skin in most cases, comes with experience and not normally at the beginning of the lifelong learning curve.

[Finals19]

oscarzulu...

On the basis of your last post, matey hasn't got a leg to stand on. He's an A/G operator which to me means that whatever transmissions are made "air-to-air" are for his reference ONLY...he has no authority whatsoever to enforce or influence them (correct me if I'm wrong...with respect to your RT examiner knowledge). The fact that you joined base (and not overhead or whatever the procedure is at Popham) is of no legal consequence to him either (or anyone else on the ground).

This kind of unprofessional, unwelcoming and somewhat arrogant behaviour that you received really incenses me and puts people off visiting new airfields. Such places then become insular little "redneck" communities where if you're "not in, you're not in". Popham of all places shouldn't end up like that as it has too much to offer.

Hopefully the Popham regulars (even management) are reading this.

[Talkdownman]

If I have read this correctly (and there is every chance that I might not have done!), the bit that troubles me, with all respect to OZ and my friend CT, is reading about a ∿10,000 hr CAA examiner joining directly on a base leg into an uncontrolled and busy circuit. After 46 years in the biz I have noticed that such a join is likely to upset someone, either up there or down here!

[DeeCee]

Joining Base is fairly common. If the right calls are made and you give way to circuit traffic there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

[oscarzulu]

Talkdownman- I tend to agree with you up to a point, but joining overhead in these days of routine noise complaints from the locals, especially on a fine Sunday is something I try to avoid, always assuming its safe to do so, I think that its far better to get down with the minimum time droning around in the vicinity, hence the base leg join. My point wasn't that I never do anything wrong, but that errors, or peceived errors for that matter, shouldn't be dealt with by a blast over the airwaves whilst turning onto final approach.

[Monocock]

I'm now confused by why happened as what OZ says in his last couple of posts is not the same as he wrote in his first.

In your 'senior' flying role that you have clearly outlined, I'm rather perplexed as to why you haven't called to speak to CT about this one-to-one before publicly writing here. Had you done that, you'd have no only been briefed as to how your joining actions weren't suitable (and subsequently annoyed him), and you'd also have done the more gentlemanly thing.

PS He likes Kitfoxes as much as he likes Aircampers so that was a weak stab.

[maxred]

Thanks oxo and DX. Cool little icon.

Right, I am now a bit perplexed and am tending to side with Monocock.

Why not call him prior to a rant on Proon??

Where was your first call made and what did you ask?

If circuit is active, it can be a PITA if someone relatively unannounced blunders in on base.

You state you did not want to upset the NIMBYS by put putting about??
however you appear to have now upset almost everyone else.

More to this methinks

[Talkdownman]

That's fine if giving way / conforming with the traffic pattern is executed in a reasonable manner. Many A/G operators and FISOs have observed conflicts when pilots attempt to join a busy traffic pattern in an unreasonable manner and consequently become concerned about the wisdom of direct joins. Whatever, a rebuke over the air or in public on the ground is inexcusable.

[maxred]

Agreed that any bollocking or unwarranted chatter is inexcusable. No way should it ever happen.

Sorry I appear to have missed the bit where Oscar Zulu states he called 10 miles out.

In that case, suggest you call him, discuss it thoroughly, ask for an apology, and let us know what happens next.

Does anyone know if the perpetrator is actually reading this??

[ifitaintboeing]

Popham website:

Overhead joins should generally be used though it is common practice to use a dead side join over the woods when using 08/26 and approaching from the south.

I don't know the circumstances, but I do know the A/G operator. I would suggest you give him a call OZ, as he is also a reasonably experienced aviator and I am sure he would welcome the feedback directly. There is never a reason for an 'ear bending' on the radio, although I think it is reasonable to provide guidance and training once you're in the clubhouse if you have not followed the published procedures.

Popham is a great place for all types of GA; your experience there is not the experience many of us have received when visiting Popham.

ifitaint...

[Richard Westnot]

I am not perplexed in the slightest. I think that I already have digested and have a reasonable insight and handle on what the OP and others have already said.

Why call a numpty for an apology? What chances do you honestly think that you will achieve in receiving one?

Thanks for the warning

If he ever lambasters me on the radio over the airwaves, he is in for a shock upon landing.

[Silvaire1]

Any aggressive tone on the radio is inappropriate. That said, the thing that always amazes me about screamers on the radio is their apparent lack of awareness that the recipient might decide to resolve the issue with a baseball bat, on the ground. There's a lot of different kinds of people out there, and not all of them are predisposed to prissy verbal interchanges. It's not good to make assumptions about who you're screaming at, when you can't see them.

[Monocock]

I am not perplexed in the slightest. I think that I already have digested and have a reasonable insight and handle on what the OP and others have already said.

Why call a numpty for an apology? What chances do you honestly think that you will achieve in receiving one?

Thanks for the warning

If he ever lambasters me on the radio over the airwaves, he is in for a shock upon landing.

Some people just don't have a clue. I used to think it was a genetic thing, but now I'm convinced it's all about junk food and poor education.

PS If he "lambasters" you, what'll that mean?

[Richard Westnot]

It'll mean that his mike will go where the sun does not shine

You are not related to the said gentleman by any chance ? He had a similar condescending nature about him as well from what others have said here

[maxred]

PS If he "lambasters" you, what'll that mean?

Is it not something to do with URANUS........

Richard you beat me too it by 1 minute

[Monocock]

You are not related to the said gentleman by any chance ? He had a similar condescending nature about him as well by all accounts

Nope. Just been reading this particular forum long enough to know when someone is just trying to stir up trouble, and isn't man enough to deal with it in a decent way.

[oscarzulu]

Monocock- After I landed I had an arguement with the man concerned that solved nothing, I was left with the choice of continueing untill someone got punched in the face, or sorting it out with a third party, I went into Dick's office but he wasn't there. So I sat down and had a cup of tea and thought it over. I've been thinking it over ever since, and I still feel that it was completely wrong to blast someone over the radio, its unprofessional at best, sure, if there's a urgent need (in a different situation) to vector an aircraft out of the way then I can accept you might have to let a pilot know they're in the wrong, but this is an A/G station, it is there purely to inform traffic of information such as runway in use and the like, it's not Air traffic Control. I think the man concerned has lost sight of this.

[Monocock]

Oscar Zulu

I read what you say.

I've also just read a very balanced email from the person you've accused of being out of order. He's given a very fair and balanced account of what happened. I will not disclose his account of the events, as he plans to do so himself. All I'd say is, when you're in a hole.....

You might want to fill in a few of the gaps in the story.....