Light aircraft down in Dundee
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I don't know to be honest.
As I said the whole thing hinges on the reports that the various agency's submit and the view of the proc fiscal on if it is in the public interest or not.
The endangerment wasn't related to the crash, its what Edi had to do to steer traffic away from him.
As I said the whole thing hinges on the reports that the various agency's submit and the view of the proc fiscal on if it is in the public interest or not.
The endangerment wasn't related to the crash, its what Edi had to do to steer traffic away from him.
As I've mentioned before, I very much doubt that this accident will get much in the way of an in-depth investigation. The injuries were not severe, the amount of third party damage was modest and, as far as I can tell, there was no independent examination of the wreckage, so there won't be much in the way of hard evidence as to causality.
I also doubt whether any airspace infringements were severe enough to attract any sort of legal action either, even if they'd occurred South of the border they would hardly have warranted more than a stiff 'phone call to the pilot afterwards.
I predict that all we'll see is a brief report from the AAIB, based largely on the pilot's testimony, that will be nowhere near as entertaining a read as this thread.
That doesn't change my view that the pilot is being a fool to himself by continuing to pretend that he wasn't to blame. His chosen strategy will just make a great deal of work for others, including, I'm sure, the manufacturers agent in the UK. Flight safety isn't likely to benefit much, which is a shame, as I think a lot could be learned from a full and open appraisal of the causes of this accident.
VP
I also doubt whether any airspace infringements were severe enough to attract any sort of legal action either, even if they'd occurred South of the border they would hardly have warranted more than a stiff 'phone call to the pilot afterwards.
I predict that all we'll see is a brief report from the AAIB, based largely on the pilot's testimony, that will be nowhere near as entertaining a read as this thread.
That doesn't change my view that the pilot is being a fool to himself by continuing to pretend that he wasn't to blame. His chosen strategy will just make a great deal of work for others, including, I'm sure, the manufacturers agent in the UK. Flight safety isn't likely to benefit much, which is a shame, as I think a lot could be learned from a full and open appraisal of the causes of this accident.
VP
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I don't know if he had admitted that he had run out of fuel due to his cockup they might have done as you have just proposed.
That type has had a few prangs and engines conking out due to fuel starvation while fuel is onboard is worthy of further investigation.
edited to add I have no real strong views on if should or shouldn't be taken to court. My only reason to comment is for the southern pilots to realise is quite different up north on the legal side of things.
I quite agree the full in's and out's of the trip should be documented because I can garantee they will be used for years for training pilots
That type has had a few prangs and engines conking out due to fuel starvation while fuel is onboard is worthy of further investigation.
edited to add I have no real strong views on if should or shouldn't be taken to court. My only reason to comment is for the southern pilots to realise is quite different up north on the legal side of things.
I quite agree the full in's and out's of the trip should be documented because I can garantee they will be used for years for training pilots
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VP959
I would really question ATC in this? I was involved in a Citation which filled with smoke climbing through FL240 over the channel at night.
We were trying to sort the thing out London were brilliant and very perceptive although at times they didnt have a lot to go on other than "we have a problem a bit of smoke" which turned into a lot of smoke and an emergency.
What happened here? a bumbling pilot all over the sky and ATC continued to handle him as if he had an IR and IFR equipt plane? Come on someone elses actions need looking at without knowing the full details or transcripts.
Pace
I would really question ATC in this? I was involved in a Citation which filled with smoke climbing through FL240 over the channel at night.
We were trying to sort the thing out London were brilliant and very perceptive although at times they didnt have a lot to go on other than "we have a problem a bit of smoke" which turned into a lot of smoke and an emergency.
What happened here? a bumbling pilot all over the sky and ATC continued to handle him as if he had an IR and IFR equipt plane? Come on someone elses actions need looking at without knowing the full details or transcripts.
Pace
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Fair point Mad Jock - It's roman law up here! None of that poncy common english stuff for us! Scots courts are actually much closer to their continental cousins than the southerners!
Having said that, you will be hard pushed to find any recent prosecutions for airspace infringements if you search the Scottish Courts records! - I've just looked.
PS No offence intended to those who are unfortunate enough to live or hail form Southern Britain.
Having said that, you will be hard pushed to find any recent prosecutions for airspace infringements if you search the Scottish Courts records! - I've just looked.
PS No offence intended to those who are unfortunate enough to live or hail form Southern Britain.
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You will be hard pushed to find any aviation related court cases in scotland. I haven't seen a single one on the CAA's list of success for years now
Something to do with the fact that the CAA doesn't get any of its costs back and its in the public interest to get drug dealers and other such scum through the courts.......
And just to note a previous posters comment. He has already been through one revalidation cycle. He might not be deemed a novice in the eyes of the powers that be. For all we know he could have a fair old number of hours banging around his local area.
Something to do with the fact that the CAA doesn't get any of its costs back and its in the public interest to get drug dealers and other such scum through the courts.......
And just to note a previous posters comment. He has already been through one revalidation cycle. He might not be deemed a novice in the eyes of the powers that be. For all we know he could have a fair old number of hours banging around his local area.
Last edited by mad_jock; 20th Aug 2009 at 20:00.
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Hi all,
I find it a bit strange that Vince seems to be quiet again since mentioning his contact with the AAIB.
As i understand things, the police will carry out an investigation into how this flight ended in a tree. Depending on who the investigating officer speaks to will depend on what evidence that officer takes to the PF.
One good thing might come out of this over the next few years though! I might just be tempted to try for my PPL to fly Microlights!
Take care out there!
I find it a bit strange that Vince seems to be quiet again since mentioning his contact with the AAIB.
As i understand things, the police will carry out an investigation into how this flight ended in a tree. Depending on who the investigating officer speaks to will depend on what evidence that officer takes to the PF.
One good thing might come out of this over the next few years though! I might just be tempted to try for my PPL to fly Microlights!
Take care out there!
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What happened here? a bumbling pilot all over the sky and ATC continued to handle him as if he had an IR and IFR equipt plane? Come on someone elses actions need looking at without knowing the full details or transcripts.
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apart from the nice man from Sky News in his Twin squirrel!!
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The guy is a 
idiot but, it also just goes to show the ludicrousness of the NPPL. This licence is a joke.
I cannot believe insurance companies will cover people with so little experience.
There should be a law akin to dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention and licences should be withdrawn in lieu of retraining and another test.
Furthermore, the attention should definitely be on WHO signed his revalidation and who signed his test pass. Because, in fairness 'pilots' like Vince are only in the air because some other idiot let them.
idiot but, it also just goes to show the ludicrousness of the NPPL. This licence is a joke. I cannot believe insurance companies will cover people with so little experience.There should be a law akin to dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention and licences should be withdrawn in lieu of retraining and another test.
Furthermore, the attention should definitely be on WHO signed his revalidation and who signed his test pass. Because, in fairness 'pilots' like Vince are only in the air because some other idiot let them.
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Obviously it's unfair to criticise the NPPL on the basis of one idiot (who had 70 hours training before he passed by all accounts).
Is there any real evidence that NPPL pilots present more risk?
Is there any real evidence that NPPL pilots present more risk?
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Originally Posted by pilotbear
The guy is a idiot but, it also just goes to show the ludicrousness of the NPPL. This licence is a joke.
I cannot believe insurance companies will cover people with so little experience.
idiot but, it also just goes to show the ludicrousness of the NPPL. This licence is a joke. I cannot believe insurance companies will cover people with so little experience.Only a
idiot would blame the licence, what the hell difference does it make what licence he had?Yes I obviously have a NPPL(A) & yes, being tarred with the same brush does piss me off. What type of licence do you have that qualifies you to criticise anyone elses?
Last edited by Crash one; 20th Aug 2009 at 21:12.
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Get your facts right before you spout off PACE.....At no stage I think you will find did our mate Vince intimate to ATC that he had a problem.....the only problem was for the lady controller that found her self confronted with an ultralight aircraft bumbling through the Scottish TMA at FL 090 ish and 70 kts as she was trying to sequence here Edinburgh inbound traffic towards the tartan holding fix!!! And dont forget he was operating in the Scotish TMA which is class D airsapce where VFR flight is permitted with an ATC clearance with what dear Vince boy got....now starting to think you more of a muppet than Vince!!!
or rather Pea brain is more apt what qualifications do you have to make such comments reveal all amaze me NPPL? PPL? or NOTHING probably NOTHING!
Really how many microlights do you think in your amazing wisdom cruise at FL100 in that space? How many microlight pilots given a FL to fly then go up and down like a yo yo and dont even know what the setting for a FL is? How many microlight pilots flying at those levels talk rubbish and sound as if they have no place to be there?
If ATC are not alerted to a possible problem by the antics of this pilot any one with sense would check regardless of the pilot informing them that he had a problem...... That is pretty obvious
Go change your nappy
Pace
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what ATC ? Then explain? wasnt anyone alerted by the fact that the guy didnt know what a FL was? didnt you realise that something wasnt right? Its not rocket science. or were you too busy drinking tea and reading mags? You have a duty of care to those up there. The good ATC are far more intuitive than your purile response indicates
Pace
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 20th Aug 2009 at 22:27.
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PACE its obvious from comments like that that indeed you know nothing at all about ATC...if you would like to visit Scottish Control just PM me and I will arrange a visit and maybe educate you a little........the word muppet comes to mind in this thread many times...sadly at times poor Vince is not the victim!!
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
Guys,
Can we all take a deep breath and count to 10? There seems to be some heat developing under certain collars!
There's many good posts and many good points here.
Please can we continue the discussion without raising hackles?
Thank you all.
SD
Can we all take a deep breath and count to 10? There seems to be some heat developing under certain collars!
There's many good posts and many good points here.
Please can we continue the discussion without raising hackles?
Thank you all.
SD