Light aircraft down in Dundee
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Vince is most certainly colourful and we do need characters like him to brighten up this grey society.
he certainly pepped up this forum no end. Vince when you do get the replacement aircraft paint Biggles on the side so we know you are coming. i am sure you will get a warm welcome just land on the runway not the nearest tree
i too wish you the best and hope you havent damaged your cause with all this high profile thing.
Pace
he certainly pepped up this forum no end. Vince when you do get the replacement aircraft paint Biggles on the side so we know you are coming. i am sure you will get a warm welcome just land on the runway not the nearest tree
i too wish you the best and hope you havent damaged your cause with all this high profile thing.
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Hi Yakker
Quote from an e-mail from one of them - I am sure he will not mind!
"As far as PPrune is concerned it is (and nearly always was) used as a
whinging arena for people who have to hide behind strange names who then moan about everyone except themselves. I used to read (and use) the forum but for the same reasons I have not looked at it for a long while.
You are welcome here anytime, I have planted a few saplings to make you
feel at home but the runways are an awful lot easier and you don't need
a ladder to climb out of the aircraft."
I have taken a different view, and come on the forum in an open mided way to hear and reply to sensible criticism. Whilst some members have treated this in the spirit in which it is intended, others seem to indulge themselves in being plain unpleasant. Maybe it is unusual for a "zero" to do this. Perhaps you might, yakker, ask yourself why? And what do you fly? Are you a professional pilot, an amateur or what? Perhaps you might give your real name too? It would be nice to know YOUR level of expertise that gives you the right to criticise MINE!
And maybe you'd like to explain the fuel that was, as I predicted, found in the Port wing tank after recovery of the aircraft. Perhaps, in my pyjamas, I busted the police cordon with a can from a local garage and climbed the tree to fill the tank?
If I had done that, you would at least expect me to have a film crew on standby!
I look forward to hearing YOUR answers to MY questions.
Respectfully as ever,
Vince
007 Helicopter (great name!) thank you, Vince
Quote from an e-mail from one of them - I am sure he will not mind!
"As far as PPrune is concerned it is (and nearly always was) used as a
whinging arena for people who have to hide behind strange names who then moan about everyone except themselves. I used to read (and use) the forum but for the same reasons I have not looked at it for a long while.
You are welcome here anytime, I have planted a few saplings to make you
feel at home but the runways are an awful lot easier and you don't need
a ladder to climb out of the aircraft."
I have taken a different view, and come on the forum in an open mided way to hear and reply to sensible criticism. Whilst some members have treated this in the spirit in which it is intended, others seem to indulge themselves in being plain unpleasant. Maybe it is unusual for a "zero" to do this. Perhaps you might, yakker, ask yourself why? And what do you fly? Are you a professional pilot, an amateur or what? Perhaps you might give your real name too? It would be nice to know YOUR level of expertise that gives you the right to criticise MINE!
And maybe you'd like to explain the fuel that was, as I predicted, found in the Port wing tank after recovery of the aircraft. Perhaps, in my pyjamas, I busted the police cordon with a can from a local garage and climbed the tree to fill the tank?
If I had done that, you would at least expect me to have a film crew on standby!
I look forward to hearing YOUR answers to MY questions.
Respectfully as ever,
Vince
007 Helicopter (great name!) thank you, Vince
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Pace - thank you. I have followed your comments with interest.
When I first heard that this forum was being quoted in the Press I was puzzled. I have known a number of pro pilots (including RAF) and none of them would criticise a fellow pilot based on press reports alone.
It took me ages to get into the thread - mostly cos my glasses and spare pair were up a tree and my old ones here prevented me from seeing the funny numbers and letters and stuff. Then I noticed the refresh and simply click it until I see something legible.
Once in I decided that there was so much "disinformation" that I would quietly feed in real info.
For those who listened I am grateful Those who sought to undermine me, construct alternative scenarios, fantasise, speculate I can consider that this is a rumour forum and that is fair enough.
However, the abusive and hostile comments from some make me query whether this sort of anonymity is a good thing.
I still believe it is entirely wrong for comments of any sort made on this anonymous forum should be made into Press headlines. the Press can have their day when the Enquiry has done its work. In the meantime speculate on, but only expect to be taken seriously if you also listen.
Pace - I exclude you from these comments as you are one who has listened and thought! Vince
Vince
When I first heard that this forum was being quoted in the Press I was puzzled. I have known a number of pro pilots (including RAF) and none of them would criticise a fellow pilot based on press reports alone.
It took me ages to get into the thread - mostly cos my glasses and spare pair were up a tree and my old ones here prevented me from seeing the funny numbers and letters and stuff. Then I noticed the refresh and simply click it until I see something legible.
Once in I decided that there was so much "disinformation" that I would quietly feed in real info.
For those who listened I am grateful Those who sought to undermine me, construct alternative scenarios, fantasise, speculate I can consider that this is a rumour forum and that is fair enough.
However, the abusive and hostile comments from some make me query whether this sort of anonymity is a good thing.
I still believe it is entirely wrong for comments of any sort made on this anonymous forum should be made into Press headlines. the Press can have their day when the Enquiry has done its work. In the meantime speculate on, but only expect to be taken seriously if you also listen.
Pace - I exclude you from these comments as you are one who has listened and thought! Vince
Vince
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Timothy
I have nothing but praise for the golfers who called immediately to get services on site, the rescue service, police and hospital. They coordinated well and I was really well looked after. I did say that in the Press interviews and it was widely reported at the time. My apologies if that was not made clear to this forum.
The dark blue pyjamas, with a belt and my high viz jacket made me look like a hospital/rail worker I supposed. I left the hospital to get some clothes from a local tesco or something but while waiting had a message from the police that the plane was being removed so I went straght to the park.
Unfortunately my sprained ankle prevented me from walking to the site and no electric buggies were available so I went to the club house and the taxi driver (who plays on the course) kindly walked up to the tree. He reported nothing was happening there after all and that no time was being predicted. (all the club officials were away that day or maybe someone would have found me a buggy. The professional was giving a lesson....)
So I went home, catching the 14:00 from Edinburgh for Kings Cross where my wife met me with clothes. Wanting to see my wife and younger son was a powerful attraction, but I did have the funeral of my first wife's mother to arrange for Monday so home looked good. Husbands and parents will I am sure understand. Vince
I have nothing but praise for the golfers who called immediately to get services on site, the rescue service, police and hospital. They coordinated well and I was really well looked after. I did say that in the Press interviews and it was widely reported at the time. My apologies if that was not made clear to this forum.
The dark blue pyjamas, with a belt and my high viz jacket made me look like a hospital/rail worker I supposed. I left the hospital to get some clothes from a local tesco or something but while waiting had a message from the police that the plane was being removed so I went straght to the park.
Unfortunately my sprained ankle prevented me from walking to the site and no electric buggies were available so I went to the club house and the taxi driver (who plays on the course) kindly walked up to the tree. He reported nothing was happening there after all and that no time was being predicted. (all the club officials were away that day or maybe someone would have found me a buggy. The professional was giving a lesson....)
So I went home, catching the 14:00 from Edinburgh for Kings Cross where my wife met me with clothes. Wanting to see my wife and younger son was a powerful attraction, but I did have the funeral of my first wife's mother to arrange for Monday so home looked good. Husbands and parents will I am sure understand. Vince
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I have been reading this thread with much interest, besides my feeble attempt at a mass of puns in the first page or two.
I think the key here is learnings, we have a rare opportunity on this board to discuss the situation with the poor pilot involved. Pitty Chesley B Sullenberger the 3rd was not available to discuss it with us, but looking at some of the attacking posts maybe it was a good thing.
We're waiting on the report yes, and maybe Vince was a bit early in giving information on the forum, maybe, but hey, lets be civil and gain from someone else's experience.
Who knows what I would have done, I had an engine failure in a 182 once, but I had many a field to choose. Looking over other territory I am loathed to look into a canopy as a potential forced landing site.
I must be in a rambling mood so I'll bugger off...Vince, thanks for hanging round, sorry to hear about your Mother In Law.
SB
I think the key here is learnings, we have a rare opportunity on this board to discuss the situation with the poor pilot involved. Pitty Chesley B Sullenberger the 3rd was not available to discuss it with us, but looking at some of the attacking posts maybe it was a good thing.
We're waiting on the report yes, and maybe Vince was a bit early in giving information on the forum, maybe, but hey, lets be civil and gain from someone else's experience.
Who knows what I would have done, I had an engine failure in a 182 once, but I had many a field to choose. Looking over other territory I am loathed to look into a canopy as a potential forced landing site.
I must be in a rambling mood so I'll bugger off...Vince, thanks for hanging round, sorry to hear about your Mother In Law.
SB
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airpolice
Sorry I do recall seeing your questions way back, but clearly omitted to answer them. I have printed them so refer to the questions in order.
Why Barrow? The front that was expected later in the evening hit the Lakes about three hours early (confirmed by Barrow tower). I was en route to East Kirkbride where a taxi was waiting to take me to Grasmere to see my nephew's family. (he is a "lapsed" PPL)
It was looking murky over towards Leeds Bradford, but bright by the coast so I diverted to the coast and chose to land at Barrow rather than go back to Woodvale, where I had landed a couple of weeks back to see sick mother in law.
Barrow is the most welcoming field I know and also a great base for the Lakes (bus via Windermere or Kendal) I am trying to attach the picture sent me just now by them, when inviting me back after the incident, but with no success.
Re ATC - most postings seem to be derived from one comment. The record will confirm my account. There is a warning on this site that not all postings are what they seem....
Re divert to Carlisle - no need as I had sufficient under normal conditions to get to Kinloss direct with a healthy margin (the exact amounts are on the flight notes and in the a/c). We (ie the Head of Flight Operations, the airfield manager and I all discussed the most sensible fuel stop and it was Dundee. I had plenty of fuel to go there, even after having burned the Kinloss margin in the climb. 10 litres measured at straight and level was quite enough for Dundee.
From Barrow I went at efficient cruise speed under cloud round the headland to the Solway Firth, missing Sellafield well to the East of the railway as instructed by Barrow. Joined the straight line route at the head of the Firth and commenced to climb above clouds.
Fuel at departure was checked and double checked and is in my pilots notes as above. Fuel burn was because I clumbed steeply to get above cloud north of Solway Firth. The clouds were confirmed by another contributor. Fuel was watched throughout the flight, but Kinloss assessed and rejected in favour of fuel pick up at Dundee after leaving Edinburgh.
I have self criticisms of the flight that I shall make to the Inspector, but really it was properly planned with the assistance of three pilots, fuel assessed as planned and diverted as planned. If the engine had cut 30 seconds earlier I had a perfectly adequate crop field (is there Farmers site like this?). If it had cut 30 seconds later I should have ended in shallow water, if there is no beach. If it had not been for "competition day" at the course I might have landed safely on a fairway.
Please note that the engine panel, transponder and satnav have all survived and are being handed to the technical inspector by the loss adjustor. I trust that he will have my charts, Pooleys and flight notes or that they will be in "lost property" held by the police.
Once again, sorry if I seemed to be ignoring you. Vince
SoundBarrier - trust you prefer jets with a name like that!? Vince
PS the taxi from Grasmere that was a EK came all the way to Barrow to collect me. What a hero! Vince
Sorry I do recall seeing your questions way back, but clearly omitted to answer them. I have printed them so refer to the questions in order.
Why Barrow? The front that was expected later in the evening hit the Lakes about three hours early (confirmed by Barrow tower). I was en route to East Kirkbride where a taxi was waiting to take me to Grasmere to see my nephew's family. (he is a "lapsed" PPL)
It was looking murky over towards Leeds Bradford, but bright by the coast so I diverted to the coast and chose to land at Barrow rather than go back to Woodvale, where I had landed a couple of weeks back to see sick mother in law.
Barrow is the most welcoming field I know and also a great base for the Lakes (bus via Windermere or Kendal) I am trying to attach the picture sent me just now by them, when inviting me back after the incident, but with no success.
Re ATC - most postings seem to be derived from one comment. The record will confirm my account. There is a warning on this site that not all postings are what they seem....
Re divert to Carlisle - no need as I had sufficient under normal conditions to get to Kinloss direct with a healthy margin (the exact amounts are on the flight notes and in the a/c). We (ie the Head of Flight Operations, the airfield manager and I all discussed the most sensible fuel stop and it was Dundee. I had plenty of fuel to go there, even after having burned the Kinloss margin in the climb. 10 litres measured at straight and level was quite enough for Dundee.
From Barrow I went at efficient cruise speed under cloud round the headland to the Solway Firth, missing Sellafield well to the East of the railway as instructed by Barrow. Joined the straight line route at the head of the Firth and commenced to climb above clouds.
Fuel at departure was checked and double checked and is in my pilots notes as above. Fuel burn was because I clumbed steeply to get above cloud north of Solway Firth. The clouds were confirmed by another contributor. Fuel was watched throughout the flight, but Kinloss assessed and rejected in favour of fuel pick up at Dundee after leaving Edinburgh.
I have self criticisms of the flight that I shall make to the Inspector, but really it was properly planned with the assistance of three pilots, fuel assessed as planned and diverted as planned. If the engine had cut 30 seconds earlier I had a perfectly adequate crop field (is there Farmers site like this?). If it had cut 30 seconds later I should have ended in shallow water, if there is no beach. If it had not been for "competition day" at the course I might have landed safely on a fairway.
Please note that the engine panel, transponder and satnav have all survived and are being handed to the technical inspector by the loss adjustor. I trust that he will have my charts, Pooleys and flight notes or that they will be in "lost property" held by the police.
Once again, sorry if I seemed to be ignoring you. Vince
SoundBarrier - trust you prefer jets with a name like that!? Vince
PS the taxi from Grasmere that was a EK came all the way to Barrow to collect me. What a hero! Vince
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Vince,
Sound Barrier is more of a goal than an experience, well actually the other way round. I don't want to get to the Barrier of Sound for fear of breaking up. I only fly pistons with a little turbine time.
"Avoid the Sound Barrier"
hehe.
Sound Barrier is more of a goal than an experience, well actually the other way round. I don't want to get to the Barrier of Sound for fear of breaking up. I only fly pistons with a little turbine time.
"Avoid the Sound Barrier"
hehe.
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Sound Barrier.
How is it flying a turbine? I flew round the volcanoes of hawaii a couple of months ago (as a passenger, the volcanoes were safe!) behind a turboprop and could not believe the deathly silence and thrust.
Is there a technical difficulty with developing a small. light t/prop for small a/c or is it an economic one?
I have often seen small gas turbine jets on model aircraft so I would assume that the power/weight ratio can be within some useable limits. Anyone care to make a fortune?
And there is the guy who flew the channel in a winged suit recently - he had (was it 4?) of the little jets driving him.
So why are we small aircraft stuck with technology that dates to the last century but one, however well developed since? Did Whittle (1907 - 1996) live in vain?? Vince
How is it flying a turbine? I flew round the volcanoes of hawaii a couple of months ago (as a passenger, the volcanoes were safe!) behind a turboprop and could not believe the deathly silence and thrust.
Is there a technical difficulty with developing a small. light t/prop for small a/c or is it an economic one?
I have often seen small gas turbine jets on model aircraft so I would assume that the power/weight ratio can be within some useable limits. Anyone care to make a fortune?
And there is the guy who flew the channel in a winged suit recently - he had (was it 4?) of the little jets driving him.
So why are we small aircraft stuck with technology that dates to the last century but one, however well developed since? Did Whittle (1907 - 1996) live in vain?? Vince
Last edited by avgh; 19th Aug 2009 at 05:47. Reason: spelling
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Hi Vince.
I also fly a CTSW, so I'm genuinely interested to learn from this incident.
When you say
Can you confirm that you calculated your fuel burn as being 10ltrs between Barrow and Dundee? Just a rough measurement suggests the distance as being 140nm on a direct track. Assuming a cruise of say 110 knots using 14ltrs per hour I'm struggling to see how 10ltrs could be adequate. Does the 10 ltrs include or exclude the 6ltrs unusable (the aircraft I fly has this clearly placarded).
Also, what type of flight display was fitted to your aircraft. Was it the Brauniger AlphaMFD 'LCD' style display or the Dynon EFIS system, (the latter will show fuel to destination if coupled to a GPS). Both systems however do not directly measure fuel in the tanks - they rely on the pilot setting the onboard fuel level prior to flight based on dipping the tanks. When were the fuel tanks last dipped? I'm curious about this as you mentioned that you 'diverted along the coast to land at Barrow' - Did this use additional fuel? Barrow does not normally have either MoGAS of Avgas available.
Thank you.
I also fly a CTSW, so I'm genuinely interested to learn from this incident.
When you say
10 litres measured at straight and level was quite enough for Dundee.
Also, what type of flight display was fitted to your aircraft. Was it the Brauniger AlphaMFD 'LCD' style display or the Dynon EFIS system, (the latter will show fuel to destination if coupled to a GPS). Both systems however do not directly measure fuel in the tanks - they rely on the pilot setting the onboard fuel level prior to flight based on dipping the tanks. When were the fuel tanks last dipped? I'm curious about this as you mentioned that you 'diverted along the coast to land at Barrow' - Did this use additional fuel? Barrow does not normally have either MoGAS of Avgas available.
Thank you.
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Hi Vince,
Ah, the 'hero to zero' comment hurt. But IF you ran out of fuel then the statement is true.
As you choose to only answer questions you want to answer, I will do the same.
The problem Vince is you have given an outline as to what happened, but when someone asks a specific question and you choose not to give an answer, and then someone else provides the information that seems credible and informed, that is used instead (rightly or wrongly).
As I have said before just trying to understand what happened, the final criticism (if there is any) will come from the CAA.
Yakker (just a PPL)
Ah, the 'hero to zero' comment hurt. But IF you ran out of fuel then the statement is true.
As you choose to only answer questions you want to answer, I will do the same.
explain the fuel that was, as I predicted, found in the Port wing tank after recovery
the 6ltrs unusable (the aircraft I fly has this clearly placarded)
As I have said before just trying to understand what happened, the final criticism (if there is any) will come from the CAA.
Yakker (just a PPL)
...but only expect to be taken seriously if you also listen.
Pace - I exclude you from these comments as you are one who has listened and thought! Vince
Pace - I exclude you from these comments as you are one who has listened and thought! Vince
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!Someone else put it rather politely in an earlier post:-
" You seem to be stuck on transmit."
But as you seem incapable of shutting up, listening and learning, Mr H, this one is very clearly for you:
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
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Squadgy. I wrote a long note to you, took some calls, returned and the damn thing was swallowed up when I had to log in again. Should have copied it before logging in!
On reflection I would like to talk through the detail with you but this would not be of interest to non CT owners. You can find my phone number (don't use the mobile as it is still in Dundee - somewhere) easily across the net, if you can get past the biggles bit!
Do call and I should like tio tell you about the experience.
Warm regards, Vince
ALL
I have spoken to the AAIB yesterday and today and they are getting on with the job. I have referred them initially to my posts on this site since it seems pointless writing another report when most of the detail is available in serial form.
This does mean that the AAIB will definitely get to see your postings, so you can be sure that no possibility that you raise will be ignored by officialdom.
Any CT owners who may have any issues with what I have written are welcome to get in touch by phone - but not on my mobile as that is still missing. A bit of googling (I am going to regret this - what if Yakker calls? will he give me his REAL name? Will he land in the tree at the bottom of my garden?) will get a contact number at home or work.
I really appreciate this enforced introduction to a rumour site - and can see that in some circumstances they could prove quite useful in uncovering "hidden" issues.
I am also pleased to have been able to exchange views with some really interested and interesting people I might not have ever met otherwise.
All the best to all of you, even those who think shooting is too good for me! Vince
Planned as "the last posting"
On reflection I would like to talk through the detail with you but this would not be of interest to non CT owners. You can find my phone number (don't use the mobile as it is still in Dundee - somewhere) easily across the net, if you can get past the biggles bit!
Do call and I should like tio tell you about the experience.
Warm regards, Vince
ALL
I have spoken to the AAIB yesterday and today and they are getting on with the job. I have referred them initially to my posts on this site since it seems pointless writing another report when most of the detail is available in serial form.
This does mean that the AAIB will definitely get to see your postings, so you can be sure that no possibility that you raise will be ignored by officialdom.
Any CT owners who may have any issues with what I have written are welcome to get in touch by phone - but not on my mobile as that is still missing. A bit of googling (I am going to regret this - what if Yakker calls? will he give me his REAL name? Will he land in the tree at the bottom of my garden?) will get a contact number at home or work.
I really appreciate this enforced introduction to a rumour site - and can see that in some circumstances they could prove quite useful in uncovering "hidden" issues.
I am also pleased to have been able to exchange views with some really interested and interesting people I might not have ever met otherwise.
All the best to all of you, even those who think shooting is too good for me! Vince
Planned as "the last posting"
You may be better informed by all this but you are none the wiser! Vince
I strongly doubt that anyone is better informed by anything you have said Mr H.
However, where we somehow agree is that nobody, not even you, have become any wiser. You're still 'stuck on transmit' I notice. Give it a break, please. You give every impression of being a complete furkin idiot who, apart from having many major aviation failings, just doesn't know when to shut up.
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I have referred them [the AAIB] initially to my posts on this site since it seems pointless writing another report when most of the detail is available in serial form.
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Vince although this site allows people to use handles to cover thier identity it doesn't take long to work out who does what job, what hardware they drive and what their experence is.
Also quite a few meet up for beers. The controller who has given the "other side" of the story not only have I had acouple of beers with but also I have done a couple of hours in an aircraft before they renewed thier SEP and a fine pair of hands he had as well (apart from when he took my head off the ceiling)
You have three issues going on which I must admit most are lumping together.
The first one is your issues with ATC about controlled airspace. You will notice I haven't commented on this. But the posters on the subject from Scottish I can assure you have access to tapes and radar plots of what happened. And I believe you do have issues to deal with this.If I were you I would phone Scottish and ask to speak a manager and find out what they are saying.
The second one is your flight planning of the the route. I really don't see this as a henious crime, like PACE my exposure to the GA community has proved that you are not alone in getting into difficulties on this one.
The third is why the engine conked out when it did. Personally I think it was because of a technical issue linked with inexperence. Your thought proccesses of planting it where you did again comes down to inexperence. I hope they do a full investigation on the trip. If they do I for one will be using it for training other pilots.
Now you questions about turbines. First of all they are very hungry for fuel at low altitudes my own aircaft uses nearly double at 5000ft compared to FL230.
Second propellers are way more efficent than ducted fans which is why the turboprop market is becoming very strong, the whole economics compared to jets is remarkable when you start digging into it. Only down side is they are noisy and pax prefer jets. This is being worked on with active noise cancelation and other tricks.
The operation of a turbine is way more simple than a piston engine. Once you have got it started (some types take a bit more monitoring than others) it really is a very simple one lever operation (variable pitch prop issues outstanding)
So the idea is actually a good one but unfortunatly its not a viable option for VFR low level tourer. For a pilot to make it economic you need to fly high in controlled airspace and we know the dangers of that
Also quite a few meet up for beers. The controller who has given the "other side" of the story not only have I had acouple of beers with but also I have done a couple of hours in an aircraft before they renewed thier SEP and a fine pair of hands he had as well (apart from when he took my head off the ceiling)
You have three issues going on which I must admit most are lumping together.
The first one is your issues with ATC about controlled airspace. You will notice I haven't commented on this. But the posters on the subject from Scottish I can assure you have access to tapes and radar plots of what happened. And I believe you do have issues to deal with this.If I were you I would phone Scottish and ask to speak a manager and find out what they are saying.
The second one is your flight planning of the the route. I really don't see this as a henious crime, like PACE my exposure to the GA community has proved that you are not alone in getting into difficulties on this one.
The third is why the engine conked out when it did. Personally I think it was because of a technical issue linked with inexperence. Your thought proccesses of planting it where you did again comes down to inexperence. I hope they do a full investigation on the trip. If they do I for one will be using it for training other pilots.
Now you questions about turbines. First of all they are very hungry for fuel at low altitudes my own aircaft uses nearly double at 5000ft compared to FL230.
Second propellers are way more efficent than ducted fans which is why the turboprop market is becoming very strong, the whole economics compared to jets is remarkable when you start digging into it. Only down side is they are noisy and pax prefer jets. This is being worked on with active noise cancelation and other tricks.
The operation of a turbine is way more simple than a piston engine. Once you have got it started (some types take a bit more monitoring than others) it really is a very simple one lever operation (variable pitch prop issues outstanding)
So the idea is actually a good one but unfortunatly its not a viable option for VFR low level tourer. For a pilot to make it economic you need to fly high in controlled airspace and we know the dangers of that
From Vince's precent post -
"I have spoken to the AAIB yesterday and today and they are getting on with the job. I have referred them initially to my posts on this site since it seems pointless writing another report when most of the detail is available in serial form".
ROFLMAO. As I expect the AAIB will be , when not doing their officially serious bit.
I think the appropriate word, Vince, is Chutzpah !
It would be nice to believe you are unique, though sadly.. 'Nuff said.
"I have spoken to the AAIB yesterday and today and they are getting on with the job. I have referred them initially to my posts on this site since it seems pointless writing another report when most of the detail is available in serial form".
ROFLMAO. As I expect the AAIB will be , when not doing their officially serious bit.
I think the appropriate word, Vince, is Chutzpah !
It would be nice to believe you are unique, though sadly.. 'Nuff said.