Why do people give up?

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

Why People Quit…

I’d tend to agree with most of the points raised above. There will always be the ‘box tickers’ who want to achieve particular challenges, then move on to the next one. Good on ‘em, they help to play for the infrastructure that the rest of us use.


There is also the boredom argument, in that time between completing the PPL and finding out what sort of flying you enjoy. The problem is that you need to build the experience to be confident to do the more interesting things like touring or aeros or strip flying. As mentioned in posts above, there are interesting things to do while accumulating the experience, if only exploiting the Pilot / Flyer / Today’s Pilot freebie landings.


Beyond the technical challenge, probably the best thing about flying is the social side. Be that flying with other group members, trips with other members of an enlightened flying club, the local LAA Strut or the folks at the farm strip. I suspect many folk who give up spend their last few flying hours boring holes in the sky alone, wondering why they are doing it.


I’m sad to hear that the lack of welcome offered to nicnak Jnr is still around. I encountered the same thing in 1991. Several training organisations lost out on two lots of PPL training income, as my GF at the time was going to learn as well. After finding one eccentric outfit (Air South in the era of John & Jenny Pothecary), I happily completed the PPL and a bit towards the IMC before being lured in to the PFA / farm strip flying scene.


One of the things that will keep people flying is the involvement of partners, family members or friends. I’ve been lucky enough to find a partner who is interested to the point of having her own aeroplane. OK, meeting through aviation probably helped. The question we get asked at fly-ins is ‘Why do you bring two aeroplanes?’


Safe Flying,
Richard W.

[patfitz]

problems for a wannabe ppl

I am interested in doing the ppl. What puts me off doing it in the uk is the cancelation of lessons due to weather. I then intended on going to florida but cant get the 3-6 weeks to go. I was then thinking of going to Spain or the Czeck republic for a week at a time and getting around 15 hours in to get a start (while also gettin the odd lesson in the uk). I dont think ill save any money just that ill be able to get almost guarenteed flying time. In the last week I have rang two schools in Ireland and both of them said there had been no flights for most of the last week due to wind and if I wanted to do a lesson I would have to book 3 weeks in advane.

After reading a lot of the other threads I am now having 2nd thoughts about getting the ppl. I dont want to fly for the sake of it, I want to fly to go places. Initially I thought Ill get the ppl and then put up a few hours in a rented aircraft and then do the IMC.

I have no interest in flying circuits or flying for the sake of tring to keep current. I want to be able to think on friday week im going where,and think occasionally I will have to cancel due to weather but from what I am led to believe at the moment, if I want to go further away than 250 miles there is more than a 50% chance that I will have to cancel. I read one blog of a guy that booked 90 flying lessons in the uk during October-December and only got 3 due to weather and instructors canceling. That works out at 1 in every 30 attempts. When working in the uk When working in the uk I would not have the time for cancelled lessons.

Another guy passed the ppl and then had the dilema that it was cheaper to rent a 450kg ultralight just to build up the hours for his CPL eventually but to keep his ppl current he would have to rent something else occasionally.

Once a month I want to be able to say on friday week I am flying from somewhere around londan to ireland (home) (or mybe a trip further away to europe or somewhere) and back on monday morning in , someting that will take 2 people, cruise at 130-140 mph and be able to legally take enough fuel for trip and not cost too much I some of the new aircraft like the zodiacs cost about 70k (well equiped) and burn about 20 litres an hour and even if i had to purchase outright myself it wouldnt be too expensive to run if other people would take shares to use it the other 3 weekends a month.

I would not mind if i thought ocasionally I will have cancel the trip or to stay another day because of the weather/wind. What i now think is about 50% of the time i will have to canel or stay an extra day or 3 and that is no good to me.

Im sure if i had loads of money and all sorts of ratings and a nice expensive aircraft I could have a 99.9% chance of flying on any given day. Unfortunately i will never be in that position. I just want it as a hobby and want it to give me a bit more freedom than going commercial but as already mentioed here if its too expensive there is no point in doing it.

[englishal]

I reckon people give up because:

Hassle factor
If you rent from a club you get loads of hassle.

Examples that have happened to me include: You book a 2 hr slot and the aeroplane comes back late and needs to be refueled. The transponder has been removed and put into another aeroplane as they are using it for instruction. The plane you booked has got tits so you're shoved in a grotty replacement. The VOR has stopped working. You need to fly 3 hrs per day. etc....

Cost
For the privilege of the above you are charged £130+ per hour plus a £30 landing fee

Boredom
During your 2 hr slot you are limited to certain airfields. So you fly into the same one again for that expensive burger. And you know the route well so you are relaxed, but it does get boring. You cannot train for further ratings due to the ALL or NOTHING approach of UK flight training. You thought about starting on the IR but a) you have to work for a living and b) suddenly the costs jump by £50 per hour for the instructor to train you. The result is you don't bother.

The only way to address the first two points are to get your own share. I bought a share and it is the best thing ever - my aeroplane is not particularly expensive to buy / own / operate, and there is NO hassle factor. I just turn up, wheel it out of the hangar and off I go...stopping over night if I want. Costs are minimal and fuel burn is only about 31 litres per hour.

For the last one, well having a share helps, with not being limited to daily minimums. I also head off to the USA several times a year for a completely different type of flying. Whereas in the UK my flying is mostly SE VFR due to aeroplane and equipment limitations, last night I had a great IFR flight in California in a DA42 with 100hrs on the clock and all the bells and whistles - (Nexrad, XM, traffic etc...) at night, 1000'OC with frontal weather, hand flying in moderate turbulence, rain so hard it was like a freight train hammering on the cockpit and it was FUN and cost me no more than a crappy PA28 in the UK.

There is a place in California which now rents brand new DA40's (Avgas) with G1000 / traffic / XM etc (possibly with Synthetic Vision - amazing piece of kit) for $99 per hour DRY. With careful flying and lots of airports the fuel can be kept to under $40 per hour - so for $140 per hour you get a mean machine with all the mod cons and get to see some interesting places. Anyone who is bored of flying in the UK should really consider a flying holiday in the USA.

[Squeegee Longtail]

The reasons people stop flying is surely as varied as the reasons people start.

Personally, I wanted to fly since as young as I can remember (3 I think). I used to read all the books on the RAF and wartime pilots as a kid. Later I would read Richard Bach, St Exupery books etc. I had a dream, as you could say.
Sadly medical reasons stopped me from RAF flying duties, and even a commercial career in flying.
The dream was still there as soon as I could afford (just) to take my PPL though. I passed in 1988 and had 12 great years spending everything I had (after living expenses) on flying, gaining ratings and flying wherever I was based in the world. I had a 1/3 share in a beautiful Stampe, and rented complex tourers. I could not contemplate life without flying.

Suddenly, at a medical renewal, I learned that my condition (unchanged since birth) would no longer be allowed for a CAA certificate. So overnight, I stopped.
I was so bitter and twisted for a while towards the CAA, but eventually just moved on with life.

Nearly 9 years on and I need to fly again. The JAA medical limitations still prevent me from gaining their "honoured" standard (on a ridiculous technicality). Thank goodness the FAA use common sense. I am nearly through an FAA IR course. (Still want a Stampe again though).

If it's in your blood, you'll always look up to the sky. You can walk away, but you'll be back.

[RotaryPilotUK]

schools generally dislike ex students hanging around because they are seen as usurping the instructors' authority which "must" be total and unquestioned. I was pushed out pretty fast myself after I got the PPL and stopped renting and bought my plane ... As for "messing around" with the school's existing or past customers, that is out of the question and would have to be done off the airfield. And the "post qualification" line is a tough one to stick to because let's say you meet up with 3 pilots, and one of them hasn't yet got his PPL. Do you tell him to leave the room? You would just have to hope he keeps his mouth shut. Tricky!

Is this just a fixed-wing phenomenon?

From my (admittedly limited) experience of helicopter flight schools, they all positively encourage students to mix with and learn from current PPLs. And once you have the license in your hand, far from pushing you out they do all they can to keep you coming back and renting aircraft.

There does seem to be a noticeable difference in personality type between fixed wing instructors and helicopter instructors.

[thomsonpop]

My solution was to take up competition aerobatics as soon as I passed my PPL.

Like most of us, from a very young age I had been fascinated by aeroplanes and I had always wanted to learn to fly. I thoroughly enjoyed my PPL training, largely due to the satisfaction and interested to be gained from learning something new.

However, the thought of spending the rest of my days flying a PA28 from my local airfield to another in a straight line just because I could chilled me to my core. Gliding only offered the chance to stand around on a cold airfield all day listening to some old boys banging on about their flying experiences, with very little actual flying being possible even on a good day.

Aerobatics provides me with constant exhilaration every time I fly, constant learning of new and challenging skills over and above just air experience, the opportunity to fly interesting, high performance aircraft and friendship with a vibrant and likeminded crowd of fellow competitors whom I consider to be great friends.

I am fairly unusual in the aerobatic world in that I don't own a share, but rent something suitable - this allows me to fly as and when funds allow without a large financial outlay. Even so, I don't consider aerobatics to be excessively expensive. I fly about 30 hours per year in 30 minute bursts.

Cross country flying is a necessary part of getting to the contests, but I consider it to be just that, a necessity. If that constituted my main flying activity, I would have given up long ago.

CC

[Imperator1300]

I think we give up for many different reasons:

• Lack of money;
• Lack of time time;
• Family (fed up with planning trips that don't happen);
• Boredom (going around in circles 'locally');
• Old and 'scabby' aircraft;
• Frustration (mainly caused by weather, but also the admin of medical etc);
• Lack of confidence;
• Desire to do other things;

After 30 years of private flying I have experienced all of the above at one time or another. However, still flying (just)

Imperator1300

[GroundBound]

I'm on the point of giving up

Approaching 300 hours - the club is OK, the a/c are OK, the finances are OK, but my hours have dropped from 35/yr to about 12 this year.

It started over a year ago when I did some aerobatic training with some highly qualified people. I think, then I realised what a crap pilot I was. Also, on one occasion, by the time I had realised that the situation looked like a developing spin, the instructor had already initiated recovery.

In short - loss of confidence.

When I regained my licence a few years ago, I thought I would never "not enjoy" flying, but somehow the fun has gone out of it. As whirly said - time just moves on!

GB

[DavidHoul52]

Seems a shame! Perhaps you are being too hard on yourself? Did the course not include spin-recovery?

[GroundBound]

Indeed it did - recovery from incipent spin and recovery from unusual attititudes (e.g. falling out of a loop). The difference being one is prepared for the spin and the recovery. In this case I was (to my mind) slow in recognising the developing spin. This realisation knocked the stuffing out of my confidence - hence no desire to go back up there.

GB

[DavidHoul52]

Spin training not my favourite cup of tea either. My problem was instinctively recovering (by releasing back pressure) before letting the spin develop. Once you are in a spin there's no mistaking it - and you can recover quickly in most planes - providing of course, that you are at a decent height.

I find flying enjoyable enough without aerobatics. If you have 300 hours you must be a very experienced pilot. Standard stall recovery should be enough for any situation you find yourself in normal flying.

[pronane]

I fly around 35 hrs per year,if I had to hire it would cost around £4500-5000/year.
As a retired person I doubt I could justify these hours/costs in a hired plane, so would gradually reduce flying until I became out of currency,unsafe etc or just stopped flying.

Flying with my group it costs around £1500/year all in,which makes flying affordable whenever I wish to go.
Unless you are able to earn and spend a lots of money, I can't see how you can better group flying.
The other bonus is that there are a number of co-owners to discuss any problems etc and a sort of camaraderie within the members.

How often do you get to fly within the year? Do you get the chance to take it for the weekend for example?

patfitz, i read your post and I found myself thinking exactly the same as the paragraph re:flying home etc. I think people interested like myself (as its still only a thought of whether or not I will do the PPL) probably don't realise 2 years down the line whats required and the novelty factor is lost, due to being unable to do things that they wanted - thats only a guess as I haven't a clue, but I know that if I got the PPL and wasn't able to do some of the things you suggested I would just get fed up....

Reading this thread has made me wonder whether its worth the investment both financial and effort to get a PPL!!

[IO540]

Reading this thread has made me wonder whether its worth the investment both financial and effort to get a PPL!

Firstly, you need to be able to afford it. The mystical desire to take to the skies doesn't cut it in the real world. If you are financially struggling to do each lesson, then forget it. You need some 10 grand to get the PPL, then another 10 grand to do some serious flying, and after that you will have an idea of whether it is for you or not. It can be done on less, especially in the USA, but not that much less.

Next, why are you doing it? Do you want to do something specific e.g. aerobatics or long distance routing? If so, these are definite objectives which can be met. But most people who enter the PPL sausage machine don't seem to have such objectives; these are the ones who tend to give up early.

I learnt to go places and have never regretted all the hassle for one moment. But I would do it differently if I was doing it again.

[rans6andrew]

You don't need anywhere near 10 grand to get a licence, in the UK, you just need to aim a little different. I was going to say lower but that would not be correct. Microlight licences require from 25 hours tuition (some students do get through in the minimum time) at about 130 pounds an hour, in a modern, capable 3 axis machine. Add in books, ground school and some landing fees and you could be sorted for less than 4 grand. After this, basic aircraft can be bought from about 3 grand and running costs are not much more than fuel and insurance. 15 ltrs Mogas an hour in my thirsty 2 stroke! The machine is easy to fly and cheap to repair so I don't pay for any hull insurance (the expensive bit) and third party only comes to a couple of hundred pounds a year, that is less than some flying club memberships, I hear.

Much better to do a lot of cheap hours than struggle to reach the minimum hours in an expensive machine. I would not be flying 60 to 70 hours a year if I was paying club hire rates and sticking to club rules about return times.

[DavidHoul52]

Its a bit like having and bringing up children - much more frustrating and expensive than you ever thought. But ultimately extremely satisfying and you are never quite the same person again!

[IO540]

I am sure this one has been done to death earlier in this thread or in one of the many similar ones, but any long term residence in the self fly hire scene is the most likely death of one's flying career.

It results in the highest possible marginal cost, usually the most restrictive access for going away somewhere, usually (not always; there are significant exceptions in some places) get you flying the most decrepit old junk around which makes prospective passengers cringe, and you never quite know what somebody has done to it previously.

The best thing someone can do is commit as early as possible to a syndicate, or buy outright. And this must be true whether working in the certified scene, or in the microlight/etc (VFR-only) scene.

[pronane]

the thing is that is a lot different to what was posted by other members on a different thread - originally posted by myself.

I am intrigued as to hear more from rans6andrew!

[rans6andrew]

Hi Pronane, I am glad that someone has noticed my post.

Posts along those lines from others rarely get mention. The usual thing is for PPL's look down their noses at microlights and the homebuilt sector of flying. That is, until they find out that there is good flying beyond the spam can/GA school environment. At the moment there is a trickle of PPL holders seeing the light and taking up microlight flying. Ironically, many microlight aircraft can be built as group A machines and this clouds the line between them so that you don't realise what you are looking at. Much microlight activity takes place away from licenced airfields, even training, and most are happy to use mogas and so don't need to call in to the GA fields for fuel. You don't know they are out there.

I have a theory that everyone thinks that they need a much more capable aircraft than they really do. One only needs an aircraft as quick as the slowest aircraft in the group that one flies with. Microlights are so cheap to run that everyone takes their own on outings, most passenger seats are given to non pilots.

If you want to send me a private message, Pronane, I'll can send you my email or phone number.

Andrew.

[S-Works]

I learnt to fly in the RAF, when I left I did nothing for 15 years. My wife bought be a microlight lesson and I did the PPL(M) in 25hrs. I flew about 300hrs in ML and became more and more frustrated at the lack of capability. I got bored of the UK and wanted to do what being able to fly gives you the greatest gift - to be able to get off this Island under your own steam.

So I went and did a PPL(A) and flew the club spam cans and as IO correctly points out I quickly realised that sticking around a club environment would strangle the life out of my flying so joined a group and discovered even more versatility. Liked it so much that I did the IMC and night, then an IR and an Instructor rating, accompanied by a few thousand hours of touring around Europe and the list goes on Now I fly a multi engine turboprop but still fly privately for fun as well.

Although cost is a driver for most people, I think the biggest reason people give up is a lack of confidence which leads to a lack of understanding of the real utility of aviation.

[IO540]

The usual thing is for PPL's look down their noses at microlights and the homebuilt sector of flying. That is, until they find out that there is good flying beyond the spam can/GA school environment.

I couldn't agree more, but the microlight/homebuilt scene is not the only "escape" from the generally crappy spamcan / school rental scene.

Just buying a decent plane and flying to places is a pretty damn good escape.

The microlight scene delivers an escape towards lower cost, which suits very many GA participants who are willing to do a pretty severe tradeoff between cost and mission capability.

But not everybody is strapped for cash, and the benefits of the microlight/homebuilt scene are for ever limited to VFR i.e. relatively fine weather, and (short of considerable hassle) flying within the UK only, which is likely to result in flying the same old burger runs.