Why do people give up?
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Regarding the customer service and attitude of rental and training establishment: While in training, I often felt that as a PPL student or a "sunday pilot" you're at the very rock bottom of the aviation food chain, just beneath the slime you find at the bottom of a spam can fuel tank... It is unfortunate, but it would be a shame to let that influence any decision to keep flying or not! You can still fly in such an environment, and it is probably easier to learn to adapt to it than to try and change it; at least if it is the flying you're interested in!
Regarding the "what to do" question: There is an awful lot one can do even in a 'mundane' rental PA28 or C172, but it might not be obvious what it is! It might take a bit of effort and imagination to find out how to improve on one's own, especially if one is not in a creative environment such as dont overfil describes. For instance, a place like See How It Flies is filled to the brim with interesting excercises that one might not have done during basic training; particularly the latter chapters. Those will certainly keep me busy for a good while, when time or other circumstances dictate nothing more than a brief local hop.
I really can't imagine how one could run out of interesting things to do; I could easily give a list of things that would last for several hundred hours of gradually more challenging and satisfying flying, even while remaining in a C172 within a couple hours distance from home...
How to keep improving as a pilot, or the lack of such improvement, is probably a big point in whether or not it is interesting enough to continue. If all one does is local bimbling and the occasional next airfield land-away, not because one enjoys that but because one can't think of anything else to do, or if one isn't even interested in improving, then it is unsurprising if one quits pretty soon...
Regarding the "what to do" question: There is an awful lot one can do even in a 'mundane' rental PA28 or C172, but it might not be obvious what it is! It might take a bit of effort and imagination to find out how to improve on one's own, especially if one is not in a creative environment such as dont overfil describes. For instance, a place like See How It Flies is filled to the brim with interesting excercises that one might not have done during basic training; particularly the latter chapters. Those will certainly keep me busy for a good while, when time or other circumstances dictate nothing more than a brief local hop.
I really can't imagine how one could run out of interesting things to do; I could easily give a list of things that would last for several hundred hours of gradually more challenging and satisfying flying, even while remaining in a C172 within a couple hours distance from home...
How to keep improving as a pilot, or the lack of such improvement, is probably a big point in whether or not it is interesting enough to continue. If all one does is local bimbling and the occasional next airfield land-away, not because one enjoys that but because one can't think of anything else to do, or if one isn't even interested in improving, then it is unsurprising if one quits pretty soon...
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flying schools....
There are a lot of comments about them. I think from knowing a few the main reason for their lousy facilities and tight way of doing business, that they hardly make money.
Yes it s true they could improve on their attitude, but i guess a lot of them have been worn down by having to do everything from a massive load of admin to serving the coffee and some flying in between.
Even the larger schools where some people go for their MEP/IR/CPL seem to suffer from the same: No money for a coat of paint, carpets from 10 years ago, a kitchenette which reminds us of the seventies, and a stack of pilot and flyer mags. Sad realy.....
I dont have the answer. Starting a school in a pleasantly maintained building with a fleet of new new aircraft, offices which are vacuumed twice a week and a real office manager to keep control on things, a decent stack of fresh maps and checklists, working headsets, a communal area which is inviting for pilots to chat together, a briefing room with orderly and modern facilities.... I gues that doesn t work... Sad....
There are a lot of comments about them. I think from knowing a few the main reason for their lousy facilities and tight way of doing business, that they hardly make money.
Yes it s true they could improve on their attitude, but i guess a lot of them have been worn down by having to do everything from a massive load of admin to serving the coffee and some flying in between.
Even the larger schools where some people go for their MEP/IR/CPL seem to suffer from the same: No money for a coat of paint, carpets from 10 years ago, a kitchenette which reminds us of the seventies, and a stack of pilot and flyer mags. Sad realy.....
I dont have the answer. Starting a school in a pleasantly maintained building with a fleet of new new aircraft, offices which are vacuumed twice a week and a real office manager to keep control on things, a decent stack of fresh maps and checklists, working headsets, a communal area which is inviting for pilots to chat together, a briefing room with orderly and modern facilities.... I gues that doesn t work... Sad....
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A loved one that was willing to come along and share the experience would be of tremendous value!!
I think IO540 makes some excellent points with regard to mentoring.
I'd like to see more airfields offering some reason to go there other than the proverbial £200 bacon sandwich. Some kind of organised event like a local treasure hunt, tour of somewhere intresting, go-karting etc.
I believe there's a rally driving school at Turweston but I've never seen it mentioned in any aviation magazine......
If I owned Turweston I'd be doing a deal with that school in order to try and drum up business for both parties.
Many have mentioned the "club" atmosphere, but perhaps here on prune it would be possible to create a National club. The more experienced amongst you who are willing could offer to attend "club" meetings at a central airfield and perhaps give a little talk on your personal views of how to improve the post PPL flying experience.
The regular contributors on here, IO540, Bose-X, Mike Cross, Fuji abound and others are the ones who obviously have quite a lot to say!
I've posted a story on here about mountain flying, and one of the main reasons for doing it was that I hoped it might motivate those who are struggling to keep flying and seek out new challenges.
Money may be a factor, but I think stimulation at destination is a bigger one.
I think IO540 makes some excellent points with regard to mentoring.
I'd like to see more airfields offering some reason to go there other than the proverbial £200 bacon sandwich. Some kind of organised event like a local treasure hunt, tour of somewhere intresting, go-karting etc.
I believe there's a rally driving school at Turweston but I've never seen it mentioned in any aviation magazine......
If I owned Turweston I'd be doing a deal with that school in order to try and drum up business for both parties.
Many have mentioned the "club" atmosphere, but perhaps here on prune it would be possible to create a National club. The more experienced amongst you who are willing could offer to attend "club" meetings at a central airfield and perhaps give a little talk on your personal views of how to improve the post PPL flying experience.
The regular contributors on here, IO540, Bose-X, Mike Cross, Fuji abound and others are the ones who obviously have quite a lot to say!
I've posted a story on here about mountain flying, and one of the main reasons for doing it was that I hoped it might motivate those who are struggling to keep flying and seek out new challenges.
Money may be a factor, but I think stimulation at destination is a bigger one.
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I just cannot imagine giving up flying. There have certainly been times of frustration. One always has to consider that the financial side will be a determining factor at some level for everyone in what they can afford in their flying.
There have been a few moments in my brief 4 years of flying were I can see that some would have given up, as the effort is simply too great. Immediately post PPL I remember turning up on many occasions, weather perfect, planning to head off into the blue, to find my craft given to someone else as not enough planes available. I understand this may be a priority for the club but I soon left to fly elsewhere. The more this sort of thing happens, the greater your drive has to be to keep going.
I find apart from the sheer enjoyment of flying, the greatest challenge is to try and continually improve my flying. The more I do, the further I find there is to go, and it is a never ending task. Each rating I have done I have found techniques and confidence improve.
My aim is to continue to fly faster and more complex craft but there is a point at which budget and time means that you have to settle for your level, and I think the post from Pace is all too true. I would like to fly the Citation but I am really very happy in the Arrow.
I found that joining a club, flying with friends, improving flying with ratings and moving to more complex craft has meant that the enthusiasm is now more than the first day I went solo.
At the end of the day and with all its potential frustrations I think that there is nothing that comes close to the challenges and enjoyment of private flying. What else allows you to challenge yourself taking a plane from North London to Le Touquet in 1 hour and then sit in the sun on a Saturday morning, in a different country drinking coffee. This is my favorite local bimble.
For me all the frustrations mentioned in this thread have been there at times, but once the wheels leave the ground it all goes away. There is nothing like it.
There have been a few moments in my brief 4 years of flying were I can see that some would have given up, as the effort is simply too great. Immediately post PPL I remember turning up on many occasions, weather perfect, planning to head off into the blue, to find my craft given to someone else as not enough planes available. I understand this may be a priority for the club but I soon left to fly elsewhere. The more this sort of thing happens, the greater your drive has to be to keep going.
I find apart from the sheer enjoyment of flying, the greatest challenge is to try and continually improve my flying. The more I do, the further I find there is to go, and it is a never ending task. Each rating I have done I have found techniques and confidence improve.
My aim is to continue to fly faster and more complex craft but there is a point at which budget and time means that you have to settle for your level, and I think the post from Pace is all too true. I would like to fly the Citation but I am really very happy in the Arrow.
I found that joining a club, flying with friends, improving flying with ratings and moving to more complex craft has meant that the enthusiasm is now more than the first day I went solo.
At the end of the day and with all its potential frustrations I think that there is nothing that comes close to the challenges and enjoyment of private flying. What else allows you to challenge yourself taking a plane from North London to Le Touquet in 1 hour and then sit in the sun on a Saturday morning, in a different country drinking coffee. This is my favorite local bimble.
For me all the frustrations mentioned in this thread have been there at times, but once the wheels leave the ground it all goes away. There is nothing like it.
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Perhaps we are looking at this the wrong way round. Perhaps we should look at who continues to fly. The LAA has a very large (by UK standards) membership, and the pilot element is relatively static, very low churn. Low cost, low hassle, fun flying which has no practical use, but lots of camaraderie and enjoyment.
When flying is allowed from unlicensed strips by enthusiast instructors perhaps the average PPL will find it easy transition. Most of the new PPL’s I come into contact with have no clue about this side of aviation because almost all LAA/BMAA style flying has abandoned the licensed airfields.
Rod1
When flying is allowed from unlicensed strips by enthusiast instructors perhaps the average PPL will find it easy transition. Most of the new PPL’s I come into contact with have no clue about this side of aviation because almost all LAA/BMAA style flying has abandoned the licensed airfields.
Rod1
Well said, Whirly - as always.
My story is very like Wycombe's up at the top. Competing demands for resources - time and money, have meant that flying has taken a back seat, for a while.
My story is very like Wycombe's up at the top. Competing demands for resources - time and money, have meant that flying has taken a back seat, for a while.
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A good debate, with excellent contributions 
A few things worth mentioning:
As with everything in life, one must keep one's targets achievable. No good wanting a TBM850 if you cannot afford one. AND no good buying a TBM850 even if you can afford one unless you have the mission profile to suit (loads of long range airways flying from A to B) and have the mental endurance required for the keeping of something half way to a 737 in complexity and maintenance issues. One very clever man I know chucked in flying permanently, having climbed all the way to an ATPL and a twin turboprop, saying he got sick of running an airline.
So, choose a plane (or a share in one) which is clearly affordable without being stretched.
A few things worth mentioning:
As with everything in life, one must keep one's targets achievable. No good wanting a TBM850 if you cannot afford one. AND no good buying a TBM850 even if you can afford one unless you have the mission profile to suit (loads of long range airways flying from A to B) and have the mental endurance required for the keeping of something half way to a 737 in complexity and maintenance issues. One very clever man I know chucked in flying permanently, having climbed all the way to an ATPL and a twin turboprop, saying he got sick of running an airline.
So, choose a plane (or a share in one) which is clearly affordable without being stretched.
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Other than the various reasons already stated (the dreaded money-time conundrum...), which are valid anywhere I think there's a couple of more UK-specific issues.
One is the generally not very welcoming (to put it charitably) atmosphere at many GA fields. Typically some grumpy old(ish) men hanging about and perhaps some soggy sandwiches served up in a filthy Portacabin. Contrast that to quite a few GA fields on the continent - to say nothing of the US - where you have a nice restaurant, friendly staff and a clean briefing room with internet access.
The second may well be the airspace structure in the UK and the anal attitude towards CAS transits. These are a non-event everywhere else I've flown, but akin to an audience with the Pope in the UK.
I guess most people who have the money and the desire to fly airplanes are rather successful in their 'normal' lives and don't like to be treated like stupid children and having to slum it on the creature comfort side.
One is the generally not very welcoming (to put it charitably) atmosphere at many GA fields. Typically some grumpy old(ish) men hanging about and perhaps some soggy sandwiches served up in a filthy Portacabin. Contrast that to quite a few GA fields on the continent - to say nothing of the US - where you have a nice restaurant, friendly staff and a clean briefing room with internet access.
The second may well be the airspace structure in the UK and the anal attitude towards CAS transits. These are a non-event everywhere else I've flown, but akin to an audience with the Pope in the UK.
I guess most people who have the money and the desire to fly airplanes are rather successful in their 'normal' lives and don't like to be treated like stupid children and having to slum it on the creature comfort side.
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I guess most people who have the money and the desire to fly airplanes are rather successful in their 'normal' lives and don't like to be treated like stupid children and having to slum it on the creature comfort side.
I recall reading some "letters" in Flight Training News, written by instructors, who were viciously scathing of students turning up in a BMW Z4 (or whatever) with a "blonde bird" and who were (I assume) expecting some kind of high standard from their instructor and the business he was working at. This attitude is very widespread among instructors - these kinds of customers are not fools and don't suffers fools, and need to be handled differently.
I think the biggest challenge GA faces is that the population is no longer in the 1960s/70s driving Vauxhall Vivas and Hillman Hunters and Mk1 Cortinas. Expectations have improved dramatically since those days when people just accepted all kinds of crap and were grateful. Yet GA is still for the most part stuck in the goode olde 1960s.
Doing something about the social scene would be a good start. Inevitably though this would involve welcoming back some pilots who are no longer potential customers for the business (the "flying club") and this is a bit of an attitude challenge for most of these businesses. One cannot build a social scene purely around those who are likely to spend more money at the school - the natural post-PPL attrition rate means there are too few people to draw on.
Towards the end of my UK training I used to hang out at one establishment (long gone now) where the CFI knew about these issues and went about providing facilities for post-PPL pilots. Bar, flight planning, weather, etc. But it never happened. Non customers got excluded fast, and after that there was almost nobody left.
I agree with most of the sentiments above - After 12 years and 320 hours, I have just given up (in July this year) for a number of reasons:
The cost - If you cannot afford to spend enough money on your hobby, then it ceases to satisfy as your skills decline. I reckon "enough" for me was about £2000 pa. Plus the cost of fuel is silly and the consumption makes me feel guilty even if I can afford it.
The time - you need to have access to an aircraft without a ninety minute drive to the airfield, or else you can spend most of Saturday doing 55 minutes airborne.
Access to aircraft - I used to own a share (with a great set of guys) and had ready access to the strip a mile away, so could fly for 20 mins in an evening. I now live in central London and have a long journey to fly. I have also been hiring a club aircraft which has the limitations above - and keeping current to club standards can be quite restrictive.
Frustration - the constraints and costs placed on us are continually increasing such as JAR FCL, airspace constraints, Mode S - if you are in any way discouraged by the above three, these add to it!
NB I learned (in 1995/96) at a great school (RFC Bourn) who treated me just right and trained me very well with a good atmosphere, so no complaints there.
The cost - If you cannot afford to spend enough money on your hobby, then it ceases to satisfy as your skills decline. I reckon "enough" for me was about £2000 pa. Plus the cost of fuel is silly and the consumption makes me feel guilty even if I can afford it.
The time - you need to have access to an aircraft without a ninety minute drive to the airfield, or else you can spend most of Saturday doing 55 minutes airborne.
Access to aircraft - I used to own a share (with a great set of guys) and had ready access to the strip a mile away, so could fly for 20 mins in an evening. I now live in central London and have a long journey to fly. I have also been hiring a club aircraft which has the limitations above - and keeping current to club standards can be quite restrictive.
Frustration - the constraints and costs placed on us are continually increasing such as JAR FCL, airspace constraints, Mode S - if you are in any way discouraged by the above three, these add to it!
NB I learned (in 1995/96) at a great school (RFC Bourn) who treated me just right and trained me very well with a good atmosphere, so no complaints there.
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I think one good solution to the cost issue would be for a bunch of fresh PPLs to get together and start a syndicate.
Most, myself included, who look for shares just look for existing ones. I don't think it occurs to most people that they could start a fresh one.
Unfortunately the school discourages this thinking because they want people to keep self fly hiring - resulting in the highest ever marginal flying cost. The marginal cost of flying 1hr in my newish TB20 is less than the cost of doing it in a rented C152! I got absolutely NO help from any of the instructors when I was asking about different planes.
And then the people you got to know on the course disperse and you never see most of them again. Of those 20 or so people I got to know during training, only one hung around in any way afterwards.
So the time to set up a syndicate is as soon as possible.
The typical GA wreck is worth only £25k which is almost nothing for a group of 10 people who presumably had the budget to get a PPL for about £10k each. And for 2x that you could get something pretty good in today's market; a very well equipped Archer for example. One should get the whole airways kit for that money (though not any great capability like FL200).
Most, myself included, who look for shares just look for existing ones. I don't think it occurs to most people that they could start a fresh one.
Unfortunately the school discourages this thinking because they want people to keep self fly hiring - resulting in the highest ever marginal flying cost. The marginal cost of flying 1hr in my newish TB20 is less than the cost of doing it in a rented C152! I got absolutely NO help from any of the instructors when I was asking about different planes.
And then the people you got to know on the course disperse and you never see most of them again. Of those 20 or so people I got to know during training, only one hung around in any way afterwards.
So the time to set up a syndicate is as soon as possible.
The typical GA wreck is worth only £25k which is almost nothing for a group of 10 people who presumably had the budget to get a PPL for about £10k each. And for 2x that you could get something pretty good in today's market; a very well equipped Archer for example. One should get the whole airways kit for that money (though not any great capability like FL200).
Last edited by IO540; 5th Oct 2008 at 07:29.
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In the Netherlands, based at Lelystad, we have a group called the "Diamond Flyers". It's a group, but it's not limited to one plane. Basically, when they have enough new prospective members, they buy an additional Diamond. I think they're up to five or six now.
Regardless of what you think about the DA-40 TDI in general, it is a new plane with a modern instrument panel and relatively frugal fuel consumption - more appealing than a 1960 Piper or Cessna that hasn't been updated in between.. The way the group is run also makes it easy for new members to join and for old members to leave. And since it's not for profit, it's rather cheap too.
Oh, and aircraft availability is even better than in a one-plane group of course.
Regardless of what you think about the DA-40 TDI in general, it is a new plane with a modern instrument panel and relatively frugal fuel consumption - more appealing than a 1960 Piper or Cessna that hasn't been updated in between.. The way the group is run also makes it easy for new members to join and for old members to leave. And since it's not for profit, it's rather cheap too.
Oh, and aircraft availability is even better than in a one-plane group of course.
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Setting up a syndicate leads to lower marginal hour costs, but the actual cost per annum is still pretty high, isn't it? For those who only fly maybe 20 - 30 hours per year, is it really an option?
I think a well functioning self-hire facility, be it a commercial operation or a member-owned flying club, is probably the most hassle free and convenient way to fly... It can be done! Ours work really well; we're about 200 more or less active members sharing 6 aircraft, 3 of which are less than 10 years old and only 1 of which is more than 20 years; far from "the typical GA wreck". Most are well equipped and in good condition; four of the six have panel mount GPS (one has two), autopilots and are IFR capable. Availability is quite ok, probably because quite a few members don't fly very much. Facilities at the airfield are fine. No need for club members to worry about things like maintenance, economy, engine funds etc unless they want to. Marginal hour cost and yearly membership fee pretty high by our standards (still seems low by UK standards), but investment and economical risk is very low (€700 interest free membership loan).
If it can be done here, it should be possible elsewhere. I wouldn't want to do it any other way until I have a good bit more experience and know what it is I enjoy most.
I think a well functioning self-hire facility, be it a commercial operation or a member-owned flying club, is probably the most hassle free and convenient way to fly... It can be done! Ours work really well; we're about 200 more or less active members sharing 6 aircraft, 3 of which are less than 10 years old and only 1 of which is more than 20 years; far from "the typical GA wreck". Most are well equipped and in good condition; four of the six have panel mount GPS (one has two), autopilots and are IFR capable. Availability is quite ok, probably because quite a few members don't fly very much. Facilities at the airfield are fine. No need for club members to worry about things like maintenance, economy, engine funds etc unless they want to. Marginal hour cost and yearly membership fee pretty high by our standards (still seems low by UK standards), but investment and economical risk is very low (€700 interest free membership loan).
If it can be done here, it should be possible elsewhere. I wouldn't want to do it any other way until I have a good bit more experience and know what it is I enjoy most.
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After 30 years flying encompassing the whole spectrum of SFH, outright ownership and several different shares, I have settled down to a 1/3 share in a brand new LAA type which does 100 kts on mogas, lives one mile away and has a marginal operating cost that is so cheap I can ignore it. I have not flown in a club environment for many years now and have no particular wish to. I do however manage to fly often albeit usually a 20 minute bimble on the way home from work on the rare sunny days. The capital cost was quite high but at least having got the aircraft I do not even have to think about the cost of using it. This setup works perfectly for me.
At the other extreme, I discovered rotary flight a few years ago and wound up by buying a helicopter. That is another story cost wise.............
At the other extreme, I discovered rotary flight a few years ago and wound up by buying a helicopter. That is another story cost wise.............
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I think one good solution to the cost issue would be for a bunch of fresh PPLs to get together and start a syndicate.
Most, myself included, who look for shares just look for existing ones. I don't think it occurs to most people that they could start a fresh one.
I got absolutely NO help from any of the instructors when I was asking about different planes.
The typical GA wreck is worth only £25k which is almost nothing for a group of 10 people who presumably had the budget to get a PPL for about £10k each. And for 2x that you could get something pretty good in today's market; a very well equipped Archer for example. One should get the whole airways kit for that money (though not any great capability like FL200).
Most, myself included, who look for shares just look for existing ones. I don't think it occurs to most people that they could start a fresh one.
I got absolutely NO help from any of the instructors when I was asking about different planes.
The typical GA wreck is worth only £25k which is almost nothing for a group of 10 people who presumably had the budget to get a PPL for about £10k each. And for 2x that you could get something pretty good in today's market; a very well equipped Archer for example. One should get the whole airways kit for that money (though not any great capability like FL200).
I tried to get a group together to buy a 2 seat, all metal (park outside), PT CofA, semi aerobatic
, aeroplane which would be cheap to run for pottering about (115hp engine).. had some NAV aids, so I believe could do partial panel training for the IMC on it, but you could also do a bit more with it..AOPA aero's certificate. Renewals and further training could be done on it, and all you'd need to do is hire the instructor - making improving & maintaining your skills cheaper.What's more...when I showed the details to my instructor he agreed that it was probably the most sensible aeroplane I'd looked at (I'd been thinking about it for about a year before I qualified)
It was cheap enough that I could just about buy it myself, but the estimated fixed costs would have needed sharing if I wanted to fly MORE than I do at the moment by hiring.
A group of 5 would have been £3.5 to £4k capital, about £100-110 pm and between £55 & £65 ph wet depending how much surplus funds we wanted to build as a group for mode S, resprays and avionics upgrades etc without having cash calls.....
ABSOLUTELY NO RESPONSE....
Certainly at my old school there seem to be 2 camps of people..... Those that have IFR tourers or those that have cheap to fly bimblers.. There's nothing in between which may give you more scope to play....
Needless to say.... I'm still renting.
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MG - my only assumption about people wanting to go places was in the type I mentioned (Archer). Exactly the same idea would apply to an aerobatic type.
The Diamond DA40 offers a lower operating cost but the capital cost makes it that much harder to set up a group.
The trick, as you found, is getting the crowd together. And then getting them to put money where their mouth is.
The other challenge, resulting from airfield/school politics, is that it is hard to do this within the confines of a flying school/club. In general, the people doing this need to get away from that whole cosy scene (where they ask their instructor whether the weather is OK to fly, etc) before they can make that move. They will be treated as "traitors" afterwards and most know it.
The Diamond DA40 offers a lower operating cost but the capital cost makes it that much harder to set up a group.
The trick, as you found, is getting the crowd together. And then getting them to put money where their mouth is.
The other challenge, resulting from airfield/school politics, is that it is hard to do this within the confines of a flying school/club. In general, the people doing this need to get away from that whole cosy scene (where they ask their instructor whether the weather is OK to fly, etc) before they can make that move. They will be treated as "traitors" afterwards
and most know it.
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I was interested Mad Girl! - right up to the point I picked up a calculator and realised owning a share was not about saving money but a way of flying without dealing with the pitfalls of renting.
But back to topic...
People give up and whilst it may be a shame, I'm so very glad they do!. If everyone kept at it I'd never be able to hire an aircraft, have to forever circle the field waiting to land, deal with an overloaded ATC ALL the time (happy days) and get much less of a FIS than we enjoy just now 
. Plus the prospects of the ever increasing traffic in the available airspace is a frightening prospect. 
Well done Mr, Miss or Mrs PPL you achieved it, not many do! Now, I know a really nice bloke who teaches scuba diving....
- right up to the point I picked up a calculator and realised owning a share was not about saving money but a way of flying without dealing with the pitfalls of renting.But back to topic...
People give up and whilst it may be a shame, I'm so very glad they do!
. If everyone kept at it I'd never be able to hire an aircraft, have to forever circle the field waiting to land, deal with an overloaded ATC ALL the time (happy days) and get much less of a FIS than we enjoy just now . Plus the prospects of the ever increasing traffic in the available airspace is a frightening prospect. Well done Mr, Miss or Mrs PPL you achieved it, not many do! Now, I know a really nice bloke who teaches scuba diving....
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Which is where ??? Sounds like a good setup 
So a tad far-ish for most PPruNers I'm afraid (but do stop by if you're in the area!).