Oban/Glenforsa News
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I was involved in the tender process last year. We did not get it. Part of the councils tender objective, to be done by the party that won the flight contracts, was to put in place a decent, 21st century marketing campaign. Our proposal incorporated this. They did not want to know when the tenders were evalutuated. We had incorporated a full web based on line ticket system, plus an optimisation of the web stages to promote more business. We also incorporated a liveried shuttle bus to Oban to attract the southerners. Again they threw it out.
They are idiots, all of them, and not at all interested in the promotion of the place. Do not be fooled, it is a wipe eyes project.
And not for the feint hearted our tender proposal was half of the team that one it. There were only three tenders.
The place could work very well, if only people with intelligence, commitment, and a savvy of common sense got involved, not by running it like a mini heathrow though.
Anyway, I am one of the camp that still go, despite the bollox, only to support PK.
They are idiots, all of them, and not at all interested in the promotion of the place. Do not be fooled, it is a wipe eyes project.
And not for the feint hearted our tender proposal was half of the team that one it. There were only three tenders.
The place could work very well, if only people with intelligence, commitment, and a savvy of common sense got involved, not by running it like a mini heathrow though.
Anyway, I am one of the camp that still go, despite the bollox, only to support PK.
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To support PK. Don't make me laugh. He has been a big cause of a lot of issues with the airport since it was upgraded. Only interested in 'his cut'.
Good to see Border doing sight seeing flights from Oban. Good on them. Nice to see they have done it properly too. Oban seems to have been a place for dodgy charters in the past. I wish Border the very best.
Good to see Border doing sight seeing flights from Oban. Good on them. Nice to see they have done it properly too. Oban seems to have been a place for dodgy charters in the past. I wish Border the very best.
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I don't think they will be doing sight seeing flights as this requires an AoC.
And I would suspect they would have sod all chance of getting any routes approved in that area in a single even if they did have a A to A AOC.
They may run a satallite training base when there is enough demand for trial flights and locals wanting lessons though. Although this is fairly easy to do as a RTF. It might get quite hard when everyone has to become a RTO. So enjoy it while it lasts.
Unfortunately for some if the PK supporters did stop going there would be a fraction of the extremely low number of movements that they have already.
Its quite an amusing stand off to be honest.
On the one hand you have quite a large customer base which wants to use the airport.
Then you have most of those customers refusing to go there because they don't like the rules.
It very similar to the village pub with a hated landlord. Nobody will drink there and the landlord wants to convert it into a house. But the locals won't let the planning permission go through because they want the pub just not the current landlord. Landlord can't sell because they won't get their investment back. So it's a huge Catch 22.
O aye and some auld biddy has a contract to supply all the pies to that pub. She has her faithfull customers who come for a very occassional pie but not as often as they would like. In fact if the landlord buggered off and never showed face again but just stood back and watched they would proberly go back to the old days of two pints and a pie every saturday lunch time instead of once a month if that.
And I would suspect they would have sod all chance of getting any routes approved in that area in a single even if they did have a A to A AOC.
They may run a satallite training base when there is enough demand for trial flights and locals wanting lessons though. Although this is fairly easy to do as a RTF. It might get quite hard when everyone has to become a RTO. So enjoy it while it lasts.
Unfortunately for some if the PK supporters did stop going there would be a fraction of the extremely low number of movements that they have already.
Its quite an amusing stand off to be honest.
On the one hand you have quite a large customer base which wants to use the airport.
Then you have most of those customers refusing to go there because they don't like the rules.
It very similar to the village pub with a hated landlord. Nobody will drink there and the landlord wants to convert it into a house. But the locals won't let the planning permission go through because they want the pub just not the current landlord. Landlord can't sell because they won't get their investment back. So it's a huge Catch 22.
O aye and some auld biddy has a contract to supply all the pies to that pub. She has her faithfull customers who come for a very occassional pie but not as often as they would like. In fact if the landlord buggered off and never showed face again but just stood back and watched they would proberly go back to the old days of two pints and a pie every saturday lunch time instead of once a month if that.
Last edited by mad_jock; 16th Aug 2012 at 18:46.
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As a GA user, what have the Council ever done for us ? Spent a whole load of money on things which most of us don't want or need, and played a big part in scaring away paying customers. Not necessarily the people who work at the airport itself, but the lords and masters in their comfortable junket laden offices.
PK may be like Marmite, you love him or hate him, but he certainly knew how to run a good GA airfield and put in place an atmosphere where people felt welcome and wanted to go, without all the bureaucratic jobsworth and health and safety nonsense which is a curse on today's UK society.
It is perfectly feasible to run small scale commercial operations alongside a healthy and active GA operation. I am sure the pilots flying the Islanders don't need to be treated like they were flying in and out of Heathrow with 'separation' from the GA aircraft also using the airfield, which is what is going on at the moment - even although the ground radio operators have no jurisdiction for anything in the air.
I still visit Oban, because I love the scenery, the airspace, and the facilities I can find there. I pop in to see PK for the Jammy Dodgers and fuel. I happily pay my landing fee with no malice to the airport staff. But I always come away thinking about the overkill, the waste of public money, and the politicos who obviously live in cloud cuckoo land.
PK may be like Marmite, you love him or hate him, but he certainly knew how to run a good GA airfield and put in place an atmosphere where people felt welcome and wanted to go, without all the bureaucratic jobsworth and health and safety nonsense which is a curse on today's UK society.
It is perfectly feasible to run small scale commercial operations alongside a healthy and active GA operation. I am sure the pilots flying the Islanders don't need to be treated like they were flying in and out of Heathrow with 'separation' from the GA aircraft also using the airfield, which is what is going on at the moment - even although the ground radio operators have no jurisdiction for anything in the air.
I still visit Oban, because I love the scenery, the airspace, and the facilities I can find there. I pop in to see PK for the Jammy Dodgers and fuel. I happily pay my landing fee with no malice to the airport staff. But I always come away thinking about the overkill, the waste of public money, and the politicos who obviously live in cloud cuckoo land.
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They provide separation? You're joking?! That is ridiculous. Surely the authorities would have something to say about that, amateur separation from untrained operators being more dangerous than none at all.
Border Air Trainngdo have an AOC MJ. Just checked.
Border Air Trainngdo have an AOC MJ. Just checked.
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Not separation as I would apply it in ATC, but the last couple of times I have been I have been advised by the radio operator along the lines that I may have to 'hold off clear of the airfield as the Islander is expected in the next 15 minutes'. Why ? As pilots, I am sure both myself and the Islander pilot can sort ourselves out in a VFR environment. In both cases, the Islander pilot reported on frequency still being 5-10 miles away whereas I was within a mile or two of the airfield. Begrudgingly (from the tone) I was 'allowed' to sneak in, although that would have been my responsibility and decision to make anyway 
I was well on my way to the Jammy Dodger stocks before he even appeared on final.
It's Oban, not Heathrow !!
I was well on my way to the Jammy Dodger stocks before he even appeared on final.It's Oban, not Heathrow !!
I love it when the Oban thread comes alive again. Great entertainment.
10w,
Given your background, did you have a word with "Oban ATC" after you landed?
Begrudgingly (from the tone) I was 'allowed' to sneak in, although that would have been my responsibility and decision to make anyway 
Given your background, did you have a word with "Oban ATC" after you landed?
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10W, this sort of faux ATC is prevalent in many A/G stations around the country. It is invariably caused by the person manning the radio having the silly idea that they have the remotest clue about what goes on in an aircraft!
The majority of these A/G operators have hardly ever been up in aircraft, let alone actually have licences.
The best thing to do is to simply ignore anything that they say and I've always gone up to the "tower" and had a quiet word afterwards and explained that I'll make the decisions about seperation when in that sort of environment thank you very much.
You should have shown them your super-duper controller badge and told them to STFU next time!
The majority of these A/G operators have hardly ever been up in aircraft, let alone actually have licences.
The best thing to do is to simply ignore anything that they say and I've always gone up to the "tower" and had a quiet word afterwards and explained that I'll make the decisions about seperation when in that sort of environment thank you very much.
You should have shown them your super-duper controller badge and told them to STFU next time!
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Yes it is.
To be fair they are simply reading from the text largely given to them by the 'gentleman' that got the place licenced. To that, they then add their own 'looking after one of ours'.
Generally it is not a problem, and explaining the rules to them is probably just going to confuse them. Compared with the other nonsense arrangements at Oban, it amuses me rather than causes problems.
To be fair they are simply reading from the text largely given to them by the 'gentleman' that got the place licenced. To that, they then add their own 'looking after one of ours'.
Generally it is not a problem, and explaining the rules to them is probably just going to confuse them. Compared with the other nonsense arrangements at Oban, it amuses me rather than causes problems.
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Why is it that it seems to be impossible to get a happy medium from A/G Operators? The vast majority tell you sweet FA - no traffic info, no wind checks etc. Then there's the faux ATC brigade.
NS
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I don't know about that.
There are some good ones out there. They tend to be all pilot license holders. I must admit though, so they just tell you what they would want to know.
And I suppose it doesn't fly that often gasaxso and will give you a 20 mins of amusment at least every time it comes in.
There are some good ones out there. They tend to be all pilot license holders. I must admit though, so they just tell you what they would want to know.
And I suppose it doesn't fly that often gasaxso and will give you a 20 mins of amusment at least every time it comes in.
Last edited by mad_jock; 17th Aug 2012 at 09:58.
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Oban/Glenforsa Follies
Air traffic control last weekend at Glenforsa overheard advising pilots that due to 'severe turbulence' they should fly through at 200ft, this of course is where the rotor is at it worst with a Southerly, ATC also warning of 'hundreds' of geese on the runway.
WW
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Stop calling them ATC it gives them ideas of grandure. Trumpton on the radio would be better.
And giving advise like that needs to be reported do it via chirp then it might have a chance of actually hitting someones desk that can do something about it. And it getting published.
And giving advise like that needs to be reported do it via chirp then it might have a chance of actually hitting someones desk that can do something about it. And it getting published.
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MORS are a waste of time there is something like 4 months worth waiting to get processed. To be honest its not even in the critria of a MOR unless I missed A/G operator was being a complete pillock last time I read the CAP on MOR's so they will be more than likely file along with all the other Oban MOR's about folk landing perfectly safely.
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I may be missing something here but I can understand the need for ATC. I can also see that AG is adequete in many places. However what is the point of an Aerodrome FISO?
D.O.
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Its for when you need to control them on the ground and issue clearances I think.
An Air ground can only give you information as they know it a FISO may be linked into area or another ATC service and be able to relay instructions from an ATCO.
An A/G operator certainly couldn't tell you to squawk xxxx but a FISO can tell you on the ground and request you do in the air.
I am sure 10w, Fisbangwallop or one of the other ATC types will be along to say I am talking ****e in a while
An Air ground can only give you information as they know it a FISO may be linked into area or another ATC service and be able to relay instructions from an ATCO.
An A/G operator certainly couldn't tell you to squawk xxxx but a FISO can tell you on the ground and request you do in the air.
I am sure 10w, Fisbangwallop or one of the other ATC types will be along to say I am talking ****e in a while
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Sorry MJ but you are incorrect.
I work AG and give Squawks and clearances on behalf of Scottish Control.
You are right about FISO giving taxiing clearances but how useful is that?
D.O.
Edited to say a FISO can give taxiing permission, not clearance.
I work AG and give Squawks and clearances on behalf of Scottish Control.
You are right about FISO giving taxiing clearances but how useful is that?
D.O.
Edited to say a FISO can give taxiing permission, not clearance.
Last edited by dont overfil; 17th Aug 2012 at 11:49.