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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V

Old 22nd Mar 2011, 12:33
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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LB
thanks for that link. It brought back some memories. Tebbit's memory of the way in which his changes to the laws were processed are somewhat selective, (I was involved in a tiny way in an employer), but that is beyond this thread.

In that programme, the overall reporting of the various strikes was massively simplified......The T & G and the G & M physically fought against the NUM, and fully supported the Notts fields, the NUM corruption isn't mentioned, the EETPU fully supported Murdoch, and so on.

Maybe, though, that programme does tell us how the BA strike will end. A bit like the Miners strike - the energy for the strike drained off in to the sand.
At least Untie hold ballots - which scargill refused to do.
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 13:10
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The only way this can be changed is will be a 9000 yes vote with a massive walkout. Does anybody think that this will happen?
NOOOOOOOOO Way. There will be a massive yes vote - 5500 ish but a massive walkout. No. If DH goes nuclear and goes for a 2 month all out, I believe no more than 2000ish will support him. I also think DH will go for a strike depite telling everyone last month he wouldn't. Easter and Will and Kate's big day out are too much temptation for him to resist.
What is interesting is that Unite seem at last to have got their figures right as 4 crew who I know who got a ballot form in Jan despite leaving months before, have this time not got one. ( However Unite do still send me annoying text messages - I've just got another right now!!)

Sadly I believe and hope there is another strike and a long one at that. Reason being is that IMO its the ONLY way this dispute is going to end, one way or the other.
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 13:30
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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There is a certainly a boil that needs to be lanced here. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the various issues at play, this corrosive dispute needs to be brought to an end. Someone needs to win this dispute so it can be put to bed and allow everyone to move on.

To that end perhaps the best thing would be a good old fashioned strike - not a 12 day or several 5 day "optional" strikes. Those who genuinely believe should have the courage of their convictions and get on with it. The support they need to win the strike will either materialise or not, but at least we would all know where we stood. This wishy-washy phoney-war period helps no-one, the strikers are no farther forward and BA is still suffering from the damage caused by the threat of IA. It is easy for the militants to prolong the dispute if all they are risking is a few days pay. Time for action!
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 14:02
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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@ Litebulbs

The only way this can be changed is will be a 9000 yes vote with a massive walkout. Does anybody think that this will happen?
Second answer first. No.

First part - if it happens there will be 9,000 redundancies and re-offered jobs under different T&C's, not a surrender by BA, as may be implied.

Even 9,000 strikers voting would not result in a change in BA as to do so, would be industrial suicide. Sacking 9,000 would be horrendous, but not as horrendous as the subsequent collapse of the airline when investors and managers realise it is being run for the benefit of the cabin crew and not those who actually own and fund the company.

That would make an interesting case study - given the relative ease by which a company can fold, and recreate itself under new management etc, could BA return to its one vaunted 'worlds favourite airline' status, by restructuring during a recession when its much easier to be brutal?
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 14:04
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Joao da Silva View Post
As far as I can see no-one has yet posted on subject.

This thread is indeed entitled BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V.

The content seems to be mainly about the minutiae of union branch governance.
Read more carefully...
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 14:05
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Has there been any recent news from the PCCC?
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 14:26
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Whilst not news I am happy to report that my partner joined the PCCC and very much enjoys the breath of fresh air that is their forum if nothing else. It isn’t back patting and agreement all round by any means, but the debate is respectful, constructive and informative.

She’s very happy that she switched.

"BASSA make a lot more noise and a lot less sense."
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 14:32
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Snas:

In our little forum that qualifies as news

I'm patiently waiting to see when and if PCCC is going to present a more public face. It is interesting to watch the process that may result in another negotiating force.
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 17:20
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I agree about wanting to hear more from PC3.

HiFlyer14 - et al - how is it going?
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 18:17
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Snas View Post
Whilst not news I am happy to report that my partner joined the PCCC and very much enjoys the breath of fresh air that is their forum if nothing else. It isn’t back patting and agreement all round by any means, but the debate is respectful, constructive and informative.

She’s very happy that she switched.

"BASSA make a lot more noise and a lot less sense."
Do the members keep it all secret like the leaders? Does anyone know where their funding is coming from exactly?
That is in no way an attack on PCCC I wish them luck if it's what the people want. Even if I disagree with a leadership that remains in hiding and have doubts over it's funding.
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 19:43
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Phewww ...

First, thanks to TightSlot for letting things run on. I do appreciate that.


Next, this is supposed to be an SLF Thread about the strike ... "Your Thoughts and Questions". Whilst I fully understand that the 'inner workings' of BASSA are germane, it would be nice to see some broader discussion on how the dispute [or whatever you call it] affects the SLF. Isn't that what this Thread's supposed to be about?

Such as, for starters, I'm forward booked all the way to October, and I don't give a sh 1t? Who else is ignoring, or otherwise, the MONSTER THREAT that is BASSA? Are they having any impact on BA? Do the SLF care one iota?

Do we have to spend our entire time micro-managing the inner workings of BASSA? That's where I, and I suspect TightSlot , have got bored with this. Until BASSA, or BA, or the High Court, have something to say of substance ... or individual PPRuNe members have something really relevant to say ...
can't we all just chill a bit?
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 19:57
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
Phewww ...

First, thanks to TightSlot for letting things run on. I do appreciate that.


Next, this is supposed to be an SLF Thread about the strike ... "Your Thoughts and Questions". Whilst I fully understand that the 'inner workings' of BASSA are germane, it would be nice to see some broader discussion on how the dispute [or whatever you call it] affects the SLF. Isn't that what this Thread's supposed to be about?

Such as, for starters, I'm forward booked all the way to October, and I don't give a sh 1t? Who else is ignoring, or otherwise, the MONSTER THREAT that is BASSA? Are they having any impact on BA? Do the SLF care one iota?

Do we have to spend our entire time micro-managing the inner workings of BASSA? That's where I, and I suspect TightSlot , have got bored with this. Until BASSA, or BA, or the High Court, have something to say of substance ... or individual PPRuNe members have something really relevant to say ...
can't we all just chill a bit?
Perfectly reasonable, except, that according to yourself and many others on here, it's not affecting them at all.
|I don't see why other aspects cannot be discussed if connected with the dispute during the lull. If people don't want to join in the discussion they are at liberty to either ignore it or move it politely into the direction they wish it go.
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 20:06
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Call100, that's a perfectly fair comment.

Perhaps we 'need' another thread [sorry, Mods] on the non-CC aspects of Union inner workings?

For myself, apart from a certain voyeuristic aspect on what/how Unions operate, I've largely lost interest. BASSA's activities won't affect my travel plans, in exactly the same way that they didn't around this time last year [exempt volcano]. Isn't that where we started, so long ago?

Personally I don't give a sh 1t ... BA will fly me from A to B as usual.
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 20:25
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Do the members keep it all secret like the leaders? Does anyone know where their funding is coming from exactly?
Well, I'm far from an expert on the inner working of the PCCC, but I do know there are no subs or union fees, therefore no funding.

The costs for the organisation to date must be tiny, a web site, a bit of printing perhaps and perhaps a professional fee here and there, nothing that would stretch the founders own pockets so far I would guess.
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 20:35
  #35 (permalink)  
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Certainly in the early stages it was funded by the founder members, the first web site being produced by one of them.

Since then, reading bits here and there some individuals have donated to the running costs.

What is absolutely certain, despite the BASSA spin, BA are not involved with the operation in any way!
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 21:45
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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I think Norman Tebbitt had a very good point when as a pilot he was taking part in a BOAC strike. The newsman commented about there being no pickets on the gate. "Well," said Norman "If you have to picket your own gate, you haven't got your message across."
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 22:24
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
Call100, that's a perfectly fair comment.

Perhaps we 'need' another thread [sorry, Mods] on the non-CC aspects of Union inner workings?

For myself, apart from a certain voyeuristic aspect on what/how Unions operate, I've largely lost interest. BASSA's activities won't affect my travel plans, in exactly the same way that they didn't around this time last year [exempt volcano]. Isn't that where we started, so long ago?

Personally I don't give a sh 1t ... BA will fly me from A to B as usual.
I can understand your point, but, it was 'SLF' who began to question the inner workings of the TU involved in the dispute that the thread was referring to. Title contains 'Your thoughts and questions'. With questions come answers that in themselves create more questions. So any thread is going to produce a modicum of thread drift, especially in the periods between ballots, results, and action (if any).
If, as you say, you don't give 'sh 1t', why not wait until the result is in and then rejoin the debate at a point that might interest you?
I don't think there will be any action in the future that will disrupt BA to any extent and they will deliver their services. So you are right not much has moved on for the regular and occasional (Me) BA pax. However different aspects of the dispute still create 'thoughts and questions' of interest to some.
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 22:35
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Originally Posted by west lakes View Post
Certainly in the early stages it was funded by the founder members, the first web site being produced by one of them.

Since then, reading bits here and there some individuals have donated to the running costs.

What is absolutely certain, despite the BASSA spin, BA are not involved with the operation in any way!
I didn't wish to infer BA funding......The questions still stand though.
They seem to be struggling to get to the 40% required position. I would have thought they would have been there by now.
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 22:42
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Dawdler

Mr Tebbitt's comments at the end really made me think and one conclusion it that he would be seen as a moderate today. The battles and challenges are no more than history now, but some of the legislation of that time were probably a good thing, but because of the polarised view and agendas of either side, no happy median could be found.

I am not and will probably never be a gold card holding First flying exec, so I will see things differently to most on this thread, but why would anyone want to work in a pit either?

This dispute is not about pit working, it is about redistribution of wealth. Do you need to pay a crew member any more than what the new hat wearing crew are on? Do you need a Mercedes or a Mondeo in the cabin? Only time will tell if BA will loose or gain customers because of its cabin crew.

No doubt there are a few on here who spend more in travel each year, than I get paid in a wage and I am in the top 10% so generally I will be in the minority, but it is still an interesting debate.
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 22:48
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Originally Posted by call100 View Post
I didn't wish to infer BA funding......The questions still stand though.
They seem to be struggling to get to the 40% required position. I would have thought they would have been there by now.
I doubt if they would have got 5000 signed up to their cause yet, as the current Unite membership is around 9000, but I have been wrong many times on here.

The big test will be if BA grant voluntary recognition. If they do, they will be seen as on side, if not then I imagine it will be a fair time yet until the PCCC are negotiating. Good luck to them anyway as they are listed as a union and better to have them in a TUC recognised union, than not!
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