Ryanair wants to sell tickets to STAND UP and fly
I'm sure that quite a number who do not know about the aviation regs will fall for this one.
But where is the certifying authority, in this case the IAA, making any statement about this. If they were making any attempt at proper oversight of the carrier they would have a press statement out 5 minutes after this nonsense appeared, saying that it is just not permissible. They might even have the Chief Executive of such a carrier in for a chat, to explain that if they show such a blatant misunderstanding of the regulations then they had better be subject to a little more oversight than before.
In fact I would suggest that as well as the Chief Executive, they require the Chairman to come along as well. Then Bonderman would have to trudge over from the US, and he would doubtless have a few choice words for Michael O'Stupidity afterwards .......
But where is the certifying authority, in this case the IAA, making any statement about this. If they were making any attempt at proper oversight of the carrier they would have a press statement out 5 minutes after this nonsense appeared, saying that it is just not permissible. They might even have the Chief Executive of such a carrier in for a chat, to explain that if they show such a blatant misunderstanding of the regulations then they had better be subject to a little more oversight than before.
In fact I would suggest that as well as the Chief Executive, they require the Chairman to come along as well. Then Bonderman would have to trudge over from the US, and he would doubtless have a few choice words for Michael O'Stupidity afterwards .......
Guest
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere between E17487 and F75775
Age: 80
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aviator330, this
why dont you just drug them into unconsciousness. Stack them like in a freighter fuselage. No need to serve drinks or make PA's, and the pile of bodies will keep warm without aircraft heating.
is already done by the French authorities at Perpignan, where departing passengers are kept standing for an hour in a room about half the size necessary to contain a 738 load, with no ventilation, water, food, or a/c: after you embark in a zombie-like fasion, and the plane lumbers into the air, you generally come back to some awareness of your surroundings somewhere north of Clermont-Ferrand.
Being 'drugged into unconsciousness' on FR937 would be a definite improvement.....
why dont you just drug them into unconsciousness. Stack them like in a freighter fuselage. No need to serve drinks or make PA's, and the pile of bodies will keep warm without aircraft heating.
is already done by the French authorities at Perpignan, where departing passengers are kept standing for an hour in a room about half the size necessary to contain a 738 load, with no ventilation, water, food, or a/c: after you embark in a zombie-like fasion, and the plane lumbers into the air, you generally come back to some awareness of your surroundings somewhere north of Clermont-Ferrand.
Being 'drugged into unconsciousness' on FR937 would be a definite improvement.....
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London
Age: 62
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone on R&N came up with a headline generator for incidents - you know, 'Terror at 80,000 feet as brave co-pilot bravely avoids crèche in jumbo 737"
We need one for Ryanair:
Big Issue now Ryainair in-flight magazine
O'Leary to do your mother with every flight, wheelbarrow if you want checked luggage
Ryanair stewardesses smelling of wee beg for 20p for a cup of tea
Toilet paper to be sold by the sheet on Ryainair from next winter
Ryanair begins recruiting in Brixton to develop a more assertive on-board selling approach - will split crack profits 50:50
It's lazy journalism - Lunchtime O'Toole stuff - and it demonstrates what a rag the Telegraph has become that they entertain such cockwaffle.
SO
We need one for Ryanair:
Big Issue now Ryainair in-flight magazine
O'Leary to do your mother with every flight, wheelbarrow if you want checked luggage
Ryanair stewardesses smelling of wee beg for 20p for a cup of tea
Toilet paper to be sold by the sheet on Ryainair from next winter
Ryanair begins recruiting in Brixton to develop a more assertive on-board selling approach - will split crack profits 50:50
It's lazy journalism - Lunchtime O'Toole stuff - and it demonstrates what a rag the Telegraph has become that they entertain such cockwaffle.
SO
Paxing All Over The World
MoL is going about this in his usual intelligent fashion and I'm NOT being sarcastic.
He knows full well that he has to change views in Boeing and the various national aviation authorites. You have to start small. Make an apparently outrageous statement and then keep plugging away it. Remember how many people thought that BA was 'the world's favourite airline'? Just keep saying it often enough and it begins to have it's own weight.
This could take ten years but that's OK because, in time, the CAA and others will sound like they are out of step. Backpackers will see 'stand-up flying' as a natural thing to do and a challenge as good as bungee jumping. "I travelled stand-up and my fare was only £2.00 all-in." No, I might not want to do stand-up but I'm a middle aged bloke who wants to snooze or read. Plenty of youngsters would lap this up. OK, so it might not work on the 738 (CofG), but there are other a/c that can be adapted.
This is a long game and FR are playing it with their usual brilliance. I never cease to admire them.
He knows full well that he has to change views in Boeing and the various national aviation authorites. You have to start small. Make an apparently outrageous statement and then keep plugging away it. Remember how many people thought that BA was 'the world's favourite airline'? Just keep saying it often enough and it begins to have it's own weight.
This could take ten years but that's OK because, in time, the CAA and others will sound like they are out of step. Backpackers will see 'stand-up flying' as a natural thing to do and a challenge as good as bungee jumping. "I travelled stand-up and my fare was only £2.00 all-in." No, I might not want to do stand-up but I'm a middle aged bloke who wants to snooze or read. Plenty of youngsters would lap this up. OK, so it might not work on the 738 (CofG), but there are other a/c that can be adapted.
This is a long game and FR are playing it with their usual brilliance. I never cease to admire them.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cardiff
Age: 48
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Will Ryanair get rid of pilots next?
Surely the next obvious economy for the Ryanairs of this world - after getting rid of cabin crew of course - would be to hand redundancy slips to its pilots.
Think of all the money that could be be saved, no salaries, no pensions to pay,no rosters to bother about - and it would eliminate all the mistakes and human errors made on the flight decks: -
This is what the New Scientist reported on June 28th:-
"WOULD you fly in an airliner knowing there were no pilots in the cockpit? This is no mere hypothetical question. The US Federal Aviation Administration this month kicked off what could be the first step in a journey towards the full automation of the airliners we all travel on."...
The full article is on Drone alone: how airliners may lose their pilots - tech - 28 June 2010 - New Scientist
...And the big bonus for us passengers is that we get to sit/stand in that nice comfy front seat with the best view in the plane.
Think of all the money that could be be saved, no salaries, no pensions to pay,no rosters to bother about - and it would eliminate all the mistakes and human errors made on the flight decks: -
This is what the New Scientist reported on June 28th:-
"WOULD you fly in an airliner knowing there were no pilots in the cockpit? This is no mere hypothetical question. The US Federal Aviation Administration this month kicked off what could be the first step in a journey towards the full automation of the airliners we all travel on."...
The full article is on Drone alone: how airliners may lose their pilots - tech - 28 June 2010 - New Scientist
...And the big bonus for us passengers is that we get to sit/stand in that nice comfy front seat with the best view in the plane.
Last edited by korrol; 2nd Jul 2010 at 07:29.
Make an apparently outrageous statement and then keep plugging away it
all it amounts to is lazy journalism and free PR for cheapo airline.
‘We polled about 120,000 passengers, 80,000 said they would consider the seats if they were free, 42 per cent said they would use the seats if the fare was half that of a traditional seat’
Thankfully this stupid idea will never see the light of day.
Paxing All Over The World
AndoniP
Yes it is also both of those but free publicity is free.
You might want to consider them below you - but they are people with money and aspirations.
I wouldn't take a bet on that. Come back and check within the next ten years.
all it amounts to is lazy journalism and free PR for cheapo airline.
- so there you have it. the underclasses have spoken.
Thankfully this stupid idea will never see the light of day.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tracey Island
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As MOL has only hijacked a Chinese idea the actual implementation or not would seem to be down to the Chinese regulators....I don't think they'll be too bothered about international regs on their internal flights.
Been around it long enough now to know never say never!!
Been around it long enough now to know never say never!!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Those who identify it as just another publicity stunt exploiting lazy journalism are 100% correct. As well as O'Leary another past master at this type of thing is Sir Richard Branson. Although his strategy is slightly different to O'Leary's in that he tries to get good publicity rather than simply any publicity as O'Leary does, there is the same tendency by newspapers to print Virgin's press releases pretty much verbatim and present them as "news."
Every so often Virgin will do a press release, e.g. about some futuristic project, and the media will slavishly print it, even if the "story" is pretty much identical to what was being reported (as the result of a previous Virgin press release) a few months or even a year or more ago.
Every so often Virgin will do a press release, e.g. about some futuristic project, and the media will slavishly print it, even if the "story" is pretty much identical to what was being reported (as the result of a previous Virgin press release) a few months or even a year or more ago.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Where its at
Age: 40
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Has anyone seen how tightly packed Ryanair's seats are? They could maybe save an inch or two a row at the most allowing for maybe six additional passengers. Doesn't seem economical, even if loads are consistently in the 90%'s. I am the price conscious type student traveller to which Paxboy alludes and personally I welcome anything which will allow me to travel more cheaply. However I really can't see how standing spaces would allow them to pack passengers in much more densely than they already are.
Removing the two rear toilets on the other hand could maybe give them an extra two rows of seats. Charging to use the remaining one would certainly reduce demand although I'm pretty sure that in the UK the law requires them to have a free lavatory if they wish to serve alcohol for consumption on the premises...
Removing the two rear toilets on the other hand could maybe give them an extra two rows of seats. Charging to use the remaining one would certainly reduce demand although I'm pretty sure that in the UK the law requires them to have a free lavatory if they wish to serve alcohol for consumption on the premises...
Last edited by Anansis; 2nd Jul 2010 at 19:11. Reason: Typo
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London
Age: 62
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PAXboy
You know your stuff, but it stretches one's credulity to think that even if the technical issues (meeting G regulations, stiffening the floor, preventing one's limbs from flailing and all that) could be met, what of operational problems?
I eavesdropped in on a conversation being made by a few bogans in the smoking section of my local tonight. One said that he'd find it "no problem - Dublin's only 50 minutes away". I would very much like to meet someone who's reached Dublin from a London airport on a commercial flight - and by that I mean the length of his occupancy of the aircraft - in 50 minutes.
I admire Mr O'Leary's business model, and I'd prefer that some people fly on airlines I won't use, because it drives down the price of my flights. Let's say I want to go to Berlin for two nights (alone).
Flights: £190
Accommodation: £200
U/S Bahn &c: £20
Food and drink: £150
Shopping: £300
Even if Ryanair gave the flights away for free, I'd rather burn the money on having a (relatively) hassle-free experience. Others, who are less jaded and have time on their hands, would jump at the chance.
So let him spruik his fantasies to his heart's content. In retrospect, I should be condoning this media feeding frenzy because it increases the odds that my chosen flight will be emptier. But the Telegraph?
SO
You know your stuff, but it stretches one's credulity to think that even if the technical issues (meeting G regulations, stiffening the floor, preventing one's limbs from flailing and all that) could be met, what of operational problems?
I eavesdropped in on a conversation being made by a few bogans in the smoking section of my local tonight. One said that he'd find it "no problem - Dublin's only 50 minutes away". I would very much like to meet someone who's reached Dublin from a London airport on a commercial flight - and by that I mean the length of his occupancy of the aircraft - in 50 minutes.
I admire Mr O'Leary's business model, and I'd prefer that some people fly on airlines I won't use, because it drives down the price of my flights. Let's say I want to go to Berlin for two nights (alone).
Flights: £190
Accommodation: £200
U/S Bahn &c: £20
Food and drink: £150
Shopping: £300
Even if Ryanair gave the flights away for free, I'd rather burn the money on having a (relatively) hassle-free experience. Others, who are less jaded and have time on their hands, would jump at the chance.
So let him spruik his fantasies to his heart's content. In retrospect, I should be condoning this media feeding frenzy because it increases the odds that my chosen flight will be emptier. But the Telegraph?
SO
Paxing All Over The World
I agree sea oxen, I agree. But I think that MoL/FR are on to a winner:
The reason for that is - whenever one group of people set up something in terms that 'it will never change' then another bunch will certainly change it!! Let me take an extreme example. The Iron Curtain. It was ALWAYS going to come down, it was only a question of when and how.
Would I want standing seats? No. Would I mind if they did it? No. I just think that it's nothing to be bothered about and I'll just enjoy watching FR being FR.
- They get the changes and sell more tickets and have fought the good fight for the customers. Yay for FR.
- They lose and tell the customers, "We tried but those pen-pushers won't let us. But here are some really great deals anyway." Yay for FR.
The reason for that is - whenever one group of people set up something in terms that 'it will never change' then another bunch will certainly change it!! Let me take an extreme example. The Iron Curtain. It was ALWAYS going to come down, it was only a question of when and how.
Would I want standing seats? No. Would I mind if they did it? No. I just think that it's nothing to be bothered about and I'll just enjoy watching FR being FR.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Inside
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ryanair's business model is an unsustainable one. It's a boom-and-fizzle-out model based on continually reducing the value of the product, both the actual and the perceived.
Everything about the company, from the colours to the uniforms to the website is designed to convey "cheapness". They have conditioned their customers into expecting the price of the product to become lower and lower. Once that can not be achieved any more the boom ends and the fizzle starts.
Judging by how they are seeking new revenue streams and are halting expansion that point is close to being reached, if it hasn't been already.
Everything about the company, from the colours to the uniforms to the website is designed to convey "cheapness". They have conditioned their customers into expecting the price of the product to become lower and lower. Once that can not be achieved any more the boom ends and the fizzle starts.
Judging by how they are seeking new revenue streams and are halting expansion that point is close to being reached, if it hasn't been already.
Paxing All Over The World
I don't agree One Outsider.
Yes, he does reduce the price but everyone knows that the number of really low priced tickets are far fewer than the medium and high priced ones. The main FR thread http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/345056-ryanair-questions-comments-bouquets-brickbats-merged.html (into which this will doubtless be merged) repeats often that BA can be lower on some routes. The trick of FR is that they try to serve routes with no competition, so people have to use them and, much documented, have been able to get serious subsidies from regional airfields and govts to operate there.
These subsidies have been reductions in landing fees or actual payments TO the airline, for operating there. So they are playing both ends into the middle and winning! There are also documented cases where, if the subsidy is not renewed after the first agreed period of time, they simply close the route and go. This is done to show other airports and regions that they are serious. Since those regions have benefited from FR bringing 1,000s of tourists and holiday home owners - they think it's a good price to pay.
Their grip on costs and getting the FC + CC to work for very little (in return for a leg up into the business) is second to none. Also, as I understand it, they have a purchase/sale/lease back arrangement on their a/c that has given them huge amounts of cash in the past. Yes, it is a recession but they have money being saved and money being earned in all directions.
Lastly, for anyone that gets fed up with them and swears 'never again' in a huffy voice - there are new customers delivered every year. All those 18 year olds leaving school and wanting to travel? Each year another batch for FR!
Yes, he does reduce the price but everyone knows that the number of really low priced tickets are far fewer than the medium and high priced ones. The main FR thread http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/345056-ryanair-questions-comments-bouquets-brickbats-merged.html (into which this will doubtless be merged) repeats often that BA can be lower on some routes. The trick of FR is that they try to serve routes with no competition, so people have to use them and, much documented, have been able to get serious subsidies from regional airfields and govts to operate there.
These subsidies have been reductions in landing fees or actual payments TO the airline, for operating there. So they are playing both ends into the middle and winning! There are also documented cases where, if the subsidy is not renewed after the first agreed period of time, they simply close the route and go. This is done to show other airports and regions that they are serious. Since those regions have benefited from FR bringing 1,000s of tourists and holiday home owners - they think it's a good price to pay.
Their grip on costs and getting the FC + CC to work for very little (in return for a leg up into the business) is second to none. Also, as I understand it, they have a purchase/sale/lease back arrangement on their a/c that has given them huge amounts of cash in the past. Yes, it is a recession but they have money being saved and money being earned in all directions.
Lastly, for anyone that gets fed up with them and swears 'never again' in a huffy voice - there are new customers delivered every year. All those 18 year olds leaving school and wanting to travel? Each year another batch for FR!
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NZ
Age: 55
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's all about expectations, and Michael O'Leary is clearly looking to change expectations. People are currently horrifed at the idea of standing on an hour-long flight. But there are an awful lot of train commuters who stand for that long every day, sometimes standing right by the first class section with empty seats. So they have a choice, but have chosen to save money and stand.
Paxing All Over The World
Perfectly put Pohutu. Trains and coaches and buses do it all the time. Ever travelled on a train in the third world?!
Yes, it is true that an emergency stop during departure or landing is more severe than in a coach BUT trains travel everyday at 150mph / 260kph. If they come off the rails, or have an emergency stop, it can get bad for the pax and they legally have no seat belts at all.
Yes, it is true that an emergency stop during departure or landing is more severe than in a coach BUT trains travel everyday at 150mph / 260kph. If they come off the rails, or have an emergency stop, it can get bad for the pax and they legally have no seat belts at all.
I don't understand the need for RYR to continously move the goal posts. SOUTHWEST Airlines (USA), the pioneering LCC which RYR based it's original business model on, has made very very few changes to it's original concept and it's still a winner today.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London
Age: 62
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PAXboy
It's a sign of the times that the person who'd happily accept a flight on a downmarket airline will have a newer and flashier mobile telephone than you.
To be honest, if I took cheap flights, I'd prefer to be stacked up like cordwood. as long as I had my own compartment. It's a sleeper train, really.
For landing, you are superglued into place and given a bottle of solvent in case of emergency.
Unfortunately this will not work as everyone will simply sniff the solvent and end up as incapable as Business Class on QF LHR-SYD
SO
It's a sign of the times that the person who'd happily accept a flight on a downmarket airline will have a newer and flashier mobile telephone than you.
To be honest, if I took cheap flights, I'd prefer to be stacked up like cordwood. as long as I had my own compartment. It's a sleeper train, really.
For landing, you are superglued into place and given a bottle of solvent in case of emergency.
Unfortunately this will not work as everyone will simply sniff the solvent and end up as incapable as Business Class on QF LHR-SYD
SO
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,082
Received 2,942 Likes
on
1,253 Posts
There is a film you know of them testing the passenger loading facility for the new seats
see
YouTube - Thunderbird 2
see
YouTube - Thunderbird 2
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You've got to be kidding!
Now I'm not sure if this has been though of but what about the standing seats vs overhead lockers? As most of you know only short people can stand properly underneath the overhead locker (myself included)
And what about the proper "Brace positions" that people are supposed to adopt in the event of emergency landing?
Also in addition, I know these seats may be there for the shorter flights but suppose a passenger with circulation problems purchased one of these seats and had to stand for a period of time that may not seem long by you and me. What if she chooses to sue?
All too many variables here by my opinion but I guess they're trying it on
And what about the proper "Brace positions" that people are supposed to adopt in the event of emergency landing?
Also in addition, I know these seats may be there for the shorter flights but suppose a passenger with circulation problems purchased one of these seats and had to stand for a period of time that may not seem long by you and me. What if she chooses to sue?
All too many variables here by my opinion but I guess they're trying it on