BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

[One Outsider]

When our relationship with our employer starts to seriously disrupt those that have bought a ticket to fly with us, then I'm afraid it does become their business and they have every right to ask questions.

If people have a problem with the product they have purchased they should take it up with the company via the relevant department. Their business is with the company not individuals or groups of employees.

The terms and conditions of employment is a matter between employer and employee only, it is nobody else's business. If anybody believe that the relationship between employer and employees affect the product offered, then either don't buy the product or address any grievances to the company. It is not ok to personalize it by singling out individuals or groups.

As I said, luckily it seems to be only the same handful of people who believes that purchasing a product from a company gives them certain rights and entitlements that extend beyond the product purchased, including the personal affairs of employees.

That is just not on.

[Diplome]

Whaddaya mean after? That was when I started!

Jetset Lady:

I've had a few of those myself. Never a good thing

Betty girl:

Thank you. As I stated earlier, I believe that most of the individuals that post here absolutely enjoy the exchange with staff....especially when questions arise.

I can assure you that there are many posters here who have a greater knowledge regarding this dispute, communications, court testimony, etc., than some Cabin Crew. Its been a fun and interesting mental exercise, though an unfortunate and serious undertaking for many.

[Diplome]

As I said, luckily it seems to be only the same handful of people who believes that purchasing a product from a company gives them certain rights and entitlements that extend beyond the product purchased, including the personal affairs of employees.

A small group here, granted, but you would have to be in denial or avoiding every newspaper article, travel forum, business forum, etc., to think that there isn't a quite sizeable number of individuals commenting on the BA/BASSA issue.

Both BA and BASSA have made specific requests for the public and/or stockholders support. That support isn't obtained without questions.

The fact that you have commented in both this thread and on the Cabin Crew thread reveals your own interest in the subject.

[Snas]

The terms and conditions of employment is a matter between employer and employee only, it is nobody else's business.

Err, until the employee stands in the street waving a banner about stating (often incorrectly) those T's & C's. or indeed screams at me from a passing bus, or takes out a full page advert in the paper, or produces a video with a poor CC member explaining her woes, or causes my annual holiday to be cancelled, or.....

I think privacy in this issue went a log time back....

[TightSlot]

Just so that we're all clear - This is an open thread, and for the reasons well-covered by Diplome, Snas and others, it is available to all for comment.

In so being, it serves a useful function for all sides in the dispute, and indeed, will do so in the aftermath.

BTW - Always wondered - what is a 'math' for an aftermath to come after?

[PAXboy]

Desk Jockey

Not true that a flight cannot make a profit unless it is full. I pick that up because the issue of posters making things up was raised. I'd hazard a guess that full flights don't always make a profit either. It's a lot more complex than that.

Indeed it is, it also depends to a large degree if the financial instructions of the Board or CEO is for a route to make a profit across:

• A year
• A quarter
• A month
• The combined round trip
• Every single rotation
• etcetera

Some routes may not break even all year but are sufficient to keep the route as a feeder or because the peak seasonal covers the shortfall of other seasons. Complicated it certainly is.

[Papillon]

Indeed so, Paxboy. And even then it can be more complex, because some routes that are largely point to point, almost pure corporate travel are known to generate significant profits even on 40% load factors if properly inventory managed, much to the surprise of operations who'd promptly can the service during disruption in favour of busier routes and then wonder why they got shouted at by Commercial...

[Betty girl]

PAXboy

Of course it is complicated. That is exactly why it is so unfair of people to completely blame BA cabin crew for all it's woes. Which is what has been going on on here alot recently.

We are aparently to blame for the service BA provide on it's long range flights!!!

We are aparently the reason why BA pulled out of Melbourne!!!!!

We seem to all have been condemed as the devil itself whether we went on strike or not.

I mentioned flights being full because that was relevant to the route that was being discussed Melbourne. It was cancelled as a result of the low loads partly.

Yes lots of flights can be shown to make a loss. Most of the Eurofleet network makes a loss on paper and this is because profit is worked out on kilometer flown. So therefore for someone flying from Amsterdam to Los Angeles the bulk of the ticket profit goes to the longhaul sector, but of course without the shorthaul sector feeding into longhaul, longhaul could not make that profit. So yes it is very complicated and not all black and white as some of you seem to think.

I am sorry if I seem a bit touchy but I do realise some of you are unhappy that some of my collegues went on strike but that does not make every thing wrong with the airline industry the fault of BA cabin crew.

Incidentaly as Easyjet was used as an example by one poster of perfect rostering. Easyjet cabin crew may not get early report payments ect. but they take home more that BA eurofleet main crew do.

[Papillon]

Bettygirl

I mentioned flights being full because that was relevant to the route that was being discussed Melbourne. It was cancelled as a result of the low loads partly.

Double drops very rarely make commercial sense. They're usually done for prestige reasons more than anything, to expand a network. It isn't hard to work out why - effectively you're reducing the available inventory on the primary route for one thing, as well as the whole matter of utilisation and direct operating cost.

[Diplome]

Betty Girl:

We seem to all have been condemed as the devil itself whether we went on strike or not.

I would strongly disagree with this statement. Most posters here have repeatedly thanked the non-striking Cabin Crew and mosts post differentiate between the two.

You are entitled to your opinion but expect healthy debate when someone disagrees with a stance. So far the only thing I see you as having an issue with is statements made regarding rostering issues.

That's only one subject out of the many that have come up for discussion here.

[LD12986]

London-Australia is a difficult route to operate if your hub is at one end of the route, rather than at one of the stopovers enroute.

Cultural/historical links aside, it is telling that BA and Virgin are the only European airlines to operate to Australia.

I think if BA had the choice it would pull out of Australia altogether and transfer passengers to Qantas at BKK/SIN, but WW has said that BA needs to serve SYD if it is to be seen as a global airline.

Virgin launching adding HKG-SYD to its HKG route made no sense commercially and seemed to have been done for reasons of vanity more than anything else. They cannabilised their loads on LHR-HKG as a consequence.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by jetset lady

On the downside, we are tired. Very tired. And sickly too. The majority of crew are somewhere in the sickness policy process although I have managed to get out of it for now. We never get time to re-adjust.

I note that none of the interested parties made much comment on these words. I am sure maximising stock value is far more important to some, than the words contained above. I am sure more sweating of assets will increase dividend payouts.

[LD12986]

I note that none of the interested parties made much comment on these words. I am sure maximising stock value is far more important to some, than the words contained above. I am sure more sweating of assets will increase dividend payouts.

BA cabin crew's working hours in the air and duty hours are within the limits set by the EU.

If there are problems with the current rostering system at LGW, then that begs the question why their BASSA representatives have not raised it with management and offered constructive proposals to improve it.

Answers on a postcard...

And do you know how many times in the past ten years BA shareholders have actually received a dividend?

[R Knee]

Mod TS (pologies TCreep)

You'm beain't from round ere then, but then you're probably a bit younger too.

aftermath:
a second crop or growth of grass in the same season,
after the first harvest or mowing

[15th century. < math 'mowing' < Old English mæþ]

[Papillon]

I note that none of the interested parties made much comment on these words. I am sure maximising stock value is far more important to some, than the words contained above. I am sure more sweating of assets will increase dividend payouts.

Try working for yourself, Litebulbs. No sick pay, no chance of a paid day off, nothing. If I'm confined to my bed, I get not a penny from anyone. I don't recall ever getting a shred of sympathy from anyone about that - my choice, my downside. Everyone chooses what they do, and there are good points and bad points. I can point to things like final salary pension schemes if you would like me to?

[Litebulbs]

I am sure BA would be receptive when the current plan, as it appears to get, at best, to the LGW model.

[Mariner9]

I note that none of the interested parties made much comment on these words. I am sure maximising stock value is far more important to some, than the words contained above.

The thrust of Jetset Lady's excellent post that you have selectively quoted Litebulbs was that current scheduling (presumably agreed/decided by BASSA) is a mess; it was far better in her previous airline where the union had co-operated with management to agree a sensible system.

I would imagine most contributors to this thread would wish that a similar relationship between BA & a sensible CC union existed.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by Papillon

Everyone chooses what they do, and there are good points and bad points.

Working so much that it make you sick is just a bad point? I'm sure kids up chimneys is a cost effective job too?

[Diplome]

R Knee:

Well done (addendum: By the way, where did you find the source. I looked for it after the query but first search came up rather blank)

Mariner9:

was that current scheduling (presumably agreed/decided by BASSA) is a mess; it was far better in her previous airline where the union had co-operated with management to agree a sensible system.

I would imagine most contributors to this thread would wish that a similar relationship between BA & a sensible CC union existed.

Exactly...and "sensible" being the optimum.

Perhaps Cabin Crew will be address their representation after this dispute is behind them. It would be a great step forward for Cabin Crew and BA.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by Mariner9

The thrust of Jetset Lady's excellent post that you have selectively quoted Litebulbs

And most of you ignored. I am reasonably sure that the duty of care lays at the employers door.