BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
Paxing All Over The World
Ancient Observer
An interesting question and I'll bite. One problem being that a very large part of the appreciation of CC work is subjective, but all of the duties and their attitude CAN be observed and noted. Before any percentage could be established, the mgmt would first have to benchmark their business and staff against their competitors.
This would involve mystery shopping and REAL customer surveys - the kind that cost real money by asking clients and ex clients a comprehensive evaluation of their views - face to face. You would have to ask at least 1% of your premium pax each month. Further, I would suggest that this whole process takes place across two years with the benchmarks established in a clear way, with each carrier set out with their pros and cons. You would have to have the same (reliable, honest and fair) people use the identical criteria to mystery shop you and the others. In other words, horribly expensive.
Then you can asses where your airline is on the global scale (not where you want it to be or where the advertising says it is) and THEN you can start to asses crews and staff for each route. You have to see if there are trends for certain routes to be less good than others and track the poor performers across the network. Here you have the problem that staff are spread across a myriad of routes. If they always plied the same route and NEVER changed, then it would be easier to monitor them fairly.
So all that is never going to happen because the whole process would take too long, would cost hideous amounts of money and show no positive return for anything up to two years. Even then, you would have enormous difficulty in using the action of dismissing a few staff to convince your clients that you are now better. Bear in mind also that, a considerable number of your pax don't think it such a problem and the numbers of staff that are poor performers are pretty small. So you are facing sledgehammer and nut.
There will be other ways of tackling the problem but the above is the 'high end' way but it is already far too late in the game for this to be done - even if the board were willing and the money available. If it is of interest, I was involved in a project to benchmark a major UK supplier of telecommunications services against their three competitors in 1998. It was a VERY difficult process to shape and, eventually, it collapsed without producing conclusive results in either direction. The scale of information required and it's fair gathering/assessment proved unworkable - because you never knew who was telling the truth, amongst other problems. The service being provided then was a fairly straight forward mechanical service - without the problems of human service delivery such as you need at the front door of, and in, the premium cabins.
How about starting a new fleet of staff with different contracts and slowly roll that out across the network as the old leave by natural causes? Then the only problem is that you will have the old and new staff groups managed by the same management. So ... what % of mgmt should you fire each year ...?
In the IT sector, many of the big names (Cisco, Oracle and others) fire their worst 10% of performers each and every year. GE also fire their worst 10% every year.
A "normal" rate of firing of poor performers where I have worked is circa 5%.
Should BA seek to improve its customer experience by firing the weaker CSDs, and if it should, what % should be the annual target??
A "normal" rate of firing of poor performers where I have worked is circa 5%.
Should BA seek to improve its customer experience by firing the weaker CSDs, and if it should, what % should be the annual target??
This would involve mystery shopping and REAL customer surveys - the kind that cost real money by asking clients and ex clients a comprehensive evaluation of their views - face to face. You would have to ask at least 1% of your premium pax each month. Further, I would suggest that this whole process takes place across two years with the benchmarks established in a clear way, with each carrier set out with their pros and cons. You would have to have the same (reliable, honest and fair) people use the identical criteria to mystery shop you and the others. In other words, horribly expensive.
Then you can asses where your airline is on the global scale (not where you want it to be or where the advertising says it is) and THEN you can start to asses crews and staff for each route. You have to see if there are trends for certain routes to be less good than others and track the poor performers across the network. Here you have the problem that staff are spread across a myriad of routes. If they always plied the same route and NEVER changed, then it would be easier to monitor them fairly.
So all that is never going to happen because the whole process would take too long, would cost hideous amounts of money and show no positive return for anything up to two years. Even then, you would have enormous difficulty in using the action of dismissing a few staff to convince your clients that you are now better. Bear in mind also that, a considerable number of your pax don't think it such a problem and the numbers of staff that are poor performers are pretty small. So you are facing sledgehammer and nut.
There will be other ways of tackling the problem but the above is the 'high end' way but it is already far too late in the game for this to be done - even if the board were willing and the money available. If it is of interest, I was involved in a project to benchmark a major UK supplier of telecommunications services against their three competitors in 1998. It was a VERY difficult process to shape and, eventually, it collapsed without producing conclusive results in either direction. The scale of information required and it's fair gathering/assessment proved unworkable - because you never knew who was telling the truth, amongst other problems. The service being provided then was a fairly straight forward mechanical service - without the problems of human service delivery such as you need at the front door of, and in, the premium cabins.
How about starting a new fleet of staff with different contracts and slowly roll that out across the network as the old leave by natural causes? Then the only problem is that you will have the old and new staff groups managed by the same management. So ... what % of mgmt should you fire each year ...?
Really ?
In the IT sector, many of the big names (Cisco, Oracle and others) fire their worst 10% of performers each and every year. GE also fire their worst 10% every year.
A "normal" rate of firing of poor performers where I have worked is circa 5%.
- are you sure ? I have worked for numerous big high-tech companies and none had this policy. OK, the current lot make you set objectives and could mark you as a poor performer but it takes a couple of years plus a failed 'improvement plan' before anything might even start to happen.
A "normal" rate of firing of poor performers where I have worked is circa 5%.
- are you sure ? I have worked for numerous big high-tech companies and none had this policy. OK, the current lot make you set objectives and could mark you as a poor performer but it takes a couple of years plus a failed 'improvement plan' before anything might even start to happen.
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Just noticed on the BA website that some flights from the US going into Scotland tomorrow morning. So 2 nights for CC in Scotland?
Our diversion agreement is difficult to explain but even if a long-range trip diverts it can continue if crew get enough crew rest and are within their agreements without getting 2 local nights.
I don't know if the crew will stay with the aircraft in Scotland or bussed down to LHR.
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3 Days of Lost Operations
Given BA have lost at least 3 full days of operations and will have been financially damaged by the recent strikes, would anyone wish to hazard a guess whether the cabin crew current offer on the table will be pulled by the company and replaced with plans for compulsory redundancies and layoffs?
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Much amateur theorising going on about the "Great Eruption" ... I would suggest everyone takes a different stance and assumes that NO Civil Air Transport operations will take place in the UK, or the majority of Northern Europe, for the next few days.
Various Threads on various Boards are full of people talking about one flight here or there: that is irrelevant, and confuses everyone. The fact is that virtually NOTHING is going to fly until either the weather changes [to shift the plume] or the eruption stops.
I'm notionally flying to UK on Tue and then to USA on Wed. I'm not even bothering to get the cases down from the attic - it ain't gonna happen.
Stop dreaming, folks.
Various Threads on various Boards are full of people talking about one flight here or there: that is irrelevant, and confuses everyone. The fact is that virtually NOTHING is going to fly until either the weather changes [to shift the plume] or the eruption stops.
I'm notionally flying to UK on Tue and then to USA on Wed. I'm not even bothering to get the cases down from the attic - it ain't gonna happen.
Stop dreaming, folks.
Last edited by MPN11; 17th Apr 2010 at 17:56.
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All gone very quiet. No posts for over 24 hours. Not even about ST for the retired 
.
Very coincidental that within an hour of A Lurker being banned for a foul post on the CC forum that Watersidewonker returns after an extended absence.
Regards
.Very coincidental that within an hour of A Lurker being banned for a foul post on the CC forum that Watersidewonker returns after an extended absence.
Regards
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Unfortunately, you only have to read the hateful blood-spitting of the likes of "A Lurker", and the bland, juvenile snivelling of "Watersidewonker" to realise that these people are mentally incapable of understanding their situation, let alone looking at how they can improve it.
If and when the airspace ban is lifted, and BA need all hands on deck to get their passengers home or away, I would certainly not put it past the chumps that lead BASSA to try and call another strike. Why do you think Simpson is so obviously distancing himself from these idiots (and I include Charlie McChuckles in that)?
And the beauty of it from the board's point of view is that such a knee jerk action would, without a doubt, create such hostility from the British public that it would give BA carte blanche to do whatever is required to excise the BASSA tumour once and for all.
Go on BASSA, I dare you. Let's see you play the last card you've got in your hand. (Hint: It's a two and it's not a trump).
If and when the airspace ban is lifted, and BA need all hands on deck to get their passengers home or away, I would certainly not put it past the chumps that lead BASSA to try and call another strike. Why do you think Simpson is so obviously distancing himself from these idiots (and I include Charlie McChuckles in that)?
And the beauty of it from the board's point of view is that such a knee jerk action would, without a doubt, create such hostility from the British public that it would give BA carte blanche to do whatever is required to excise the BASSA tumour once and for all.
Go on BASSA, I dare you. Let's see you play the last card you've got in your hand. (Hint: It's a two and it's not a trump).
Paxing All Over The World
ChicoG
They already have carte blanche to do whatever is required within the law of the land.
give BA carte blanche to do whatever is required
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They already have carte blanche to do whatever is required within the law of the land.
regards
I too agree that it is such a shame that industrial action is taken to such lengths. Strike action is the most unproductive and juvenile strategy which acts against the best interest of the company involved. Inteligent employees act with the best interest of their employer in mind.
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Mystery Shoppers and Crew Management
PAXboy
Your excellent post sums up the dilemma of managing cabin crew from a distance.
"You can't manage what you can't measure" was drummed in to me on my management courses. However, introducing spurious KPI 'benchmarks' by which to measure the performance of crew, (or teachers or nurses for that matter) so that they can be 'managed' is never going to be effective.
I much preferred the advice to "catch them doing it right". As you say, very few of the thousands of BA crew are poor performers yet most of the management systems in place are to catch the tiny poor-performing minority rather than identify and reward the much larger "exceeded expectations" to "outstandingly brilliant" majority.
Cabin crew are in the service industry where empathy and compassion are pre-requisites. So many of the posts by crew on here refer to 'not trusting management' and 'management not caring' about crew, highly charged, emotional responses to the way they are managed. We are not talking about dockers or miners or, dare I say it, even pilots here.
Mystery shoppers catching them doing it wrong (or right) will always feel like the 'spy in the sky' and do little to engender trust between crew and managers.
What happens inside a silver tube 7 miles above the earth needs to be managed on the day by a skillful, trained, empathetic crew manager, not by a desk-bound suit with a PC in an office back at world headquarters a week later.
As I have posted before, BA has some brilliant on-board crew managers but 'some' isn't enough.
......the numbers of staff that are poor performers are pretty small. So you are facing sledgehammer and nut.
"You can't manage what you can't measure" was drummed in to me on my management courses. However, introducing spurious KPI 'benchmarks' by which to measure the performance of crew, (or teachers or nurses for that matter) so that they can be 'managed' is never going to be effective.
I much preferred the advice to "catch them doing it right". As you say, very few of the thousands of BA crew are poor performers yet most of the management systems in place are to catch the tiny poor-performing minority rather than identify and reward the much larger "exceeded expectations" to "outstandingly brilliant" majority.
Cabin crew are in the service industry where empathy and compassion are pre-requisites. So many of the posts by crew on here refer to 'not trusting management' and 'management not caring' about crew, highly charged, emotional responses to the way they are managed. We are not talking about dockers or miners or, dare I say it, even pilots here.
Mystery shoppers catching them doing it wrong (or right) will always feel like the 'spy in the sky' and do little to engender trust between crew and managers.
What happens inside a silver tube 7 miles above the earth needs to be managed on the day by a skillful, trained, empathetic crew manager, not by a desk-bound suit with a PC in an office back at world headquarters a week later.
As I have posted before, BA has some brilliant on-board crew managers but 'some' isn't enough.
Something to do during the ash fall........
Thanks, all for the various replies. I'll have a go at commenting on your inputs.
Landroger.
Maybe your Amersham/Chalfont boss-man (I can't remember his name) managed to keep this particular bit of GE-ness out of GE Healthcare. I'm not sure the 10% number would work in your sector.
I worked for a while in AZ, and I saw only a limited application of dismissal thru' lack of delivery/capability. AZ were certainly not as rigorous as Cisco, but they did try. In the other thread on BA CC it has been made clear that NO CSDs have been fired for 20 years or more,, no matter how awful they are.
Paxboy.
I was thinking of something much simpler, and covering BA only, with no benchmarking of competitors. Also, I would not do it route by route due to the movement of CC. I would do it CSD by CSD. The ones that came in low after early "surveys" and a 3 month improvement programme, where they did not improve, would be fired. Make it very personal. It's the only way some of these dinosaurs will change, and even then, some would prefer to be fired rather than "work" for "customers".
Mr Optimistic
Yup, I'm sure about Cisco, Oracle and GE. You are right about the "improvement plan" but that could be done within 6 months. The process would be bad set of scores - improvement plan for 3 months - another bad set of scores - dismissed. Sounds harsh, but BA need this sort of action for the bad ones. See also response to Paddy
Paddy
You are, of course, spot on with the "catch someone doing something good" ideas. However, BA need both to do that - which they do try to do - AND they need to sack the worst of their CSDs and other CC. Their service is just too variable and too hit and miss. (As F3G and others on here keep pointing out).
Baggersup.
Pigs and Flying come to mind. Bassa are not capable of thinking, let alone the strategic thinking that your idea would require.
As an aside, it is nice and quiet down here near Lhr. I can hear the birds, not the planes. The worst planes - the 744s with RR engines, are by far the noisiest, so it is very nice that they aren't flying.
Landroger.
Maybe your Amersham/Chalfont boss-man (I can't remember his name) managed to keep this particular bit of GE-ness out of GE Healthcare. I'm not sure the 10% number would work in your sector.
I worked for a while in AZ, and I saw only a limited application of dismissal thru' lack of delivery/capability. AZ were certainly not as rigorous as Cisco, but they did try. In the other thread on BA CC it has been made clear that NO CSDs have been fired for 20 years or more,, no matter how awful they are.
Paxboy.
I was thinking of something much simpler, and covering BA only, with no benchmarking of competitors. Also, I would not do it route by route due to the movement of CC. I would do it CSD by CSD. The ones that came in low after early "surveys" and a 3 month improvement programme, where they did not improve, would be fired. Make it very personal. It's the only way some of these dinosaurs will change, and even then, some would prefer to be fired rather than "work" for "customers".
Mr Optimistic
Yup, I'm sure about Cisco, Oracle and GE. You are right about the "improvement plan" but that could be done within 6 months. The process would be bad set of scores - improvement plan for 3 months - another bad set of scores - dismissed. Sounds harsh, but BA need this sort of action for the bad ones. See also response to Paddy
Paddy
You are, of course, spot on with the "catch someone doing something good" ideas. However, BA need both to do that - which they do try to do - AND they need to sack the worst of their CSDs and other CC. Their service is just too variable and too hit and miss. (As F3G and others on here keep pointing out).
Baggersup.
Pigs and Flying come to mind. Bassa are not capable of thinking, let alone the strategic thinking that your idea would require.
As an aside, it is nice and quiet down here near Lhr. I can hear the birds, not the planes. The worst planes - the 744s with RR engines, are by far the noisiest, so it is very nice that they aren't flying.
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There seem to be plenty of aircraft flying through the ash....
RadarVirtuel.com with a Volcano Ashes Layer
Just heard Gulf Air are taking off for London (with pax) in an hour or so.
RadarVirtuel.com with a Volcano Ashes Layer
Just heard Gulf Air are taking off for London (with pax) in an hour or so.
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Aviation workers must not pay for volcano chaos with their jobs, says Unite
All good ideas....
Asking your friends at BASSA not to strike would be a good suggestion also....
Suspend the use casual and/or agency labour.
Make wider use of paid leave and the negotiated banking of hours.
Examine whether outstanding holiday entitlement can be brought forward.
Maintain the current rosters for all employees but use the available time for training and employee development that has fallen short during the recession.
Make wider use of paid leave and the negotiated banking of hours.
Examine whether outstanding holiday entitlement can be brought forward.
Maintain the current rosters for all employees but use the available time for training and employee development that has fallen short during the recession.
Asking your friends at BASSA not to strike would be a good suggestion also....
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Private Eye
'Blackleg' writes in this week's Private Eye
Then, just to rub salt into the wound, in the classifieds section under EYE NEED
As the union Unite squares up against BA hard man Willie Walsh on behalf of the persecuted trolley-dollies, joint general-secretary Derek Simpson is keeping a low profile.
Perhaps it is felt that a man who was re-elected by less than 6% of the union's apathetic membership last year hardly has the right sort of mandate to take on BA's bosses.
Unite's preferred faces for the TV cameras have been Tony Woodley, Simpson's fellow joint general-secretary or Len McCluskey, the assistant gen-sec. McCluskey is tipped to become Unite's first solo gen-sec after Simpson stands down at the end of this year, followed by Woodley in December 2011.
Helping ease McCluskey's passage into the top job is the fact that - despite protestations to the contrary - Simpson and Woodley loathe one another. Nothing has changed since 2008, when Unison general-secretary Dave Prentis asked Simpson at the TUC conference what he would do if he saw Tony Woodley staggering down the road. Simpson replied: "Reload"
Unite? If only they would, say the BA workers
Perhaps it is felt that a man who was re-elected by less than 6% of the union's apathetic membership last year hardly has the right sort of mandate to take on BA's bosses.
Unite's preferred faces for the TV cameras have been Tony Woodley, Simpson's fellow joint general-secretary or Len McCluskey, the assistant gen-sec. McCluskey is tipped to become Unite's first solo gen-sec after Simpson stands down at the end of this year, followed by Woodley in December 2011.
Helping ease McCluskey's passage into the top job is the fact that - despite protestations to the contrary - Simpson and Woodley loathe one another. Nothing has changed since 2008, when Unison general-secretary Dave Prentis asked Simpson at the TUC conference what he would do if he saw Tony Woodley staggering down the road. Simpson replied: "Reload"
Unite? If only they would, say the BA workers
Basingstoke common man standing at General Election to expose Tory sleaze in North Hants. Campaign funds required. Contributions from Belize ex-pats and BA cabin crew welcome.
Last edited by PaddyMiguel; 20th Apr 2010 at 14:32. Reason: Added full quote